Can you be green and eat meat? In a word, no.

I'm vegan except for the eggs I get from my own backyard pet hens, but I'm actually going to say yes, you can be green and eat meat. It might be harder, but it's possible. For a lot of thoughtful conversation on the topic from a person who lives the life, check out the archives of http://sharonastyk.com/ -- sorry, no direct links to specific posts, I don't have time to look them up right now, but she always has something interesting to say.

Tricky one. You can be vegetarian and non-green, certainly, so I'm thinking that with enough thought/effort you could be meat eating and green.

I'm edging towards vegetarianism - meat features in meals at most once a day for me now, and it's free range rare breed at that - partly due to the green issues. Don't know if I'm ever going to become completely vegetarian though, meat is too tasty!

I certainly can't see myself ever being vegan, which of course raises the question about being vegetarian but using animal products such as butter, milk, cheese etc - they still require the raising of these animals in large quantities, and in green terms, it's the raising of the animals that's the problem...

More than I think 'what' is important, I consider 'how'. No matter what a person decides to include in their diet, it's important to consider how it comes to us in terms of water, petroleum, and the ratio of caloric input to output. Any food product originating from an industrial scale environment taxes our natural resources.
I think our mainstream culture of consumption does need to change, and meat is a major player here. But I think making blanket statements that one cannot take the environment seriously if they eat meat...it's a blame game that takes energy away from the question of how to sustainably support our large population in all aspects.
I do eat meat, but feel that it's important to not purchase it in stores (we bought a whole lamb and turkey off of Craigslist 'Farm and Garden' to last through next summer), to let go of eating it every day, or in large amounts. I know my food's flock size, breed, gender, age, and how far it traveled to get to my plate. I know I have a finite amount to last for one year.
Vegetarian diets statistically depend more on eggs, dairy, and soy products. These products can also be raised industrially. It's important, no matter what a person's dietary preference is, to consider all information without relying on generalities in order to make the greenest choices.

Though I've been a reader of Apartment Therapy for some time, I actually finally registered just in order to respond to this post, as this is an issue that is very near and dear to me currently.

First of all, I would like to say that I agree that our society's normal way of getting meat to the dinner table is a massive drain on this earth's resources. I strongly believe that by going to pick up your ground meat at your grocery store of choice, you are ignoring the danger of climate change and perpetuating an unethical system concerned only about profit profit profit.

BUT! I would not say that becoming a vegetarian or a vegan is your only other option. In fact, I would say that there is a BETTER option that is even MORE global warming conscious and environmentally friendly: local grass fed meat farms. When animals are raised on grass, they are taking energy that we cannot use and converting it into energy we can. You then drive in your car to pick it up and take it home and that's the end of the transaction.

Often times local farms cannot survive without raising animals for meat, and so when you support them, you are helping take the next step towards a new kind of food community. It's naive to think that everyone will give up meat for the environment - it's not even feasible health wise for all, so we need to support local farmers to keep them alive so people do have that animal-friendly, environment-friendly option. I do believe that even local meat should be eaten as more of a luxury than as the staple of every meal. But supporting local farms is probably one of the biggest things you can do to combat global warming and stick it to the system that doesn't seem to care.

I would recommend Barbara Kingsolver's Animal, Vegetable, Miracle to all interested in more information. You can also easily google your home state to find local farms in your area.

I'm sorry this is so long! I just really feel strongly about this issue.

I don't like the assumption of this post that Vegetarianism = Green. It doesn't (necessarily), as Cicero mentioned.

Ditto everything Cicero said...except that Craigslist thing.

We had all of our local meat sources handled and then we moved (from TX to CA) and are still trying to figure all of that out.

Luckily, a viewing of Food, Inc lit the necessary fire under us and we now have some options we're exploring for local beef, dairy, eggs, and fish.

I often wonder what would happen to the ecosystem if everyone became vegetarian. We are not a culture that considers our animals sacred, so would they die out due to large commercial farms "needing" pasture land for crops? And this comes to mind after the story I read this morning in the NYTimes about the Federal Government wanting to corral wild horses.

EmmieB, as a vegan, I hear this sort of comment about farm animal extinction a lot, and it touches a nerve. So I feel the need to say the following, even though you personally are probably already aware of this--it would almost certainly be a good thing for the environment if the exceptionally few commercialized varieties of purpose-bred meat animals were to "die out" because people stopped demanding cheap meat for their tables. These animals bear little resemblance to their ancestors of 100 years ago, and are often miserable, grotesque varieties which have been invented and patented by big agriculture for the sole purpose of growing as quickly as possible to have the maximum amount of meat on the bone at younger and younger ages. Broiler chickens are just such pitiful animals, and are often not able to survive much past their 8 week slaughtering age, although well cared-for heritage breeds of chickens can live 8 *years* or more. Personally, I hope such animals WILL die out one day due to lack of demand.

I feel very strongly that there is a way to be green and still eat meat. This has been said above, but a combination of eating significantly less meat (once a week or less) and purchasing it directly from farmers would make huge changes in our food systems. If I could raise my own animals for meat (someday hopefully!) I would never even really feel the need to have to worry about things like transportation miles or how much toxic chemicals or fertilizers are in my food or being dumped in the water. When you are vegan/vegetarian and sourcing your food from thousands of miles away, this is way more unsustainable and irresponsible than very infrequently eating the meat supplied by a local farmer.

Logically speaking, yes.

Another way of interpreting this question could be, "How can you eat meat and be green?"

Giving something up altogether can be good for some people but it's not realistic for most people. As long as there are people who are living sustainably and eating meat there is something to learn and apply to our modern lives.

To hyzen - I think lumping factory farm animals with heritage breeds is extremely unfair. Heritage breeds are by definition very close to their ancestors. And I don't know why someone saying that certain animals shouldn't go extinct would strike a nerve. Don't species deserve to survive simply because they exist? Maybe not genetically modified/bred to death ones, but in general? Of course that's a whole other set of ethical issues...

"I don't like the assumption of this post that Vegetarianism = Green. It doesn't (necessarily), as Cicero mentioned."

Well, the reality is, vegetarianism DOES = greener than eating meat. Not everything a vegetarian does (or eats) is green, but by eating less meat, you're reducing global climate change.

Do you have any idea what commercial AGRICULTURE does to the environment? Do you know how much produce gets trucked? Do you realize how much water is used? Do you know how many pesticides are used to put vegetables on the table?

It might be *greenER* to be a vegetarian, but it's not automatically GREEN.

Mass production of anything is not GREEN by any standards.

I think you can if you:
a) don't eat it every day (I eat meat twice a week)

b) Buy grass-fed, low-impact, local meat from small producers. In the UK, 60% of beef is grass-fed on land that could not be used to grow crops-I keep to this beef. Think about eating lower-impact meat such as some game (eg.venision), as it lives in forests and feeds off natural products rather than soy-based grains it is much lower impact than grain-fed beef.

c) Milk productionis just as environmentally damaging as meat production-lower your milk/cheese consumption in order to keep eating meat-try to make some of your vegetarian meals vegan.

d) don't do other environmentally damaging things-I don't drive or fly or tumble dry my clothes, so in comparision the little meat I eat produces relatively few carbon emissions.

I do wonder with the vegetarian=green arguement (and in general I support moving towards a largely veg diet) about:

1) the impact of milk production (vegans get a big plus point here, and I am trying to reduce my milk consumption rather than going completely veggie)

2) air-freighted vegetables/fruit (I eat completely local fruit and veg but I'm not sure I would cope doing that AND eating no meat in winter)

3) fertilising agricultural land in a mythical vegetarian land.

4) I also think, if we did go completely vegetarian, we should still shot and eat the pigeons that land to eat the crops, and the veal calves produced from milk production (I buy from a local veal farm-their calves live outdoors and produce welfare-friendly rosey veal).

I basically agree with what Sian posted - sounds like we have similar lifestyles.

The problem with questions like this is that they seem to assume "green" is an end state - that there is some point at which you reach "green" - whereas we should be continually re-evaluating our choices and make the best choices we can based on known evidence and our cultural and geographic situtations.

Can you be "greener" by giving up meat? I think so, yes, but the benefits become less the closer you get to veganism (i.e., a family who goes from eating meat 5 days a week to 3 days a week makes a much bigger green move than a family who eat meat once a month and cuts that out entirely out of guilt).

I think you can also have a steak every once and a while and choose not to drive as a sort of "priority trade-off", which is what I do.

Many of the former responses are very well worded, so I'll be brief. One of the primary reasons I initially went vegan was environmentalism, not animal ethics.

I don't think we can ignore how much more grain and water it takes to produce meat products than plant-based foods, not to mention the pollution caused by the meat industry.

No judgment towards those who do eat meat, but I think that if you truly care about our planet and resources you'd go veg.

marikm1222--I guess I wasn't clear, but I was actually trying to *distinguish* between heritage breeds and the 99% of other animals that are raised for food in this country, *not* lump them together. The three heritage breed hens out pecking in my backyard would be very sad if they thought I was gunning for their extinction, lol.

The methods needed to calculate the greenhouse gas emissions from meat (or other resource intensive foods) are still in their infancy. Furthermore, there are many questions raised as to who is responsible for the emissions from raising livestock (or the grain needed to feed them).

Readers might be interested in a paper I recently published in the journal Environmental Research Letters that looks at the emissions from cattle ranching and deforestation in the Amazon and provides a method to allocate the responsibility between the producers in Brazil and final consumers of products that are exported.

A PDF of the paper can be freely downloaded here: http://stacks.iop.org/ERL/4/044010/

Bravo, pandorathecat! I love this statement:
"The problem with questions like this is that they seem to assume "green" is an end state - that there is some point at which you reach "green" - whereas we should be continually re-evaluating our choices and make the best choices we can based on known evidence and our cultural and geographic situtations."

when you buy vegetables, tofu made from soybeans grown in south america, anything in cans that were shipped using deisel engines, do you think you are being "green"? when you buy a quarter cow from a local farmer, I think you are being more "green" then.

Awww...thanks cicero!

Oops, hyzen, I went back and read what you said and I think I'm to blame for a poor understanding. You were fairly clear. My bad!

Yeah, what caiti said - anyone who claims "Well, the reality is, vegetarianism DOES = greener than eating meat" isn't looking deeply enough into the issues of how food is farmed and where it comes from.

I'm going to give the unpopular answer and say yes. Maybe not the *ultimate* green, but certainly green still. I like meat. And I'm allergic to corn (which is in everything), tomatoes, and oranges. So i really can't restrict my diet anymore. I am, however, very cautious about what farms my meat comes from. I think I'm lucky in that living in California affords me the option of buying meat from several ethical farms.

I also try to limit my meat intake, so it's not an everyday thing. I think everyone eating meat in more moderation could greatly reduce greenhouse emissions, but come on... we were made to be omnivires.

From my personally point of view is a BIG "NO".
I will share some videos below. Save the human, don't eat the planet.

Video:

If slaughter houses have glass walls everyone would be a vegetarian (must watch)

www.meat.org

GOOD PEOPLE, GOOD WORKS: Save the Human! Campaign - P1/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrO_gFK_pAE

GOOD PEOPLE, GOOD WORKS: Save the Human! Campaign - P2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhCR8qkEEXE

Thank you for watching, feel free to comment :)

Here is a good video on the subject: http://meat.org

What we need are fewer people. Maybe another plague?