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I've seen stories on the news about this. I'm not saying it's incredibly serious (especially if it isn't affecting her day to day functioning) but it's an actually recognized condition. You need to understand that she's probably pretty powerless over it and get some information on compulsive hoarding syndrome. She may, or may not, have it. But start here: http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/about-hoarding/compulsive-hoarding-syndrome-introduction.php

The first, easy suggestion: Rent a storage facility, and urge your wife to move her unused stuff there. That way, she still _has_ it, but it's out of the way.

The second, less-easy suggestion: Read up on "collectors." People who never throw anything away. People who accumulate and accumulate out of what they _think_ is thrift, but isn't. The extreme versions are people with houses stuffed full of ancient newspapers with thin goat-trails between the teetering piles.

Sorry if this isn't polite, but this could become a severe problem for you and your wife.

My partner has a less extreme case of this - no trouble getting rid of actual garbage, but much too much of a hoarder to cull everything needed for us to live together in a city apartment happily. We resolved this issue by getting a storage space for all the things we can't fit but she can't let go of. Although it costs $100 a month, it's saved us so many arguments and probably much more money for couples therapy.

I agree with ThatGrrl. If it's bad enough that it's causing conflict, your wife probably needs some counseling. Maybe you two should go together.

My aunt has the same problem and over the years it has gotten so bad, her house is now crammed with stuff and in some rooms there is no walking space at all. Her husband has always had one room which is "his," and she's not allowed to put anything in there or go in there. But this is not a good solution since the rest of the house is completely unusable.

I'd be a little cautious about labeling this a mental disorder. It does sound like she is attached to these items for some reason. The best approach may be to find out why this attachment exists and then discuss it in a compassionate manner.

I second kjb's answer. There's a reason she's holding onto these things and she may not even know what that is. Presenting the problem to her in a respectful and non-judgemental way gives her an opportunity to explore her own reasonings for her behaviour.

Check out Hoarding
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hoarding/DS00966

"Hoarding is the excessive collection of items that seem to have limited or no value, such as newspapers or trash, along with the inability to discard them. Hoarding creates such cramped living conditions that entire rooms may be filled to capacity, and homes may be left with only narrow pathways winding through stacks of clutter."

It's an obsessive compulsive behavior. I know this seems harsh, but I would see a professional about this, unless it's something you can live with.

My mother in law is a pack rat. She has rooms that you can't walk into and goes to the veteran's thrift shop every Tuesday when it's half off for seniors and buys more crap she doesn't need "because it's such a good deal".

The scary thing is, I see this trait more and more with my husband. He started collecting Tiki Mugs. That's fine, they are cute. But now he has so many that they are rows deep on the shelf and you can only see the ones at the front any way. He doesn't hang on to junk, so much, but he buys more and more and more collectibles and decorative items.

I'm afraid that he'll end up a total pack rat like his mother.

If she's willing, but just can't seem to make it happen, start with some very small but doable rules. Like tossing 5 broken things every day. Just 5. Let her pick, but make it together. If she absolutely can't do that, then it's a bigger problem than arguing about it. Get professional help.

Peter Walsh, Peter Walsh, Peter Walsh. Read his books first, FINISH them before you approach your wife again.

Start with "It's All Too Much: An Easy Plan for Living a Richer Life with Less Stuff" this book concentrates more on the physical stuff. Then read "Enough Already!: Clearing Mental Clutter to Become the Best You". This concentrates more on the mental part that will give your wife insight on who she is trying to avoid being. It also has many thought provoking questions that will help you deal with this problem.

Your wife's problems have nothing to do with the "stuff" but with the memories they invoke.

I have a feeling the writer has already tried talking to his wife in a "respectful and non-judgemental way," but she is not compromising. He sounds like he wants to find a solution and is desperate for help, and I'm not sure the next solution is to have another talk with her to figure out her behavior.

Get a counselor. Even if she does not have a neurotic disorder, this is a good way for both of you to discuss this issue in front of a neutral and non-judgemental observer.

People who rationalize hoarding as "thrifty behavior" need help. If your wife were really "thrifty" she would never even accumulate and consume all those things in the first place. True thrifty behavior is real thrift -- restraint in what we bring into our lives and our homes in the first place.

I have the same issue with my partner - it's an ongoing process to deal with. I found that a big part of it is the idea of thrift ("I'll use this someday!") and waste ("why throw it all into the landfill?"). To deal with this, I have a huge Goodwill box. It's still difficult parting for the hoarder, but at least he knows the stuff is going to use. For the stuff in the box that IS trash, I throw it away or recycle it when I take the box to Goodwill (out of sight out of mind). I always make a big trip there after we buy anything new for the house.

Occasionally, I try DIY artsy projects with stuff he refuses to part with so it's something nice to hang on the wall instead of clutter the closet.

She definitely has a problem. Like others said, I don't think it's necessarily a life or death thing, but I think most "problems" people have tend to be a result of a bigger underlying issue that she most likely needs counseling for... plus, left untreated, it could possibly get worse.

While none of us can really know what your situation is really like, but if it's not truly hoarding, a few things that come to mind are:

- Tell her, calmly, that the sheer amount of satuff/clutter is affecting your mental/emotional well-being. My husband has come to understand that most of the time I just think he's being grumpy - if something is really bothering him, he needs to make it clear without getting angry at me. I'm not trying to say that you haven't been telling her it's a problem, but maybe she doesn't understand that it's more than just "the thing you complain about".

- If she wants to try to get rid of some stuff but feels overwhelmed or anxious about parting with it, maybe try getting some medium-sized moving boxes and filling and dating them 1 or 2 at a time for a while. When each box is full, YOU should get to put it somewhere for however long (a month, three months, whatever). If she realizes there is something in the box that she wants/needs, she has to ask you to go and get it (to prevent her from realizing that she needs everything else in the box, too) and come up with a compelling reason why she needs that (i.e., why she needs the old waist-pack rather than one of the five new ones).

- Create some kind of challenge to get something that she really wants. Like if she'd like to have a workout space/crafting space/reading nook/any other space in the house, the two of you will set it up IF she can get rid of an equal volume of stuff.

I really had a compulsion to keep most things for a long time. I had moved into my first apartment and brought EVERYTHING with me from my parent's house. Even if it's not to the point where it's a true mental disorder, it's a hard habit to break.

And here is the wildly scary documentary on hoarding - http://www.vimeo.com/603058

sorry, but anyone who keeps kitchen packets from mcdonalds definitely has a problem with hoarding. i don't see how these packets could be about memories they invoke. i would have real difficulties if my partner hoarded stuff like this and would definitely seek out counseling.

Rent the video "Grey Gardens" and let her see a real life example of what hoarding and disarray can become. On a more serious note, she really does need help. This isn't healthy. I'm pretty flaky and lean always to the side of being offbeat and out of the norm, but i also know the difference between reasonably healthy and behaviors that are signals of real problems. If you weren't there the chances are good that she would be suffocating in her "stuff." Since i do believe that all relationships are a two way street i would urge you to look at individual therapy as well as couples counseling to sort out the why's and who's.

While I won't presume to know your wife's motivations, I do recommend that you yourself talk to a professional to get some additional advice about what you can do.

I'm going to be moving from my fully "cured apartment" into a house that has been in my family for over 60 years. My poor father (who isn't a young man) and my brother are currently clearing out the space from the two hoarders that previously lived there (my aunt and grandmother) before I arrive in two months. The items are similar to what you describe--inexpensive stuffed animals, fake flowers, magazines, etc. I'm sure my boyfriend and I will also be addressing the problem for months after we arrive.

I'll reiterate what earlier posters have said--there is probably a root cause to this behavior--there certainly was in the case of my grandmother.

If not dealt with in a constructive way, the situation will not improve and likely worsen. I sympathize, and encourage you to seek counsel beyond the apartment therapy community (wonderful though it may be) to help your spouse.

Just taking the stuff out isn't going to help - this is going to take a long talk about you two only keeping things you need and things you seriously want. But as some will tell you - you married her knowing she's a collector, so you can't really whine now.

I would get help from a professional organiser, who I am sure deals often with people who don't want to let go of their stuff. Tell her how important this is for you, and for you as a couple.
I think it might help if it is someone from outside that tells her she would feel better and not lose anything if she let's go of these things. Often it is easier to let someone who is not your spouse or friend help you or tell you things you don't really want to hear.

One other idea, which I use with my 8-year-old:

Would she notice if you just "did away" with some things? I put unused stuff in boxes in the basement (has to go in a box out of sight). She never notices that something is not in her room, but if she sees the stuff in the basement she MUST have it back upstairs again. After I'm sure it's safe I throw the stuff out.

I know this isn't respectful, but in our case it's the parting with stuff is the problem rather than a need to have it.

concentrating on all of this stuff takes time and energy she is not using on other things. it can be like any excessive beahviour people use to ignore, deny and otherwise keep at bay unpleasant feelings; things typically with roots in the past. if she worked all the time, you might be complaining she was never around, but the effect would likely be the same, you know? as someone who's seen a great psychiatrist off and on, i tend to think of the generic "counselor" as a bandaid, someone who might deal with the topical problem, but not the obviously deep roots and connections this problem has for your wife. imho, establishing rules about organizing or getting rid of stuff aren't going to do anything to solve the problem, just delay it. i'd go for the heart of it and firmly suggest that if she wants to heal herself and support her marriage, that you both go see a psychologist or psychiatrist. the great thing is, it's fixable if she's willing. =)

I completely disagree with those who think this woman is saving ketchup packets and pulling things out of the garbage for sentimental reasons. It's obvious that she has a problem letting go of anything.

10 years of this? Oy vey. Your wife and you need to go to counseling, stat. Neither her hoarding nor your resentment over this behavior are not going to be resolved by renting more space for her to fill up.

timmy jr- I am not a hoarder, but I do keep ketchup packets. I like ketchup and sometimes, ya know, ya just want it at room temperature. Or on the go. I do throw out packets of spicy mustard though. I'll never use that.
Just sayin'.

Let me second the suggestion of inhuma26: Goodwill, charity drives, homeless shelters (for food), even consignment shops are also good ways to get mild collectors and hoarders to let go of things. It also does become easier over time as they notice they don't really miss the stuff once it's gone.

My grandfather grew up in a desert wasteland during the great depression. Everything that came down the arroyo during the rainy season was kept and used - to the point where houses were built with the driftwood. As a result of this survival behavior he had, my mother holds on to everything and rarely will throw things away - including mcdonalds packets.
This is something that people do when they've been raised in poverty. It is not OCD, because honestly, if it were, she'd have other symptoms beyond simply hoarding.
Don't know if that applies to your wife, but keep your mind open to why she might be compelled to hold on to things, and try to get her to figure it out for herself as well. Recommending going to a counselor or psychologist is insulting. Period. She can figure things out on her own and you can help her figure things out. It will strengthen your relationship in the long run.

This is something to take very seriously, because it is more fatal to a marriage than infidelity. (I believe it is Stumbling Into Happiness that talks about this.)

You may have to move out for a while and find out if she prefers the ketchup packets to you. Low level constant stress is incredibly debilitating. What you probably want to find is a therapist who will each both of you individually as well as together as a couple, and who is willing to make your wife see that she must change if she wants to stay in the marriage.

i'm sorry, barbara. I strongly disagree with the idea of just "doing away" with somethings without the person's knowledge. While this can be effective for an 8 year-old, it does (as you acknowledged) seem to be disrespectful for a grown adult. It also does not address the problem in any real way, and makes the husband a person who has to perform "covert operations" in his own house to get rid of the stuff. That is no way to live! The poor guy. It would also only breed more anger/resentment between the couple, especially if the wife was to find out this was happening.

This situation, as many have said, should be discussed between him and his wife, with a counselor. This is a long-ingrained behavior that is not going to be resolved with one heartfelt conversation. Good luck to you, Dave.

It's a mental illness. Personally, illness or not, I don't quite get why people put up with this crap. Sooner or later she's going to leave the house (grocery shopping, work, something). I'd just hire some trash men and make a clean sweep of all the crap. Sure she'll be upset. Sure it's juvenile. It also gets rid of 10 years of crap that has been making the house a pigsty. I'd keep doing it at least once a year. You can't make her "get help", but you can make sure you don't have to live in her illness.

Marriage counselor. Trial separation. Possible divorce. It doesn't matter what the issue is, as soon as you have "10 year... boiling over with anger... don't know how much more I can take" you are talking about serious serious issues.

The stuff is just a symptom. The issue is obviously deeper rooted. Even if it were just "sentimental" reasons, the wife has a behavior that is poisoning her relationship with her husband. If she can't see that and work out a solution the relationship is doomed.

My grandmother used to be a hoarder. The main floor of her house was kept fairly tidy, but her basement was a maze of teetering six foot towers of plastic bags stuffed with flattened packaging from cereal, cookies, crackers, huggies, toothpaste, etc. and buried underneath it all was every vintage piece of home decor and toy my dad and aunts and uncle had every grown up with. My grandmother would slowly get around to cutting out the UPC labels from the packaging and send them to the manufacturer in order to redeem free stuff and coupons to buy more products from which she could hoard the packaging. It was a neverending circle. Finally, my dad got fed up with it and starting to secretly haul bags of the stuff off to the dump. It didn't take very long for my grandmother to notice and when she did it was not pretty. Not long after, she got into Longaberger baskets and decided (on her own terms) that she wanted to clear out the basement in order to make room for an office from which she could schedule basket parties and grow as a seller.

Your wife may need some creative outlet that she can dedicate her free time and energy towards rather than using it all towards making sure you don't throw any of her stuff away. And, if she gets into a hobby, odds are that she's going to need to clear a space for it.

If her issue is with feeling wasteful, maybe the two of you can go through everything and recycle whatever is too junky for anyone to want (like the mismatched easter egg), give away whatever someone might find useful (the waist pack), and sell whatever might still hold some value (the broken Volvo). Craigslist comes to mind.

I hope my anecdote is of inspiration and that any ideas that the community has thrown out there are helpful. =)

I know a couple like this (although the genders are reversed, it's the husband that hoards - everything, old cardboard boxes, broken blinds, etc...). When they were moving recently, she decided she wasn't moving all the crap. So she would pretend to go to work and then after he left the house she would double back and then take boxes to the dump. He didn't notice during the move (because they can't keep track of all that stuff) and has since started accumulating new piles in the new place.

For a mental health question, you're seriously turning, after 10 years of the problem, to the commenters on AT?

I would suggest couples counseling too, if you are a minimalist (like you say) is it possible you are also over reacting a little?
I admit that saving plastic Easter eggs seems a pretty silly, and hoarding can become a serious condition. But the two of you need to work this out, you have to be willing to change and accept some of her stuff too.
I would suggest something like this blog, http://unclutterer.com/2009/04/28/uncluttered-aphorisms/, or an organizational book, something that the two of you can do together that will help at least with the organization of the house. If all the 'junk' is piled up in one place maybe it will help her see that she doesn't need all this stuff.
This website helps me and my get organized, and lose my emotional attachment to a LOT of crap. There are things to keep for sentimental reasons, and then there is clutter that can fill and disorganize your life.
If this is a 'thrifty' thing organization can help too. Knowing where the ONE extra 'just in case' REI waste pack is might help her let go of the others.

It's the digging through the trash and the saving of everything down to ketchup packets, those things strike a chord with those of us who know a hoarder. My husband has a hoarder in his family. The person has filled his house and a late relative's house with all manner of junk, so that there's only narrow little pathways from the main living areas. There are some rooms that are completely inaccessible thanks to the accumulated detritus. The roof is leaking, the walls are mold covered and falling apart, you can't get to plumbing, electric, etc.

Hoarding is a real mental illness. Simply throwing things away without the permission of the hoarder (which you will never get) often results in an unreasonable rage. If your wife is afflicted with this disorder (which is the first thing to determine) only therapy might curb the problem. Unfortunately hoarders are notoriously hard to "cure", but it's possible to keep the symptoms to a dull roar if the condition is caught early and aggressively treated. I sincerely hope your wife is not afflicted with this condition as it's miserable for all involved, including the hoarder.

http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/

Maybe Dave should let his wife read the comments here some of which are quite sensible. Presumably she has heard of compromise or does she love 'stuff' more than Dave?

my husband, while not a hoarder per se, has an odd and frustrating mindset that clothes and other items that he has not used in 10 years should be held on to because "I paid good money for that!". This man was still hanging on to khakis and basketball shoes from 1990, *just in case* he might need them. When we moved in together, it took a lot of arguing and finally a long long talk to get him to let go of 8 trashbags full of old clothes. This is what helped us:
1. Thinking through how he's gotten his money's worth, and how to make the best use of it now. Selling on craigslist, donating to goodwill for tax credits, giving to a homeless shelter were all ways to get that random item out there and used again.

2. Making sure he saw that I was cleaning out stuff too, that it wasn't just me clearing out his stuff.

3. Setting a deadline. Now when his pack-rat mom sends him home with old toys from the 80s (like an entire Smurf Village from 1983! WTF), hubby gets 1 month to find something to do with it. Otherwise it's got to go.

4. And this probably makes me a bad wife, but I totally sneak ratty things into the goodwill bag when he's away for the weekend. He never misses them!

The storage space idea is good. Book a truck/van so the two of you have a deadline to pack the stuff that isn't being used on a regular basis. Maybe this includes some of your stuff, too, in the spirit of compromise. Ideally the space would require a check to be made out and sent each month, not an automatic payment--make it as cumbersome as possible, and make it her responsibility to make the payments. Encourage her to sort and label everything for "easy retrieval". The sheer effort involved in physically moving the stuff & making the payments (not to mention the long-term costs) may allow her to determine she doesn't really need the stuff.

Another idea: could you hire a housekeeper as a "gift"? For some people--myself included--nothing kick-starts the desire to clean/purge than a deadline and the potential embarrassment of someone seeing every nook and cranny as-is!

I'm pretty sure that you're not going to get her to see a therapist by insisting that she has a psychological problem, even if that is the case. Warranted though it may be, the amount of anger in the original post suggests that you might both benefit from sitting down together with an unbiased third party to find out how to deal with this in a loving & compassionate way.

The primary issue here is one of control and struggling to find the balance in the relationship.

My guess is that both partners in this relationship feel out of control in other areas of their lives.

Trying to sneak her things into the trash is controlling. Her holding onto all of these things is controlling.

Relationship counseling for sure. Anyone who thinks the problem is hers and hers along is mistaken.

Short term....I like the idea of, "Let's go through this drawer together and see what we don't need." I also like the idea of asking her to help you decide which five things can be tossed out each day.

Good luck to both of you.
xoxo

I'm with Donald, this is not the appropriate place to address a spouse's issues. It's not like you can actually go "look honey, everyone on AT thinks you're nuts! I win the 10-year fight and you're a psycho!"

I agree with everyone that this IS a serious - but treatable - problem, but I thought inject a little humor here with George Carlin's views on STUFF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

I have some hoarding tendencies. I have OCD and my grandparents, who I am very close to, all lived through the depression. My grandmother was (and still is, though she is really not mobile anymore at age 90) truly thrifty and very clean and tidy. But she had places where she saved things - string, clothespins, old jars, license plates, and cool old advertisements. She didn't have a lot of knicknacks but she still has lots of pictures.

I am struggling really hard with clutter right now. My house has no closets and we are renovating. My husband collects lots of crap but he is good about purging stuff.

I'm "curing" one space at a time in my home and I find that when I am in the right mood, I can part with things.

A book that has truly helped me is "Zen Speaks: Shouts of Nothingness." It is an accessible way to change your whole outlook.

My challenge is that it is so much work to get rid of stuff responsibly. It all ends up crammed on my porch.

The first problem I see with this question is the lack of respect for your wife's point of view. The argument goes: I'm a minimalist, she hoards, ergo she needs to change. You feel she has no respect for your space, but you show her equal disrespect for her possessions. Whether they're diamonds or ketchup packets, it's not your place to decide how valuable or acceptable they are.

My boyfriend and I have a rule: whoever has the problem with the other first looks at himself, decides how he can fix it without bothering the other, and THEN confronts the other person. Perhaps you carve out a safe space in your own home where you have nothing, a place of respite. If you ARE concerned about your wife, you sit down and share your concerns.

But so far, it sounds like you're only concerned about bending her to your will. Not so hot for making a relationship work.

This goes way beyond interior design. You and your spouse need some marriage counseling. It won't be enough for her to get therapy... You need to get help together.

I'm going to echo the "therapy" advice everyone else has given. If, after 10 years of the husband complaining, she hasn't made any attempt to work on the situation (not implying that she's in the wrong, just that often a complaint opens a dialog, and clearly there's not enough of that here), it really is a problem.

I have a friend whose mother hoards. She had to go back home to help her parents move out of the family home, and weeded through all their stuff. That's when she learned that not only was her mom hoarding, but her dad enabled. This is something to think about - is there any way the husband's behaviors might be enabling the wife to hoard? It's unlikely that her actions occur entirely within a vacuum and she is the only one responsible.

On that note, I would recommend not only individual therapy for the wife to work through the hoarding issues, but couples therapy to open up a dialog. It could be a safe place that gives the husband the chance to say, "what you're doing really hurts /annoys / frustrates me," and for her to say, "but this is why I'm doing it," or "I didn't realize how much this was affecting you."

Either your wife is a pack rat, which she can control, or she's a "hoarder," which is considerably more involved.

If your wife has "irrational" attachments to items, then it's the latter. If not, it's the former.

Either way, seeing a professional together to discuss the matter wouldn't hurt. Just be sure to have CLEAR goals communicated, i.e. I want to clean out every single closet in the house.

Just a thought!

What a weirdly inappropriate question for discussion here. The right bookshelves, arranged just so, aren't going to solve anything.

Dave,
You should take your wife to a couple's therapist and also help her find individual treatment. One of the reasons some people "hoard" things like you mention is that in their mind, they need those things to actualize their future selves - in other words, she's not living, she's saving to live later and these things she is saving are her tools for better living in the future; if she doesn't have things she can't be as successful. Sounds like you want to live now. Its not going to improve by fighting over decor styles, or by you carving out your own room. She might not be understanding how unhappy this makes you and she might not understand how far from normal her behavior is. I think you should go with the flow here and seek therapy, because whether she has the medical condition or not, you need communication facilitation if you've been feeling like this for 10 years and haven't been able to come to an accomodation with each other.

Hi Dave,

Her behavior indeed ressemble one of a hoarder. First, you must know by now that her behavior won't just 'go away' and you, on your own, will not be able to 'fix it'. That mean seeking professional help, to help her first (the old adage of 'realizing that one has a problem is the first step to recovery, is essential).

Second, sadly, with those types of illness/issues/problems/symptoms/behavior, getting rid of the stuff for her = bad. It will traumatise her, aggravate your relationship and believe me, she will just fill the whole house again...

I really urge you to seek professional help. First it might be easier for you to do so and then to get her in the process...

I hope things get better; but you should really go seek some professional advice.

Don't be too harsh on Dave for asking for help here. This problem is not commonly recognized for what it is: mental illness. She's not a packrat. She doesn't need organizing tips. She needs medical help.

It's very hard for people who've never lived/loved someone like this to really understand. I'll bet most of the posters above who are giving Dave the correct advice have done so.

Have you ever heard of the tv show Clean House? http://www.mystyle.com/mystyle/shows/cleanhouse/

I don't know if it would really help you, but they deal with this problem on a lot of the episodes, and they seem to really help the person with the hoarding problem sometimes.

There have been some pretty grand statements made based on the comments of a self-acknowledged minimalist. I had a neighbor in which the husband thought the wife "saved" too much... current magazines on the coffee table, toys (broken) that the kids still played with.

There is clearly anger and conflict so I agree with those that suggested counseling... for BOTH the husband and wife. Maybe there is some "fixing" that needs to take place on both sides.

Dave,

I am sorry that you are struggling with this issue. The immediate problem that I see is not the hoarding, but that you are boiling over with anger after 10 years of this situation. You need to do whatever it takes to become calm again. That may be as extreme as moving out, or as simple as renting a storage unit and some movers.

You can only control your behavior, not your wife's. Only you know if you were just venting to AT, or if this really is that much of a problem in your relationship. Your situation is no different than if your wife were doing other behaviors intolerable to you, and only you know how intolerable it really is. Whether us AT readers think she is hoarding or not is completely irrelevant.

Take control of yourself first and foremost. Please get professional coping help for yourself before you try to change your wife's behavior.

I wish you peace.

Joanna

I agree with all the other comments about getting into counseling and reading up on obsessive-compulsive hoarding.

It sounds like the issues are fairly deep-seated and you are beyond frustrated with wanting/needing to be heard and respected with regards to your living arrangement. A counselor will work with you on making your needs heard by your wife, and will work with her to figure out why things seem to mean more to her than people.

I don't suggest that you just go around chucking stuff though. This usually leads to more hoarding behavior.

A good book to read is "Buried in Treasures: Help for Compulsive, Acquiring, Saving, and Hoarding" by David F. Tolin, Randy O. Frost, and Gail Steketee

First we don't have the whole picture - this is just a peek through a window. My first thought was she's hoarding but then I had to read it again - she thinks these things have sentimental value or there's good reason for keeping things. For instance the car - it could've been her first, maybe the car has been paid off, what if someone special gave her that car that isn't here anymore? It's been 10 years and he's still condones what she's doing.

I think the suggestions thus far are valid and typical, but still something just doesn't sit right with me on this. I read frustration and anger, like after a big fight, but I don't see anything about previous attempts to fix the problem - sit down talk, family intervention, compromise... this is puzzling.

I'm with those who think AT is a completely inappropriate forum for this. I also see something very fishy in the original question-- we've got a chorus of blame for the wife and lots accusations of mental illness without hearing any story from her side, and there is no description of positive steps taken by the husband to address this issue in the original post. Furthermore, while hoarding can be a horrible problem, having old junk in the attic and keeping ketchup packets is NOT necessarily pathological. Keeping ketchup packets for ten years and not using them is... but we don't know that this is what's happening here. This whole post does not belong on AT.

I think it's time for counseling too... Unfortunately, people who hoard never really get over the urge to do this. I've fought it for a good portion of my life; my mother was a hoarder and my grandmother was a hoarder, not just for sentimental things as a reader above suggests, but for little things that "Might" come in handy one day. If anything, a clinical diagnosis of whether or not she may have some form of OCD may go a long way to not only improve your relationship, but help her stay fit mentally as well.

Each of you has a higher purpose for your preference of holding onto stuff or letting stuff go, a purpose which goes beyond merely "to feel safe" and "to have space."

If you look boldly and deeply enough together, you might find that you both have the same or very similar higher purpose -- a purpose which can be fulfilled without either of you feeling like you can't get the results you want. I'm not talking about compromise, either (I find compromise overrated); I'm talking about BOTH of you getting the results you want. You just might have to be flexible about finding out what it is that's your heart's desire, beyond what looks like your obvious concern here.

You can start by asking yourself: what is the purpose of being a minimalist? What is the purpose of THAT? and so on. And ask your wife to ask herself the same question, over and over again, until you find the point of intersection --- and there will be one.

You might want to consult an NLP practitioner to guide you through this process. It can be a really amazing thing to do for your relationship.

Best wishes in that.

(p.s... my boyfriend and I handle a similar issue by living next door to each other.)

For everyone who says just throw it out anyways you might want to reconsider. That will probably cause a divorce because he might not know what his wife really wants to hold onto and what just make be a family keepsake, which will not only make her upset but will hurt her in a way he can NEVER fix.

The only person we can change is ourselves. Though you can tell your wife how her behavior makes you feel, you can't change her behavior only she can do that. You, on the other hand, do have the power to change how you feel about this issue. Please look into help for yourself. Your unaddressed anger will eventually destroy more than your marriage. I wish you peace.

"My boyfriend and I have a rule: whoever has the problem with the other first looks at himself, decides how he can fix it without bothering the other, and THEN confronts the other person."

This is wonderful behavior.

My ex and I had a pattern: I'd get upset about something, express my frustration to him, he'd clam up. I, thinking he had not heard or understood my frustration, would go on and on, sometimes getting louder. He would get more passive. You can imagine the cycle. I wonder if there might be some of that going on with this couple.

People who save condiment packets are not necessarily nuts, or hoarders. They may be extremely thrifty, or they may just get frustrated that the pizza guy seldom brings enough cheese/pepper packets, so they save the extras (like my 20-y/o son). They may be like me, who uses the red pepper flakes in my plants to ward off cats. Or they may be like my Depression-survivor aunt, who empties salt packets into her salt shaker. Why throw away perfectly good salt? She's got the time to do this; I don't. It's also nice to have seasoning packets on hand for camping. Point is, there are lots of possible reasons for that particular behavior.

Now, my mother--that's another story. When Dad was alive, she saved cardboard boxes. ("You never know when you're going to need a good box"--and god forbid you should have to buy one--gotta say, paying for boxes does kinda chap me.) Now that he's gone, she buys jewelry on HSN.

Anyhoo, TMI, but children of the Depression and children of children of the Depression can have some deep-seated issues around the ideas of 'scarcity' and 'abundance'. I hope the couple will go to counseling, but if she won't be led to water, he should go ahead without her.

My mother is the thriftiest person I know. She saves, reuses, and repurposes items that most people would toss, including (yes) ketchup packets and gift bags.

But this woman (if the husband is describing her accurately) does not sound like she's merely thrifty as some in this thread have suggested.

My mother is thrifty, but she doesn't save stuff that could have no possible value or use. Everything she does save goes into its place and is actually used. Her house is a bit cluttered, but not filled to the brim with 'stuff'. There's a difference between thrifty and what this woman seems to be.

I was thinking of Clean House on the style network too. The people on that show are usually excessive hoarders, savers, shoppers, or collectors. (Who knew so many grown men collect stuffed animals?) And usually you can see the strain in the relationships among the various family members caused by living like that. There is a lot more going on than just clutter.

Thankfully neither of my parents were hoarders in any real sense as both were able to get rid of stuff as needed although up until my Mom downsized after my Dad died, she used to hold onto small boxes and other boxes of varying sizes and shapes, including shirt boxes and the like for they often got reused for Christmas and/or birthday etc gifts.

I will sometimes save certain boxes for using to store more delicate Christmas items etc in that only get used durin certain times of the year as they do make good storage containers for such things and occasionally hold onto small boxes for wrapping gifts, just a few and only later in the year when it's closer to Christmas and I DO buy boxes but I've found some of the smaller square boxes that aren't pouches, shirt boxes are difficult to find for say an ornament. I used to be an avid collector of Pyrex ColorWare(tm) for a while but haven't bought much in recent years.

As to this couple, sounds like some major issues going on, perhaps on both sides but the wife's hoarding things like a broken down Volvo and battered old fanny packs when she has others sounds like someone who can't part and it's this extra cruft that can't be rid of that seems to be the crux of the issue here and it may well require that they get counseling to see if she indeed has something akin to a mental illness or something else.

Hope all gets resolved one way or the other.

http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/hoarding.shtml

The best part of this thread are the self-styled enlightened types who are all "if being forced to trip over 800 magazines from 1983 bothers you, you need to take a deep look in the mirror and find yourself, man."

I seriously doubt the hippie contingent would be so "live and let live" if they lived with a real hoarder. It's completely freaky how an otherwise normal, awesome person short-circuits and goes nine kinds of crazy if you mention the four-foot piles of random crap that are six feet deep in from the walls.

Dave, good luck. One day I'm going to have to help clean out a house like that, and I better start saving my vacation days now.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mates-of-Messies

Dave, I just want to say good luck dealing with this issue. I know about this from personal experience.

And Chester Shoeshine, I've been there. Good luck to you, too.

Chester Shoeshine, you said exactly what I was thinking!

Taking issue with someone's hoarding (especially a spouse's) does not mean that you are being 'judgmental' and need to 'back off'. It can be a very serious problem and, I'm sorry Dave, one most people never solve.

Also, hoarding tends to escalate. So the person you married ten years ago had neither the time nor resources to accumulate what they have today. It isn't an issue of "Hey you knew, so stop whining about it."

In my case, the hoarder wasn't a spouse, it was both parents|every aunt and uncle|both sets of grandparents.

I have to say, I don't have much hope that her behavior will change. Even people who WANT to change struggle with this for the rest of their lives.

I know this sounds pretty radical, but do you have to live in the same space as your wife?