apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

That's all very well put advice, and also one of my favorite ways to spend a summer evening.

Really great advice. My friends are the stoop-sitter type, and as much as I was turned off by the idea, going over to his place is quite pleasant and I have warmed up to the idea, especially when it builds up to 10 or so friendly neighbors hanging out enjoying a drink. I am the only one with a glass of wine though... haha

I'm not getting why to have the ashtray.

what a lovely stoop picture! I love it! I have a third floor balcony instead of the more communal front stoop, but I've been working to spiff it up this spring -- I'd love to get a nice outdoor rug like the one here!

Just a polite alternate explanation of "neighbors who communicate through public servants"? Often it's not because the person is rude or exaggerating, but because they're, say, a single woman who really doesn't want to go ask the three rowdy drunk guys to please tone it down.

Just speaking from the experience of being a single woman myself, whose apartment was nearly broken into by three rowdy drunk guys who'd just stabbed their friend in the apartment next door. I had no idea what was happening, and I chose to "communicate through public servants" right before they started trying to pound down my door. You hella better bet I'm glad I did. (Yes, yes, I know, very few people are violently dangerous. But there are enough to where the more vulnerable among us would rather not take unnecessary risks.)

ChrisGal, the ashtray is for strangers/friends of friends who smoke. I mean, you can forbid smoking on your porch. It's yours and it's your right. But outside, if a person is smoking respectfully (on the far side or the edge of a porch and blowing smoke away from the crowd), I don't feel the need to be all nanny-ish about it. And smokers will definitely pick up an empty (or almost empty) can or bottle to use as an ashtray. It is NOT pleasant to absently pick up the bottle thinking it is yours.

I do not smoke. In fact, I have asthma. But my porch has an ashtray. It is capable of closing against the elements. It also keeps the smell of cigarettes inside.

ChrisGal, keep an ashtray for those that might stop by that do smoke. It's just a courtesy. I used to smoke, but though I am highly agitated by it now, I still keep an ashtray hidden in the closet in case family or friends who smoke stop by and need to take a break on my balcony. Not quite a stoop or porch, but all the same.

And I have to slightly disagree with the no calling the cops thing. Where I am now, half of my neighbors don't speak English and have this mentality that they own the area, so they don't care or respect anyone around them. It gives me peace of mind that I can call the cops to complain about the noise and they handle it well.

Laura
http://www.grafxnerd.net

I have to agree with fraise on this one, since I live near a university. It's best to let the police handle certain complaints like noise or setting things on fire, since a large crowd of drunk undergrads is more likely to listen to the cops than to a polite neighbor.
In our neighborhood the noisy undergrad house has been known to retaliate against complaining neighbors by vandalizing property and stealing things off our porches.

fraise, you did the right thing. Safety above all else.

I'm a single woman as well. I had a HUGE problem with a couple of grad students next door to me. Forget quiet after 10. It would be a full on party that didn't even start until the bars closed, often after 1 on week nights. I tried reasoning with them. No dice. Luckily, I have a really active landlord/managing company. Rather than enlist the cops, I reported them to my landlord. It only took doing that once to have them, of their own volition, come over and apologize. I wouldn't say that the problems stopped, but I never had to go over multiple times to quiet them down ever again. And after seeing the condition in which those two left the apartment, my landlord listens intently any time I have a complaint about neighbors. Bad ones cost them money. They actually DO often want to know about it. But I always try reasoning first.

It has always been a dream of mine to have a house with a porch so I could sit there and drink a beer and watch the people walk by. Sadly in LA houses with nice porches are hard to come by.

I should amend that. I always try reasoning when I know I can do so without endangering myself. In fraise's situation, I would have been on the phone so quickly your head would spin.

1. Nobody smokes on my property. Ever. Period. (Gross habit, stinks and ruins the environment, kills people -- such as my mother who was not allowed to smoke at my place, and thus seldom visited.) I stand firm.

2. I'm with fraise. But it depends on the situation, too. My downstairs neighbor in an old apartment used to play loud music late at night so the bass made my walls vibrate! I had no problem asking him to turn it down. Other neighbors were obviously drunk and shouting at 3am, using words like "kill" and "knife". I called 911. You just have to consider each situation.

Re: "Neighbors who communicate through public servants are not neighbors."

I have to disagree on this one as well. I guess it might depend on who your neighbors are and what your neighborhood is like, but I definitely don't feel bad about calling the police, codes department or animal control on certain neighbors. (Though I definitely would not call the police etc., or would communicate face-to-face with those neighbors I have a good relationship with or haven't had problems with.)

But, our next-door neighbors have an adult criminal son who is out on probation and who has harassed me before, and whom the parents continue to coddle and provide room and board and free babysitting for his kid, despite my husband's complaints to them about the son's behavior. The son has retaliated by stepping up harassment after my husband complained, and I carry full-strength pepper spray, at the advice of a neighborhood officer, in case I should ever encounter him while I'm alone. The same family also has major codes/health issues in their yard that they said they were going to fix five years ago and never did, and I finally called codes on them. (The problem is hideous, probably unsanitary and they know it's a problem ...) Also, our across-the-street neighbors regularly hold 4 a.m. drunken screaming parties where guns and knives are present. (In fact, one gathering resulted in a stabbing.) These same neighbors handle their domestic disputes on their porch at full, screaming volume about once a month. You'd better believe I will never nicely knock on either of these neighbors' doors and politely ask them to keep it down.

On the other hand, the very cool and friendly couple who live a few doors down from us sometimes get carried away with their partying pretty late at night, and we usually just try to get to sleep in spite of it. We would never call the police on them.

I think neighborly behavior has to be earned, and safety has to come first.

". . .the same notoriety as lofty porches from the South,"
When did Southern porches become notorious? According to at least one online dictionary, notorious is "widely and unfavorably known". I thought Southern hospitality was a good thing.

"- After 10 p.m., take it inside. It’s fun to carouse by the light of the moon, but it’s not fun to comfort your screaming infant while outside jerks are carousing by the light of the moon."

This needs to be printing in gigantic font and posted in my complex. I've had neighbors start barbeques, dinner parties, and what sounded like a club meeting once well after 10pm. That said I do live in a university town. We're living cheap now so we can save desperately for a house *away* from all the students. Thank goodness it's summer now.

that porch photo tugs at my baltimoron heartstrings! your set up is gorgeous. do you have a painted screen?

If you find yourself getting sick, by all means excuse yourself to the restroom. Leaning over onto the neighbor's porch and hurling is neither mannerly nor neighborly.

- Clean up after yourself, but don’t scrub too hard. A porch should never feel too clean to spill a beer on.

Here's one I can drink to....on my porch.

MaeEast - Let me clarify. In my opinion (and spending summers living in the South), I see Southern porches as being quite notorious. Grand, lofty, inviting - the ideal porch. The other definition of notorious is "generally known and talked of". Here is a lovely post (written by a Southerner herself), you might enjoy. http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/dc/inspiration/what-is-southern-style-atlanta-076042
And thank you mlleErica and lilalicarese for the kind words. That is my porch - we don't have a painted screen here, but my boyfriends great-grandfather (William Oktavec), was the artisit who started the whole tradition here in Baltimore (kindof cool :) I imagine he'll inherit some of the many original painted screens one day. (Hope to do a post about that sometime... stay tuned)
As for the rug, it is from this company, very affordable and I love it! http://www.outdoorrugsonly.com/mad_mats.asp

Smoking is disgusting and cancer causing, and should not be tolerated on the property, and especially upwind from a neighbouring porch.

The exhaust from the cars trundling by your porch is more disgusting and more dangerous than cigarette smoke.

Please stop peddling nonsense.

*lights a Nat Sherman and blows smoke at rapidtransitman's comment*

"Greet your neighbors as they come in and out of their front doors... Not to do so will create a weirdness force-field for all future interactions."

Perfectly put!

I agree with most of the advice, except I'd modify it to:

Take it inside after 10pm. But give your neighbors until midnight during the week and 1am on the weekend before you call the cops.

Oh, and give them a pass the first time if you can bear it.

I think the 10 o'clock rule completely depends on location. If your neighbors are young and get on well with all of them, then midnight or later wouldn't be unreasonable. I live in a block of flats filled with pensioners and young children (including a couple of babies), so I feel guilty being loud after sunset.

If you are entertaining outdoors and you have nearby neighbors, it's only appropriate to take it inside and settle it down by 10pm. I'm 23 - and yes I'll register a complaint with the office if I can still hear my neighbors blaring their music after that time. I go to bed at 11pm and get up at 6am.

A lot of areas around where I live at least have quiet hours. Let's take here in Johnson County in Indiana - you can be fined up to $3000 for not obeying to it.

I'd just like to modestly note that the post mentioned above was guest-posted on Midnight Sun, and was actually written by Matthew Smith, man about town & porch drinker extraordinaire.

I'm so jealous of the porch picture. It's the first day of winter over here in the southern hemisphere and I long for the days that I could sit outside!

I agree wholeheartedly with "take it inside after 10:00pm."
Personally, for my own gatherings - I take inside after dark. You just don't know what sort of hours ALL your neighbors keep.
The morning news anchor/producer who has to get up at 4:00am. The nurse who works overnights.
The parents who finally got their colicky baby to sleep.
Or someone who works 9-5 - but had such a busy week they are just dying to crash.

And yeah... I'll call the cops if needed.
and no - I will not put out an ashtray.
I feel very strongly that NOONE should smoke anywhere close to where other people breathe.
And after much consideration it has become clear to me that the only appropriate place to smoke is A) in a sealed, cinder block basement with no doors or windows or B) your coffin.
It's 2009. Quit already.

Oh... as for the hours people keep...
I'm thinking about my area... where the majority of us don't have air conditioning (Denver - no humidity) and so we HAVE to sleep with the windows open in the summer - no choice.

so for that reason - shut your pie hole at 10:00pm and don't smoke anywhere that your unpleasant aroma can drift into someone else's window.

What a lovely post, coming into summer!

In some situations, clearly calling the police is the only option, for safety's sake. But how sad for all of us if this is the first resort in other circumstances. I'll echo all those who've said that it's important to consider your neighborhood. If you're living in the inner city, surrounded by students or young people (or older urban grooovers, for that matter...), I don't think it's reasonable to demand that everyone around you keeps suburban hours. If you move into such a place, you can't expect to enjoy the day-time advantages of urban life and not put up with (why not embrace?) the night-time aspects. Aggressive & scary stuff is another matter. But if we're just talking noise, I don't think it's fair or generous or civil to call the cops over a bit of late-night revelry in a vibrant city.

Likewise smoking... I've never smoked a cigarette in my life, and no-one smokes inside my apartment. But turning this into a political/moral crusade -- really? Drinking (which I do) causes cancer too, you know. Also eating meat (which I don't do), driving cars (don't) and eating processed food (oh, dooooo!).

I don't lecture carnivores over dinner, I don't turn away guests who arrive by car, and I'm happy to provide an ashtray on my balcony. If anything, I think the first two are bigger sins against humanity/the planet. But seriously, have we become this judgemental & unbending?

Three cheers for porches! Thanks for the post!!

Here's my rule: Your neighbor's potted plants are not an ashtray. I used to have neighbors who would smoke and drink on our shared balcony. They were usually quiet, so I didn't mind that. However, they occasionally had guests who would throw their cigarette butts in the plants next to my door. I finally got fed up, collected all the butts, and left them on their doormat. I guess they got the point, because it didn't happen again.

This post has made me all the more appreciative of my home and where I live. In my deep south neighborhood every home has large front porches, and mine has two! My block is noisy and active and myself and my neighbors tend to be out at odd hours. There is nothing better than the front porch. On quiet weekday nights I will go sit and sip and listen to the blues band across the street practice and late nights after the bars close we come back for that last drink we forgot to get at last call. But the best? A summertime afternoon thunderstorm blowing in. Scoot the chairs back against the house and the porch is deep enough to avoid all but the most sideways of rain, watch the streets flood and the skies crack open while having an afternoon cocktail.

..yes, and a smoke! One ashtray minimum.

where to find a nice outdoor rug like the one in the picture?

Please don't play the guitar and sing the same dang songs every dang night. A little music is okay but not for hours on end...

Nice article. However,speaking as a native, the last time I checked Maryland was still below the Mason-Dixon Line. D.C. is still in the South as well. Ergo, porches.

As a Southerner, I'd have to agree with maeeast. We tend to think of Rhett Butler as notorious; not our porches. That said, we enjoy our porches and our hospitality. C'mon down, sit a spell, and enjoy some ice tea.
Perhaps Kimber might check the AT Style Manual and other reference sources.
Goldspinner nailed it: Baltimore is in the South, per Mason-Dixon.
And the English language is constantly changing. Words take on new meanings and new shades of meanings. However, I'll defer to a Brit named Alfred Hitchcock. He defined "Notoriious".