Home Decorators Collection has a great knock-off of the Tolix chairs--unbelievable price, too. Wish I could fit them into our decor. Maybe my daughter will be interested...

THANK YOU. I am tired of the *other* sites acting all uppity about the real vs. knockoff debate. Usually, it's not a debate. If you're buying your Chanel bag on canal street, then you probably can't afford it at Saks. So no running around, designers, crying like babies about the revenue you're losing, because this school teacher cannot spend more than $40 on a bag, let alone $4000. As far as furniture, the line is even blurrier. The Tolix chair cost a cool $250 a pop, DWR claims they are made of galzanized steel and that "Slight surface abrasions and markings are characteristic of the material and part of its hardworking machine aesthetic." Sounds like crappy craftsmanship to me. The knockoff, is made of the same materials, yet $100 cheaper. See that sucker walking into DWR with a black Amex in hand? It ain't me, babe!

There's plenty of good design for handbags, home goods or anything that isn't designer, so why buy a fake unless you're trying to impress people?

Also, heard of intellectual property? I'm not boohooing for a company's lost profits, necessarily, but I do respect a designer's right to his own copyrighted designs... whether that designer is Karl Lagerfield, Mies van der Rohe, or a small-time designer form Quebec.

Also, just to note, the examples you linked to on your wishlist are likely reproductions, not "knock-off's" necessarily. So in other words, the materials and proportions will be all wrong, and what's the point of that?

And again, what's the point of buying fake furniture when there's plenty of well-designed, cheap stuff out there? I've said it about 100 times on AT: it's call pretense. To pretend to be something one/it is not.

And please, don't wear out the old "but I like the design!" line for why you buy a fake Chanel bag or a fake Barcelona chair. How totally coincidental that you happen to like the most expensive, elite designs.

As a product designer myself I have a really hard time justifying the sale and purchase of knock off products- especially of timeless designer furniture. But my pocketbook says another thing. I will forever be tempted but I fear the guilt of my purchase will never subside.
For now, I'll look but i will not touch.

I proudly own three Navy chairs and two Emeco-Stark bar stools. Yes, they are an investment. We had to save to afford them and collect them over time. I considered getting knock-offs and was tempted, but decided I could wait a while longer and save up. I don't want to be a snob, but I promise the real deal is worth striving for.

These authentic chairs are perfectly balanced, expertly built with perfect balance and proportion. They will be something that will retain their value to sell or to pass on to someone else. Now I can immediately tell the difference between the wannabes and the real.

Also, when you support Emeco, you're supporting a small American manufacturer. Since I also work at a small design-rlated business, that is important to me.

to me, you can't compare a chanel handbag to a piece of furniture. i agree that buying a fake chanel bag is just to impress people. i would never buy a fake handbag. but... on the other hand, i would buy replica furniture. i'm 25 and make NO money but i want my home to be something i think looks nice. people don't admit when their handbags are fake, but i know i would admit that i got a eames-esque set of chairs for $150. if they break or arent super sturdy, that is just what you get for $150. hopefully one day ill be able to afford the real thing, but as of now and in the near future i dont see that happening

Archdarling, I'm going to have to disagree.

While there are sure to be plenty of inexpensive well-designed items out there, most of the inexpensive brands just mimic the expensive styles of the season anyway. (See the Devil Wears Prada "Cerulean Blue" clip for reference.)

And whether they would like to admit it or not, the knockoff industry can actually be a benefit to a lot of designers. The fact is, people buying knockoffs simply cannot buy the real thing—there isn't lost revenue there because the money to pay full retail price was simply never there to begin with.

By purchasing the "fake," though, what that person is doing is perpetuating the brand and getting the name into the public. If it weren't for the knockoffs the average person would see (and therefore be reminded of a desire for) major designer names far less than we do now. I'm not saying it's an amazing system and it isn't strewn with ethical dilemmas, but you have to balance out "lost" profits with brand perpetuation too.

And I think it's kind of lame to put someone down for the "I like the design" argument. These brands are elite and expensive because some of the most talented designers in the world are behind them. So, yeah, people will like the design. That's kind of the point, isn't it?

love the COLOR & SHAPE of these chairs - so fun and funky!

Sorry, "replica" is the word I should've used, not "reproduction."

In our entitled culture, it's hard to admit that maybe you should not own that item, even if it is a great design. But no, we have to have everything, even if it's a cheap fake. I admire a lot of things which I can't afford, but I would never turn to a knock-off. I'd buy something more appropriate to my budget, my lifestyle, and is representitive of where I am in my life. It's a little jarring when you walk into somebody's apartment and it's filled with fake LC2 sofas and fake Eames chairs. It's actually pretty hilarious. The words that come to mind: "striver," "aspirational," "inauthentic," "pretender."

I have a lot of the mid-century iconic pieces in my house, and I saved to buy them, and I take good care of them. And what I can't afford, I don't buy. It's really just that simple. I'm not entitled enough to think that I deserve an approximation of a designer item if the real thing is out of my budget. That's really what it boils down to: a sense of entitlement. You believe you are entitled to live like someone who has a lot more money than you do -- hence the Chanel bags and the fake furniture. Good design... right. That's maybe 10% of the real motivation.

Please keep the reproduction website store recommendations coming! Does anyone know where to get a Glo Ball floor lamp reproduction (http://www.stardust.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/glo-ball-lamp.jpg) ?
I agree with SFW1983. The furniture in question holds its value not in its craftsmanship or materials, but in its design. How much better or worse in "craftsmanship" can an Eames molded plastic chair really get? This is not Art Nouveau mother of pearl inlay furniture we're talking about.

Never understood elitist snobby modernists who insist modernism be the purview of the rich, Archdarlings' comments being the perfect example of what I am speaking of.

Mmm. As a handbag designer buying a fake Chanel is not ok to me. You can tell that it is fake very easily without mentioning the number of hours we put into bags to later see a poorly made copy. I always wonder why people don't go for a cheaper but still cute bag.

I tend to feel the same about furniture except maybe when you want a specific color for your place and you can only find it in a replica piece. Maybe 1 chair in a fun color is ok but not more than that as it starts to look cheap and not stylish.

You can get those Navy chairs for $99 on eBay. I know I did. ;)

When you saturate the market with copies, you dilute the value of the originals. If that doesn't bother you, then continue to buy the fakes. My guess, however, is that if you were one of the fortunate few who could afford to invest in the originals, you'd be making a different argument.

articles like this (and POVs from AT editors) is why i rarely visit AT anymore.

i'll be spending time on chinadialogue.net instead.

My husband and I also saved to buy original designer pieces or scored a deal off CL/eBay. It took us years to acquire the items we have. I can spot the fakes easily since they are usually poorly crafted and slightly off. To me it kind of defeats the purpose of having the beautiful, perfect object.

I also don't think the handbag comparison is viable because in handbag designs, there is a lot of interesting, nice quality merchandise available in the mid-range prices.

And with furniture (in the US, at least. I think there's a lot more variety in Europe's market), from my experience, it's either: Ikea, mid-range like West Elm/CB2/Crate and Barrel, and then you have the unreachable designer and craftsman furniture. What's in between? Crap! A few weeks ago, I looked for stools on a lot of the big furniture websites. I looked through thousands of options, and found 1 or 2 which were merely not butt ugly.

For those complaining that there's no good design outside of the high-end and knockoffs, have you ever looked at antique or thrift shops? If you like the midcentury look, there's PLENTY of midcentury design to be had for pennies, and much of it is very beautiful. A generic Danish chair, of course, won't impress the design-ignorant quite as much as a fake Eames lounger.

There is a world outside of big box stores.

i really don't even want to get in to this debate but what is so wrong with striving for something that you cannot have. no matter how long i save i will never be able to own an eames lounger (at my current state of income). so why should I not try to get it a different way. that's why people are innovative. it's america for god sakes we can all do and buy whatever the hell we want. i for one will not lose sleep at night because my friend got a knock-off handbag or piece of furniture.

Yes, I agree with this point you are making, Archdarling. That is the alternative I've turned to for the stools. The downside is that it could take a long time to find something perfect. Unfortunately, even the non-designer mid century is not selling for pennies in NYC. Non designer Danish modern is just as wonderful to me as the fancy stuff.

So you buy fake stuff just to look like everyone else? What's the point of that?

Get out and look for the non-iconic. Develop your OWN style.

"that's why people are innovative. it's america for god sakes we can all do and buy whatever the hell we want."

...the irony is a bit astounding. too bad it's all made in china when blatant rip-offs, environmental devastation and worker abuse are the norm. better brush up on your mandarin with that attitude and bravado.

Am I the only one concerned about the real issue here? A fanny pack?

As an artist, I care about creator rights. But a good deal of this argument is becoming about the 'haves' vs. the 'have nots.' Do you all realize how ridiculous you sound? People do the best they can with what they have. Do we really dare judge them?

i want the eames rar like a mad person, but i really can't afford the authentic nor the licensed replica that goes for 350 euro in my country, i was tempted for the amazon knock-offs but decided not to buy, because every time i would see the chair, i wouldnt have the warm feeling of perfection, only the feeling that i got a fake one!!!! so it's just personal, i wouldn't preach someone for buying a knock-off, it's not my job to criticize, anybody's choices..... but i want a cheap rocker, i already have a thrift find(3euro) plastic seat-metal legs chair, kind of school like, i want to paint the whole of it off-white, and attach some runners, et voila a rocker chair......any ideas for cheap steam bend or cut rockers, everything i could find is around 40-60 dollars....would be delighted if i find something cheaper

i meant runners not rockers

I'm with you Defaultname. A fanny pack?

Matt Blatt only ships within Australia!!!! Why the terrible tease??????

Oh boy.

I am not a design obsessed person, and so i find the knock offs right for me. How? I see a neat chair in a restaurant or catalogue and buy it because it looks "neat". It is worth approximately $50 to me, but i might "splurge" and get it for $100. Was i aware that this was originally a super elite super important designer piece that retails for $1k? No. Do i care? No. Do i want the original for $1k just to be able to say i have some original of some designer i've never heard of anyway? No.

As far as i'm concerned, these are two very different markets. The people that truly value the originals and see that the knock offs are a little "off" and not "perfect" are the collectors, the people that truly appreciate and obsess over the fine details. To me, a chair is just a place to put my butt, and i want it to vaguely nice. I'm not going to "invest" in it, nor am i going to notice that its a little "off" from the original, which again, i've never heard of anyway.

I kind of feel like we've got two camps here: the people that play with the comic book action figures, and the people that keep them in their original wrappings to maintain their value, etc.

knockoffs are great!

if you really think about it, the companies that have been putting out the same item for more than a decade are still charging high, high prices, you KNOW that there is an imaginary price point that they are are putting out there. they want to retain the image of being high end, so they will always have a minimum price, even 30, 40, 50+ years of the exact same item being produced.

if they wanted to be affordable, they would. they don't want to be affordable, they want to retain the illusion of being just barely attainable, so they remain coveted.

beat them at their game and support the many companies who use the higher priced products as inspiration to produce items the real person can really afford.

i have a family, a house, bills to pay, my future to think of, all within a budget!

Well said MH330 and Nisiepie.

I'm willing to pay for what an item is really WORTH to me, not the name attached to it. I also have no problem buying store brand cheerios. :P

Best comments go to:

#1) Defaultname
#2) MH330
#) Lynell (first comment)

Congrats, guys!

I find it hilarious that a chair made of such widely and easily produced materials could cost so much. (I'm sure saying that will earn me an onslaught of "but the quality!" sorts of counter-comments.) Don't even get me started on the design snobs who tout green principles while surrounding their farmhouse table with 400 dollar mass produced plastic "designer" chairs.

What I find to be "inauthentic" is a house filled with the same mid century modern pieces seen in every other house tour. I also find it comical that you have paid such ridiculous sums of money for mass-produced furniture and subsequently presume to be authentic. For a hand crafted piece made by a skilled and talented craftsman? Absolutely. For a mass-produced, molded plastic chair? Ridiculous.

Vive la résistance!

Honestly, I don't find the knock offs any more offensive than all the particle board garbage furniture that is on the market. I'd rather people get authentic furniture that lasts a lifetime whether it's from a thrift store or DWR.

I purchased a Herman Miller LCW from Lexington Modern and am very pleased with it (even though it took months to ship because it was out of stock).

TO EACH HIS/HER OWN. People are free to choose whatever he/she wants to have.

Let the elitists buy their originals and swallow them with satisfaction.

Let the darn poor people enjoy whatever knockoff/replicas they can afford.

And don't get me started with intellectual properties, affordability, practicality chuvachoochoo. Get what you want within your means.

MH330 right on point. Most of us cannot name a designer every time we see an item. We like what it looks like, and look for that or a similar item to fit our budget.
For the record, I don't buy knockoff handbags, simply because the quality is crappy. I do, however, buy at second hand stores, and vintage stores leather items that probably are a copy of something else a designer did sometime, which I am not aware of (like my argentine leather Balenciaga-ish bag).
ARCHDARLING, I find it a little preposterous of you to talk about entitlement here. Do you suggest some of us "deserve" some items while other don't? No one is screaming i NEED THAT $6000 STOOL NoW! How is it entitlement to like the way an item looks, find that there are a zillion of them in different stores, and choose one? i for one did not even know that or who this Eames duderino is until recently. I suppose my Ikea chair that kinda looks like an Eames chair makes me (and hundreds of AT readers) a terrible wannabe undeserving of the delicate genius that is MCM.

Am I the only one who noticed that Emeco is selling a version of the Navy chair for less than the knock-off price?

I'd take this a step further and say that while you're "dreaming" of "the real thing" why not just live within your means, buy something that has a similar style and is made to last and be happy with that? Otherwise, hold out if you really truly want something that you can afford.

I see no shame in getting a mix of cheap, non-design sourced items for your home. The only thing I can't stand to see in a home is something that should be functional and isn't....like a broken chair or sofa. Otherwise, buy what you love, regardless of whether it's been inspired by a pricier item. If it's made well and you love it, all the better.

I love the knockoffs because to be honest I really have no intention of saving to buy the real thing. I can see doing that for a piece of art work but a chair is a necessity. I'm not going to sit on something I hate or nothing at all until I get the real thing years later ESPECIALLY if a knock off is available now. Pffft....to heck with that.

Its like my dutch oven. I would love to get the ones that have a starting price of $250 but Cooks Illustrated directed me to a "knock off" sold at Walmart made by Tramontina. I love it. Its great and when I get a couple hundred bucks to spend, I'm getting the rest of the line...from Tramontina not Le Creuset.

Given that Eames entire aim was to produce good design that could be mass-produced so that the masses would have access to good design, I find it hilariously ironic when I see people complaining about "cheap knock-offs" of Eames.

MH330 - nicely put.

I don't think anyone has the right to tell other people how to live. I bought a fake Noguchi coffee table because I liked the design. When I saw the real deal at DWR in person, I immediately was wowed by the real thing. Big difference. Although I could afford it, I would never pay retail for it. I waited until I saw it on CL and got it for half price.

No one "rocks" a fanny pack.

Designer or not.

You are headed for a What Not To Wear intervention. Please heed my warning before it is too late.

Andie, I just looked at your photo on the contributor page.

You have gorgeous eyes, hair and skin - in short you are way too cute to wear a fanny pack. Please at least consider lighting it on fire and carrying something - anything - else.

Even a boat tote from LL Bean would be better.

Thank GOD I don't hang out with pretentious buttheads who would think, "Gasp! That's a phony Eames rocker!" On another note, I do hate fake handbags... namely the ones with printed labels on them.

"Also, heard of intellectual property? I'm not boohooing for a company's lost profits, necessarily, but I do respect a designer's right to his own copyrighted designs."

With the exception of strictly decorative elements, "functional designs" like furniture are eligible for patent protection, not copyright. That lasts for 14 years. All of the examples pictured are long since out of patent protection.

Guys, the fanny pack is a faux chanel quilt design in lime green and is an OBVIOUS fake and is very tongue-in-cheek-chic. I love it. No apologies.

PS. Rocketscientist: you made my day. I make most of my every day bags myself ;)

what upsets me about artists is that true artists don't mind having their work knocked off, its actually a compliment so long as people know who it was knocked off from. If I created a chair and everyone in america had my chair, even if I only sold 10 of them, but they all knew i designed it, I would be pretty damn thrilled.

Certain furniture designs were inevitably destined for replication and imitation as soon as they were introduced, because they were innovations in design and manufacturing. Furniture manufacturers produced and sold their own versions of the molded plastic Eames chair decades ago, because people saw them in magazines and the movies and they wanted chairs like that, and it was easy to reproduce the style on a mass scale so that the mid-range retail customer could buy a set. That's how these designs became icons in the first place--the original created huge demand for that kind of chair and lots of people had chairs like that. Now the designer originals are collectors items and the licensed reproductions are luxury items, and their popularity with collectors and decorators has triggered a resurgence in demand for that kind of chair, as many people remember seeing that kind of chair in photographs of their grandmother's house or in hotel lobbies decades ago and are now seeing it used in a new way. The actual chair they remember may have itself been a "knockoff" of the now-iconic original design. When it comes to mass-produced furniture, it seems to me a bit silly to look down one's nose at people who own mass-produced versions of a mass-produced original. They aren't pretentious or inauthentic--they're actually doing exactly what customers were doing decades earlier when that chair was introduced. The idea that "maybe you just shouldn't have that chair" if you can't afford a licensed reproduction! Would anybody say "maybe you just shouldn't read that book" if you can't find a publisher's first edition?

Sorry, seem to have forgot a tag someplace.

@ANDIE WURSTER, sorry, but I can't even get behind (pun intended) the wearing of fanny packs for the irony.

In my humble opinion, as long as the knockoff/replica/unlicensed repro does NOT stay true to the original specifications (sizes/dimensions/materials/production techniques/etc) of the designer and does NOT carry the same exact product name/ID, it does not commit intellectual property theft. I'm sure the rightful owners of these property rights/patents have accumulated gazillions of $$ -- enough already to bury them in dignity 1000 times. Having said that...

GOOD DESIGN AND ALL ITS VARIATIONS AND MUTATIONS SHOULD BE THE PROPERTY OF MANKIND.

...so for those who can afford the "perfect specifications", go for it. Buy those Barcelona chairs in stainless steel and genuine white Spinneybeck leather.

...those who have little cash, you know what you can afford... go get them!

SC1904 and MH330 said it. I didn't know #3 was a knock off. I guess I'm ignorant But if I bought it out of ignorance then I'm not really trying to impress anyone am I. And as SC1904 said it, almost everything is an inspiration of something else so everything in a sense is a "knock off".

@archdarling- I find your pomposity beyond reproach. Why on earth "should you not own that item"?? Did you consider that perhaps some people like the odd expensive item not because it costs an exorbitant amount of money but rather that particular design resonates with them..and given that a lot of furniture is quite overpriced these days it is not a difficult predicament to find oneself in. Instead I choose to spend my money on important things such as my childs' education, and am not part of the elite echelons who regularly pay $4000 for a bar stool, doesn't mean that I must live a grey, bland existence. And when we the words strive and aspirational dirty words?? They simply mean trying to better yourself- something you should perhaps try sometime.

Composers stole motives from each other all the time; and it was a form of flattery. Some contemporary rappers do it as well--although most in poor taste, a few have gotten it right. For accessories, a knock-off purse is usually cheap, poor-quality and obviously fake. I'd rather save up for one I really, really love and use it for several years than waste my money on something that will fall apart after 6 months. Part of that is the American attitude (that I'm working to get away from) of NOW NOW NOW! We allow overseas companies to make cheap materials that don't last, and so we keep spending our money on things we don't really need, but keep replacing.

I find this discussion interesting. I'm not wealthy, but I feel like I wouldn't be satisfied with a direct knock-off of an iconic piece. I've looked at knock-off eames loungers but the quality and comfort are definitely lacking. I'm sure I'll be able to find a used/vintage one somewhere at some point.

That being said, I'll bet all designs are at least based on another design, but that's not really what's up for discussion here. Taking a design element from two or more separate pieces and combining them then creates a new design and can't really be called a copy.

I once bought a "barcelona bench" which was based on the furniture by Mies van der Roh. I wouldn't get rid of it just because it's not authentic, but I find I'm not in love with it at all and would more than happy to part with it if the situation was right... It doesn't exude the same beauty of the original designs, but it's "fine" for the space that it fills.

I totally agree that knock off furniture is a complete joke... It isn't necessarily that if you can't afford brand new designer name furniture you aren't entitled to have it, but have you ever heard of vintage?

I have two vintage eames chairs: a purple management chair from 1989 and a purple vinyl/black fiberglass shell chair from 1979, both found on Craigslist... They were a hell of a lot cheaper than ones brand new so we didn't break the bank. Also when you are buying knock offs, they are likely made in awful developing countries with shitty labor practices, so there is also the benefit to buying vintage or real designer. The price doesn't always reflect the design alone, usually the materials used and labor practices. I'd rather support something a decent paid American made, than one someone in a foreign country made making $1 or less an hour.

There is a surplus of cheap landfill being made when there are beautiful and affordable gems out there just waiting to be found and purchased. Likely you will find much more unique pieces, which says more about a person's taste than "I bought this on Overstock.com" In my opinion.

And don't get me wrong, It's not like I don't buy anything new or from ikea or something like that, but if you want high design like this, you might as well check around the vintage stuff a while before you just impulse buy the first thing you see online.

MH330 I'm with you. Not a design snob. I wouldn't pick out minutiae and look down my nose at someone just because they have a knock off piece of furniture. If I see something I like, and I can't afford it, I'll go out of my way to find something similar that I can afford-- not because I want people to think I have the real thing, but because I want the aesthetic of that thing in my space. If I can afford whichever one is the best quality then I'll go for it, if not then I'll go for what's in my budget.

That said, I once bought fake art, accidentally, in Mexico. I went to the exhibition and then found a piece later on from that exhibition and bought it, and only found out later it was a fake. I was gutted, especially as the original was only $100 more than my fake. My husband pointed out that the fakeness makes it a good story and that it's not like we bought it for the value anyway. But still. It's not the same. But then I don't see mass produced furniture as art, even if its incredibly beautiful. If it were handmade (like the stuff from Crofthouse in LA, which, by the way, bears a striking resemblance to Environment but I still bought it) then it'd be different. But the stuff at DWR isn't :).

KNOCK OFF'S ARE NOT GREAT!!! nisiepie (post 2/7/12)

I am a designer and one of my products retails for $460, out of that $230 goes to the retailer, which leaves me with $230. Out of my $230 I have to pay $150 material costs etc. So a product that retails for $460 I only get $80 for which then I get taxed on.

I am a designer who pays the true cost of getting products made, however I am competing with cheap under paid workers and cheap poor quality materials. There is no way to compete. It is up the customer to decide whether they want to support cheap throw away products (by the way there is no away, its still here it is just buried under ground to never decompose) or to support designers who actually care about people and the environment and who are trying to make products that last. I guess it comes back to whether the customer cares about people and the environment or not.

nisiepie Designers have families too who might if they are lucky have a house, they too have to pay bills, think of their future as well, all within budget!

Knockoffs are NOT great.