I do not, understand why, as a culture, we continue to celebrate overpopulation.

Where are the people screaming about "not Green!!" and "overindulgence" when THIS topic comes up?

And don't get me STARTED on why we seem to continually make the Rachel Zoes and Real Housewives into STARS.

Guilty pleasure, yeah, I get it. But what are we teaching our next generations about behavior by celebrating these bitchy, ill-mannered kinds of role models?

well said Patrick

I with you, Patrick.

I fail to see how having 7 children is socially and/or ecologically responsible. Fine, I know that having kids is your own choice, but I think that having large families is bloody selfish.. *even* if you can afford to raise them, it's contributing to over population (yes, even if your little corner of the world isn't over populated).

It's not like these people live on a homesteader farm in the 1800s...

oh patrick, if no one had a baby, you would not be here... wait a minute.

AND if you really want to raise 7 kids (or 19).. there's lots of kids out there who need to be adopted!

And if we all have seven, none of us will be here much longer.

Is it just me, or is that the biggest baby EVER?! Looks like an infant but the size of a three year old! Creepy!

Lighten up, people.

Well, we're not all having seven. Some (maybe many) aren't even having one. So let's not panic.

Remember, you can't have the ying without the yang.

So where is the line between an "appropriate" number of children and an "ecologically responsible" number of children? If you have two children, isn't that more "selfish" than having one? Isn't having any children at all - unless you are of superior genetic, moral, financial, etc. status - a little selfish? Yet I'm sure most of you posting have at least one child, if not two or more.

Seeing posts like this makes me glad I don't watch TV; I'm sure my blood pressure would be through the roof.

And for the record, Patrick, I'm with you, on this one.

So, creative license, where is the Bravo or TLC series making stars of the people NOT having 7 and 8 kids?

Well, at least since Queer Eye went off the air.

(See... I *do* have a snese of humor about it!!)

Having that many kids just seems irresponsible to... the children. Unless you want (and can afford to stay home) to homeschool your kids like those nuts with 19 children, how much one on one time can they possibly have with their parents? How can the parents possibly expect to put money away to at least help with education later on when you have that many extra bodies to feed and clothe? Maybe this particular family doesn't have to worry about money, but lots of families this size can't afford to be.

Even if large families don't care about the larger picture, they must look to their own financial boundaries, right...? I used to serve multiple families with eight kids at a restaurant on Sundays, and they couldn't afford to purchase individual meals for their kids, let alone tip. It was sad to see.

francakes86--

I have no children. I must be doing it wrong.

But seriously, do you need clarification between TWO children and SEVEN?

I don't feel totally comfortable saying that it's "wrong" to have several children, but I don't agree with it, personally. Different strokes. I do believe it's more socially responsible to "pare down" on the kiddies, though.

As for the show, I only get network TV so I won't be watching. But I doubt I would watch it even if I did get Bravo.

I'm with you on this one Cashew, I have two teenagers, and it can be hard to feel like you're having enough quality time with them individually when there's only two of them. I can't even imagine how hard that must be when there's 7.. or more.

clampers--

Since there are regular lectures on here about how it is "irresponsible" to have a big home, "unethical" to eat animal flesh, "disgusting" to have a cowhide rug, and "thoughtless" not to think of the vegetarians when I am planning my next dinner party, I have NO problem whatsoever saying it's wrong to have an excess of offspring.

But my issue, here, on this post, is not that people HAVE them. Free country, thank god. It's why we choose to CELEBRATE them, with crapshows like this.

Testing... can't see the comments...

With a life as hectic and in turmoil as those people seem to have...they shouldn't have kids at all. There it is...I said it. They obviously have no time for them. And why is it okay for the dad to lie openly to the mom and that's okay?! I think not. At least some of those kids are going to not turn out very well...some may thrive in the chaos but others won't.

And Patrick, I'm with you.

For this couple and many others (who, not coincidentally, end up with tv shows), the attention garnered from so many kids is a great part of the thrill. In certain segment of NY, the number of kids is a status symbol -- shows how much you can afford vis a vis private school, size of home, Escalade, etc.

Good point, Patrick.

Referring to the poster inquiring as to the "right" number of children, I have heard that replacement is the right number. Meaning, two. In the Western world children do not live in as dangerous a time when compared to 100 years ago - when children died in farm accidents, from pneumonia, etc.

I do not have children by choice. Where I live in Los Angeles, it is not uncommon to see families of 5 children or more. I figure I'm covered by someone else. Overpopulation rarely ever comes up as the source of many of the world's problems, it is believed to be a birth rite of sorts and beyond intellectual reasoning.

I am glad to see that the subject is at least being discussed here and I assume you are much younger than I - perhaps the next generation (I'm 44). Progress is slow. Women have only been "liberated" for a scant 50 years. The more a woman is educated and seeks a career, the less chance she will have children. I predict the birth rate will ease up as women keep evolving into power.

The Huffington Post just yesterday had an article about the best thing you can do for the environment is not have any kids if anyone's interested...

I think that having children is a selfish act, just as having pets or a house or a car is a selfish act. You have them because you want to, not because it's a holy calling or because the world will be a better place.

I wouldn't move against people who want any number kids as long as they aren't expecting my tax dollars to pay for them. However, I think that large families can't claim the moral high ground unless they're largely made up of adopted kids.

I enjoyed it and the family. They are the perfect balance of downtown cool and hyper type-A all rolled into one. The wife is beauitful and strong. The husband is hip and slightly off his rocker. Perfect combination. Those children are great!

Hope the show continues without negative family drama or their complete breakdown.

I like their design. Their projects are amazing and with no formal training it gives inspiration to the rest of us to give it a go with our own homes.

As for kids, it is a personal choice if and how many people want to have. Watching someone on a tv show is not going to allow me to know them, really know them, so commenting on their personal choice seems silly, particularly on a design website.

Holy crap. I like this show because the houses are amazing, I loved the dome over the basketball court. And instead of overpopulation, why not call it over sexualization of teenagers? or college students? or one night standers? Anyone heard of MTV'S 16 And Pregnant? or the the movie "Knocked up?" If you want to get on this topic, try addressing some of the crap out there about un-married teen moms or people who get drunk and have "accidents". I agree we shouldn't have some of the shows that exist (Jon and Kate much?). Just so the kids don't end up all over the media while their parents are fighting over who get's what in their divorce settlement.

I still don't get why it's selfish...Aren't you all someone's children? And isn't this show about design? which is why it's here on AT? I'm sure there are a lot more shows without multiple children involved. You just have to be interesting. Obviously, if you don't have children then you can't relate to how interesting life can be with them.

@byebyemap : uh, I wouldn't "call" over-sexualization of teens or any of your other comments because that wouldn't have anything to do with *this* post as far as I can see... so it wouldn't be pertinent.

carlafelix: it's selfish because you're doing it out of a desire to have children, not out of any altruistic notion. Selfishness is inherent in all species. It doesn't mean that it's wrong or bad.

And I'm puzzled by your comment "Obviously, if you don't have children then you can't relate to how interesting life can be with them." This is like telling people that they have to be dogs to know what bones are. You can perfectly comprehend that children can be interesting to be around yet still not want them yourself.

carlefelix: life is interesting with a cat too, not everyone wants to experience that though.

Oh boy! This is funny. And I might as well put in my 2 cents too.

I don't know their situation, but it seems that a lot of people with a lot of kids make that decision because of religious reasons. And I'm thankful that we have that choice in this country. Choice of religion, choice of number of children you can have, etc. AND I'm totally with Patrick (other one) in his disgust about our society choosing to celebrate this choice by giving them TV shows, etc. Silly to me.

As a mother of two adopted boys, I am thrilled that they are who they are and not little carbon copies of my husband and I. Don't get me wrong, I understand the desire to have children from a "I need to be a parent" standpoint (obviously, or I wouldn't have put all those years into paperwork, long waiting lists, etc it takes to adopt) -- but actually giving birth to more than one or two seems self indulgent to me. Not to mention the economic/ecologic strain this can put on all of us.

Having said all of that, I also firmly believe that this is a personal decision for each individual, but one I don't understand, agree with OR especially want to watch on TV.

Signed the Zero-Population Growth pledge back in the early 70's when I was young, and have stuck with it throughout my life. No kids. My parents were crestfallen that nobody was continuing the family line (my brother has no kids, either.) But it's not about them, it's about me not wanting to be a (bad) parent, not wanting to deal with handing down genetic traits that have impaired my own life, not wanting to bring children into this hostile world, not wanting to increase the load on the planet. I believe responsible thinking adults should limit their families to two "replacement" kids, and adopt if they truly want and can properly support a bigger family. (Opinion.)

I won't ever watch that design show, though, because of the kids. Never watched Jon & Kate, not amused by large families as "entertainment". (Almost never babysat, don't entertain families with young kids, they are just not part of my life, except at work where I can't avoid them.)

Design shows should be about design.

cute show. you see inside interesting nyc residences of all sorts. their kids are pretty nice and they have a fairly great dynamic. and that lady was a powerhosue packing in two days to move.

one on one time is overrated. my mom's a boomer, middle of seven. she's the only one who can recall solo time with her mom. these people sit down as a family. they work things out amongst themselves. that's quite enough.

I don't have kids, but I care less about the number of children in this family than I do about the effect of this type of exposure on the kids.

If the parents want to be on TV, fine, but when I think back to my own awkward child/teen moments, I can't imagine that it's ultimately a positive thing for the kids to have their childhoods played out in front of millions.

Another thing -- these shows about big families NEVER make me want to have a ton of kids. In fact, I would bet they have the opposite effect for most sane people.

Another in agreement with Patrick. Seven kids is a litter and like dogs we should not be having litters in this time.

This show does not look appealing at all.

I watched the premiere, and won't be watching again, mainly because I couldn't find one redeeming quality in any of the participants.

So, has anyone actually watched the show?

listen, forget the controversy and take heart in a hip city family raising a gaggle of (seemingly) normal kids in a funky and unconventional, if not chaotic, urban environment.

gives us kid-loving city-dwellers hope that me you baby does not = resigning to life in the 'burbs! (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.)

cheers to the novogratz's. and make no bones about it: if i had the money, i'd be living that life. kids, chaos, and all.

Juliescript,
I struggle right now not to be rude, but I am
astounded by your remarks.
Some people would call having children a "holy" calling,
a spiritual longing, at least, and definitely a biological calling.
People don't have children in order to make the world a better place? I think that's the dear hope of many parents.
People having "any number" of kids shouldn't expect your tax dollars to pay for them?
Hon, where do you think tax dollars come from? That's right! KIDS that were had by people who used to be kids!
We need people to be born! So they can pay for people like you when you are old, and have no one to take care of you!

It's interesting to read all these posts.

I find the most selfish adults I know are the ones who don't have children.

I've got to see this show!

Their house has been on the market FOREVER! No doubt, they need the money. They're probably doing this show so they can feed that mob. Or, they're just egomaniacs who love seeing themselves on TV. Some of those kids look miserable!

I think they have good taste, and an interesting eye when it comes to selecting art. I look past all the kids (could not care less) to the design elements.

Is that kid on the ladder trying to do a Frank Sinatra impersonation? What the heck is a ladder doing in that picture anyhow??

I turned it on in the middle of the program so maybe I missed this part, but I really don't understand why they're moving again. Didn't they just build this 5 story dream house with the basketball court on the roof? If they have a business building/designing/decorating homes, why can't they just channel all their creative energy there instead of uprooting the kids every time the mood strikes to start over. Their children looked kind of devastated/annoyed to be moving yet again. Obviously it's their life, but I wouldn't want to do that to myself. Too much stress.

Also, did not get the sense the show would focus much on "design" but more in the daily chaos of their lives which is less interesting to me. Have enough going on with my own life.

Just watched the first episode..

1. I hate reality shows.

2. I'm pretty disgusted by the trend of rewarding dysfunctional people (some of whom happen to have a ton of kids) with money and exposure at the cost of their kids lives and privacy..

That said? This is far from the worst thing I've seen on Tv. It's a big family, but seems relatively healthy, especially compared to people like octomom who live in a fantasy that somehow all of her kids are going to have love and attention. These parents are insanely busy, but still manage to connect with their kids, the older children are helping around the house, and kids are acting up - but not acting OUT - there's a huge difference.

Personally, I'd hate to have to move so often, but they do take that into consideration - they say they stay within a small block radius so that the kids don't have to switch schools.

I'm sure they also get a lot of help that wasn't shown on the program - cleaning, cooking, etc, but they're clearly also relatively self sufficient. Another huge difference from a lot of shows about indulgent, spoiled rich people who are trying to become 'socialites'. Real Housewives? plz.

With all the articles on here about 'scaling down', and the like, isn't it a good thing to model to your children that a home is where you create it? Seems like that's exactly what these people are doing, literally.

Seriously, the only thing anyone has to say about this show is that the family sucks because they have seven kids? I haven't seen it, but I also hardly saw a single person actually comment on the show.

And am I just totally ignorant? I know all the arguments about overpopulation, etc., but I had no idea that this many people felt so strongly that having children was such an immoral, selfish act.

Lots of interesting points here -- I particularly agree with SaraBa.

While a family this large may have been the norm in decades and centuries past, it was because infant and child mortality rates were much higher.

But today, when we're already scraping the planet clear of resources for the current population, it seems like a lot of mouths to add. And frankly, I think it's sometimes an exercise in vanity -- people with overly healthy egos wanting as many little versions of themselves as possible.

First of all, you’re all idiots for having such strong opinions about things you haven’t thoroughly researched. There is no such thing as overpopulation. Look at the data. Not random people’s stupid opinions. At some point in your lives, you people should at least attempt to look up the most recent UN Population Division reports, World Population Monitoring. There is no shortage in food, living space or resources. And whenever there are people starving in third world countries, it’s the result of a ruthless dictator withholding food for political reasons- NOT overpopulation. The INCREASE in population was accompanied by an increase in production. look it up.

Secondly, there are too many old people in this country and too few Americans working. If it weren’t for the immigrants and illegals in this country, we wouldn’t be able to function financially and all of you ecologically conscious people wouldn’t be able to AFFORD to recycle and equip your homes with solar powered devices. We need MORE children in the world right now because we’re experiencing a population DECLINE. But there are still all the old farts alive, kicking, and sexing it up with Viagra at age 104- who the hell is supposed to pay for them, if not the next generaton?

This world is experiencing global warming, not because there are too many people consuming too many resources, but because there are too few people replenishing the resources we are using. Instead of having less children, have more children and make them all plant one tree every year. You guys are tards.

and to SherryBinNH, you signed that pledge and disappointed your parents for nothing. go get pregnant so your kids can pay to keep your aging mother alive. Again, you people are ridiculous.

LOVE THIS SHOW

lauradenise20: go troll somewhere else, we're not feeding you.

well baba yaga, I suggest you visit the many nursing homes in this country and see how many parents languish alone while their children are within easy driving distance.

Also, it doesn't matter what someone feels their desire to have children as - it may be their "holy calling" but it doesn't negate the fact that they're having children because of their own personal desire. Having kids does not make one a saint. It just makes a person someone who has kids.

I stumbled on this program late one night and frankly, I think it's dumb. If I had a family, I would never subject them to as many moves as these people have, regardless of how much money someone offered me for a property I just finished renovating. Children require and deserve stability and tranquility in their lives, excessively moving them from place to place even within the same neighborhood could easily plant the seeds for potential psychological upheavals in their later lives. As for the parents there's definitely something wrong with them, they're obviously incapable of staying in one place for more than a year or two.

And exactly when do these parents have the quality time to spend with their children when they're constantly involved in the renovation or construction of their own home?

Patrick, I agree with you.

"Secondly, there are too many old people in this country"

You know what would have solved this? Having fewer children a century ago ;)

As someone who never wanted kids, I am still in awe of those parents who do--however, I know 3 families well, all intelligent, community-oriented folks, who have chosen to have 3 kids, and I have to say I just don't understand having more than two. I DO take heart, as mregan suggested, that these are loving engaged parents with financial means raising responsible kids. I just don't understand it and I feel sort of judgmental. I guess it does seem selfish.

Seven kids when you're not a polygamous mormon seems insane.

They are not as interesting to me as a family i know that has 4 kids, all of them are prodigies with respect to at least one musical instrument and although they have wild moments, they act totally appropriate and drama free in all circumstances. And the parents are both creative free spirits.
it doesn't always have to be chaos. these people love chaos because without chaos, they can't be heroic problem solvers.

And, since the 1970s, people in NY do not relocate to bars. that was so faux it was pathetic. Its called zoning, which people who renovate in NY with building permits learn about very quickly.

patrick (the other one) said:

"So, creative license, where is the Bravo or TLC series making stars of the people NOT having 7 and 8 kids?"

Uh, it's called THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK CITY.

But seriously, people, a TV show isn't about to incite a population explosion. Like I said above, some people have a lot of kids, other people (as evidenced by most of the comments on this post) have zero kids. It all evens out in the end. If we all came for "two kid" families, this would be a pretty boring world. Everybody, with their own unique life experiences, brings something different to the table. It's called "diversity."

Someone's got to discover the next cure for an infectious disease, write the symphonies, create a new art form, build a business, and oh, yeah, pay the taxes so all us old people can keep getting social security.

I'm guessing that these kids have a good shot at doing any and all of the above. I like the design work done by the parents, and as for uprooting--they live in NYC. They have a vacation house in Brazil, which they rent, I think, if I recall their book correctly.

well i did watch the first episode, even though i don't really care for reality tv, i was curious about their design abilities. that being said, these people would never have gotten their own tv show based on their design abilities alone, it was the 7 kids in tow that signed that contract. don't get me wrong, they have decent taste, but really, how innovative is it to decorate with hi/low pieces, a few flea market finds, rugs everywhere and white walls? nothing wrong with that, but not exactly ground breaking and certainly not worthy of a design show.
as for all the kids, i've met people who have had to move several times as children and its usually not something they look back on fondly, some of which are in therapy just to deal with the issues that ensued from all the uprooting. and the amount of kids does seem excessive, sort of 'screw you all you unwanted kids of the world, our parts work and we use them'. and it is a drain on the world's resources, you can't make everyone on earth plant a tree and replace all the resources they use.
the show was a business decision for these people. the kids are part of that decision, not dissimilar to the parents of yore that would parade their disfigured children to a circus audience. i'm not saying what they're doing is the same thing, but really, they have a reality show, not a design show. its a show about hipsters with loads of kids who happen to design their homes well enough to sell them for a pretty penny.
and one last thought- there was a scene in the show that shows the father giving 'points' to whichever kid can shout out where they purchased certain objects in their house, eg 'one point for where we got these lamps, fountain, rug'. i mean, what if none of the kids give a rodent's rump about design? i never cared much about what far corner of the earth my parents acquired a particular piece of furniture, but then again, my parents didn't parade me on tv with my siblings for a buck.

ITA catmama, but its funny - if you wanted to showcase your design abilities, which is what the wife seems to suggest in the promos - you would think that you would show people that you can get stuff done right and on time and with a single execution. I'm not sure a potential client would look at this and think anything other than "I'm going to be paying a lot of overtime in this job". The drama of this is what makes it desirable reality television, but the crisis? Not what I want in a GC or a designer.

this show gave me a headache, it was so over the top and chaotic....ill probably watch it once more just to see if i can make it through.

Love it!

All I can think about is overpopulation when I see this commercial. And yes. Overpopulation is a factor in global warming. I highly doubt any of these seven children are going to go and figure out how to replenish NONrenewable resources.

Wow, I've never felt guilty about having 4 kids until this very moment (I really DON'T feel guilty...). But which side of the fence do I fall on now? Am I still under the limit considered irresponsible (because I don't have 7)or am I causing the rapid downward spiral of the world as we know it (because I have more than 2)? Am I selfish because I feel like four kids is my limit instead of two? Am I less selfish because I homeschool my kids and I have expectations for their behavior and I cloth diaper my babies or am I a monster because we don't always recycle the gazillion cartons of soy milk we go through in a week? It's a slippery slope we're treading here people. And I'm not a fan of dysfunctional human TV (whether they have kids or not). I think the glorification of scripted and facilitated drama and anguish for profit is WAY more selfish than my fourth (and very beautiful) baby.

I LOVED this show and hope to watch it again. I esp. like the wife. Would happily move into their places.

This is the first time I've been totally turned off by AT comments. How judgmental and ugly. It's so strange to hear people call other people selfish. Aren't we all selfish in certain ways? Isn't having a house, consuming resources, driving a car, working for money, etc, etc, etc all selfish? Do people get married because they only want to make the other persons life better? No benefits to themselves? When we do things that are "unselfish" doesn't that sometimes make us feel better and therefor isn't THAT selfish? Selfish? Sure, who isn't? Why bicker about it?

"It's interesting to read all these posts.
I find the most selfish adults I know are the ones who don't have children.
I've got to see this show!"
posted by Danica123 -

Are you for real? What an ignorant statement. I know many people that do not have children and they are some of the kindest, selfless, and most generous people I know.

By that statement I can see why people without kids might seem selfish to you.

Wow, who needs television for night time entertainment. AT has become quite amusing.

I like the design work done by the couple. The children don't bother me because they seem normal and well behaved for children their age and the parents seem to be able to afford them, unlike the creepy children/family from the 19 and counting reality show.

While I don't have children I don't care how many other people choose to have. UNLESS they can't afford to take care of them and my tax dollars have to. Now that is a problem for me. After living in CA for almost 7 years, I am so shocked to see how many families here have so many children that they can't afford to take care of. But, they keep having them because of some moral or religious reasoning.

In the last 10 years having children has become a status thing for many. Like little trophies. Look how hollywood, news shows, gossip mags, etc etc. goes nuts everytime some actress get's pregnant!

Oh and to the comment about "People without children being some of the most selfish people she knows" You need to get a better group of friends. I don't think having children makes someone more kind, loving, caring or selfless then a childless person.

Just mu 2 scents.

Um - the creepy 19 and counting family? They can totally afford those kids, and could even before the show. They live pretty well totally without government assistance and debt. That big 7000 sf home? no mortgage, paid in cash, the built a lot of it themselves on weekends, they used to take no govt assistance of any kind, including no public school. They manage their existence primarily by operating businesses and by acquiring their possessions through second hand shopping, mostly at auctions. Their theme is getting what they need without paying full price and without going into debt. Those kids have visited more of the US than any presidential candidate and that was before the TV show. And their ethos toward recycling and fixing things instead of throwing them away used to be a more prominent part of their show, before they acquired their gas guzzling "magic bus". There was an interview with the mother a few years back and she said that one reason they did the show was because they wanted to share their religious philosophy but also, they wanted their kids to see the world and air travel was too expensive. And on their foreign trips - they do a huge amount of charitable work. Their religious philosophy is extreme and unappealing to most, but I do think that people should know that they are not living on the public trust on a day to day basis.

Wow, people sure do get defensive and/or judgemental when it comes to having or not having kids. Someone doesn't like it if you choose not to have children, another doesn't like it if you have too many; pro adoption; con adoption.

In regards to this specific show, I was actually pleasantly suprised at how great the kids seemed. They appear to be independent, thoughtful, interesting children.

And I also really liked how Courtney and Bob talked about getting their start. Buying an old dilapitated building in an up and coming part of town, doing all the renovations themselves, going into debt, working their way out, etc. And they seem to take it all in a healthy stride.

I’m kind of surprised at the level of passion about this topic coming from the people who don’t have/don’t want large families. I hate the whole Jon and Kate circus, but I don’t see anything inherently wrong with featuring large families on TV.

Maybe it’s because I’ve known a lot of big families growing up – both ones made up of mostly-adopted, and ones of all biological kids, but I don’t see anything wrong, or aberrant about it. I’ve seen well-run large households, and I’ve seen disastrous ones – but I’ve seen exactly the same in homes with only one or two kids.

I have seen one or two families where the parents were run ragged, in financial straights, and unable to spend time with their kids – but that isn’t the norm from what I’ve experienced, and I grew up in low-middle to middle-class neighborhoods and communities.

Usually they were happy, well adjusted, busy, fun families. I always wanted to hang out with them – they had the pool table in the garage, and built-in best friends to play with, they had parents that didn’t care if you came to dinner (“We always make extra!” They’d tell me, “just call your mom and ask if you can eat here tonight!”), and no one was ever bored.

Even as an adult I’ve enjoyed this – I moved across the country two years ago, and started going to a new church. There was one large family in the congregation (8 kids) and they have practically adopted me. I’m a bridesmaid in one of the eldest’s wedding this Friday.

I am 25, unmarried, with no kids, and grew up with two younger brothers. I don’t have any plans right now to have a huge family, but because of the families I’ve grown up with, I don’t rule it out, especially because I plan to adopt. It’s not always about religion, or money – sometimes it’s just about building the kind of family culture you want.

Whether it’s ecologically irresponsible or not, I’m not going to go into, but don’t dismiss large families out of hand as being “litters”.

"as for the show, from the commercials everyone on Bravo seems to be a smug, loudmouthed, overly-made-up phony, so no i won't be watching. posted by carolynapplebee"

This. These people just seem really obnoxious to me, with or without the kids.

On the kid thing, I'm not totally sure where I stand, but I tend to think the problem is less about over-population and more about the unsustainable lifestyles that we live here in the US and in other rich countries. I actually think if we really tried, we could sustain the world with the resources we have -- distribution is just so out of whack right now. I don't have stats to back that up, but I'm sure they're out there. :)

It's just a show people! Tune in or turn off.

I find it hilarious that people are so riled up over the number of Novogratz kids. To each his own...

They have a great eye when it comes to design, it's somewhat unconventional, and they also happen to have a very large family. Is it really something to make such a big deal about? For the majority of you on here that do not want kids and don't plan to have any, there are two or three families that do and can afford to have them. And not everyone has the capacity to love and care for an adopted child like they would their own.

So chill out. This is one family out of about 11 million people on the island of Manhattan. And I have a good suspicion that a good portion of you that are complaining about overpopulation reside in areas that aren't even .05% of the population in New York City's most popular borough.

I think that it's awesome that people feel that they can come together and discuss issues here freely. I'm particularly impressed that so many people have shared their views on this thread so well with very little belittling of other people's opinions (with a few exceptions, of course).

But, as far as people being concerned about overpopulation and living unsustainabley when they don't live in high pop areas.. isn't that what social responsibility and empathy is all about? Thinking outside of yourself and your own situation?

Juliescript,
just a note-
I didn't call having children a "holy calling."
I was actually quoting, uh, you.
Do you even know what your argument is anymore,
or does it even matter?

I'm confused. Is this show about children or Design? If it's about Design, I might give it a shot.

"...not having kids is a lot for people to wrap their brains around..." Well put, Hunted.

I happen to really love this show. But, more for their design asthetic. I want to know where they find all that great art??!!

The design and decorating points are great. They are a talented couple with interesting children that are individuals. It is like a train wreck with some design candy. I grew up in a family with four kids on a family farm. Everybody was busy, including the kids. We were always together. I do enjoy that they make the kids work around the house. Also, they do not make a fuss about the children. Which is refreshing, the world is way too "kid crazy." They were made to clean and help in the moving. They seem to have control of the kids in a chaotic way. However, all this said I do view it as vulgar to have so many kids. I am a firm believer that the world can barely support the population as things stand, environmentally and financially.

I've been noticing a growing obsession with children in the past couple of decades. I can't quite understand what's so fascinating about celebrities having kids or huge families or pregnant teens.

On the flip side, the childfree movement is growing, which I am glad about because I appreciate knowing that there are other people who have decided not to have children for whatever reason.

I don't think 16 and pregnant glorifies teen pregnancy - quite the opposite actually- i think it should probably be jr.high school curriculum.

The Duggars drive me bonkers, they are BORING, and excessive.

THIS family is fun, 6 kids isn't excessive in my opinion, but I know several families of 6 kids so it's not a big deal to me, they are just people that love kids and the big family dynamic. I prefer big families to tiny ones - they're just a lot of fun really (i know that may surprise some of you but its true)- especially would never have an only child.

But I also plan to adopt all my kids as I just have a soft spot in that respect.

Patrick, I agree with you both about this show and the issue of overpopulation...could that be twice this week?

I think that notwithstanding the opinions of "experts" here like lauradenise20--who can somehow manage to use "research" and "tards" in the same post--it is pretty obvious from NUMEROUS sources of data that there are too many people on the planet.

My issue with this show specifically is the same with all "reality" TV--it's not reality if you know you are being filmed, and I am 100% opposed to people pimping out their kids for profit. Really, these people are no different from the Duggars, John and Kate, or the Palin family--they just have better taste. Oh, and their kids have really, really stupid names that seem to get worse the more they produce. Breaker? Five? Holleder? For the love of God.

I pledge to never have a child to balance out the overpopulation...

Okay... so I don't want children 'cause I kinda like my life as it is... :)

A lot of people in my circle think that many children in a family is one of life's necessities or "the next logical step." For me, it's just not... Not something I have ever desired.

I work for a child advocacy agency and volunteer a lot in the community. For me, that's my way of giving back to society and perpetuating humanity in some small way...

I do enjoy having friends who have made the same choice as I have not to have children. It's nice to not be pressured and it's nice to have someone who can take a trip at a moment's notice.

I live about 30 minutes from the Duggars, and the word on the street is that they get Medicaid, the house was donated (although the family buit it themselves), and their property is registered as a church so they don't have to pay taxes on it. But, that's all rumor.
I agree with the saying, "If you can't feed them, don't breed them."

On the flip side, I am a mother of four, and you guys almost succeeded in making me feel guilty. However, I love my children so very much, I would never ever regret having them. And my children are learning from a very young age about recycling and caring about the planet. So all you kid-haters, continue on... I'm proud to be the mother of my kids. :)

I watch the show all the time, i like it very much and i think their kids are fairly well behaved, i have two kids, son 21 and daughter 23, i watch alot of reality shows my favorite tv shows,

anyway so happy i found this wonderful web site,
i enjoy seeing how you all decorate your places,

washington state.

Oh my goodness. So many of you really need to get off your high horses. Ridiculously annoying.

@ brandias and others

I don't think those of us here that are child-free are "kid haters". That is exactly the kind of misguided accusation unfairly thrown at us regularly from strangers, friends and family members on a regular basis. And the notion that we are selfish because we have decided not to have children is an egregious misrepresentation.

I have spent many unpaid hours of my working life covering for parents who had to get home to a sick child, daycare, etc. Just last week we were passed over on a freelance job because the other designer has three young children to feed and we do not - this is what the employer told us. Not only is that not fair it's probably illegal. Most of my child-free friends spent their free time volunteering, often in arts organizations benefiting children. We also pay taxes to support the schooling of children and Medicaid to benefit the health of children. We do not protest this taxation, we understand it benefits society as a whole.

So please, do not call child-free people selfish. We already have enough guilt and bullsh*t to deal with from our distraught and disappointed family members. One of which also offered to pay me to have children. Sick, twisted. That gene strain should be stopped!

What Patrick (the other one) said.

People who are child-free are NOT selfish. They are just as caring or not as anybody else. However, it's unlikely that there carbon footprint is the equivalent of the people on 9 By Design<i/>.

Or, in some cases, their contribution. Having a lot of children doesn't negate that.

There are 7 kids in my family. I'm the eldest. We are all loved, well taken care of, socially-responsible, well-adjusted people. As for "quality time," I don't think any of us have ever felt neglected. Regarding the carbon footprint of my family, we have always recycled, use public transportation, and three of us are vegetarian. There wasn't always a ton of luxury growing up, but we never lacked anything.

Our parents are not religious, and are both (college educated) Cleveland area factory workers. If all of their kids decided to be childfree, Mom and Dad wouldn't bat an eye.

Everyone has the right to control their own fertility. If you choose to have a kids, use technology, adopt or be childfree, those are your choices.

Toastsixoh--I have a 10 foot pole--though I'm not completely sure what your point is. It is not how many kids we have that is destroying our environment its the waste we produce. 1 child in the United States produces as much waste as 9 in a developing country. And I do not see the immigrants here who build our homes, take care of our children, prune our gardens, fix our cars and clean up our crap (literally) as particularly wasteful consumers. When you go drop off a load at the goodwill, who do you think is then buying it? Living in Los Angeles, immigrants are the only people using public transportation so they are not wasteful there. And honestly, most of these people cannot afford to bring there large families over here--they work here to send money back home. Are you a Native American? Because if not, you came from immigrants too so lay off.
Also, it's interesting how incensed so many of you are--even to the point of being angered by people who have 3 children instead of 2, but how many of you are big meat eaters or buy new clothes, (textiles is one of the most wasteful industries) or new furniture? I come from a big family and I agree with whoever said they are more fun because they are. I've always wanted to have a large family but am considering adoption because of this very issue.
As for the show, I think if you are a fan of AT you would enjoy the show. I would never watch a show that was just about someone with a lot of kids, but I do think this show seems to focus more on their design process. They do so much it's actually pretty inspiring since I have no kids and can't seem to get anything done. And I think they are religious so now we know why they have so many kids.

amen noregrets coyote

Definately interesting show. I think that having that many kids is a little odd, especially if you are leading a very busy life. There is not enough hours to give enough attention to your kids. Well some parents have fewer kids and still do not find the time, so what is the correct number.
They are definately into very "designed" furniture and stuff. And the dad is trying very hard to stay with the times an be hip.
I saw the house with river view. It looks like a cheap construction from the 70's that someone might buy and do cut renovation. Maybe cool inside, outside definately not working for me. Especially when your house front is steps away from a nonstop, heavy traffic.

So, if all of the seven kids are adopted, is that going to make them an environmentally friendly family?
I am getting tired of all the preaching when it is and when it is not appropriate. It's selfish to have SUV and buy a new car every 2 years, to own 30 pairs of shoes, to have 2000 sqf house for two people, to buy bottled water and etc. It's not selfish to have kids especially if you can afford them and teach them to be respectful to the Earth.

I love the show, talented couple with beautiful kids.

As a former "not kid" person who only wanted to have them once I met my husband, I'd say many of the comments here just seem so small minded- in both directions. It was not until I lost twins 3/4 of the way through a pregnancy that I realized how much love the heart is capable of giving to a child. And that is what they need. If you are incapable of providing that, - for whatever reason, not to be judged by others- than don't have kids. If you are capable- and financially capable as well, then have as many as you want and other peoples judgements be damned.
As for me, after having two or possibly three of my own, I would contemplate adoption. Because the thought of a child walking this earth with no-one to love him breaks my heart. But then, the thought of bringing a stranger- likely a toddler- into my home scares the crap out of me. Screaming "adopt" is simply not the answer for all people who prefer a large family dynamic.

Whoa this topic has set off quite a disscussion! I am a mother of two and am very content with that number. I personally could not imagine my life with more children but that is a personal choice. I can't say that I agree with people having very very large families because really who could devote the time that each and every child deserves. I guess my biggest beef with this show is how much they move around. I really don't care how many kids they have but that all of that moving is stressful for the kids. At least they stay within the same school zone but those kids must really hate moving every time mum and dad need to make some money. Just not for me!

yuck.is there another sight for this absurd ranting? i agree with you ,teeze, small minds indeed....dove russel ... the horses don't get much higher!.....opinion's are like a-holes....EVERYBODY HAS ONE . Cashew....it is SAD to serve a big family in a restaurant who have to share kids meals ? At least they are taking the kids out to eat...that comment just seemed so shallow to me .there is so much in this world that is sadder than that. especially when it come's to kids. Sorry but not one of you is perfect and you do need to come back to the planet earth. there is no black and white , right or wrong ,too complex to even get into if you ask me , on a design site none the less. Patrick....(the other one) , You are alway's right on ! I just could not keep away from this one because sooo many crappy comments were posted. pompous butt heads.

to all these comments, I can only say "wow".

seriously, people. it's a fun show that gives us a look at a cool, hip family living it up int he greatest city in the world. As an ex-nyer, I have often fantasized about moving back to the city with our brood in tow. Alas, I don't have millions in the bank, so it won't happen. Still it is fun to see this family make it work and the design aspect is spectacular.

A little bit David Hicks meets Cynthia Rowley meets Rachel Zoe's House (and home philosophy, read her book)
...I LOVE this show but I am watching because of the designs.

I am married and have two kids.
I do not have a dog or a cat.
I love modern design.

I think we need to have a Margaret Sanger approach to child bearing. I mean all these uppity people feeling they have the right to bear children is really narcissistic. By the way in case you can't read that is sarcasm, it might be lost on you, just like so many other things obviously are...

For their design savvy and energy, yes: I will continue to watch. But there's something just a wee bit odd here.

The father, husband, seems to be a bit stuck in childhood. The wife/mother is the strong figure and I cannot but help to draw similar comparisons to that "Other Show About a Big Family With Strong Female Head of Household".

I guess I heard it best described as Jon and Kate meet Sex and The City, with Bob being compared to a "Mickey Dolan re-imagined by Quentin Tarantino". All reviews say that Cortney is amazing, beautiful, and I definitely agree.

I was about to chime in and say that I'm with Patrick, but thought perhaps I better watch the show....

Yep, still with him.

This is Insane!

@ Juliescript: According to you I am one selfish *beep*!! Oh well, hope hell is hott and ready for me!

As a 26 year old female my intent has always been to have children so long as they will be brought into a stable, two parent home. Bottom line, I do not want to be a single mother, but I do want to have and give birth to a child, and that is my right. Just as it is my right to not have children at all, and to not adopt if I simply do not want to.

Personally, I would never want more 7 kids, but if there are parents who can fully provide for them then I'm not going to sit back and throw judgement at them for it, to each their own. It's the parents who are having baby after baby knowing damn well they cannot support them, that is the only time I take issue with it.

I do agree that turning these families into reality tv stars is getting out of hand. But that can be said for all of the crap reality show's that are now, sadly, the norm.

And let's not overlook the fact that they are actually talented!! Kids aside, they do good work and at least the show is based on that and not simply the fact that they have 7 kids and counting... or whatever!

Bottom line, no one has the right to tell any person in this country how many kids they can or cannot have, so get over it.

Interestingly enough if you read what I actually wrote, you will discover that my *point* was that the term "selfish" applies to the choice to have children, just as it does for everything else that we do because we *want* to do it/have it/experience it.

If you want kids, have them. If you don't, then don't. It's a selfish choice either way.

I am going to watch.

Back when Project Runway was on Bravo, I recall a designer in her 40s who was pregnant on the show( sorry can't remember her name). I then found out it was her 5th(?) child! I was so impressed to see a beautiful intelligent accomplished woman having MANY children and still having a successful career in NYC!
I used to think having alot of kids meant giving that up- moving to the burbs or country, homeschooling and all that earth mama stuff (which I totally respect as well).
It is so encouraging to see that there are many paths to happiness in life.
What matters most is defining it FOR YOURSELF and making it happen.

Just want to take the time to thank all the feminists before me who made these all these valid choices possible.

Wow.... 'over population'... I never even thought about that point of view... I don't agree, but everyone can have their own opinion...

I am a parent of two kids (2.5 months and 10 months) and this show has gave me a nice kick in the butt to do more with the kids instead of taking the 'I don't think I can do that with the kids...'.....

The Novogratz's are fascinating people. Utterly fascinating. One article about them printed a while ago compared them to Nicole and Dick Diver, a couple in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Tender is the Night, which reminded me of one of my favorite lines from the book:
"Her naivete responded whole-heartedly to the expensive simplicity of the Divers, unaware of its complexity and its lack of innocence, unaware that it was all a selection of quality rather than quantity from the run of the world's bazaar; and that the simplicity of behavior also, the nursery-like peace and good will, the emphasis on the simpler virtues, was part of a desperate bargain with the gods and had been attained through struggles she could not have guessed at."

Much of the Novogratz's history as a couple is available to read on the internet, and can be read about in their book Downtown Chic, so I won't repeat too much here. But it is important to note that they both came from large families. This is obviously a cultural factor in their own decision to have a big family.

But what I find even more fascinating is the Novogratz family history, and its history of success. I'm not sure what sort of success Cortney's side of the family has, but it's probably quite impressive as well. Robert's siblings range from a very successful venture capitalist, Michael Novogratz, to best-selling author and TED speaker Jacqueline Novogratz, "founder and CEO of Acumen Fund, a non-profit global venture fund that uses entrepreneurial approaches to solve the problems of global poverty," says her wikipedia file. And there are several other siblings as well, perhaps just as successful if not as public.

What is it about their upbringing that makes them all so successful? I would love to learn more. For some reason, I also thought I read somewhere that their grandfather was an artist, but I can't find mention of it anywhere now, so I'm not sure that's true.

One thing is clear in watching the show: They know how to maneuver and negotiate and thrive in a very difficult environment: New York City, real estate and development, lots of kids, and being successful design professionals without having degrees. They are opportunistic in the most creative of ways. Sure, they probably have opportunities available to them that most of us wouldn't have, including access to people with money, but opening just a few doors can lead to myriad more, and they seem to be on a bit of a roll now. That is impressive.

Back in the early 2000's I went to a few of Robert's New Year's Eve parties and they were quite the NYC fabulous events (except for the liquor lines and the getting home afterwards). Having worked with one of his relatives (not sure if it was a younger brother or cousin), I get a kick out of watching and listening to Robert. My co-worker was hilarious, a really sincerely nice person, and lots of fun, plus he knew where the good parties were. So I get the sense that the Novogratz's would be great fun to know, too. Authentic.

While watching the show or reading their book you won't get much design "how to", you will see their negotiation skills and their creative intuition at work. And that is downright inspiring.

Love this show, love the family, love the design. I bought their book before the show was announced. I've seen their homes in a number of magazines over the years and always admired their design creativity. I think the folks arguing back & forth about the number of kids are nuts. Any idiot can see that the children are well adjusted and very much loved by their parents. The baby christening was really beautiful. I don't really like kids myself, but I know that a lot of people who have them find great joy in raising them, and they have them for different reasons. When I saw the header about the show I thought the comments would be about their work & design. I'm a bit shocked at what the discussion turned to. How crazy you people are. I died laughing at your comments.

Wow...anyway, their design (which is the actual focus of the show) is amazing and inspiring, and I'm grateful to Bravo for introducing me to them.

The only real problem i see is with people thinking they can tell others how to live. Going on about 7 kids, seriously? I don't have a single one, but if you think you can handle 7 (which they seem to be doing) then go for it.

There are certainly bigger more threatening problems to get incensed about.

To many of the posters on this thread...

May you never be judged as harshly as you've judged others

Seriously, our opinions aren't that important, they change with the breeze.

@firstfriday : do you still have that orange chesterfield I saw on a post here? would you ever consider selling it? email me at bjzapor@gmail.com, PLEASE!