You know what I love about being a parent? I love the instant camaraderie you feel with other parents. We all have different lives, different kids, different parenting styles, but there are so many universal things we all can relate to, both the struggles and the satisfactions of parenting. And we learn so much from each other even if we just learn that we're in the same boat.
You know what I hate about being a parent? How easily we can turn on each other. How judgmental and sanctimonious we can be about the one area of our lives where every parent feels self-doubt. After all, don't we all live in glass houses?
On Ohdeedoh, we don't all have to agree or even be nicey-nice. We do have to be respectful of each other. That's what a community is. By nature I'm not a confrontational person and am never eager to step into the fray. But as the Managing Editor, I'm your host and it's my job to make everyone feel welcome and comfortable at the dinner party, especially if they brought a dish to pass. I'm not here to censor your ideas or your opinions, but if they violate our comment policy I will enforce it. I invite you to read our comment policy in full, but here are the basic tenets:
Our four rules for comments:1. Be honest and fair, yet gracious.
2. No ad hominem attacks or gratuitous meanness.
3. Stay on topic.
4. Add value, don't take it away.
Still having a knee-jerk desire to leave a jerky comment? Stop and ask yourself these four questions:
1. Would you say this to someone face to face?
The internet offers varying degrees of anonymity often leading to a disconnect between how we conduct ourselves in the world and how we conduct ourselves online. It's somehow easier to be snarky, petty and just plain mean from behind our computer screens than it is when speaking with someone face to face. "Would I say this to your face?" is a good question to start with when you leave a comment because karma will hold you accountable even if no one else does.
2. Will you have commenter's remorse?
Did you know that you can't delete your own comments here? I frequently get emails from readers who wrote a comment they later regret. Most tell me they were having a bad day or a bad moment and ask if I can delete the comment for them, which I'm happy to do. Or you can apologize or retract your comment within the comments section.
3. How would you feel if someone said this about your home, your project or your parenting? (i.e. Are you the world's best parent with the world's safest and most beautiful home?)
When you share something on a blog you do, in a sense, have to be prepared for some amount of criticism. As in life, not everyone is going to love everything you do and, by golly, they'll tell you. Without being too hokey, I think following the Golden Rule and treating others how you would want to be treated isn't too much to ask.
4. Is this how you would want your children to act?
I sometimes wonder if parents are often so mean to each other online because we censor ourselves around our children and seek an outlet where we can dump our negativity. We (try to) stop swearing, we eat more vegetables and we generally try to be our best selves in front of our children. They look up to us and learn from our example. So before you unleash a jerky comment online, ask yourself if you'd be okay saying it aloud to your child. If they asked you why you said something mean, how would you answer?
Go forth and inspire, inform and delight each other within our pages, just do so with respect, kindness and good manners - like your mama taught you.
(Image by Flickr member seier+seier licensed for use under Creative Commons)
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So true
Hear, hear! Snark is just sadness stuck in a comment box.
Hi Carrie! First I want to thank you so much for this article! I agree with EVERYTHING you say and these are such great tidbits of fantastic words to live by and advice. Second, I really REALLY love your writing style. As a writer myself, I often struggle with how to put my thoughts into words that are going to capture the attention of my readers and stir engaging conversation! You just have it ~ such a style and grace to your writing which I aspire to! Bravo <3
Joanna
xoxo
I think it's number one. The Internet is largely anonymous, not face to face, and many posters don't feel they will receive any real consequences from their comments.
I love this. Way to be!
This reminds me of a post yesterday that I saw with the washer and dryer plus bleach in the baby's room. I didn't leave a message because by the time I saw it there were over 60 comments, every other 2 minutes someone had posted mostly negative things about it. I agree that not all parents have the same common sense, but, it is true just like it is with a celebrity, posting your pictures anywhere online is leaving you open to some criticism.
There are ways to communicate our differences, but we must be respectful and sensitive to others feelings, but there are some things that sometimes we see that makes us feel like are you serious? Is this a joke? like I read yesterday on many comments on that laundry/nursery post, but I guess that's why the post is not there anymore.
Bravo. Thanks for this post. I am always disappointed when I read an highly opinionated jerky remark. I hope those who are tempted will heed your advice and think twice.
This also makes me think of all the "Ugh, another Keep Calm and Carry On poster?" comments on the main site. I just think of how hurtful it would be if those were comments on my house. It would be a real loss if these negative posters discouraged people from having their homes featured on AT. I love the house tours! Without them, we'd all be looking at photos of unattainable designer rooms!
Thanks for the post! #4 is a good thing to keep in mind (and is typically the only thing that keeps me from swearing at other drivers with my kids in the car!).
Nuff said. Thank you!
It's about time! I've never seen so many hateful comments in one place. I hope this post can turn things around!
I agree with being courteous of others, but honesty is the best policy. I hope AT is not going to start censoring things for fear of peoples feelings being hurt. If you can not handle criticism don't submit stuff to be posted. With that said, I do think that some of the comments on the "laundry room" post had been a little harsh... but I can see why fellow parents would be concerned. I mean, it really was not the safest idea to be showcasing as a sleeping space for a child.
I agree with the guidelines above, but I also think Ohdeedoh needs to use more editorial discretion.
(1) You don't have to post every entry. If something seems unwise, indiscreet or unsafe, don't post it. I think small and clever are great, but I think Ohdeedoh's regular focus on 'tiny is so awesome - you can get tinier and more clever' provides a normalizing context for some choices that are maybe not so great.
(2) Step in sooner if something seems to be getting snarky.
I have left very few comments on internet boards because there always seems to be someone who can't resist being rude, vulgar judgmental etc. you'd think it wouldn't hurt so much since it's not in person but it's amazing how personally I take it. I literally feel burned and not eager tofeel that way again.
Your suggestions are really great we do not always have to agree but at least we can be kind.
This is all true, and why I have refrained from commenting on many of the featured smaller cooler rooms...
I would like to say, though, that cribs are made with bars for a reason. The reason is air flow. Putting a baby in a corner/ closet/ nook/ whatever scares me because you are basically negating the crib bars. Our baby is in an 80 square foot room, but none of the edges of her crib are up against a wall (it is placed diagonally in the corner). It means we don't have room to comfortably put a rocker in there, which I would love to have, but knowing she is safer that way makes it worth it.
Thank you for this! I love AT, but frankly the snark and bad attitude of its audience is really off-putting. Most of the submissions here aren't from professionals and that's why they're great! It provides lots of inspiration for laypersons such as myself. Again, thanks!
well said, carrie. the golden rule is such a simple concept to embrace, and at the end of the day, it is ourselves we will see in the mirror.
Love this. Thanks :)
seriously, there are a lot of weirdo comments on here these days. it's design topics, we're not trying to solve world problems here, calm down.
I wish, as editor, you would have addressed the specific post yesterday instead of talking around it so vaguely today. Yes, there were many unkind comments on the post, I hope mine was not one of them. I tried to state how uncomfortable I felt about the room without being a jerk, but the thing is, if the parents didn't want the opinions of the Ohdeedoh community, then they shouldn't have submitted the pictures. I also think your editorial staff had to have anticipated, at least a little, how people would have reacted to the images, because I've seen pretty nasty comments on here when people just had artwork or shelves hanging over a crib and these parents had large bottles of bleach and detergent balanced over their child's crib. So, yes, we all need to be respectful of each other and sensitive in our comments when called for, but you cannot expect your (very safety conscious) community not to respond when you post pictures like those many of us reacted so strongly to yesterday.
I agree... and I LOVE that photo of the glass house!!
@jenmaselli said it all and said it well. I agree.
I really wish this post had been titled "4 Questions To Ask Yourself Before Leaving a Comment" rather than what it is actually called. I would guess that an overwhelming majority of your readers who do comment are trying to be constructive and not jerky.
thank you so much! parents submitting photos are looking for design criticism, not parenting advice :)
Excellent post. Well said.
@jenmaselli The post/contest entry you refer to was taken down at the urging of the entrant who very much wants to put this behind her which is why I did not address the comments in that post specifically. And while that post was a catalyst to writing this one today I wanted to address this as a general issue because this type of comment pops up here regularly on all kinds of posts.
@siobahn You're right and I wish I had stepped in earlier. Unfortunately I was attending a tradeshow and offline much of the day.
I'd also like to make it clear that it was my decision alone to post that contest entry and I stand by it. Making safety judgments based on photographs of someone's home is a very slippery slope. (I'd love a show of hands of everyone whose bleach is under lock and key.) But more importantly, the problem isn't the opinions expressed it's how they were expressed. Many of those comments were truly beyond the pale.
Carrie
by the way, in addition to comments, readers are welcome to email me at ohdeedoh(at)apartmenttherapy(dot)com
I have to agree that many of the comments on the "laundry room" post were harsh, but I think all were out of genuine concern. If you make your image public, be prepared for the public's feedback. I also agree that it is the responsibility of AT to use editorial discretion.
Oh, come on. This must be about the laundry room/nursery post. I didn't actually comment on that but I really can't blame people for voicing their opinions about it, however harsh they seemed. I'm sure most people could see that is a complete accident waiting to happen and with a community of mostly parents, how could you not expect that reaction?
This is the internet, and comments can't and won't all be positive. Adults who willingly submit photos of their child's room to a design blog should anticipate all kinds of comments.. especially if their baby is sharing tiny, tiny bedroom with a washer and dryer. It really is a no brainer, and I really hope Ohdeedoh doesn't start censoring the comment section because I like the idea of having the freedom to critique how I please here. Although, yes, I agree.. some can take it too far. Again, it is the internet and it is always to be expected.
I think as a MOM whenever we see something that could potentially harm our kids or someone else's kids we try to voice our opinions and concerns, not because we want to be in someone else's business but because we are mothers and it is part of our instincts.
Like I said before there are better ways to do it then what I read yesterday, just because we might not have the same common sense as other parents, but as a community of readers we could help each other to maybe see what we are doing might be a little dangerous.
It has happened to me when I see a mom on the phone with a shopping cart at the parking lot and the cart starts to roll away, it makes me think "what is wrong with you?" or when they leave their kids in a hot car? We are almost obliged to say something for the safety of the kids, but what we have to remember is the way we say things.
But yes this is a design blog, and it is a design contest that it was entered to, but you cannot expect for readers to see something like that and just say "wow great idea and good use of extra space" when in our hearts we are worrying about their kids!
"A gentle answer deflects anger,
but harsh words make tempers flare."
beautifully said. and now i want to hug you.
I appreciate this post. Carrie is not suggesting that it become a censored site; rather that we consider what we say before we say it... and that we would be kind to each other and not make each other miserable & insecure. It's a pattern in the commenting, not only something that only pertains to the laundry room post. Well said Ohdeedoh.
Thank you.
I've noticed that these unnecessary comments are becoming more common around here. I hope you post something similar on AT. Some of those posters really need to chill out and learn some manners.
While I think this post is wonderful and certainly necessary, I have to also say that I think the ball was dropped yesterday. Posting a child's bedroom/laundry room with obvious safety hazards, I strongly feel, was a mistake. Ohdeedoh is different from other AT sites in that it is for CHILDREN, which means that posting should be done more responsibly. Readers of these sites often emulate what they see; and in this case, that could be extremely dangerous. These things should have been taken into account. The comments were a bit harsh, and I could not agree more that we all need to conduct ourselves respectfully and thoughtfully. However, the posts were made by parents who had genuine and justified safety concerns. No one was slamming a paint color or sofa placement choice, or the hanging of a "Keep Calm and Carry On" poster. (I have one too...) The comments were safety related. When children are involved, emotions almost always get involved. With all of that said, I do feel for the parents who entered their space, even if I don't agree with their choices. But the whole thing could have been avoided had the editors of this site used a little better judgment.
yay! thank you. i think the comments get really obnoxious, and i also appreciate the reminder to think before i speak because i can be pretty flippant at times, too.
I've gotta say...I am so sick of the safety comments. Unfortunately, damn near every submission gets ripped apart by the pretentious, and self appointed ohdeedoh safety patrol. In my opinion, such people are way overestimating their intelligence to assume that their comments are NEEDED to educate the contributing parents. I think we should give those who contribute the benefit of the doubt on safety issues. Issues with shelves, mirrors over beds? The parents have likely ensured the objects are well secured to the wall, are out of reach and do not live in an earthquake zone. Issues with bumper pads, pillows or toys? I would be willing to bet the parents staged the room for photographs only. Decorative objects that are unsafe or choking hazards? Childproofing is an evolving thing, it may be safe for the current size/mobility of the child. Objects could also be placed for staging/photos only. Also, pictures are typically taken to showcase the beauty of the room and ALL safety/childproofing may not be visible. Anyways, my point is... you can't judge someones parenting or the safety of their children from a couple photos.
Thanks for posting this, mr. managing editor. I've stopped checking out this site as much because of the comments I read. Hopefully, your words will go a long way.
here here AmandaSimpson
Amanda beat me to most of what I wanted to say, but I want to add a little anyway.
I entered my son's room into the contest. #9. Got some of these not so nice safety concern comments. I thought long and hard about submitting the room because I knew that people on the internet are not always so nice, and that "mommy blogs" tend to be even worse. Turns out I was right to hesitate. I have to say, I was honestly hurt by the accusation that I was endangering my child. Who wouldn't be?
I agree with Amanda on all of her points. You never know the full story.
I also think that some of these safety concerns should be balanced with a thought about how people live in other areas, and how we (dare I say it?) were raised and pretty much all of these people managed not to die horrible deaths involving fire and bleach. And, a separate room for a child is a luxury that many many people can't afford. Criticizing parents for putting children where they have space for them seems especially unfair.
And it's gratuitous, but I'll add while I have the floor-- operable window is for ventilation, not egress. And SPRINKLERS. And if there's a fire in there, because something has spontaneously combusted, I'm sure as hell going to storm through it and grab my son.
While I don't encourage or excuse snarky or jerky comments--"sadness in a comment box" is right--I agree with the principle behind voicing concerns about safety.
I didn't see the laundry room/nursery post so I don't know how accurate it is to say that the bleach was "balanced" over the crib, but bleach over a crib, or a dangling cord from blinds in the playroom, or an infant's crib stacked with decorative pillows or mounds of stuffed animals are worth mentioning. Sure, it could be staging, but why stage something to look dangerous? If my son's room's featured, I'm not going to whip out the kitchen knives and array them on his changing table. If a room shown here isn't safe, it is automatically worth mentioning; it's not an accusation that the decorator is stupid, but an opportunity to bring up something that's important.
The way I see it is this: if the kid sleeping in the laundry room got the bleach off the shelf and burned him/herself or drank it or discolored the sheets or did whatever we're worried the bleach would do, we'd feel pretty crappy for not having brought it up.
We just need to do it in a friendly way. And that's what I think this post was addressing.
I haven't read all these comments, and I didn't see the famous "laundry room" post yesterday.
I have to say, AT and Ohdeedoh are two of my all-time favorite sites. In fact, Ohdeedoh is my home page. BUT there have been significant periods of time when I stop reading all AT sites because the comments get mean and out of hand. Maybe a year ago? the comments began to be moderated better and I started coming back again.
Thank you for having this continuously on the forefront. I want a warm friendly community. Sure, constructive criticism is warranted. But PLEASE think of how it is phrased!!
ok now i just want to see the laundry nursery bleach post
Agree, agree, agree!! Please post something like this on all AT sites.
carrie, thanks for finally saying it (the comments on this site tend do to be so snarky and sad).
brenda and amanda, you are so right! thank you.
Love this post. Thank you for writing it.
@jsantonastaso - re windows for ventilation, not egress. I guess this is one of those differences depending on where people live.
I live in a city in the northeast - lots of old wooden building. Housefires are an issue. Where I live, code requires a window in all sleeping areas for emergency egress. It has to be sized so that a firefighter in full gear can get in and out, the idea being if I'm injured in the fire and can't get to my child, someone can. A small window that might suffice for ventilation won't do it for egress. And the egress isn't just for my child. It is also for the emergency personnel that might have to get out of the house if we have to be saved. The design of our homes is also a factor in their working health/safety. Where I live, this includes alternate egress in case of fire.
Hmmm, I was the first to post on the laundry room baby room. I have never posted anything negative on AT before and read it almost daily and often post. I don't think my comment was overly harsh so hope you are not referring to it. I did not see the others after it. I do have to say though that your thread calling the comments "jerky" thereby insulting some of your readers is enough for me to drop you from my fav blog list.
This is a great post.
AmandaSimpson took the words right out of my mouth.
I agree with most of this. I don't have a problem with comments about safety. I do have a problem with the inundation of "you don't really love kids if you don't breastfeed/co-sleep/attachment parent/cloth diaper, etc. And that's not me being defensive, as I do almost all of the things I mentioned. I recall a few weeks ago diapers.com had to shut down an entire comment thread after they posted a sale on formula. The Breastfeeding Brigade (again, I do it) got so nasty toward the formula feeding moms, the whole thread was erased. Let's be easy on each other, moms!
i've been "snarked" on many times and it upsets me more and more! people really are just ridiculous. especially on design and domestic sites. this is supposed to be FUN! i posted my son's party last year here and the first comment was telling me what a waste of time i had spent on it. it kinda broke my heart!!
For real. I don't even read comments on here most of the time. And AT and theKitchn can be even worse! People, lighten up. Be kind.
And I was the second to post, but I don't think my comment was snarky, but then again I wrote it so I'm a bit biased. I didn't have the opportunity to read any comments after mine because the post was removed. I try very hard not to be mean-spirited in my comments and usually only leave a comment when I feel I really want to leave one. The bottom line is that AT should have flagged this room as a safety risk, and not posted it. Just how I feel. The room was beautifully done otherwise. Although I know some parents can go crazy with all the safety nonsense, some things are glaring safety issues and the truth is, they need to be pointed out. This post should have just come right out and said what it wanted to say. When we did, we got shut down. I feel like a bad kid who got a slap on the hand.
I am so glad that this was finally addressed as I have noticed negative and downright rude comments for awhile. Would it be bad if I gave some examples? There was a nursery featured here that ws very eclectic and sweet (in my opinion). It was full of items that the baby's mother had collected and were meaningful. She had made it very special for her child. I was shocked and angry when I read countless comments saying that it looked like a thrift store or where is the baby's mattress etc. That is just plain mean. I am under the persuasion that if a person can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. People have absolutely attacked others for their design choices or if they percieved there was a health consern. I have stopped reading the comments on room tours for this reason. And it makes me resitant to submit a photo of one of mine because you never know what kind of horrible self righteous comments you will recieve. I hope thats not crossing the line. haha
:)
I will raise my hand as one of the snarky ones. This post is really too little, too late in my opinion. Carrie, you were asleep at the wheel yesterday for several reasons:
a) for allowing that room to be posted in the first place. It was clearly dangerous from any sane person's point of view.
b) not responding to the many and repeated calls from readers wondering if the entry was a prank, or serious and dangerous
c) allowing the comments to go as far as they did, including the entrant herself's, which was much nastier, ruder and more deranged than any of the ones that preceded it put together
d) pulling the entry without explanation
e) posting this hand-wringing drivel as a non-response.
APT has been around a long time and I generally consider it a professional site. Apparently all it takes is a trade show for it to lose its marbles completely. Sad.
lulukittie, wow. As a fan of Ohdeedoh and of Carrie's work, I have to say that your extraordinarily judgmental take on her job and performance is completely uncalled for, especially since you're commenting as a 3rd party completely uninvolved and uninformed on the amount of daily work, responsibilities, writing, editing, creating, and managing that it takes to make this site run (a site that is completely FREE to you). Save your hostile judgement for someone else.
I agree with most of what is been said here, and you can check my comment history to know it's true! (isn't that a neat AT feature?).
There's something I'd like to point out though: most people, and I'm including myself here, are not aware of how biased by the quality of the pictures they might be. Some submissions here have killer photography while others' have rather crappy quality, and I realize I have a really hard time telling a good room from a bad picture. Don't you?
I wrote a comment too in the "laundry room" post.
I never post anything negative here. A room I hate? Whatever. As a matter a fact the only reason I registered was to stick up for Etsy since I had such wonderful experiences there (I'm not a seller and know no sellers).
I wasn't snarky this post seemed like such a real safety issue. Plus the person bragged about spending student loan money on a washer dryer set. "lol". I honestly thought it may have been a joke.
One of my 2 year old's favorite thing to play was with an old empty lighter his grandfather gave him but I am not going to put 'em in birthday favor bags, take a picture of them and send them to Ohdeedoh.
julia2711 - I agree, sometimes the quality of pictures makes it hard to 'judge". And, reading someone's previous comments proves consistency.
Cambria, as a person with a background in journalism, writing, editing, and managing online communities, I feel well qualified to comment on Carrie's job performance or lack thereof. I was unaware that one had to be a card-carrying member of the Carrie fan club to post here. I'm removing ohdeedoh and the rest of the AT family of sites from my feed reader.
I think bottom line is that this is a (great) site for children design, NOT parenting style/know how. People don't submit posts to have their parenting/sanity/love for their child pulled apart by anonymous individuals who don't know them, their kids or their lives in the slightest. So if your comment is not about the design/aesthetic of a space just don't post it!!!
While I whole-heartedly agree that comments shouldn't be mean-spirited, I think it would be kind of boring if every comment which didn't chime in with "great job!" and "love it!" got deleted. Isn't it interesting to hear why people don't like things?
THANK you. I was thinking about submitting my own nursery for this contest, but I don't want to submit myself to the jerky comments I see so often on posts here.
I think people need to keep in mind that criticism should be CONSTRUCTIVE.
I think that criticism suggesting to a parent that they don't let their kid sleep in dangerous situations is about as constructive as it gets! Again, it should be phrased in a non-jerky way, but I disagree that input should only be design-related.
haha, the laundry room is still in my feed reader. I only glanced at it initially. I'm not sorry I didn't get to read the comments. If you think they're bad here, they're about ten times worse on the main AT site.
Is this why the comments on the "what you didn't need/couldn't live without" comments were edited? I posted something yesterday that I thought was pretty innocuous and it isn't there anymore. Did I offend with a question about why people didn't use cribs? I totally agree with what you are saying in this post but I hope that some of the non-hurtful, curious questions and comments aren't getting edited out. Where does the editing stop in public forums?
Wow. I wish I knew how to erase my above post. My comment was found, I just found it on a different post then I was looking for! However, I will stick with what I said just above but put it on other blogs that I have seen erase comments that seems very unoffensive. I'm glad AT isn't doing that! (oy. I need sleep)
Good Riddance Lulukittie.
After taking a look at your comment history, I think this blog is better off without you. I hope you put the extra time you gain from not reading the AT blogs towards some self reflection. You are too tightly wound up and if you carry yourself in real life the way you do here, then I feel real bad for those that have to share your life with you.
Honestly, I have to wonder about anybody who gets so heated over how someone else chooses to design the area around their child. Of course, I work in law enforcement and see criminals who have committed violent crimes against young children on a daily basis... so nothing on Ohdeedoh is really that big of a deal to me.
Some of these commentators just need to chill the eff out. I'm sure no one here believes some random stranger across the country really cares more about their child's safety than they do.. so why even go there?
wow i just read the rest of the comments on that post... very mean. that poor lady. i was worried i sounded mean too. i'm sorry if i did but man some people need to take a chill pill. i like the idea of people giving safety "suggestions" but not trying to cut down and hurt people either. i thought the post on the cook book by gwyneth paltrow and boy were people just nasty.
i meant to say the comments on the post about gwyneth's book were nasty
tact (tækt)
— n
1. a sense of what is fitting and considerate in dealing with others, so as to avoid giving offence or to win good will; discretion
2. skill or judgment in handling difficult or delicate situations; diplomacy
I'm just really glad the editors have finally put up a "flag this comment" feature. Thank you!
Oh please. The comments on the laundry room/bedroom weren't even that bad, it was basically just people who were genuinely concerned for that poor child's well-being. Besides, the mom's comments were far more snarky than anyone elses!
No wonder we're raising a generation of wusses...people are far too sensitive these days.
I also commented on the laundry room post yesterday. Everything I said in my comments about it being sad I would have said directly to the parents face. I think we all appreciate creative use of space and I am in awe of parents who make beautiful spaces out of closets and nooks off living rooms, but I have to say it again- I don't care what your size restrictions are putting a child in a laundry room is just wrong- especially when it sounded like there were other options.
My comment yesterday was maybe the third time I have commented on AT or Ohdeedoh. I only comment when I feel very strongly about something. This was one of those times and I stand by it.
atarichamp: it's not a matter of caring more for people's kids than they do. There are times when all of us make oversights and errors in judgment and there's nothing wrong with someone--a stranger, even, in an online comment thread--pointing it out in a kind way.
Wow I think I just got censored. I work in the saftey field for Ohdeedoh. I think the laundry room entry should never have been posted. It is in safe and stupid to put a kid in a laundry room.
delete my comment again.
Ok now I'm embarrased. Did not refresh my browser! Not censored- I think- maybe now (?). Sorry Ohdeedoh. I work for a safety organization but not for Ohdeedoh. I think it's UNSAFE for a child to be sleeping in a laundry room no matter how well designed. If that entry mom was my friend I would have said to her "I think this is a mistake- you are better off putting them in your bedroom or anywhere else but here."
I have checked my comment history- and I guess I have commented more that 3 times, but generally you can see my comments are usually positive and not snarky.
I agree that is mean to be negative and harsh when it comes to someone's personal design choices, but I felt this was not about design- this was a lack common sense.
I think one of the comments actually had the words "you will bury your child". That is over the line. That goes beyond expressing concern. People were using cruel language, and she was being bullied. I really wish I had come to her defense. Next time, I will.
I commented on that post yesterday, fairly early on. I never went back and read the comments that came after mine so I don't know how bad it got. Maybe mine was considered snarky. But, honestly, that room really offended me. And I would definitely have questioned it if I were face to face with them. I would expect and appreciate someone setting me right if I personally made such a judgment call. It is not okay with me to joke about contributing to the debt crisis in America. It is not okay with me to relegate your middle child to the laundry room so that his siblings can have their own rooms - I was a kid who loved a cozy nook (still do) but psychologically that arrangement would have affected even me. And it's not really okay to have major electrical appliances covering part of a child's crib. Not when you have other options.
I sincerely hope that the room doesn't actually exist, that the parents staged the whole thing for the sake of being clever and getting into the contest. I hope they really are pursuing higher education and setting THAT example for their kids. I hope, too, that the response was a wake-up call if it was a real room. People may have been too harsh or strong-worded but the sentiment was right. There was nothing to "lol" at. The whole situation needed rethinking and I hope that the comments yesterday were enough to get that kid out of the laundry room.
This is my first post and I have to agree with Amanda. I love At & ohdeedoh - love looking at how people decorate their homes - it's a great source for inspiration. But I HATE the snarky, mean, nasty comments. It's OK to not like a certain style or to make constructive criticism but why be nasty? And then when called on it, become defensive? Just as easily as you respond in a negative way, you can easily and naturally respond in a positive, empowering, uplifting way.
As for all the "child savers" out there--maybe see if you can find some kind of hobby besides causing problems for others and stop polluting this site with your negativity.
Make love not war! Peace, man!
I agree with the gist of this post (although I wish it were more direct in referring to the situation that prompted it), but can we distinguish between commenters who tactfully raised a concern and those predicting imminent death?
I commented on the implied laundry post with a compliment and what I thought was a reasonable concern. A number of other people did as well.
I agree that some of the comments were out of hand, and as they carried on, I cringed for the original submitter. At the same time, by virtue of this post, it feels like anyone and everyone who bothered to express a thought on the matter is getting smacked with the ruler by Ohdeedoh.
Some of the concerns were, in my opinion, highly reasonable. Some of them were expressed in a very cruel manner. It was a mixture, not one size fits all.
Safety comments are generally annoying, but that laundry room post was just so sad :(
If people saw how people live in other parts of the world maybe they wouldn't be so quick to judge whether the laundry room is safe or not. I highly recommend watching the film "Babies". It really makes Americans look like over-consuming, over-protective idiots. Not everyone has the luxury of having entire padded bedrooms devoted to their offspring.
P.S. Absolutely love the glass house and the post.
Do we have better things to do, like perhaps parenting, than be critical of how other people parent? Just saying.
I think there were other people besides here that were as concern!!
http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/53366468.aspx
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http://www.artessen.com/posts/244936/b45.html
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the second one is the pictures.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Boston%27s+Laundry+LairSmaller+Cooler+2011+Entry+%2325&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=9h6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=wArUTZfgEIb20gGoiKzmCw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1329&bih=706
This is a great post! These rules to comment by should be on every AT site. It applies to everyone, not just parents. I get so tired of reading the nasty comments time and time again on blogs. People are actually out there doing stuff and making cool things, only to get beat down by the bitter comments. It really makes a designer nervous about putting themselves out there. Hats off to Ohdeedoh for calling the nastiness out!
Is it Dear Abby (or Ann Landers or somebody?) that says that comments of all sorts should meet the criteria:
- Is it true?
- Is is helpful?
- Is it kind?
I wish I had seen the laundry room post!
It's actually crazy to be that people are finding fault with other people pointing out that having bleach and other laundry chemicals above a 2 year old's crib. It's one thing to be over critical and annoying, but come on!!!!! BLEACH! I'm sure that people who live in other parts of the world would agree. There is a reason that people are up in arms about this post. Not because we're "pretentious" or safety police, but because the child living in that ridiculous space in in harm's way. Pointing that out (albeit in a respectful way) doesn't make people "jerky".
Above comment....typos galore....sorry..what I meant to say was that it's crazy to me that people are finding fault with other people pointing out that having bleach and other laundry chemicals above a 2 year old's crib isn't beyond wrong....typing not my strong point..
The problem is that when you post pictures on the internet, in a DESIGN CONTEST, you are opening yourself to criticism. The laundry room was unsafe and bad design. If you want people to pat you on the back and tell you what a good job you did, post the pictures on your own blog.
I agree with a previous poster that honesty is the best policy. I hope AT doesn't censor people's opinions and comments.
It may be sanctimonious to point out that you're endangering your child. so what? If I see it, I'm calling you out. And just because you put some cute things on the wall in a room doesn't mean that it's a bad idea to room your child with a fire hazard/CO generator. It's like saying "the only place we had left over for our middle child's room was next to this pit of vipers, but look at the cute mural we painted!" I don't doubt that the person who posted this room is hurt and irritated by the public flogging that went on here, but that's how it feels when your bad choices are pointed out to you.
The sad thing is, event to this post some can't help but be sanctimonious and snarky...
The internet doesn't create rude people...it just gives them a forum they don;t have in everyday life to let it out without repercussion. There is no way around it, so i'm learning to simply not read the comments.
Thanks for posting this, though. Keep up the good work.
Rebecca_South...really?????
Wow. talk about missing the point.
One more thing...
STOP WITH THE SAFETY CONCERN AS EXCUSE FOR BEING NASTY.
You know what? You don't know these people, or this child. Are you really concerned? Really?
I didn't even see the post. But the constant refrain on this site is "safety"...and I'm fine with real, true concern, but often I find it's just an excuse to be critical.
Truth is, if those parents spend the night in the emergency room getting the child's stomach pumped, I doubt any of those of you who justify ugliness with "concern" will stay up all night worried about it.
So stop. Pay attention to your own families. here's an idea...spend less time criticizing people online, and more time supporting and encouraging your own kids.
Eyes on your own paper, people!
I didn't miss anyone's point Chenell. I have a different perspective.
I find it incredibly ironic that @lulukittie and so many others responded to a post about comment etiquette with a comment that ignored... etiquette. Esp. @lulukittie goes out of [her/his] way to insult the competence of a stranger because s/he doesn't agree with the opinions of the OP. Way to go, all. Bias-based incompetence is totally a thing. Thanks for your 'don't be a jerk' post, OP-- the comments at AT are often the thing that put me off the whole site.
Hi, I'm Pam, the mom behind Boston's Laundry Lair. I've stayed out of this comment thread thus far because I've been preparing my thoughts to share on my blog, since they are very, very long.
Thank you.
http://pamelapumpkinpie.blogspot.com/2011/05/let-it-ride.html
I haven't seen the nursery in question, but I did see the title of this post and clicked over to read immediately. I LOVE AT, but so many in the commenting community are truly insensitive/negative that I find myself staying away more than I would otherwise. It's not just here that I've seen it, but in almost every public forum. Why are we women so very hateful to each other? I agree that our society has become over-sensitive in many ways, but we can be honest without being blunt. Our rights to speak our minds should stop when they transgress someone else's right to be treated with respect. Just because we CAN say it doesn't mean we should. It takes a lot of guts and vulnerability to post something for public viewing and it's an enormous shame that those who do have to expect hurtful criticism. I'm speaking to myself too because I've said things on other forums thinking that I was just "being honest" and ended up hurting other people's feelings. Rather than defending ourselves in those situations, maybe we should become peacemakers and really work on seeing our comments from the other person's point of view.
Pam,
I just wanted to say that I read your blog and I am beyond impressed. You showed a TON of grace and class. I will tell you that I did comment on here twice stating how unsafe I thought the laundry chemical placement was. I still consider it something I would be uncomfortable with, but you clearly have your children's safety in the forefront of your mind. I really felt for you when you said the love of your children was questioned (I didn't see those comments) and I feel terrible that you had such a horrible experience. I don't believe my comments were "snarky", (I hope not, anyway) but I read in your blog that even the non-snarky comments hurt too, and for that, I apologize. Thank you for stating your side. It has made me think differently. I didn't think my words were hurtful, but apparently they were. And that was never my intention.
Dude, just read Pam's website and saw the photos linked up elsewhere. From everyone's comments here I was expecting to see a dank, dungeon-y basement type setting with bleach practically falling into the crib. Thankfully, that could not have been farther from the reality. Poor woman. If you were one of the concerned commenters, I highly recommend you check out her blog response linked above.
People need to get a grip. It's not like she was letting her baby suck on a bleach bottle!
But seriously, it's also probably best to not base your self-worth on internet comments. Why are we so shocked there are jerks out there? Don't be so sensitive.
The blog response didn't change the way I feel. People were mean and rude and bullied her, but I still think she may have made some bad choices. I mean, in most houses--it sounds like even in hers!--we lock up the cleansers, so it's worth voicing concerns when a toddler's bed is positioned below an open shelf of cleansers.
All of us are humans, and fallible, and should be okay with having our (possible) mistakes pointed out to us, but in a way that's not cruel. It's an online forum--that makes it our business.
I have seen a lot of "jerky" or "snarky" comments on this site but 95% of that thread was the reaction of honestly shocked and appalled parents. That's not "bullying" or using internet anonymity to be offensive. That's a sincere reaction to spectacularly bad judgment. And honestly, the timeliness of this post seems like Ohdeedoh is feeling a bit stung for even posting that room. I am all for civility and cutting moms out there slack. But the majority of the comments on that thread were not intended to blindly and ruthlessly hurt some poor mom for no reason at all.
Edited to add: I want to make it clear that I don't think the poster is a bad mom and it is clear from her post that she loves her children dearly. I just think that when you post pictures of your nursery with containers of bleach on a shelf above a crib, people are going to be alarmed and I don't think expressing that alarm is bullying.
@Nellymom: Perfectly said!!!!!
I will just quickly add to all the other comments, since I already commented once, that when discussing design for children you cannot neglect that safety needs to be part of it. I don't think that the majority of Ohdeedoh readers are crazy safety obsessed people. But the bottom line is that when people are looking at pics from a place like Ohdeedoh, they are looking for design inspiration. It's up to the editors to make sure those designs reflect beautiful AND safe safes.
Spaces. Ooops.
Thank you for saying this. I mean it. Thank you SO much. :) <3
Expressing that alarm is bullying when it's done over, and over, and over again. If you are concerned by something you see, but see that 10 people have already expressed those concerns, aren't you just commenting to get your punches in?
When you see this woman being mocked, insulted, torn apart, yet still choose to "express your concern" you are helping to gang up on her. Yes...you are bullying her.
The issue isn't if any of you felt her choice was unsafe. The issue is that you all felt the need to beat her down. The whole thing is very sad.
I shouldn't have said "you all". That was unfair.
I'm a long time reader, but I just registered to comment on this. I read the laundry room post. I think there were some people who went too far in their criticisms, implying that the parents don't care about or love their son. And commenters needed to be reminded of their manners, certainly. But it was an unsafe room. And even if it is a slippery slope to make safety judgements, you should explicitly address those safety concerns on posts about questionable rooms, and parents submitting rooms should provide that info. I don't think you can sit here and point your finger at the community when there was plainly a dereliction of editorial duty in publishing this post as-was. I think this situation has been mishandled at all levels.
Pam, I want to agree with Alilee and apologize if my comments were hurtful. I pro
Oops, posted before finishing by accident...anyway, My 2 year old climbed out of his crib and broke his arm which was what I was thinking about when I said "a determined toddler will find a way" with regard to the bleach bottles. I did read your blog and enjoyed seeing the pictures of your little guys. I hope you can put this experience behind you and that Odeedoh won't forever leave a terrible taste in your mouth.
It's so sad that we have to be reminded how to behave like kind individuals. I don't understand why some feel entitled to share their concerns or perceptions so freely without an adept editing hand to weed out the cruelty. Seriously? You wanted to call child protective services on a family who houses their children, feeds and cares for them? Geesh, maybe AT/Ohdeedoh readers need to get out more and see the real world.
While we cannot control what other people say or how they say it, we can control how we respond: don't feed the trolls.
"Concern trolls" just use their "think of the childrens!!!!!" stuff as an excuse to say bitchy things.
I'm really tired of people on forums in general, and this one in particular, being so alarmist and thinking that they are showing off what better parents they are than the photo submitters. Really.
If there is something truly egregious, fine, one poster say it one time and then move on. MOVE ON. Saying it over and over just becomes a dogpile of nastiness.
OMG won't someone THINK OF THE CHILDREN
The responses to this post assure me that the boring and repetitive safety comments are here to stay. Perhaps a compromise? Let's all agree to one per post per safety concern. After all, if someone has already made the negative comment and you repeat it then you lose the "i was just trying to help" defense. They've been "helped" and now you're just tattling.