Q: I own a 250 sq. ft. co-op on the Upper West Side in Manhattan. I'm looking into doing a bathroom renovation. I want to get rid of the tub and just have a shower, but I'm concerned about loosing value by doing so. Any thoughts on it from the community would be helpful.
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Do what makes you happy. And when you go to sell, there probably are plenty of buyers who,like you, prefer just a nice shower to a shower/tub combo.
I just bought my first house and will be closing at the end of the month. I was wondering the exact same thing! I haven't used a tub in over a decade and wanted to do an "open" shower.
I have a condo without a tub. While I did not miss having one, I think many buyers would be turned off by that. I guess your size already limits families so maybe it's less of a concern with your kind of place.
If you are a man, probably does not matter. For a woman though, I think no tub is a deal breaker..
I think for a man it would not matter but for a woman it would be a deal breaker...
Agree with trishdom.
I would say that in 250 sq ft, a shower-only bathroom is a feature, not a bug.
I second what trishdom said - a lot of people look for tubs because they are easier to bathe babies and small children in, but I don't think anyone looking at a 250 sf place would have children
I'd be fine with no tub, especially in such a small unit. A really nice shower would be a great feature.
@harper4: I know more men who like taking baths than women, and I personally would prefer a nice shower to a tub. Smaller space to clean, more space in the rest of the bathroom for all the other girly things I'm supposed to be doing there, like painting toenails :)
and for those times I need to soak in hot water, I'd much rather go to the pool since the heat is kept constant. Baths go cold too fast.
I talked about this with my realtor since I'm planning a bathroom remodel. Like people said here, my realtor said it depends on where you live and who is the target market for your property. For a small city condo, most people shouldn't even expect a tub. Women want tubs, families want tubs, men want showers. If you have multiple bathrooms, at least one should have a tub.
Alas, I live in a small cottage in a family neighborhood and have only one bathroom. My realtor is encouraging me to put in a traditional tub or expect a tough house sell or even a price reduction if I don't have a tub.
I agree with others- if I did not haven't kids, and I wouldn't in a 250 sq foot condo- I would prefer a nice shower with more room (in the bathroom or other parts of the condo). Your potential buyers probably won't have kids, so go for the shower. But, I wouldn't do an "open" shower as one commenter suggested.
I think most families with small children prefer a tub for bathing the youngsters. But your unit is earmarked for a single person, I'd say. A lot of people would be okay with just a shower, but some women enjoy a long soak in the tub - with sweet smelling oils, bubbles, salts, and scented candles. You might check with a real estate agent who specializes in small co-ops for his/her advice. But ultimately, it's your place, your call.
DON'T DO IT!!! I love baths and I'm an adult. What if you exercise and have a sore back? I hate the extinction of bath tubs...
I vote for a sexy shower - no gender qualifications. If it fits the space and if it's still luxurious, it shouldn't matter.
In a place that small anyone would be thrilled with the extra space a shower-only bathroom could give. I'd gladly trade my tub for a little storage in my tiny bathroom.
I would never buy/rent a place without a tub.
As a fellow westsider who has live in several small studios, I say do what you want. UWS studio buyers are not looking for tubs -- they are looking for affordability and efficiency.
From what I see on HGTV they always say a tub is a must. I can't think why.. but that's what they say ...
On the other hand if you think of a family with a small children... that's the only case you, imho, need a tub.
Like someone already said here: in your case with 250sf of space - family with kids is unlikely to be interested in your place :))
I think you're ok with losing the tub. My feeling is that a tub is only necessary if there are children.
No tub is a plus, in my opinion. What a waste of space.
What do you hope to gain by ditching the tub? It doesn't really take up that much space beyond that of the shower, so if you're worried about resale, I would only make the switch if you're going to get a meaningful benefit of some sort (storage, layout, plumbing). Or if the current tub is in such bad shape that its detrimental to your home value.
some might like one vs the other but nobody will be put off and think, oh man but if only it DIDNT have a bathtub.
I recently bought an apartment and I didn't even view ones without tubs. Bathroom without tubs seem to be a new trend in NYC, especially in those new construction buildings. I see it as a cost-cutting measure for builders.
I am shocked by the people who say they haven't taken a bath in several years! What about when you were sick and achey? I lived in an apartment with just a shower for two years and every time I got sick (which was pretty often during that period for some reason), I desperately missed having a tub.
I think people are right though, a luxurious shower is probably regarded with equal/greater value to a tub in the UWS.
I think a well-done shower with a seamless glass partition is a beter option than a plain-old tub with a shower curtain.
I never take baths. NEVER. I always shower. What's the point of a bath anyway? You're just sitting there, in water that doesn't stay the correct temperature for very long, and it's cold! I want to take a warm shower, not sit in a tepid tub of water. Ugh.
I hate tubs and I'm female.
I agree with all the other comments about a small condo being completely different than a family friendly home.
Our place was built to suit the particular needs of a quadriplegic, so it has ramped entries and extra wide halls and doorways and a huge bathroom (one of two) with a 5 x 6 foot roll-in shower stall, but no tub. We've been told by real estate agents and a home inspector and others that it would be lots easier to sell if it had a tub. Fortunately, there's plenty of room for a tub (a large one, even) in that super-sized bathroom while still retaining that shower stall. One of these years I'll get around to adding one, as I myself prefer soaking in a tub to showering.
If I had the space limitations you're facing, I'd keep the tub/shower combo, provided you expect to sell it at some point.
Are you planing to sell anytime soon? If not, I would do what suits you and makes you happy. After all, is that the great thing about owning a home vs. renting where you have make do with what you have?
Plus I think in a small space like yours saving space with a shower makes more sense.
Our last three houses have had tubs, including a huge whirlpool, a claw foot and regular sized one w/ jets. In the 12 years that we've lived in the houses, I used the tub ONCE (the claw foot one). I much prefer a shower. I think tubs are useful for kids but a waste for most adults. As far as being sick, I'd rather stand under a hot shower or go to the gym's steam room. Actually, what I'd love is a steam shower, especially for those dry winter days.
I'm in a family-sized house with 3 bedrooms. We, too, wanted to eliminate the tub in our remodel. But instead, we kept just one tub. We still have a nice shower in the tub, its just that you have to step into it. But as many have said, context is everything.
This 45-year-old, single woman with no children wants a tub in her home. The lack of a bathtub would be a serious disadvantage. Thanks for asking.
I'd keep the shower-tub combo bacause that that's the only bath and, all else being equal, prospective buyers probably would prefer to have options.
I might be the weirdo here but I never take baths but I still like having the tub. I think I've been put off by stalls by having to deal with the smallest, darkest stall in America for 6 months. If you can make it spacious and luxurious, I don't think people are going to be upset about it. Just make sure there's enough room to move without touching the walls and that you put a light in there. ;0)
I'm a 61-year-old woman who has always had a bathtub and has not used it (other than the shower function) since the kids were toddlers. They're pushing 40 now. I'd much rather have storage space in my tiny 1950s bathroom.
Hmmm... personally, it doesn't matter to me. I haven't had a tub in three years, and it hasn't affected me one bit. BUT my shower does have a seat and a nozzle that comes off the wall on a hose.
If you are leaning toward a tub (as it seems other posters are), There are some smaller clawfoot tubs (4'-5' long) out there that you could consider. And clawfoot tubs are super classy.
Many elderly people and people with disabilities have trouble getting in and out of a bathtub. A shower instead of a tub would be an advantage to those buyers.
We're not tub people, but we're building a house right now, and decided to put one in just for resale. We figured a big (ish) tub would be fun for our kids as long as we live there, and it would be worth it if it would appease finicky buyers later.
Men like baths, too! We just expanded a half bath to a full bath with soaking tub so my husband could have good soaks (of course, I like it, too).
I think a shower-only is better than a shallow tub, though. That's what we have in our main bathroom, and it's pointless.
I haven't taken a bath since I was a kid.... but my boyfriend takes one every once in a while.
Most shower/tub combos never have deep enough tubs IMO, ours is handy for bathing our dog, who loves to climb in and stand in the shower when we let him, but otherwise useless to me for bathing. I do - however - like the amount of space it forces you to have to shower in and the ledge to put a leg on when shaving.
My parents had a shower stall with separate big deep tub... I remember my mom soaking in the tub when she was pregnant with my youngest sister - my other sister and I used to pretend her stomach was an island and play with our toys on it. With two young daughters running around all day, it was the closest she could get to a bit of peace, haha
I, personally do like a soak occasionally. If however, I was looking at moving into a tiny city apartment, I think I'd rather have the additional space a shower would free up.
depends on the size of you bathroom. if you have a side that's at least 5' wide and you have a length of 8', you should do a tub. you will also be limited by the location of your drain(s); supply lines locations are less important.
99.9% of the time, I use the shower. But a couple of weeks ago, I sprained my back and decided to see if the neglected tub in my guest bathroom would help me loosen it up. OMG, it was bliss. I forgot how nice a bath can feel. I used some lavender bath salts and soaked a good long time. So, no, don't get rid of the bath. Just find a way to make the shower part look stunning.
Shower w/no tub is a dealbreaker for me I consider it a major plus in an apt that small...
Another bath hating woman here! One reason we bought our current home is for its master shower - NO tub! The kids' bathroom has a tub, and that's fine. Just don't make me get in it. YUCK.
In a 250 sf space in Manhattan, you don't have to worry about a family with kids, which is the only group that really *needs* a tub. A normal tub-shower combo will be less luxurious than a shower that takes the same amount of space.
I'm a woman, but I haven't taken more than five baths in the last ten years. A tub certainly isn't necessary for me. We live in a three bedroom home, so I don't think it would be a good idea to get rid of the tub in one of the two bathrooms, but for your 250 sf condo, why not? It will be more luxurious with a nice shower, and a more luxurious bathroom will help you sell for more. If you can put in a bench, all the better.
I completely agree with Trishdom. Only an issue for families. Even so, we just put in a new large bathroom in our basement and were going with an open shower design until the last minute because we like that modern look. We have two small kids so practicality won in the end. By the way, it's hard to find reasonably priced stylish tubs.
Many hotel rooms (especially in newer hotels) in NYC and other cities don't have tubs, only showers. They must have recognized that, even without a tub, there are plenty of potential customers for them; it won't hurt business to not have a tub in the hotel room.
I wouldn't get rid of it especially if it is the only bathroom. Yes some people prefer one or the other but if you need to sell it in a pinch why cut off a bunch of buyers instantly? I just don't think that serves you well. Look at hotels. I can't remember even one that I was in that did not have a shower/tub combo and there's a reason.
When we gutted one of our bathrooms we put in a soaker tub (neither of us are bathers) and had a custom surround made. Now that it is there we use it. Great for sore backs and when you're sick. We still have the shower head which we use most often.
If you are looking for a compromise and you can get a hold of Canada's Style at Home Oct. 2011 issue I recommend looking at it. There's a bathroom done with a walk in shower/ full sized tub combination worth a peek.
Your best bet is to ask a local realtor what would work best for resale.
I struggle with this all the time, in my fantasy bathroom renovation... or did, until I saw the glass bathtub on AT recently. It has all the openness of a shower, and all the convenience of a tub. WANT!http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/boston/tubs-toilets-showers-sinks/make-a-big-splash-clear-glass-tubboston-home-magazine-147634
I am a girl and prefer a shower. If I want a soak I'll go to the hot tub.
If you're going with a shower see if you can get a small ledge or something...one of my sister's biggest complaints with our shower is that she has no where to prop her leg up when shaving, so she prefers the tub.
"I see it as a cost-cutting measure for builders."
quite the opposite, really. a decent quality enameled-steel tub will set you back $100. considering the amount of tile, waterproofing and backer-board (+ labor) it'd take to cover the area, it'd be more cost effective (and a lot easier) to install a tub. additionally, tubs are much more water-proof having only one point of weakness (the drain, which is easily serviced).
the shower-only idea is a space-saving trend since you can fit a shower in 1/2 the space... and they generally have a more "upscale" feel.
the the points made (and to the original question), your market will not care about a shower vs. a tub, but instead will be drawn to the elegance of a nicely installed shower stall. investigate the kerdi system of waterproofing and their kerdi-line linear drain -- a real crowd pleaser... your downstairs neighbors will appreciate the effort.
http://www.youtube.com/user/schlutersystems1
I wouldn't buy a house if the bathroom didn't have room for a tub. Many people like to sink into a hot bath at the end of a long day. Our house has an old iron clawfoot tub. It is a beautiful & useful thing.
We just renovated our only bathroom in our 2 bd bungalow and opted to remove the tub so we could put in a large & spacious shower. We had a huge tub at our last house and never used it. I think in this instance - being a small co-op - lacking a tub isn't going to make or break a sale. We're planning to add a 2nd bathroom with a tub when we finish the basement. But until then, I am loving our huge new shower! (Plus, for those saying families with young kids *need* a tub - our nieces and nephews have stayed with us and just taken showers. The youngest being only 2. It works just fine.)
I'm a licensed Appraiser. In 250 SqFt it does not hurt the value. There are instances where having a bathtub actually hurts resale (senior communities, due to limited mobility issues). Before you convert your tub to a shower, please verify with your local municipality as it could be a code violation. I would agree that anyplace that has the potential for having children live there, needs at least one bath. If someone has a 2 bathroom condo with a secondary bath that has a tub, it would not hurt resale value to install a shower only in the master bathroom. Any potential buyer who are deterred from not having a master tub/shower combo, would be offset by the number of people who view the shower as an update.
go for the shower. Many here have made good points about families and babies using tubs more. Even the 3 times a year that I may take a bath, I'd give that up for a nice shower.
In your small home, I would probably go with just the shower (especially if that is your preference). I am a bath person all the way and would never purchase a home without one, but that is only my personal preference. Also, with your small space it doesn't make much sense to have a bathtub unless it is something you really want and will use (I agree that most folks looking at smaller homes aren't expecting a bathtub).
I have lived in two tiny apartments in the East Village that were shower only. I was very pleased when I finally moved into an UWS apartment that had a tub.
A tub is not only useful for children (I don't have any), but also for washing dogs. There was a groomer who had a self-wash station in the East Village, but on the UWS, I haven't found that, so it's very convenient to have the tub we have.
That said, if you are decreasing the footprint of the shower in order to increase square footage somewhere else or to add much-needed storage space within the bathroom, then go ahead and make that improvement. Just make sure you're eliminating the tub for practical reasons, not purely aesthetic purposes.
Tubs are must in a house for value due to families, but with such a small space a family wouldn't be your target selling audience when you re-sell so going to just a shower shouldn't matter.
Talk with a realtor who sells in your area and find out what your target buying prefers. My house has two bathrooms and we have considered converting the smaller one to shower only. But because our home is more suited to a family, we would keep the tub in the other bathroom for resale value. A realtor would definitely have some insight for your area I think.
I got rid of the cramped and ugly tub/shower combo in my two bedroom cottage and used the space for a really nice shower. With only one bathroom I did not want the uncomfortable and unsightly compromise unit & I don't care if it hurts resale.
The decision is yours, but a home without a tub is a huge deterrent for me, because I am a bath person, and because they are practically a necessity you have children or pets. I would not want to buy a tub-less home unless I could afford to make changes right away. If you are planning on staying there awhile and not having children, pets, or a mate who needs a tub, then you should do whatever you want, but I think anyone who sells homes for a living would advise otherwise. If you go ahead with it, I'd make sure it's a showstopper, if for no other reason than to distract future buyers from the fact that there's no tub.
I hardly ever take baths in my only bathroom, because to take a bath I have to scrub the tub out first (showering leaves scummy residue all over). That kind of ruins the relaxing aspects of a nice hot bath.
A shower, assuming you have a nice detachable shower head that you can bring down to floor level, works just as well for pretty much everything, including washing dogs and other oversized washing needs. It's even easier for some things because of the lack of high edge to haul wriggling dogs over. I'd exchange my tub/shower combo for a shower-only in a heartbeat.
Wow, this is a hot issue that I was considering too. I live in a small old house with 3 small bedroom and one bathroom. I wanted to take out the tub if I redid the bathroom, but I like the idea of soaking and was thinking of adding a hot tub/ jacuzzi in the backyard, which is rather large. Comments anyone?
Go for the big shower. I think it is gross to sit in a bath that doubles as a shower - dirty feet, ick. We took our bath our of our master suite for that reason and we have a huge shower and absolutely love it. We have a bath in the kids bathroom however.
I'm an adult, and I love baths. I try to limit myself to 2 a week. I know several other people like me, for whom no tub would be a deal breaker. But of course, if the selling price is a good enough deal, the buyer might be willing to do the renovations and put in a bath (again).
Hi All-
I'm the one who posted the question. I really appreciate all of the feedback.
After talking to my contractor, I've decided to keep the tub and re-glaze it. The plan is to replace the tub/shower fixtures with new hardware. We are also looking into installing a sliding glass door to get rid of the shower curtain.
In all, I think this will be a good update and will make the bathroom feel like new without going through the hassle of removing that old tub.
I'm going to be in the same boat soon. Moving into a 1BR/1BA condo in a 60s highrise. Tiny bathroom and. O way to expand. I am a 61 year old woman who is about 6' tall. For me, most bathtubs aren't that comfortable. Still, I am reluctant to remove the tub for for resale effects. On the other hand when it's time to sell this condo I will most likely have passed on so maybe I should not care.
Just wanted to add support to the "it's a 250 sq ft NYC co-op; it doesn't have to have a tub" crowd.
Location and context are everything. Of course, in any kind of family home or most other areas of the country, a tub would be considered necessary, but in Manhattan, it's certainly not.
If you would prefer a shower only, and you're going to live there, then you should go for a shower only.
With an apartment that small I would lose the tub. Tubs in small apartment bathrooms are often too shallow for a good soak--unless you are extremely petite--so even the pro-tub contingent wouldn't have much use for them. I am over six feet tall and the small tub in my bathroom is useless. I would love to take the tub out and install a shower, just so I wouldn't have to step in and out of it.
@littlekris
I haven't been really sick in years, but in that case I would probably want a hot shower, rather than soak in my own plague-ridden filth. ;p
We just had our early 90's-style master bath remodeled, and replaced the never-used soaking tub with a large, custom shower. The shower that was originally in the bathroom was a tiny, pre-fab fiberglass unit with a shower curtain. Considering my husband and I shower at least once a day, we decided that it made more sense to give up the tub and go with a luxurious shower instead. If we'd had the space we probably would have kept the tub, but it just wasn't possible. The spot of the former shower now has custom cabinet and counter space giving us some extra storage that we really needed.
We do have concerns about resale problems, but since we plan to be here indefinitely, we decided we should enjoy our home the way we want it and worry about any resale issues when the time comes. That being said, we do have 3 bathrooms, and our hall/guest bath does have a standard tub, which should satisfy someone with small children.
I've owned 3 houses with large tubs in the master bath, and in over 15 years I only used each tub a handful of times, and certainly don't miss the tub cleaning!
Interesting thread! So many strong opinions!
I'm 61, female, use a tub only when achey. We have five, count them, five bathrooms (including one lavatory) in our new house -- my 3/4 bath, his 3/4 bath (with the adjoining bubble tub room) plus the guest bath and the full bath off the basement family room -- so it can function as another bedroom if we sell. (Nobody should have to climb two stories to take a bath/shower.)
In three years I have used the bubble tub (Air tub) maybe 7 or 8 times, my (male) domestic partner not at all. I never take soapy bubble baths, only soaker baths with Epsom salts, usually AFTER taking a shower for cleaning purposes first.
A (male) friend just found a new apartment and the deal clincher was the claw-foot tub! Had to have one!
Everybody is different. I do think tubs are essential for kids, but in a tiny condo, I'd say more optional. More hotels (not that I see that many!) seem to have only showers than in the old days, so tubs might be a luxury that can be done without for space concerns. (But obviously, not for everybody!)
I'm trying to wrap my head around people who are worried about bathing their dogs in a 250 sq foot apt. 250 sq feet is about the size of my living room (and I live in an apartment, not a house). I cannot imagine living in a space that small, but I realize that in NYC that is a reality. Living there with dogs that need a bathtub????? Wow!
We took out our tub for a shower because I had issues with the tub, and it was worth it for the increased freedom I get from it. It's also a tiny bathroom, so removing the tub dramatically increased the floor space. I really don't care what it "might" do to the value of the house. I'd rather enjoy my home how I can and how I want while I own it.
I cannot imagine home being home without a tub. No way would I want to live without a tub.
Interesting that you're going to switch the shower curtain for doors. I've done the reverse three times and far prefer curtains. I machine wash the shower curtains, but never got the doors to look really clean. Happily, the newer models of shower doors look much easier to clean.
(I bathe nightly)
I would never buy a home that didn't have a tub - I don't even want a motel room without one. But, you only need one buyer - someone looking at super small studios should know there will be compromises. I think you should make yourself happy first, unless you are planning on selling in the next 2 years. If you are selling soon - you need to ask a real estate agent that's intimate with your neighbourhood.
I plan to do a bathroom reno next year and will probably keep and reglaze the tub for resale value. Even though what I really want is the shower/steamroom combo.
Our master bath has a huge soaking tub that hasn't been used in at least 5 years and a small shower. I'm saving up to take out the tub and get a larger shower.
I had the same problem when I re-did my bathroom. I never really cared about bathtubs, but was very concerned about resell.
In the end, I put in a bath/shower combo because I didn't want to put anyone off... and I ended up LOVING the tub!
To make my tiny bathroom look spacious, I went with a glass panel instead of a shower curtain.
I grew up with both options but as an adult I prefer a bath over a shower. When I have the option I will almost always take a bath. Sadly my current rental does not have one.
In my opinion...
Clawfoot or other deep tub w/shower > shower only (even if nice open shower) > shallow tub and shower combo.
I haven't taken a bath in over 6 years. That's why going to a hotel is special. You can take a bath and someone else will clean it for you.
ppl with kids generally prefer to have a tub for various stages of bathing for the first few years.
I'm in real estate and I don't think it would affect value all that much. There will ALWAYS be something "missing" from your condo, whether it's a tub, windows, a particular layout in the kitchen, closet space, whatever. It all depends on what the individual buyer is looking for. Do what makes you happy. The one thing I would suggest is doing a built-in bench in the shower. That way a girl will still have a place to shave her legs, and you can sit there and steam up when you have a cold.
Although I always thought I would have said, make sure you put a tub in, I'm surprised to say to you - do what makes you happy! I am 50 always have showers and as long as it had a built in bench, like JulieJZZ above suggests, I would be happy happy. Baths are nice but with my arthritic knee if I got in, I would never get out! Hope the reno goes really well!
I vote no tub, and I have a three year old. Tubs just use up waaay to much water. Especially the ridiculous oval 'garden' tubs that I'm stuck with in this rental.
As a Female living in New York City, I can tell you right now that regardless of how nice your space is, if it did not have a bath tub, I would NOT be buying. New York women need a bath tub. If not to soak after a long hard day of running around the city in heels, then simply for the bathing space require when shaving our legs, dying our hair, etc. We just need a tub.
No tub is a dealbreaker for me. I even have a tub on my RV.
The tub is the first thing I look at in any bathroom. Make it a deep, comfy one.
I know you've decided to keep you full tub, but have you thought about a Japanse style soaker tub? Only issue is that you can't fully lie down, but at least you can be submersed!
Glad you kept your tub. Not having one would be a deal breaker for me if I was home hunting.
I wondered the same thing when I was renovating my kitchen...I asked the GC and he basically said, it wouldn't lower my value as long as I had one tub. My condo has two full bathrooms and I wanted to take the tub out of master bathroom and make it a spa shower. Hope this info helps. I think it also might depend on the state you are in.
Keep the tub. It will increase your resale options. Yes, there are folks (both men and women) who only want a shower, but they, too, may be thinking about resale value. You really do lower your buyer pool when you remove a tub.
If anything, I'd see if you could add a new tub!
I asked this exact question to a NYC realtor/broker & her answer was that it wouldn't affect the value at all as long as it was done well. I've been considering replacing the tub in my own 1 bedroom apt. & had the same concerns you have.