apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

What is that picture of? I *heart* it!

Contact your condo board president!! There should be something in the bylaws that prevents an owner or resident from creating "noises or odors that emanate from the unit and interfere with the rights, comforts or conveniences of other owners". I am on the board at my building and the above is a direct quote from our bylaws.

I have the same problem, and it's because my apartment isn't properly sealed off around the plumbing and radiators and such. Since I'm a renter, they're taking their time getting around to fixing it. In your case, it probably wouldn't hurt to check, and maybe some silicone would help.

there was a post about this a while back, search for it.
the basic remedy (besides the legal) is to seal your radiators/vents properly. good luck.

In the meantime, vinegar helps get the cigarette smell out of things.

Being able to smell others' smoke inside of your own unit is most definitely a violation of the bylaws. If you find out where it is coming from, confront the unit owner and/or report them to the board so that they are fined for it. The board may very well have complaints of this already. Perhaps if they are concentrated in one particular area the problem could be targeted.

In the meantime, keep your exhaust fan running constantly or during those times you think are the heaviest.

My guess is that main extraction fan that the building uses to push the air from all the units outside of the building is not strong enough.

I'm also wondering if this is a year round occurrence. High-rises go through pressure changes in hot and cold months and this can sometimes affect ventilation. This is just a thought--I'm by no means an engineer.

I wonder if more people are smoking in their homes now that they cannot smoke in public places?

You can also consider changing your exhaust fan to a more powerful one. They make models that actually run constantly but you cannot hear them. The models that typically come standard in condos are usually the cheapest, weakest ones because people usually don't think about them, let alone think about upgrading them. Builders usually skimp on anything that they can in big buildings for obvious reasons--all of which have to do with saving their own money--but I digress.

This happened to me once. I found out that the medicine cabinet was an old one with one of those slots in the back to dispose of used razors. That opening was where all the smoke from my neighbor's bathroom was coming in. Sealed it up and it improved a lot.

Check previous discussions in AT. What does the condo board say?

Start documenting. Find out how the smoke is getting into your unit - gap behind the baseboard? wall plug? space at the bottom of the door? gaps around the pipes? You may need to insulate and seal gaps. Some people suggested adding air filter - I'd rather seal it out.

Is unwanted tobacco smoke drifting into your apartment or condominium? : information to protect tenants from exposure to second-hand smoke
http://www.smokefreeottawa.com/2006-en/pdfs/clean_air_brochure_v4.pdf

Blowing smoke http://www.canadian-health-network.ca/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1133700881736&pagename=CHN-RCS%2FCHNResource%2FCHNResourcePageTemplate&c=CHNResource

I have this problem in the apartment that I'm renting. An air purifier goes a long way towards mitigating the problem.

I am not sure what they are called but many hotels (especially in Japan) have these little machines that hooks into an electrical outlet and its supposed to filter the air out. We asked for connecting rooms at the Ginza Mercure and they only had smoking rooms - but promised us they would filter the room the night before our arival - sure enough the hallways smelled really smoky but as soon as we were in our rooms it was like a smoke-free oasis. I am VERY sensitive to cigarette smoke and I honestly couldn't smell anything. You could try googling this machine or looking on ebay?

We have previously moved out of an upstairs apartment TWICE before because the downstairs tenants were smokers. In the first instance the apartment managers adopted a "like it or lump it" approach, and the second place the management team fully supported us - but after the third or so phone call from us complaining about the neighbours smoking they got frustrated at us - unfortunately smoking is an addiction and when your neighbour feels the urge to light up they're going to smoke regardless of any by-laws, neighbour complaints etc. I really empathise with your situation...

I've been confronted by this once before. It is a major, major pain, particularly for an asthma sufferer like me.

I have a slightly different suggestion from those listed thus far.

1) I find that having a fan on (in my apartment the exhaust fan was very powerful and couldn't be turned off) is a major culprit. It is essentially creating a vacuum and sucking up the smoke from the neighboring apartment. I could feel a breeze coming into my apartment from the openings next to the plumbing, etc. So I'm not sure getting a stronger fan or keeping your fan on all the time is the solution.

2) Get some of that expanding foam sealer. I plugged every crack I could find with that stuff. Given the fan situation I could feel the draft of where air was coming into the apartment so that helped tell me what to plug. Note that the air can come in very strange places. The biggest culprit in my apartment was the fuse box. Air from the spaces between walls flooded into my apartment through the fuse box.

Most of all, good luck with it! Challenging problem.

Your bathroom actually fills with smoke? Like, visible smoke? I'd say your building has some serious ventilation/duct problems.

The easiest solution is to figure out who it is, explain the situation, and ask them to just not smoke in the bathroom. Seems like a reasonable request.

If you start out trying to pay hardball with fines and condo board complaints, you are probably just going to make things worse.

First talk to your neighbor. They may not know its causing you problems. I surprised that most here did not suggest this. The frist thing people want to do is get legal.

If after talking to them and this doesnt work then get legal if you can and good luck.

I had this problem in my last place. Unfortunately, my furnace air intake was in the lower level, as was the chain smoker's apartment. All winter long, my furnace sucked the smoke up and blew it into my apartment. All my clothes smelled, even when I left the house, all my possessions smelled, and I'm sure it took years off my life. It was awful, and my landlord was not supportive. I ended up moving. :(

Legally, you may or may not have a remedy. It's a debate in different jurisdictions whether cigarette smoke interferes with the "right to quiet enjoyment" that is guaranteed by your lease. If your building managers won't help, I would recommend consulting an attorney.

I agree that turning a fan on might only make things worse - it could suck more smoke into your unit. On the other hand, that could be useful for tracking down the source of the smoke.

Try having your home assessed for leaks by folks who install insulation. They'll hook up a super-powerful fan, typically to your front door (a blower door I think they're called) close all your other doors and windows, and use a little bit of smoke to see where air is leaking into/out of your unit. I'll bet anything there's a big gap somewhere in your bathroom that's letting your downstairs neighbor's smoke flood your condo. Plug that leak or those leaks up and the problem will go away (you may also save on your utility bills, and help to keep pests out of your home).

Call the anti-smoking Nazi's...they finish them off nicely.

I had this situation once. I bought some caulk and a caulking gun and went after every hole I could find. That improved the situation somewhat. I also purchased an air filter which helped a lot. Then they moved and I did my happy dance for about a week.

I also have the same problem. In my case my condo and the smoker's share the same duct from our bathroom exhaust fans (I plan to have that fixed).

I have a leaf blower that I inherited from my father that I use it to clean my balcony (I know its lazy, but it only takes 5 seconds). When I sense the smoke is coming through the bathroom vent I hook up the leaf blower, place the end directly on the vent, and give the old boy a taste of his own Metemucil.

My neighbor is a miserable old git who smokes Camels like a crackhead. He was absent during the weeks that I inspected the condo and appeared after one month of me moving in. He was in the hospital from a stroke, no doubt from a lifetime of nicotine addiction (he's 55 and looks 75). Now he sits home all day collecting disability and smoking.

I've caulked all the cracks, spoken to the Board and to the neighbor and have gotten nowhere. Once I even called the police to report a nuisance (how is poisonous smoke any more acceptable than loud music?) I am in NC and the attitude here is: It's legal for him to smoke and we won't say he can't. Short of hiring a lawyer and marching this geezer into court, I don't what else to do. My sister tries to comfort me with words of hope, "He will probably die soon..."

One day NC will catch up with the rest of the world. Good luck.

Thanks Sara48 for recommending the obvious. Have you thought about asking the neighbor to turn on his/her fan when s/he lights up in the bathroom? It's a difficult question to ask but worded correctly and invoking your own health concerns could prompt a nice open dialogue. If that doesn't work, I second/third/fourth the recommendations to go to the building management company or homeowners association. Worst case, spray some smelling, girly, flowerly air freshner into the air vent where you find the smoke coming from. It may smoke the smoker out of smoking near that vent again. (This is the passive aggressive way so use it last)

I have the same problem, but it's with people who smoke in the hallway... I may have to take dcarles advice and start spraying obnoxious room spray in the hall when they do it.

Thank God you're not MY neighbor. I smoke and I have big fabulous parties with fantastic wine and amazing food and anyone can have a cigarette whenever they want. I would be horrified to have you knock on my door and tell me my smoke was bothering you. I would tell you to open the windows and consider dedicating yourself to other green pursuits. And by the way, my apartment is lovely and I've yet to receive a complaint from any of my loud-mouthed guests. Yikes, you people want the government in your houses?!

No pugluv, the point isn't to invade the privacy of smokers and tell them how to live their lives in their "lovely" apartments. The point is to help someone avoid breathing in a known carcinogen from an adjacent apartment. Like it or not, cigarette smoke does carry health risks, no matter how annoying the message may be to hear.

Not only that, but there's something to be said about being considerate of not adversely affecting the environment of those around you. If your neighbors blasted loud music every morning at 5am, I'm quite sure you wouldn't be satisfied with a "go find some green pursuits" dismissal.

With all due respect: if your bathroom "fills with smoke" from another apartment (which I doubt very much is filled with smoke itself), I'd say you have a far greater problem than smoke on your hands...

To most people who commented: are you for REAL? ;)
On which planet do you live?! Why poor darlings, if smoke from another apartment provokes such fits in you I am sure you cannot even go outside!
Or does the exhaust emissions from cars (not to mention all the cr** that you eat every day) not bother you or affect your health all that much?

And SELEKTOR (interesting name...), I actually thought your comment was a joke, a parody. No, really - I did.

If it isn't, and it doesn't seem to be, after all, I will also say to you -(because I somehow doubt you have very many true friends who would tell you the truth): judging by the ugliness and hysteria such as you and your sister display, the "git" and "geezer" (why? because he smokes?) in the apartment is the LEAST of your problems...

i have to agree im a bit offended that people aren't allowed to smoke in their own homes. people have been forced out of what used to be politically correct places to smoke i.e., bars, and so they go back to the only place they can possibly smoke without people giving them the stink eye and now your trying to figure out some way to get them to stop doing it there?

no thank you, thank you for not smoking territorial puritans

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0CEFDC1E3AF937A25756C0A963958260

I used to have this problem, except it was a horrid cooking smell that would come in through the bathroom.

The solution: turn on the bathroom fan (this is different then turning on a fan somewhere in the apartment). Because the smell is coming through the exhaust, you want to pull it the other way.

Time to move.

A good advice from the Icelandic Fire Department, slice an onion and put on plates where the smell is(apartment or hallway) and the onion sucks up the smoking smell. This is used to get burn smell out of apartments and works very well. Also works after a heavy smoking party. And the smell of the onion fades away very quickly.

[ZENsucht said: the "git" and "geezer" (why? because he smokes?)]


You forgot "crackhead".

If you know who is smoking, how about knocking their door and letting them know the smoke fills up your apartment and ask them to stop. If that doesn't work then you can put something in writing to them and cc your board president. Take the issue to the top - you shouldn't have to come up with a bunch of remedies to clear someone else's stick to live comfortably in your own home.

SELEKTOR- Really? The police?

I feel for you! I had this problem in my apartment. My landlord was sympathetic (he had meant for it to be a nonsmoking apartment...long story, but it wasn't in the lease. Now it is.) and both he and I talked to my very non-sympathetic neighbor. She and her boyfriend were chainsmoking every time they were in the apartment and my apartment would not only smell of smoke, but there was a haze of it. She literally thought I was making it up. I spent a good deal of time stuffing backer rod and putty in the cracks in my baseboards--it helped somewhat, but not completely.

While I feel that it's unreasonable to be breathing in someone else's toxins, it's also a reality that unless there are specific covenants in your condo agreement, it will be difficult to enforce anything. I suggest getting a really good air filter, and doing what you can in your own home to seal places that are connecting--you'll have more options than I did because you own.

First line--talk to the neighbor. See what you can do to work it out. They might not know you're affected...and might be concerned. Then, take it from there...

Answer to people who are talking about having a right to smoke in their own apartments, etc--that right ENDS at your door. Once you start allowing your toxic air to migrate into others' spaces and lungs, you're affecting THEIR rights.

If it were up to me, cigarettes would be illegal...I'm so glad I never picked up that disgusting habit/addiction. I do feel bad for smokers...I know how hard it is to quit and it's really unhealthy. My former boss had emphysema and was on oxygen after years of smoking...his quality of life was severly diminished. And, he still smoked--with the oxygen nearby. Seriously, it's horrible.

Though--calling the police?...probably not a good idea. I think the DC police would laugh at me or something.

You should contact the landlord and have them rig up something. It's a structural issue that is his problem. People should be allowed to whatever they wish (within reason) in their homes. They pay rent just as you do.

I have the same problem, though all the smoky air really just gets into my linen closet. Consequently, no linens are stored there. I'm going to try the expanding foam idea. Thanks so much!!

I live in a dorm, and friends occasionally smoke in my room. I spray febreeze around and leave the windows open afterwards - perhaps a similar tactic, but with the addition of a fan, would help in your case.
And I think you should talk to your neighbor, or neighbors, if you don't know who, before getting into legalities. If you talk as one person to another, it helps.

@selektor,

the leaf blower is hilarious! I must try that sometime. I need a leaf blower first.

It's funny how passionate people get about their rights as smokers. I just don't think that some people understand that as a smoker you have the right to a non-smoking environment when you want it. But a non-smoker who doesn't want to live in a smoky environment cannot have that right when smoke infiltrates their apartment from a smokers apartment.

For instance, let's say someone who smokes cigarettes every day does not smoke when they are sick. In fact, when they are sick, the smell of smoke makes them nauseous. Then, during those few days when they are sick, cigarette odors fill their apartment from another unit while they are laying in bed. Would the smoker, who then becomes nauseous, believe in the idea of smoking so much that this would not bother them? Would they just muscle through it knowing that in a couple days they too will be able to smoke cigarettes and all will be well in the world?

I understand cigarette smoking is an addiction. I have no problem with it. But, if you are a smoker in a multi-unit dwelling and your smoke is getting into other people's units you should be prepared to be accountable for it. That's not to say that buildings should not also be culpable in situations like the one here where the smoke is obviously coming from an exhaust fan.

In multi-unit buildings, fines make a big difference. People don't like to throw money in the garbage. (they don't like to throw cigarette butts in the garbage either but that's another thread!)

I love these arguments.

As a smoker I feel it is my right to smoke in my condo which I own and to keep my toxic fumes in my own home. I clean up after myself when I am on my balcony and never smoke in common areas.

That said, if my neighbor had a problem I would do my best to accommodate their requests. I would install new door thresholds to top the smoke from coming out and try to figure out the problem. I would even go as far as to put towels in front of the door.

But the fact of the matter is. It is your home and you can do what you'd like in there. Just as you as a neighbor maybe the loudest person on earth or cook curry all day long or leave your garbage on your balcony or whatever it is that annoys people, buildings with more than one unit are plagued with issues. The best thing you can do is to really just pick your battles and calm down.

Remember, without our taxes we pay for cigarettes you would be paying substantially more sales taxes and god knows what else to support the city you live in.

I saw something about this on some tv news program a while ago. A couple sued their neighbor and the judge ordered the neighboring condo people can no longer smoke in their house. because it infringes on the rights of the people by interfering with their peace at home.

Be careful what you sue people for. Things could get a lot worse. Smoke could be the least of your worries.

Wow! A simple google search on cigarette smoke, violations and condo brings up a slew of information relating to multi unit buildings.

Sounds like this will be the next phase of tobacco control.

I just spoke with someone who said that they smoke at home now much more than they did before the public smoking ban in Chicago.

We need some of that Japanese air filtering technology in the States. There are air filters in Japan that can make cigarette smoke in places like casinos practically undetectable to the patrons. If smokers had these units in their apartment this problem would not exist.

Here's a research article on AC nonthermal plasma reactors used to remove the main odor components in cigarette smoke.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/28/20592/00952520.pdf?arnumber=952520

Sounds crazy but so did the idea of the internet.

Preserve the tradition of smoking but embrace the technology of the future!

I found out within days after closing on our condo that our downstairs neighbor was noisy and a smoker, which were the 2 main reasons we two asthmatics moved from our previous apartment. Asking her nicely to turn down the stereo didn't help, so we didn't bother mentioning the smoke smell for fear of it getting worse. I found we have very little legal recourse, but most of our leaks are due to renovations by previous owners.

The expanding foam (The Great Stuff is what we used) helped plug leaks around pipes (in the heating closet and under sinks), and made a huge difference in the smell. You might have a chunk of missing drywall behind your bathroom cabinet like we did (also patched with the foam). If you can narrow it down to a specific room and then a specific part of the room (i.e., it smells more near the floor than up high when they first start smoking), it's easier to find the leaks.

We clear out smells quickly by opening windows on opposite sides of our unit, then closing them and turning on our HEPA air purifier.

A flooring contractor just told us to also pull up the baseboards and use silicone around the edges of our living room. They said anywhere a floor meets an outside wall can be a likely place for leaks. That's our next step. Good luck!!!

This (is currently) happening to me in my own personal NYC rental slum. I've tried everything from contacting the super (who I found out WAS doing the smoking in the basement under my 1st floor apartment, regardless of my insistence that he was triggering my (albeit false) asthma); contacting the landlord; calling the owner. No change. Everyday, I can actually SEE the smoke rising from out of the baseboards into my living room and bedroom.

My new tactic? Utter tacklessness. When I smell smoke, I pound on the basement door with whatever is available, make as much noise as I can, LOUDLY express my distaste for inconsiderate smokers, and threaten to call the health department.

Next step? Withholding my rent. In exchange for turning over to them nearly 70% of my wages, I'm guaranteed (says my lease) a safe place to live.

PS: My neighborhood has the highest incidence of pediatric hospitalization for asthma. In the country.

For the smokers who do not understand. When I lived in the burbs, my neighbor change smoked in a little corner all day. The wind brought the smell over to my garden. So I was outside in the "fresh" air trying to grow flowers to smell and instead I smell stale smoke all day. All she does is smoke all day. (on welfare, but that's beside the point)
I do have asthma and she isn't "hurting" me, but man I get tired of not being able to get away from the smoke. I want to be outside to get some fresh air and I can't, I can't open my windows, I can't sit outside and read.

I had a basement apt. that filled with smoke from the people upstairs. They started with cigs, then changed to pot. My poor cat looked high. I had to tell them to open the windows and they refused. I told them if they didn't air out the house, I was going to call the police to help them air out the house. They did pretty quick after that.
It was a two story house that was filled from attic to basement with smoke. The only one I could smell was cigs, but the way they and my cat acted I am sure it was both.

Now think of that. They smoked enough to fill 10,000 cubic feet (at a guess) with smoke. How on earth is that fair? Why do smokers have to be so rude?

BTW Cars do not smell as intense, and no one has ever asked me if I have been walking downtown an hour after doing so. After leaving a smoking allowed club, someone asked me when I started smoking. Those clothes will smell like smoke until I wash them. It lingers forever. I rode in a van with a smoker for 10 hours. My clothes in my suitcase smelled like smoke.

You can't smell it because you are covered in it all of the time. Even your bath towels are covered in it. As soon as you are clean, you cover yourself in the smoke again.

To the first poster who asked what that picture was...it is a lung ashtray

I'm with Pugluv....My advice would be to open your balcony window....and jump.

I'm wondering why Cally feels it's necessary to mention her neighbor is on welfare when it has nothing to do with her smoky garden.

Wow, some of these comments - are you kidding me? Nonsmokers really shouldn't have to deal with smokers' nasty carcinogenic stink just because certain smokers (definitely not all smokers, just a select crappy few) can't be bothered to worry about anyone else but themselves.

This is such an easy problem to fix. Fresh air is pumped into the hall ways / corridor from outside. This creates pressure; that pressure has to go somewhere. It enters the units underneath and beside the entry door. If your neighbor’s door is letting in more air than yours, then they will be at a higher pressure. Because you will be at a lower pressure then your neighbors the smoke smell will come into your unit. Plugging holes, buying extra fans etc etc wont do shit... You need to let more air enter your unit to increase the pressure. Contact an air balance engineer. Yellow pages...Problem solved.