apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

These stimulus rebates are disgraceful. Not only are they unethical (why must I pay for some else's car or dishwasher? And no doubt we are junking some perfectly good cars)... but it's also classic "broken window" fallacy. True, if you break all the windows in town, the window repairman, glass maker, etc., will benefit. But nobody considers what people would've done with their money if they hadn't had to spend it on windows. They would've spent it on other things, or saved it, or invested it, etc. Let's have some principles, please!

i just bought a house with no appliances and will be moving in oct. couldn't be better timing for me! :)

Is there a link?

One flaw is that they don't give credits for smaller appliances that may not necessarily be Energy Star, but they don't use a lot of power, like apartment-size fridges. So if you voluntarily (or necessarily) buy smaller appliances you don't get anything. Not that anyone should get anything. There are better ways to go about this, like raising federal standards so every model available is Energy Star compliant.

All these stimuli make me nervous, I gotta admit...

How are the stimulus rebates disgraceful? People all over the country are wasting tons of electricity, using antiquated appliances that are putting enormous strain on our power grid (which at this point still runs primarily on fossil fuels). Encouraging people to buy energy efficient appliances helps our country in a very real way, so it is a perfectly appropriate way to spend tax dollars. And the person buying the appliance will save hundreds of dollars on their electricity bills! Again, how is any of this disgraceful?

I just went over to EnergyStar's tax credit page, and it should be noted that they are giving 30% back (up to $1500) on new windows and doors, insulation, roofs, HVAC, water heaters and biomass stoves, and 30 % back with NO UPPER LIMIT on geothermal heat pumps, solar panels, solar water heaters, small wind energy systems, and fuel cells. So this is absolutely NOT a program designed to encourage people to go out and frivolously purchase fancy expensive appliances on the taxpayer's dime. It is a serious attempt to move our country in a much smarter direction with our energy consumption.

I got a tax credit a few years ago for buying an energy star washer, new doors and new windows. It's time for my 17 year old fridge to be put out of its misery (it's really on its last legs) so I've started looking and am ready to take advantage of the cash. It's not any different to get stimulus money for buying the fridge than getting the tax credit in '08. If the tax credit hadn't expired I probably would have already replace the fridge.

I've been in the market for a new dishwasher for a while. Mine is about 10 years old and on the verge of a complete breakdown. I'll probably wait until October so I can benefit from the rebate. However, I agree with CallDoctorBison. It is extremely wasteful to scrap a perfectly good appliance or car. While parts can be recycled, some components will end up in a landfill. We have to remember, these stimuli and not primarily about energy efficiency and going green. They are an attempt to get you to spend your hard earned dollars on things you don't really need in an effort to (temporarily) boost our weak economy. This makes me very nervous also.

I'm with you clampers. Cut taxes and let the people stimulate the economy.

Rsfish, the point is that people, like yourself, are already in the market for appliances but, due to the economic distress, may not be able to afford the purchase. So the government provides some help, and encourages environmentally responsible choices in the process. You say you're going to buy a new dishwasher soon, anyway. And, with this credit, you will definitely buy an energy-efficient one. What is the problem?

The status quo is: people buy new appliances and throw out their old ones. In most cases, this program changes nothing in this equation except for making energy-efficient appliances more appealing to consumers.

However, some states have introduced appliance recycling programs to go along with the stimulus program. Check out this article:

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/refrigerator-recycling-programs-take-off/

Ultimately, if you don't want your old appliances ending up in a landfill, it is your responsibility to recycle them properly. We should applaud our government for encouraging the use of more energy efficient appliances, not blame them for creating more trash... because if we want to be honest, it is we who are creating the trash.

rsfish: No one is going to blow a grand on a fancy new fridge if they're really financially pinched and don't need it. This is just an incentive for those who are already in the market for one to get something that's energy efficient.

Most folks don't wait to buy appliances when they're on sale or when there's a rebate...
...when they're remodeling the kitchen or when the old fridge, stove or washer finally dies, they head to the store and get the best machine they can afford delivered the next day.
(tho landlords typically just get the cheapest machine in the store)

IMO, this incentive may help homeowners purchase slightly better/more efficient appliances than they would choose otherwise - but it's not going to increase sales, and it's about useless for us renters.

BTW: Is this incentive only on Kenmores, Maytags, Whirlpools and the like - or is it for LG's, Samsungs, Mieles and Gaggenaus too? (I'm sure you know where I'm going with this...)

dammit we just bought a new energy star dishwasher a couple weeks ago (the existing one came with the house, was REALLY OLD, didnt work, and had mold in it)- would have liked to get that rebate! oh well.

One of the smartest ways to stimulate the economy out there. Not only does this boost retail and manufacturing, but it also increases the country's overall energy efficiency for years to come, which is hugely stimulative as we're currently far less energy efficient than Europe or Japan and we import so much of our energy.

As for "cutting taxes" (at least for the rich), the last Administration tried that. We are now living in the aftermath of their brilliant tax cut scheme, in which all of the money supposedly saved (and then some) was wasted by the private sector on idiotic speculation. After having crashed the banking system, the taxpayers are now being forced to bail the Masters of the Universe out.

I'd much rather pay more in taxes and get sane policies like Cash for Klunkers - ones that benefit the economy for years to come - as opposed to tax cuts and speculative booms which line the pockets of well-heeled psychopaths before creating a mess that requires trillions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars to clean up.

Who knew Castro was on AT?!

This would be an excellent recovery rebate if the minimum price for appliances were less than $2400. I understand the principle of government spending to get out of the recession, however, in the midst of a recession many people do not have $2400 to replace an applicance. If so, the applicance would have been replaced and there would not be a need for a stimlus package on energy saving applicances.