In just about every shared household, whether boyfriend/girlfriend, husband/wife, boyfriend/boyfriend, girlfriend/girlfriend, or with roommates, there is usually a discrepancy between one person's preference for household upkeep and another's. Such is the case with our friends: a happily married couple, with the sort of partnership and respect one hopes with all relationships...except in the department of household chores. The first step was acknowledging there was a problem...
As is often the case, the offending party had no idea his cleaning habits were minimal, if non-existent. We are often the product of our own history, with our childhood expectations for chores shaped by our parents' preferences and habits. Upon learning his habits were not ideal for raising an upcoming child in their household, husband-friend agreed to a weekly household cleaning chart (similar to the one used by Sarah Rae). Here's the situation as described by our wife-friend:
My husband and I are polar opposite when it comes to household cleanliness. He has none. In our house I do most of the domestic chores, cooking and cleaning, dusting, vacuuming, sweeping, even laundry. He comes from a household where his mother did everything and the men in the house did nothing domestic. A big coup is that I've gotten him to do the dishes most of the time and help out with the laundry. He also straightens up and makes the bed when guests are coming.6 months pregnant, I'm trying to divvy up the chores so it's more equitable. I created an Excel spreadsheet with 4 weeks running down the side. Each week is divided into two rows; one row is my chores for the week, and one row is his. I have the days of the week on top in columns. I try not to have any chores on the weekend. We alternate weeks on chores like bathroom duty. I also created another document that actually describes how to do the chores since part of the issue is that he needs specific instructions on how a chore should be done.
I didn't include EVERYTHING that can be done, but just the major tasks, like sweeping at least 2x a week, bathroom cleaning at least 1x week, dusting 1x a week, etc. and mopping 1x a month (we have hardwood floors). When I showed him the chart, he said, "that's a lot of stuff!" to which I almost screamed back "I DO ALL THIS STUFF!"
I can't say that it's working yet, because his answer to all this was, "Can we start this in August"
Okay, my friend I predicted upon sharing this topic a segment of the readership would be tempted to make this an all out hate-fest for her husband, but let's make it clear that he's a wonderful and supportive husband in a wide variety of ways outside of household chores. He admits to his deficiencies in this department, and we're hoping Apartment Therapy readers won't submit to judgmental and negative inclinations about their situation or their choice to use a chore chart to help them with improving the situation. In my own household, I tend to be the cleaner, so gender isn't always the determining factor of who keeps house more diligently (though, admittedly, my male brethren tend to have more lax opinions of what is clean), and several friends in same sex relationships note there is often a similar dichotomy.
Our friend agreed to share their situation for two reasons: 1) to hear other couples/roommates solutions and/or experiences with chore charts, and 2) to share their chore chart as a downloadable file below for other people to use. Okay, and admittedly also so she could vent a little and have her husband notice he has a duty to help out despite his history.
We're hoping our soon-to-be-father friend is able to take baby steps in improving his household cleaning manners, with the chore chart being the motivating guidance for a more equitable situation. But it is indeed difficult to teach an old dog new tricks, so we're hoping our friend is patient...and maybe gives him a manly Dyson vacuum as his next birthday gift*.
SAMPLE CHORE CHART (right click to "save as")
*friend just noted her husband wants a Roomba for his next birthday...not exactly hands-on cleaning, but a start.
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On the other side of this issue, some people clean way more than their spouse/roommate consider necessary. For instance, I knew a couple whose wife removed all the ceiling lighting fixtures every week to dust the light bulbs.
I think cleaning to a reasonable standard should be shared. If someone else thinks it's untenable to have soap scum in the soap dish, or insist that the towels must be folded so that the fold (not the edges) face outward in the linen closet, well...that person should do it.
Sometimes people who complain they "do it all" are actually doing way more than necessary. And if you find yourself criticizing all the time because the cleaning wasn't done the way you'd do it yourself, what's the incentive for your spouse/roommate to clean at all, if you're just going to grouse anyway?
Are we married to the same guy?! But seriously, mine claimed that his dyslexia prevented him from reading the chart and his allergies prevent him from participating in cleaning. I simply stopped vacuuming and when I came home one day before we were expecting extended company I was pleasantly surprised that he had done it (I had already done everything else). The chore list won't work for us but just not being so good at the chore yourself might motivate your partner to pitch in.
Katy
http://fengshuibyfishgirl.com
A very timley post for me - we are in discussions about moving in together, and it *is* a lot of stuff and I, too, "do all this stuff!" (Sometimes in both apartments.)
I'm going to print this out and use it as a jumping off point to discuss why it's not a bad idea to scrub the toilet more frequently than every time you move.
Thank you for sharing.
Amusing and oh so familiar....! One of the best things that Chris and I ever did was shell out $90 a week for Gloria (Mom - you know her ;). This settles a lot of the arguements we WOULD have. AND, we kinda still have them because although things may be clean, 'picking up' is still required. And god knows, I do more of that! :)
From observing my sis' lifestyle (baby, husband, house), there's a lot a mom has to do in the beginning, when baby is still a baby... and less to do for dad. So, dad may be doing not half, but ALL of the chores for a while... So, the more practice, the better? :) And Mommy's gonna be cranky, and it's best to stay on her good side... ;)
CONGRATS by the way!!!!!! :)
Christel
We just use Chore Wars to keep track of household chores. Problem solved for this geeky couple.
Yeah...my husband doesn't like the idea of something so regimented as a chart...of any kind. He's also that guy who writes confirmation numbers on junk mail envelopes. :)
http://www.modernests.com
Gori Girl: you and your husband are geek heroes! 5 saving throw against dirty dishes, no doubt! Love it!
Re: leaving something for the other party - hasn't worked for me. Most of the time, if I don't clean things, they just won't get clean. And with the less used parts of the apartment - that's pretty much what happens. I'd have to wait until every plate in the house was stacked on the counter.
My husband does have the questionable virtue of occasionally asking to help with something, usually when I'm a minute from done. No idea if it's on purpose for not. A lot of times I try to steer him - oh I'm fine in the kitchen, honey, but maybe you could go in the den and find a magazine or two to recycle? I've never actually checked to see if he's doing it, though... I suspect not.
Maybe instead of putting it off till August, your friend could start more slowly - ie. sweeping once a week instead of twice, dusting once every two weeks instead of weekly. But definitely get him used to it before baby comes; no putting it off.
I hear your pain. My husband also grew up in some kind of magic self-cleaning house. He just doesn't see things as untidy. I am not a clean freak by any means, but he is the school of thought that if it is not out, he will not remember it. The saying makes me cringe a little bit.
But we are getting better, I followed flylady.net and did her daily chores. But every saturday we both have 'Home Happy Hour' and we clean every room that is lived in. We change the sheets, sweep the patio, clean the kitchen. I list those chores out for him and I, and he has come around to accepting it. Although he hates it, and tells me every week.
My 15 minutes or so of daily cleaning, and the overall cleaning during home happy hour (takes more than an hour) keeps the place company ready. Although it's not perfect, and I am learning (slowly) not to nag when he doesn't clean to my standards. Cleaning is cleaning, and any little bit helps.
@c3leung - my husband & I are fortunate enough to be able to have the same solution -- we have someone who cleans our house every other week. We still have to do normal upkeep stuff (dishes, clutter, laundry), but not the major bathroom cleanings or the like.
This has cut way down on arguments, which in our case weren't about any unwillingness to share in the duties but in my feeling that he was always asking me what needed to be done, which absolutely drove me crazy.
We also try to divide our tasks in ways that work for us & periodically revisit them . . . for instance, he HATES folding laundry, so I always fold & he washes/dries/puts away. One challenge, alluding a bit to what @lisa (montreal) said, is to recognize that if he is taking on a task, he does it *his* way and I shouldn't expect him to do it mine.
mercifully, my husband and I have similar "mess" tolerance levels. I am a smidge more annoyed at boxes on the floor, or clutter, but the differences are truly minimal.
We're super-lucky on this front. Having a baby, I cannot imagine what it would be like to live with someone who would fret over every duplo piece on the ground....
My friends also hired out for their peace of mind/relationship saver.
Speaking of spreadsheets...
This may be too much even for AT readers, but we have a food inventory spreadsheet. We created the sheet and inventoried our kitchen because we realized we had FIVE unopened bottles of white wine vinegar because each of us kept buying a bottle when we couldn't remember if we had some or not. Luckily vinegar does not spoil, so it ended up being fine, but it would suck to spend so much money on food that does expire only to find we already had more than enough on hand.
We uploaded it to google docs and now we each have access to it to update it when we get around to it. Usually one of us will update what we consumed the previous day sometime during the work day.
If anyone is interested, I could share it.
angelabaca@gmail.com
I love my husband. He cleans and is super tidy. I clean but have tidiness problems, but he doesn't hold my endless "piles" against me. He knows I try, I really do.
just by seeing that chore chart, i wouldn't want to do what it said!
Sounds exactly like my boyfriend. I also do it all around here. On a rare occasion I'll get him to do the dishes. Sometimes I just let things slide until he actually notices how untidy the living room or kitchen is, and he'll be forced to do something about it. So I feel for your friend. I have no helpful advice whatsoever. Sorry! But this chore chart may work for me, but my boyfriend would say the same thing her husband did. Men...
I can see why you need to split up most duties, but I've never understood why each person doesn't do their own laundry. If he doesn't want to wash his own clothes then he'll run out and eventually figure out how to do it himself. It's not a good idea to do someone else's laundry if he/she is already not pulling his/her own weight. After all, you won't have to suffer the consequences of not having clean clothes to wear. This method won't work with shared laundry (sheets, baby stuff), but you could just chuck that laundry right into the machine and have it mixed in with the next load.
My sister-in-law got my brother to help with chores by timing everything. She'd say "let's see if we can clean up the whole kitchen in 5 minutes!" or some other ridiculous-but-possible challenge, and he'd jump right in.
He already loved her and wanted to be a good husband, but the specific direction, togetherness, and competition helped kick him into gear. And she'd prefer to maybe have to do a follow-up wipe-down here and there than do it all herself.
In my relationship my fiance is good at tidiness and I'm better at cleanliness. He says "okay, let's hang our coats and put away the shoes" and I say "how about cleaning the hair out of the corners in the bathroom this time." As long as we make specific requests it all works fine (even if there is some heavy sighing). But we're both immune to hinting.
I don't get all these people who get to adulthood without knowing when and how to do basic housework.
That aside, when I was growing up, my family usually set aside one day per week to clean the house and do yard work together. I understand people's schedules can differ, but cleaning your home with your significant other (or roommate or whatever) rather than telling them what to do via chore charts seems to work out better. Things get done pretty quickly and no one feels like they're doing all the work since everyone is pitching in.
That is, you don't feel like you're doing more than your fair share if you actually see everyone doing what they're supposed to do. Independent chore-fulfillment can be a dicier arrangement, especially if levels of cleanliness vastly differ.
Hah! I'm actually the absent-minded one in the relationship, and I'm female. My husband does a lot of the housework. I blame ADD and poor planning on our part. I'm going to fill out the chart and stick it on the fridge - hopefully it'll work!
I've been working really hard over the past few months on a website called called PowrHouse (http://powrhouse.net/). If you're interested in keeping an equitable household, you should check it out.
It's currently in beta, but it works well (we're using it in our household). You add everyone you live with (kids, spouses, roommates, etc.), add your chores (names and how often they should be done), and PowrHouse keeps track of whose turn it is to do each chore (and sends email reminders every night, with links to click to signal that you've done the chores).
If you do end up using it, please contact me (my info is on the site) and let me know what you think, as I'm trying to make it as useful to all types of households as possible. If not, thanks at least for reading this far :)
I guess I'm lucky; my hubbie does quite a lot! We came to an agreement on what the "mess limits" are for each room and whoever realizes it's reached the limit and has a moment to fix it does so. It's pretty even most of the time, but lately he's been pulling most of the weight since I've been madly sewing costumes for a friend's wedding...and then recovering from bronchitis! I pulled more when he was working late every night earlier this year; it ebbs and flows. But creating the "mess limits" were the most important part of the process!
Though Chore Wars is amazing! LMAO
I say this every time the issue comes up, but I'll say it again: getting a maid to come in even once a month when you first move in with someone could save your relationship.
You have so many other things to bicker about. Having someone else come in every few weeks just to push the reset button on chore-related arguments is, in my book, a necessity rather than a luxury. Most maids are around $20 an hour, and a small apt. can take 2 hours or less. $40 a month is worth it, folks.
It also gives you space to comment on cleaning. You notice things the maid did or did not do, and it opens up a peaceful conversation about what cleanliness means to you both. I'm not saying we should rely on maids, but in the beginning, it gives everybody some essential room for breathing.
We also use Chore Wars. I just got 20 EXP.
My spouse spent a weekend at his bachelor friend's apt (in another state) & came home w/a great appreciation of my cleaning efforts. Hubby was literally grossed out by dirty bathroom, moldy fridge, pervasive smell of garbage/ recycling bins that just never made it out in time for collection day, etc. He realized how nice it is to live in a clean space & began to pitch in as never before. Maybe firsthand experience of life w/others who don't care to clean would be a good motivator?
It took me 8 yrs to get my now-husband to pitch in. This was after years of complaining, going on strike (yep, he didn't care and still did nothing), making up chore charts etc. The only thing that worked? Realizing that his guy friends DID pitch in. It took their wives to give him a "hey, I hear you don't do any of this stuff" to get him to understand just how much I was doing (in a house, with 2 cats!) and how much time it was taking me. (I had even thought of recording how many hours a day I was doing housework just to show him).
He's better now. I still do most of it and like someone above, he has the uncanny ability to ask if I need help once I'm almost done but that's progress so I take heart in that.
Luckily we split the household chores and clean every WSaturday, after we have cocktail hour. It works out quite well, the husband gets a reward, I make cocktails, we we are all finished.
He didn't realize the cocktail hour was what I was up to to make cleaning less of a pain or "chore" until i pointed it out. I look forward to the Saturday cleaning and he considers it routine. We used to be huge slobs always putting off the cleaning til i started this.
My husband and I came up with a solution that worked well for both of us. We sit down and make a list of everything that needs to be done and would divide the tasks one at a time, like choosing teams. We make sure that one of us didn't get all of the big items and it seemed equitable. For example, one person wouldn't get dishes and laundry (especially before we had a dishwasher). For my own sake, we would also impose a deadline for the chores. It has worked out well for both of us.
We have a deal where the person that is out of work, cleans. Chores are split up on a who is working arrangement, and how much.
When I was putting him through school, he did all the dishes, laundry, and cleaning because he didn't work. Now that I'm unemployed, and he's working, I do it all.
When we are both working full time, we always split it up between us.
My husband is visually impaired and while he tries to clean, his vision means that he either doesn't see the dirt in the first place, or it is imperfectly done and I feel the need to redo it. We recognized this would be an issue in our relationship.
We discussed it before we ever moved in together and decided early to make sure we budgeted for a cleaning lady to do the heavy stuff every two weeks. With him doing most of the cooking and dishes, and me doing laundry and general tidying, it feels equitable.
Oh dear... my fiance grew up with a family that doesn't clean... so he really doesn't seem to see when things are dirty. Not even just messy, but actually dirty. Whereas I (while NOT a clean freak, our apartment is definitely NOT pristine) will get so stressed out by a serious mess, especially if I have to work from home at night/on the weekend, that it will make me cry. He doesn't remotely pull his weight one chores, even though I work far longer hours... but I don't know what to do about it because he just seems to suck at cleaning. At this point he knows the tasks and I've told him how to do them, but he repeatedly does them wrong, does them in a half-assed way, or simply won't do them without endless reminding on my part. We want to get a cleaning service but cash is tight right now. I really sympathize with the person who commented "a toilet should be cleaned more frequently than whenever you move"-- I literally had that exact experience of scrubbing the toilet at his old bachelor apartment when he moved out after a year of living there... seriously grim stuff. He was very sweet and grateful about it, but I would rather he had scrubbed the toilet himself! RE: the laundry issue--- some of us share closets (his closet also has stuff stored in it in our case) and can't let the other person's stuff pile up to monstrous proportions. Plus it's smelly and nasty to have a month's laundry sitting around... and he will even wear some things twice before he actually does it... and that's no fun for me!
thank you for the chart! I love Excel. I'm single and live by myself, but sometimes the chores just seem so overwhelming. Having a system where you do the same thing every day of the week so things don't pile up is exactly what I've been looking for!
"He admits to his deficiencies in this department, and we're hoping Apartment Therapy readers won't submit to judgmental and negative inclinations about their situation"
No comment then.
I take care of most of the cleaning in the house, and I really don't mind. My husband takes care of the yard, the bills, everything associated with our cars, and home maintenance/repair. I've noticed that a lot of times when wives gripe about their husbands not helping out around the house, they are not taking into consideration the other kinds of chores I mentioned above. While I spend a lot of time cooking and cleaning after I get off work each day, he spends large chunks of every weekend doing the yard work, etc. It balances out in the end.
i've recently come to understand that the divvying up of household chores is (usually) a problem area in all marriages (as I look my big step in the face coming Nov. 14...). we have the problem of both being very busy (full-time workers also in school trying to graduate...) and both using that busy-ness to shirk household responsibilities....until the sink is so full that one of us gets really irritated that the other one is doing nothing. it's usually the both of us doing nothing when that happens, though. so i feel like the excel would be a great way to even just keep couples on task. i don't make lists to be able to cross something off, i often keep a list just to make sure i am reminded about who/what i want to be and that involves being cleanly - so why not keep a list in order to keep being cleanly a priority? good post - can we have an "i like this" button like on fb? :)
Marie516: I strongly suggest either talking to a mediator or looking into Non-violent Communication, and then explaining to your guy how important this is to you. I suggest the mediator or NVC because this kind of conversation is difficult to have without sounding judgemental, and judging will only make it worse. Explain to him that you NEED a certain level of cleanliness to feel that the place is your home. Write down your "ideal" cleaning requirements, and decide on your minimum requirements, and then sit down and talk about them. Be sure that he understands that this isn't optional, that it is something you genuinely need from him in order to be happy.
For my Fiance, I had to tell him "Ok, this is a deal breaker. I need your help, or it will eventually destroy this relationship." It may sound dramatic, but it was totally true. If I had to spend my life cleaning up after him, I would leave. Even if he grew up not cleaning, he can learn, and if he really wants to make your relationship work, he WILL learn. Ignoring your partner's needs is cruel, and an unwillingness to compromise spells disaster.
It's nice to be able to commiserate. I am the cleaner in our household. We only got married last year, and the discoveries have been astounding. I try leaving notes and instructions, but the husband somehow can't read when it comes to chores, and even after checking if he understood spoken instructions and he confirms, he'll claim later that he didn't know what I was talking about. You really can't teach old dogs new tricks. Dirty clothes belong in the hamper, not clumps on the floor. When the dishwasher is done, put the dishes away as opposed to jamming dirty dishes into a load of clean dishes and wondering why there is no room in there for more dishes. Toothpaste belongs on the toothbrush and in your mouth, not decorating the sink and counter tops (and on your toothbrush after you've finished brushing). His most popular explanations for neglected chores--I'm tired; I have too much work to do; I don't have time... He forgets that I also have a full time job--dealing with kids and parents at a school all day. As hard as I've tried to get him to buy into cooperation, I think, if possible, the best solution is to buy help--we are adding more days to our housekeeper's schedule.
Sigh....
We use upsees.com. It's simple and easy, there's no game involved like with other apps. And it's free, so no one bitches.
please help! the link to the excel sheet above clicks through to tech...i'd really like to use this!