updated roof and currently remodeling a powder room...maybe I can refinance after this? will see...=)

The key thing here is that none of these investments will get you all your money back. So first and foremost they're for you, not for the sale. Don't do any of these remodels if you're planning on selling in the near future.

This seems to employ an unusual definition of ROI or Return On Investment. The normal calculation is (gain - cost) / cost. So if you can successfully add $40K to your selling price (gain), and your kitchen cost $30K, that's (40k - 30K)/30K or 1/3, i.e. a 33% ROI. Your NET gain is a third of what it cost you.

For a kitchen to generate 85% ROI in this scenario, it would have to have cost you only $4500 by my calcs (feel free to correct my math if it's wrong, as it often is in these autumn days of my life).

Frankly, that's the way *I* like to remodel, but I also either do most of the work myself, or luck out and find good people willing to work for $15/hr which is extremely rare; and I accumulate the materials over a long period of time when I find sales or bargains at pennies on the dollar, and fix up used appliances, etc.

So, given the high cost of labor especially if you go through Angie's list, and most people's inability or unwillingness to let their projects stretch out over years, or their lack of access to, for example, an Ikea As-Is (returns) department, I'd say this is unrealistic.

Under "kitchen," it says stick to 20% of your home's value for the remodel cost. To get a kitchen for $4,500 then, your house would have to be worth $22,500. I can't imagine what kind of calculation they're using for ROI. Whatever it is, it's misleading. Oh, I know - I bet they're saying don't let your new kitchen cost more than 15% of your house's value.

That, however, is NOT return on investment.

Sorry to nitpick. I just got up. Time for another cup of coffee.

@Shelter Life Alex: getting 100% return is usually impossible, however speeding up the sale is always better than letting a house sit on the market, and as the saying goes, "time is money!"

Good point kayak, there is more 'return' than just the money.

Also, if you DIY, you actually will make money.

Getting new windows this Friday (replacing 75-year-old wood ones. Beautiful, but completely inefficient). I expect to get about 70% of the $$ I put into them, but I'm hoping that the savings on my heating bill over the next few years makes up the difference.

Next is tackling the bathroom, which won't require any rerouting of plumbing or new major fixtures (tub or shower), so I'm hoping to update/upgrade the flooring, vanity, sink and add tile to the tub surround for under $2,000. I expect to get all of that back when I sell in a few years.

Yes, Annie-O's got the right of it.

Thanks for the interesting post and comments. I'm bookmarking this.

The problem with the update-your-kitchen-to-sell-your-house notion is that it has resulted in scads of houses with hideous "updated" kitchens that look like ripped directly from a display at Lowe's. I'm all for a kitchen that isn't dirty, broken, or otherwise blatantly falling apart, but I'd rather have an outdated kitchen I could redo myself, according to my own taste and within my own budget, then a brand-new kitchen that I don't even like built into the asking price of the house.

HereWeGo - yeah, I agree.

i totally agree with HereWeGo, too!

also, windows have a very low R-value. No matter if they are 80 years old or brand new and "efficient", the R value does not change significantly. An 80 year old wood window that is sealed properly may have a R-value of about 1 and a brand new window may have an R-value of 3!

it costs a lot of money to replace windows and if your's are old and beautiful, it's not worth doing it for energy efficiency! you are better off putting more insulation in your attic to get an R-value of 38 or insulating your walls.

i live in a historical neighborhood and they want people to repair their old, original windows. it uses a lot less energy and resources to fix them up than it does to manufacter new windows. also, less stuff goes to the landfill.

Most bath remodels can be done for under $20,000 if you don't live in the Bay Area. Count on a budget of at least $30,000 for modest quality items.

I will continue to repair my beautiful old windows until they are crumbling away! They're the best feature of my house and I would be crazy to replace them. And I totally agree with HereWeGo, an old outdated kitchen is better than a bland Home Depot kitchen any day, however a well done kitchen remodel can sell a house.

Agreeing with everything that was said above.

We bought a house where the kitchen was completely inefficient, totally unhealthy (we are talking insect invasion) and hideous. We bought the house anyway, because it gave us an edge to negociate, and with the money we didn't pay, we are currently remodeling our kitchen according to our taste. The price of the house was 10k euros less after our negociations, and the kitchen will cost us around 8K. That a good 2k we didn't spend, and it's much, much better that any fake ROI.

I hate it when people remodel their kitchen just to up their sale price. We're looking for a place right now, and every time I walk into a new kitchen I shudder.

On the other hand, we renovated our kitchen shortly after buying our home. We won't get much money back for it, but we LOVE it - it's no cookie cutter. And the next person to purchase this house will likely do so because our kitchen is so much nicer than what I've seen in other houses of similar size in the area. (I know 'niceness' of kitchen is a little subjective, but I've seen the other listings in our area... It's not pretty.)

After we purchased our house for $342,000, I completely remodeled kitchen, upper/lower cabinets with granite counter top, refrigerator in the wall, ceiling lights (both for kitchen and dining room, removed wall between dining room, re-do the stairways steps (build from scratch with red oak wood) that lead to our master bedroom and a couple cozy studio (formerly attic), upstairs floors re-do completed with laminated hardwood, custom re-do our bathroom (ceiling curtain and steps for jacuzzi bathtub), etc., etc... Our appraiser increased its value to $400,000, despite this awful currently house market nowadays.

I mean, "...removed wall between dining room and living room,..."

I also hate renovated kitchens. It's never how I would do it and the sellers are expecting extra money for having done it. I'd rather re-do it myself how I would like to do it.

p.s.
I did the most wood work, thanks to my friend who own a wood work business. I purchased various woods under his business discount. He did all the cutting and I did mostly putting together and setting up everywhere and the only person I paid for these work were myself with a patting on my back. Few more work left; floor base throughout the house (master bedroom, done), front yard and street landscaping, etc.

Agree with everyone. We bought our first house earlier this year and eliminated dozens of potential houses because some estate agent had told the owners that they needed to update the kitchen to sell, and they did, as fast and cheap as possible. We ended up buying a house with a new-ish kitchen that doesn't need redoing, but was clearly done to the owner's taste and high quality.

I heard (maybe from watching HGTV) that many kitchens in Europe are actually freestanding - when you move, you take the kitchen cabs with you. I wish that was the case here in the U.S. Kitchen cabinets are essentially pieces of furniture. Why would I want to be saddled with someone else's choice of my kitchen furnishings?

David, you wrote, "Why would I want to be saddled with someone else's choice of my kitchen furnishings?"
I designed my kitchen which are pretty interchangeable. Upper and lower cabinets aren't truly nailed (bad idea! Never nail anything to the wall except for hanging picture hooks). Uppers has inner base piece which you only need to screw into wall studs behind them. Lowers are screwed to the separated floor bases (which are also screwed to the real floor to ensure it's immobilized/sturdiness.

We bought a 1962 house 2.5 years ago and one of its main selling points was that it hadn't been updated - ever! It had good bones and was generally in solid shape (things like roof and furnace and such had obviously been updated through the years), but we get to update things exactly how we want them and didn't have to pay for "bad" renovations in the selling price. We saw countless, horrible, brand-new kitchens and bathrooms in our house search.

Also in agreement regarding the kitchens. What one person may love the other wouldn't, so spending a ton of money on a quick re-model just to sell is useless. Leave it alone. I'd love the freestanding kitchen idea here. I'm imagining the open shelving right now to match it.

Nice to read about the deck part. We put in a new deck this summer b/c the old was dangerous to stand on and we've practically lived on it all summer. It's completely changed the feeling of our house when looking out the backyard windows/entrances and added extra square footage to the house.

We just bought a 130-old house and have done a variety of updates, including an energy audit and insulation. Despite recommending MANY updates to make the house more energy efficient (most of which we took), the energy audit people said we should just stick with our original windows and the triple-track storms that were added at some point.

We have been refurbishinging the windows (stripping the paint and changing the sash cord). The updated windows are beautiful, do a fine job of keeping the heat in, and are likely to last another 100 years!

Wormy,
You wrote, "Also, if you DIY, you actually will make money."
Exactly, that's what I did and the investment will be worth it.

HereWego,
You wrote, "The problem with the update-your-kitchen-to-sell-your-house notion is that it has resulted in scads of houses with hideous "updated" kitchens that look like ripped directly from a display at Lowe's." I agree with you. Everything I did are custom and that made my kitchen look original, one of a kind and unique.

I'm with HereWeGo. If it ain't broke or utterly ugly, don't touch it. You can't please everybody, and maybe the buyer will have tastes opposite yours. Make sure everything works, make sure everything is clean, but leave the decoration to the buyer.

Besides, I can't stand what is in right now - shower stalls instead of bathtubs, that stupid "ultra-modern" look in kitchens, granite counters, bowl-type bathroom faucets, and my favorite, open plan living space. I don't want to be cooking in the living room or watching TV in the kitchen. If your house has any of these, not only will you not make a return on your renovation investment, I just won't buy the house.

I'd rather have an outdated house in good general shape with fairly recent roofing and windows. I'd rather spend less on the house and update it to my taste than buy something expensive that just isn't my type. I might not represent, but I don't think I am alone.

There is currently a large inventory of cute little Victorian bungalows in my area for sale that have all been hit by the same flipping company, and it just makes me sick to my stomach that they have been stripped of all character. Kitchen ripped out and replaced with Home Depot crap, also walls knocked out to make it "open." All the original window and moulding trims - gone. All the original transoms - gone. Original wood flooring - carpeted...it really does literally make me sick.

@ berkeley.loves.grey, THANK YOU for the comment about windows. Electric bills might go down with new windows, but they'd have also gone down by using caulk on the old ones! In hot climates where A/C is what costs, there's film that can be applied. Admittedly though, easier said than done.

There's just a huge amount of propaganda out there by the window companies. They also have the most obnoxious door-to-door salespeople and tactics.

I think the new windows are an improvement, but not enough of one to justify their cost. Also, in the States, they usually seal poorly, are of lesser quality, than some of the really heavy-duty ones I saw in Germany as long as 30 years ago.

I will jump on the save your old wood windows band wagon. There are zero windows made today that are as durable and as easily repaired as old wood windows. Most have already lasted 80 or 100 years, probably with a lot less maintenance than they deserved, and they are still in decent shape. Older wood was much denser than anything used today, and therefore much more impervious to water. With wood hardener and epoxy wood filler, and some new glazing putty, wood windows can be brought back to life. With a tight fitting storm window, original wood windows are as efficient as replacements and will last another 100 years, and will be cheaper. A replacement window will last 15 years, if you're lucky. Also, how will you repair an argon filled vinyl window if a baseball goes through it? You won't, you'll buy a new one. One of the must-haves on my house buying checklist was original wood windows. I wouldn't look at a house with replacement windows - I knew they would be too much of a headache in not too many years... Ok, off my soapbox now!

Oh and besides the amount of heat loss through glass pales in comparison to heat lost through infiltration - so if you want to really save money, get out your caulking gun!

Oh, I finally figured out what THEY mean by "Return On Investment." When they say 85%, they seem to mean you'll get 85% of what you put into it, am I right? Because if you don't do any of the work yourself, I think that's the way it generally goes - you can raise your selling price but not expect to recoup your full investment.

I don't think that's correct use of the term, but at least I think I know what they had in mind. It was too puzzling otherwise!

On windows: I replaced the windows in my 80 year old home and it really reduced the level of noise, dust, and humidity in my home. I gave the old windows to a man who was renovating a hundred year old barn.

I agree with posters about the cheap kitchen renovations to sell a house. Either do it right, or don't do it at all.

And please, please don't install cheap laminate flooring. What a turn off. Real wood = warm and welcoming. Laminate = cold, flat, hollow.

I should say that I replaced my old semi-rotted, loose windows with wooden windows that have tan aluminum exterior cladding that matches the original exterior paint color. They are gorgeous and well worth the expense. White plastic or vinyl windows are an eyesore.

If I can give you an honest opinion, I suggest you to buy a home that needs the least renovation unless your friends or relatives are contractors and you know you will be in good hands. Home remodeling is not as fun as what TV shows portray. Why? Because it's really really hard to find reliable contractors.

Finding reliable contractors is a job itself. It's very stressful. You are introduced to this "wild wild west" of construction business (the scene in LA is notoriously corrupt) that I will never want you to be trapped in it. There's a lot of impostors. You have to be careful. Even if you have big budget for reno, that doesn't mean money can buy you quality work. You still have to do your homework to find the right people for the job. Just read through reviews of contractors and remodeling companies online, you can see homeowners'sheer frustration.

First, we tried to get different quotes. Some quotes can be 2 to 3 times more than their competitors. It's insane, quite discouraging, and almost insulting. Did they not expect clients to have the brain cell to ask for quotes from different vendors? Some of them are very rude and tricky on the phone. It's really not like talking to customer service of retail stores where the staffers normally try to be as polite as possible and that's part of their training. Talking to tricky contractors becomes so predictable. They just want to see how dumb and vulnerable you are, so they can take you to the cleaner.

Many contractors insisted they can't give me a ballpark or "starting at" price just by looking at the measurement, material you choose, pictures, floor plan, and what the existing material are right now (Does it need demolition or not, how labor intensive it is to demo?) and they must come to my home for an estimate. I made a mistake at the early stage to let them come to my place to give me an estimate. Now I look back, it's quite dangerous to let strangers come to your home. What was I thinking? Thankfully, it's a gated community and my husband is always present during their visits.

In the end, those contractors who can't even give you a starting at price always end up to be very tricky and their quotes are usually higher. They come to your home to see how desperate you want it to be done, then they give you the price. The contractors who I hired could actually gave me a rough estimate based on all the info I provided and they asked for, then they came over to do their measurement and final walk through to make the price more precise, the final number is always very close to the rough estimate.

And please, always check their license number. Legit contractors are more than happy to let you verify their license number to distinguish themselves apart from losers who are not licensed.

Anyway, it's being two months now. The reno saga continues. We could have gotten a divorce because of it. I am thinking this is such an important story to tell, therefore, many homeowners out there can avoid my mistakes and won't suffer as much as I did.

We just bought a house with a 'renovated' kitchen. We bought it because of the huge yard and garage workshop. It's got granite counters, huge new appliances, and new tile floors. But they knocked out the bar, leaving an odd layout, no storage, a strange half wall, and a stove tucked into a corner. It also has the cheap oak cabinets that every rental has. I wish they'd left it alone so I could have done the work properly. Now I'm probably going to have to redo much of the renovation to make it functional.