apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I am a pack rat as well, but using Maxwell's outbox system from the Apartment Therapy book fixed a lot of that. When I noticed I didn't have to step around things and that my life felt more serene, I didn't want all the stuff anymore. I really reevaluated my priorities.

I assume that you've already tried to discuss this with him, and perhaps have even organized a "Cleaning Day" that he's put the kabosh on - so here's what I'd do:

Move out.

That's not to say "Get Divorced" or "Never see him again" - But he needs to know that this is a very serious issue for you and he won't recognize that it's real until you take drastic action by moving out of the home, with the caveat that you will return only after he works - with your help, support and perhaps a degree of compromise - to resolve this issue so that you have a healthy and clean home to return to.

Obviously, none of us know the details of your situation so our advice is going to be all across the board. Bepsf's suggestion of moving out seems extreme to me, but I could see how in some cases that might be necessary.

My advice, however, is to help him see the convenience of the outbox. He doesn't have to get rid of anything he doesn't want to, but it stays out of sight. Like matthewhambrick, he might come to see he doesn't really need or want that stuff after all, though this could take quite some time for him to realize.

My other piece of advice is to compromise. You can't change someone else until you change yourself first. Asking him to quit pack ratting (or allowing him to be one but complaining about it all of time) because you're a neat freak will only make him resentful. Pick your battles and learn to let certain things go. Your house does not need to be perfect, even when you have company over. And don't apologize when you do have company. That counts as complaining about his things in his book.

I live with a pack rat too, who grew up in a family of serious pack rats (they have a whole bedroom and their entire basement dedicated to holding their things, and still their house is full of stuff from floor to ceiling). If you're willing to make compromises, he will too. Eventually. Give him time.

You may find this post relevant (and maybe even mildly helpful.) Lots of us are still looking for answers, though...

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/la/cleaning/when-cleanliness-levels-collide-boyfriends-girlfriends-and-roommates-068757

I'm not the greatest housekeeper, but I hate clutter. My husband is a serious clutterbug. When I can't stand the mess on the table any more, I wait until he's gone and then I shove it all in a large drawer in a sideboard. That forces him to sort through it to find what he needs/wants. That would only work for you if you can stand the anger that gets displayed! I've become immune to my packrat's anger and I take "pissed off" silence better than most people. Do I ever win the war? Not yet, but I keep trying!
PS talking with him didn't solve a thing as he doesn't see the mess as a problem. If he won't admit it, he won't fix it.

Is he a hoarder? or just a packrat? If you're a neatfreak, a packrat may look like hoarder, but may not be. It's important to understand the difference when talking about the issue.

My Wasband is a boarderline hoarder, and the only way to keep the peace was to assign him a home office (with a closed door) where he could keep whatever he wanted, as much as he wanted, as long as he wanted. That and getting a housekeeper helped, too. Just seeing his space made me so angry -- the filth on top of the unorganized mess runined the carpeting in the room.

Packrats [and those hoarders who don't have severe illness]can sometimes be convinced to sort and store their possessions in an organized fashion, as long as they don't have to get rid of their stuff. Look into storage bins and a labeling system, or even a storage unit.

I feel for you. An organized hoarder or packrat is someone I could negotiate with, but dirty habits (unwillingness to throw away real garbage) are issues that ultimately ruin relationships. I hope yours is just a hygenic packrat!

If you're at the end of your rope with a hoarder, try to get a professional who specializes in this type of illness to come to your home and consult with the both of you. If that's out of your price range, get some books (or borrow some from the library), and start talking to your spouse about the larger issues.

I'll offer an example of compromise.... I'm installing a bookshelf that will give 11 linear feet of storage. I said to husband that he could have 6 feet for his books, I'd use 3 feet for mine, and we'd have 2 feet leftover for new books. He was pretty happy about it!

The rest of the books went into storage, which is, a total cop-out... but it keeps the peace. I don't have anything in storage, but he hasn't progressed to that decluttered state just yet. He'd be annoyed that I use the word "progressed" but I do think over life we do tame the stuff and develop a healthier relationship with our attachments!

My, do I ever know this. My husband used to be a horrible packrat, but we've come a very long way, and - note- without me moving out.

First of all, I constantly purge my own junk, and explain why I am doing this.We did lots of reading, and I sent him lots and lots of links to websites. I think this website: http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/ was the first step to "recovery". He got freaked out, even though our clutter was never nearly as bad. And last, both of us are environmental freaks, so we had many discussions about responsible living. We ended up recycling and donating lots and lots of unneeded stuff.

Good luck!

Organize all your drawers and closets the way you want them to be. Don't leave any space for new clutter collections to accumulate.

Then rent a storage unit (or install a shed in your yard). Everything that doesn't have a place -- or that isn't used on a daily basis -- goes there. Let him have total freedom to keep whatever he wants in the storage unit -- it's his problem when it overflows and he can't find anything. And you get a tidy house.

One compromise that works for me is to give my husband his own space to manage however he wants, and I then I get to control how the rest of the place looks. So when you take a walk through our apartment, his desk area is often a mess, but at least the rest of the place is decent. Also, this forces him to limit how much clutter he accumulates, since he's not allowed to overflow into other areas.

People are addressing the clutter issue, but that's a different issue from the packrat issue. You can have a clutter problem without necessarily keeping tons of things. I'm going to assume packrat means packrat.

Here's what I do. You can't ask the person not to acquire/keep things, but you can ask them to organize them and put them out of site. Take all the doodads, throw them in a plastic bin, and say, "please go through this and find a place to put this stuff away." If it doesn't get put away, say you're tired of tripping over it and throw it out.

Repeat until stuff gets put away or you are asked for help with putting it away. If you want to help, designate a neat, put-away-in-the-closet bin for doodads and a different one for whatnots (and so on). Insist that newly acquired doodads get put in the doodad bin. If there are more doodads than the bin will handle, it's back in his court to buy a new bin or throw away some doodads.

I agree with Lisa Hunter.

Pick your battles. You get to control how much stuff is in your home, and he gets a storage unit (get a big one) that he can fill with whatever crap he wants without any complaining from you.

I agree with Natalie C. That's exactly what we do and it seems to work. Compromise!!!

PS: I would never rent a storage unit. That's a waste of money, as no one is ever going to find or use what's in there. Don't encourage the problem by paying to lock it away.

Loretta, I feel your pain. I have almost daily thoughts of leaving as having an inviting home is essential to me. Talking doesn't work. Action works (sometimes).

See if your library has "When You Live with a Messie" by Sandra Felton. If not, Amazon has some cheap used copies. The author has some good advice, especially the section on anger (yours and mine).

Here's an idea for a first step: choose one room to declutter. Your bedroom is a good choice because an uncluttered bedroom really is more relaxing even to a person who doesn't appear to be bothered by mess. My Significant Other didn't believe this until we tried it. The bedroom has a king-size bed, two bedside tables and one armoire (used for linens), and a side chair. That's it for furniture. My clothes are in the closet so I control that area.

Second step, try to give him a room of his own that he can keep any way he wants. Whenever he dumps his stuff around the house, move it to his room. (a giant version of Willliamsweyr's shove-it-in-a-drawer solution). My Significant Other has the master bedroom and bathroom as "his." (We use one of the small bedrooms for sleeping.) For "his room" I ask only that he leave me a path to his clothes closet, as I'm the Laundry Lady. (When the path closes up, I just stop washing his clothes. Very motivating!). I ignore his room otherwise.

Don't give in. You have a right make the changes that you need to live a life that is satisfying to you.

From the packrat's perspective (because I am one, although I'm not a hoarder) there are "reasons" why we've kept the stuff we have. Over the past few years, I've tried different things to help me let go of stuff that I shouldn't have kept, or (some) even acquired in the first place.

Now I'm married to someone who easily lets go of stuff. I've been able to let go of a lot of my stuff by asking if it's really relevant in my life right now, does it really speak to my heart (like the things my son has made for me over the years), and do I want my son to have to deal with it if I should drop dead tomorrow. It's helped me to use freecycle and know that my things will actually be used by someone who needs them, instead of taking up space in my life.

But I had to come to that by myself - I'd probably have resented anyone who tried to force me into it. So I feel for the people who are married to/living with someone like me.

And no - don't get a storge unit - that just compounds the problem. I'm just getting to the last of the stuff from my apartment that went into a storage unit almost a year ago when I got married - and we've paid out almost $1000 to keep it - money we could have used elsewhere (like a really nice weekend in Pismo). :-/

As expensive as storage units may be, they may actually be cheaper than paying for an entire room of square footage in your house.

just so we're on the same page... do you live in a mobile home, without many separate rooms? if that's the case, then all of the space is probably "shared" and therefore, there are probably no private spaces for your husband to keep his stuff, however he wants...

maybe oceandreamer56 has the right idea... try to get your husband to imagine what is really relevant and important to keep, and chuck out the rest...?

i remember moving and deciding if, god forbid, there was a fire, would i run back into the apartment to save it...? but that's an extreme example of deciding on what stays or goes...

best of luck !

Actually, wompwompwomp, that's not a bad idea if it's what works.

I've used a number of stratigies, including playing "What if.." The best one, and one that I'm still using is "What if I were to wake up tomorrow and find out we were getting that little beach bungalow I've wanted all my life?" It would be the start of a new chapter in my life (like getting married was) and what would I want to see in that little house? What is precious enough that I'd want to wrap and pack it, move it, and then have to spend time caring for it instead of playing on the beach?

I have a similar situation, but instead of a storage unit, my husband gets the 'den' all to himself. When I need to declutter his stuff, I put it in there, he doesn't love it, but it works for the most part.

I think organization is a good compromise. My husband is a pack rat but super tidy, while I am not a collector but can get a little messy. What I have found is if there is a place for something to go - a shelf, box, bin, folder, etc. - then it is much easier for my messes to be contained and not be intrusive. My husband does this naturally, so his various collections don't intrude on our tiny apt.

I would recommend getting things like a nice vertical file for paperwork piles, shelves with storage boxes (so even if it's messy inside, it looks nice outside), plenty of hooks for clothes (because I can attest to the fact that it is can be so hard to put things on a hanger), a bowl for change, keys, wallet. See a mess - find a containment solution.

And perhaps in the process of putting things in their place, your husband will also be able to discover that some things can go too. Could even create an eBay box and sell one item a week!

You know, I think the whole issue of "stuff" resonates differently for college age people than for us somewhat older types. It's easy to boldly declare your life clutter-free when you haven't yet accumulated anything that other people consider trivial but that you consider meaningful. It also makes a big difference what you do for fun.

I had a friend who was a writer. She needed her laptop, printer, and internet connection. Her place was totally devoid of personality. I am an artist/craftsman. I have stuff. It sometimes becomes a problem, but I'm also (by profession) a librarian, and we are exceptionally organized types, so I can cram more into a small space than anyone I know. I use my stuff to create. She uses her computer to create. She'd go nuts in my environment, and I'd go suicidal in hers.

Packrats that collect or hoard for no good reason might need therapy. Packrats that collect for love or investment or other real reasons may need a reality check or storage or organization help, but it doesn't automatically make them mentally ill. I think you gotta consider the specifics.

If it is junk with no sentimental value, then here's what I would do (and have done). Put some of the junk in a box labeled "DONATE" or whatever. And then put the box off in a corner or whatever. If, after 6 months, no one has opened the box or asked you "hey, where is [item that is in the box] that I want/need/love", then ditch/donate/sell/give away whatever is in the box.

Well, I defer to what my grandmother says. People only have the power you give them. With our garage, I just went out one day, staked a bunch of poles in the ground with signs on them that said "camping", "holidays", "donate", "yard sale", "landscaping tools", etc. and spent the day hauling everything out with him and sorting it. I didn't ask permission, just started doing it. He naturally just joined in. We actually felt really bad ass about it when it was done. It was a good bonding experience and has motivated us to keep on with the rest of the house. I had to encourage him to be brutal when it came to his stuff. He didn't have any problems telling me to trash mine, though. :) When he held up a box of "sentimental ash trays" I had to give the look that said, "Are you effing kidding? OUT!"

Just start it. Make it easy for him to do and he'll do it. Get the ball rolling and create some inertia. But be loving about it and you'll have success.