As police begin random searches of bags in New York's trains and buses tomorrow, perhaps it's best you leave your stuff at home. The sanctity and security of our apartments (and other dwellings) grows -- sadly -- even more precious in these difficult times.

I don't know. While I understand the fear of impinging upon civil liberties, I also don't want to get blown up. Not that searches will necessarily prevent that, but at least it makes me feel better that (finally), we seem to be taking seriously the possibility of something happening on the subways. I saw a police officer on my subway platform for the first time ever today.

Fiona, why do random searches make you feel the NYPD is taking threat seriously, making us better protected? It makes me feel like they are wasting resources, and taking another testing little bite out of our civil rights in the process.

I really do wonder.

What alternative would you propose?

Cops can search my bags every day coming and going, and I wouldn't feel like my civil liberties are being taken away in the least.

I do agree it seems a little futile given the number of commuters versus number of cops (and sadly reactionary to the London events), but I find the stepped up presence reassuring.

Like Patrick said, if anyone has a better solution, they should certainly offer it. My civil liberties are certainly impinged upon when I fly, but I wouldn't have less security (maybe more efficient security, but not less). I'd actually like more--if they actually did security checks on the cargo IN the plane, I'd feel a heck of a lot better about things.

Sure, the police are being reactionary, but I think that's (unfortunately) human nature.

But that's just my opinion. Everyone is entitled to his or her own.

Think about it like this...

At the leeds station, 4 men walked in with backpacks filled to the brim. Had even one of them been searched, it might have isolated the damage.

If if if...

Also the NYC transit system has been in the works since the tokyo bombings in 95. There was recently a deal in the works to turn security over to the military. (however it was cited as costing too much) Would you rather deal with NYPD or GI-Joe? (proper gi-joe..none of this national guard unloaded machine guns facade)

There was also a huge bump up in security during the failed 99 (I think) NYC transit bombings (alot of explosives uncovered)

Also up till london I thought the idea of machine guns in subways were a bit silly. However they shot down one of the bombers before he could plant the explosives.

If you don't want your bags to be searched,
there are alternatives to mass transit.

Grab a cab,
drive,
rent a car

This is one intrusion in to civil liberties I am willing to accept. Once you've been in a situation, your view changes drastically.

Welcome to the world.

m o m inc.--

Well said.

As long as I am able to:
pick the bag
buy the bag
fill the bag
carry the bag...
I don't give a damn about anybody searching the bag.

I have bigger civil liberty concerns about what's going on in places like the Supreme Court than on a subway platform, where the *possibility* of a search is a possibility that perhaps will keep me slightly safer on my daily commute. Maybe naive in thinking, but oh well.

As far as NYPD versus GI-Joe.. which ones are hotter?! ;)

mom inc.
Minor corrections:
1. Terrorists were born and grew up in the northen city of Leeds (about 300 miles north of London) but the bombings were in London
2. The US army's role was to design and construct beefed up tunnels etc in case of bomb blasts

Having said that, I too am willing to allow my bags to be searched any time any place. OK so I may be in a rush like everyone this morning who did not help the woman with a baby and toddler and stroller get up the stairs but I did so I guess I'm ok with the greater good thing.

Do you know much about the explosives in the subway in 99 thing apart from the guys found in Park Slope plotting the bombing?
Around that time I was living in Park Slope and my wife was very late home from work. Turns out she was on the F train and it was a couple of stops away from the 7th ave stop in PS when it stopped at the station, doors opened and a whole bunch of swat type police boarded, ordered a man in an overcoat (which was appropriate attire for the season) sitting diagonally opposite to my wife to put his hands up or spread or something. They opened up his coat with guns pointed at him exposing what my wife described as tons of bombs and wires. They cuffed him, took him off the train, doors closed and the train moved on with everyone sitting in stunned silence. We checked websites and news that evening and next morning but there was no mention made of this ever. This was not the same time as the Park Slope bomb factory so cannot have been related to that particular arrest which was well publicised.

So whaddya know about that mom inc?

Holy cow, Jamie pup. And here I thought I had a good story about security because my mother was once hijacked to Cuba by someone (supposedly, but probably not really) wired to explode. ;)

corrections...corrected

1. Yes they grew up etc in Leeds however on that day they all initially departed from Leeds as well. Hence forth the one time I can say for sure (without having to look it up) that all 4 men were together wearing backpacks.

Correction: they did travel from leeds that day, however boarded at Luton...but the initial point remains unphased

2. From what I've heard...The US.Army was also suppose construct a monitoring system and to monitor said system. (infrared, night vision..all the toys that see through clothes and such)at the tune of 250M usd (I'm not sure if this is a start up cost or reoccurring)

Give me a date and I can make a call.

Also none of this "mom inc" stuff...
I'm not a mom...I'm not even a father, I don't run an organization of mom's (although when i was little i did help my mother with madd) so no more of the "mom inc"

Anyone have any good sites for purchasing wood frames online? I'm looking to get standard sized frames for things like posters and such (with mattes preferably) that I'd mount myself, but wanted to know if you guys had any good URLs for cheap frames I can purchase from. Thanks!

Actually..I bought a few pieces a while ago and was about to get the framed when I asked the artist.

He actually recommended target (off the record).

So I ventured in (incredible rooftop parking at the queens mall facility) and found a few really great frames that fit in perfectly for a fraction of the price.

This is great if you have prestreched pieces.

Did anyone go to the Adler warehouse sale? Thinking about going today, but nmot sure if it's worth it.

Looks like Patrick went. Guess it's probably picked clean by now, unless they're restocking.

About the bag searches in NYC...and I know I am sooooo late getting back to this thread... ANYWAY someone cleverly suggested we all carry gay porn around. Then the terrorists can't win, right?

I think perhaps we are all going to learn more about illegal search and seizure and other Fun with Constitution 101 issues before this is over. Or even more likely, it's just a PR move on the part of the NYPD.

If so, it doesn't make ME feel good that so many of my fellow NYers are buying this feel good gesture. We can expect small drug possession charges to rise dramatically, but other than that I don't think we the people are protected by this practice.

What? Who carries drugs on them on the way to the subway? I mean they have dogs.

You deserve to get hit with a fine/community service if your that dumb.

Also I don;t see it as a violation of privacy if you have the option to opt out.
You can refuse, head above ground and grab a cab.

ummm in light of recent news...I go back to my original philosophy on how it's silly the fuzz carry fully automatic machine guns in the subway.

>

yeah right. let them eat cake.

we can however agree that automatic weapons on the subway are a bad idea,

Um - Isn't this supposed to be about decorating and design?
That said, I hope nobody else had the experience I did at the Jonathan Adler sale. I got there 15 minutes after it opened the first day, waited 1 hour, 45 minutes to get to the front of the line and didn't buy a thing. (And it was smokin' HOT out.) The selection was pretty good, but they didn't have really any of the white pottery left by the time I got in, if they had it in the first place, and that's what I was really after.

Sharon--
I for one apologoze for contributing to the non-designness of this thread. It just struck a chord. But yes, now back to our regularly scheduled program! :)

jamie pup -
That's a harrowing tale of your wife's adventure on the train. Good thing she didn't flinch or something and get shot at, herself! Yipes!

Meanwhile, about bag searches ... I think that when cops check bags, etc., I think they are probably given a pretty specific mission for that day. This is probably naive, but I think that if your cocaine LOOKS like gun powder, then they'll confiscate it because it looks like gun powder -- not because it looks like cocaine, if they're really supposed to be looking for explosives.

I hate to sound like Patrick (the other one)'s "amen corner" again, and maybe it's because I know that the only slightly embarassing thing that my bag is stuffed with is as-yet-still-un-read recent back-issues of the Times House & Home section... I'm not that concerned with bag searches. By the way, this Kenneth Cole messenger bag probably DOES look proportionately a little large for me, so I kind of think that if I were them, I'd be stopping me, just in case.

But BASICALLY, I'm more concerned with the other rights that are taken away than with that. Still, I feel safer here in NYC than anywhere in the world, for all the other reasons there are.

After eight bombs in the London subway, which killed over 50 people, conflating random bag searches in the subway with a "loss of civil rights" is, sorry, a very large oversimplification and not a very well-constructed or logical argument.

Fiona is right - you get searched when you take a plane, because there is the threat of violence. Should we believe that there is *not* a threat of violence on the NYC subway? Are your rights to carry a dime bag so much more important that the rights of everyone to feel at least a modicum of safety? Doesn't that seem a bit - well, selfish?

And also - yes, there are bad cops. But could we at least admit there are good cops as well? Or is that giving up too much to "the enemy"?

I do wish there were a better solution. Better meaning more efficient, less invasive...I mean, come on. There has to be some type of remote detection technology out there to help narrow the field from random searches among millions of commuters by a handful of cops. I don't mind the necessary steps being taken, but is it snobby to think that it's awfully archaic?