Some people will call it sacrilege, but I think it's a great idea and I like the way you are proposing to crop it. If you felt guilty you could have a photographer shoot it and then work from a high-quality reproduction of the image, thus keeping the original intact (even if it just sits in your attic for the next 20 years!).

It's your water color so of course you can do with it what you like. What you could also try is just cover the rest of the painting with a larger matte and keep the smaller cut out. That way if you change your mind, you can always have the original.
There is an example of what I mean over here
http://www.potterybarn.com/products/wood-gallery-oversized-mat-frames/?pkey=x|4|1||10|frame||0&cm_src=SCH

If you need to ask then why bother?

My mother had 2 similar works that she had the same issue with (but they were Audobon folio pages so cutting them down would definitely impact the value). She did exactly what @Aster suggests and they both look great.

If you tried and didn't like it, you could always cut down the large mat to fit a smaller frame later on, so it wouldn't be a complete waste of money...

The artist in me cries "don't do it!", but to be honest it's your watercolor, and you should do what makes you happy with it! If reducing the image to the seagull fits better with your decor, then there's no reason you shouldn't be able to make it into exactly what you want.

One suggestion I might have, though, is folding it up instead of cutting it, simply because I see the artist's signature down there in the corner, and in the future it might be nice to remember who painted it.

I definately second Trish's comment though - have it appraised before you do anything, just to be sure.

If you do the oversized mat solution, be sure to use UV filtering glass. It'd also affect the value if the focus was sun-bleached and the rest unfaded!

Artists' works are protected from "intentional distortion, mutilation, or other modification" under the Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990.

ps: also, if you have space for a larger frame, I might suggest leaving some more white space around the bird than in the mat that you're showing here. It might make a more dynamic composition.

it's a $20 print that you saved from being tossed in the garbage. it is yours, then, to repurpose as you want! my .02 is to cut away.

seriously, a watercolor still of a seagull is likely not going to net you the jackpot at antiques roadshow.

c22, you are right about the terms of the act but not all works of art are covered under it.

"VARA provides its protection only to paintings, drawings, prints, sculptures, or still photographic images produced for exhibition only, and existing in single copies or in limited editions of 200 or fewer copies, signed by the artist."

It's doubtful that this work would fall under the protection of the act based on this language.

you could always make a copy of it to crop and do whatever ?

i'm an artist. it's just fine. if someone paid for my piece they can do whatever. granted, i don't want to watch or know about it. lol

I think the idea of copying (or photographing) is a cool idea - especially if you are somewhat hesitant to cut it up. That way if you regret it, you'll still have the original. But I love the idea of making it work for you!

I agree with sally305, have a reproduction made. It's not expensive or hard to take it to FedEx Kinkos or something and have them make a color copy on quality paper, and then you can do with it what you want.

you say you are a modern gal; your gull is much more modern with the artist's intention to render his perch. You asked the question because you know you are significantly changing what the artist intends. The value question here has more to do with your connection (or lack of one) to the art than it does to monetary value.

That said, the suggestion of a larger matte and keeping the original intact will at least avoid sacrilege and desecration.

Well first of all, if you were confident that cropping the watercolor is a good idea, you wouldn't ask this question and would have done it anyway. This is the first sign that suggests that cropping the artwork is probably *not a good idea*. The second one is that the proposed crop makes the watercolor look as if it was made after a photo taken by an amateur photographer with a 35mm camera, which in my view cheapens it a lot. There is nothing that I can see about the proposed crop that is better than the original so I can only offer this advice: Don't crop it! But replacing the mat would be fine; as a matter of fact I am about to do just that with a early 20th century drawing.

CUT IT! As is, it sits in the closet; cropped, it hangs proudly on your wall. A smart artist, especially the original one, would urge you to follow your instinct to tailor the piece to your liking. Art isn't complete until it is viewed, and I bet the creator would be proud that you are renewing the life of the piece.

I agree with MarianneT. No matter what you choose to do, make the opening in the mat larger. Give that bird a little more head-room. I think it'll strengthen your whole composition.

OK, thanks for talking me down. I just couldn't get over the "wrongness" of cutting up a piece that someone put a lot of work into. I'm going to carefully remove it from the frame and color photo copy it. That way I'll have the original to save and a copy to do whatever I want with. Maybe I'll hate the new cropped version and I'll be happy I didn't ruin the original work!

Thanks for your opinions! It really did help.

I'd say don't let these people frighten you!

It's your to re-purpose, if you hadn't brought it it may well be in the trash right now so think of it as recycling. I buy old art books at my used bookstore and crop pictures I like to frame and hang around my house all the time. there's no shame in it at all.

The likelihood that this is some sort of forgotten masterpiece that you will destroy is so tiny it's hardly worth worrying about.

Also, IMHO you shouldn't be worried about "significantly changing what the artist intends" as the poster above me suggests. If you liked what the artist indented, you wouldn't want to crop it. YOU intend something a little different and since it's for YOUR house than that's great! Anyone who says otherwise shouldn't listen to music remixes or radio edits or watch movies edited for length either.

Your home is your art space so don't hold back.

If this painting isn't by a listed artist and it's value to you or anyone else is only 20 bucks, then do what you will with it. Not all art is good art, just like not all wood is good wood.

I'm an artist. Once a piece leaves me, I have no control over it. If it makes you happier to have a smaller piece that is only a bird then go for it.

I wouldn't fold it though. Just take it to a framer who can do the cuts cleanly and find a mat that you love.

I am an artist myself and work in watercolors a lot. What I see in this piece that you have is a very technically beautiful, and the beauty of the flow of different colors is in the wood the bird is standing on. So if I were to reframe it, and I would do it, I reformat my compositions all the time (but yes make sure it is not super valuable first) So if I decided to reframe it, would cut out a large square and crop it tight just a little about the birds head and include a lot of the wood. Try that with paper around it and resend it here. You will see how much more modern it would be.

Sacrilege? I don't think so. You are simply changing the focus of the piece, not altering any significant deeper meaning. The massive chunk of wood serves no purpose other than to distract from what had to be the intended subject, the seagull. The artist seems to have painted the literal, which is not nearly as beautiful as the altered focus you are proposing. I think your 'edit' improves the artistic quality of the work and preserves the most important feature. Artists are not perfect, unflawed beings and we have no problem with writers subjecting their work to editors.

That said, matting out the rest, as suggested above, would allow you to have your seagull and artisitic conscience too!

Let us know what you do!

Oh, and do a very wide matte around it in a deep prussian blue.

I think the frame it's in isn't helping matters. You might just need to reframe.

I would keep the work as is and reframe it in a simpler frame with a plain white mat that matches the color of the paper. This will give it more "air" as the focus will be on the watercolor, not the framing (which is currently competing with it visually, and perhaps winning.)

As an artist, I don't think you should chop up the painting - and I'm not just saying that on reflex. Despite what you might think, the charm of the work is not just the focal point - the bird - but also the entire context it is in. It inhabits its own world. The composition on the log is more interesting overall - your eye moves around and takes in the details and brush work - and it makes the empty white space at the top become active as background and air, not just an empty page.

PS - counter-intuitively, you might even consider going for a larger frame that allows for wider margins in the mat. Go to a gallery or museum some time and see how they frame their works on paper. Usually, the borders are a minimum of 3 inches. This lets the image have breathing room rather than getting cramped by the frame.

if you want to crop it down, go ahead, museums sell prints of details from their paintings all the time. if it were me i would keep the size of the watercolor, because i love the proportion of the bird sitting on the large pier piling. to modernize it don;t use a mat, and use a museum frame. this is a clean simple way to present artwork.

As a framer, I can't recommend cutting it down. Regardless of how you feel about artistic intent or whatnot, original art is irreplaceable. If it has any value, the value is greatly diminished by cutting it down. It is for that reason that a lot of framers probably won't cut it for you as another person suggested above... at my shop we aren't even allowed to cut someone's children's scribble because if we damage it or don't cut it JUST right, there is no fixing it. Even if it doesn't have any particular value, once you cut it you can never go back if you decide later you want it to be bigger or incorporate the post.

I agree with the suggestion of copying it and framing a cut-down copy. The suggestion of just giving it a large mat that is cropped in to the bird is good too (and you could use the un-cut original that way), and gives a very modern look.

I know you want it to go with your decor better, but what I always tell my framing customers is this: your decor will change over time, and if you alter your picture to try to shoehorn it in, you may regret it later if you do something permanent to it. I think your watercolor is pretty but terribly misframed, but I also think that a stark white mat doesn't do anything for it either. If you have the time, take it to a couple frame shops and ask for mat color/frame suggestions. Everyone will suggest something different, and you may find ideas you like that you never would have thought of. Good luck!

Copy it, cut the copy and donate the original to a charity shop. That way you get what you want, the charity benefits, and someone else gets a painting,too.

Arrgh, I wouldn't do this... Sure, it may not be valuable, but I think you'd be going against the principle of buying original art in the first place. I think the current frame and matting job isn't helping your frustration with the watercolor. If you were to remat it in, say, a mat the color of the watercolor paper, the end result would look fresher to you.

I'm constantly reframing (it completely changes the look of any piece of art), but I never crop--with scissors. You can certainly achieve a cropped "look" with different matting. And the photocopy idea? Not so much. It defeats the purpose of buying original artwork. Do you love this piece so much that you're willing to hang a print???? I doubt it, or you wouldn't be asking if it's okay to cut it. Honestly, just reframe. You'll be so pleasantly surprised. (By the way, the current frame is horrible, not to mention the triple matting. Take it out and you'll see what I mean.)

You're changing the nature of the painting a lot by cropping it. The original leaves a lot of space around the bird. He looks small in a big world, to put it very simply. When you crop it, he looks very hemmed in. You totally lose that sense of space.

Just something to consider. I don't think it has anything to do with modern or traditional tastes.

hey its yours, and its your place...u can do whatever makes u happy. If cutting it up into a collage makes u happy thats fine, if drawing a hat on the bird makes u happy thats fine too. Listen only to what makes you smile in your own place. Its like buying a car...keep it simple or pimp it up....its yours (^_^)

Hi Sara,

I know this has been answered already ad nauseum, but as I am an arts professional (aka I work for a museum) I thought that I should weigh in.

My job is to have allegiance to works of art. Even if it's against the later wishes of an artist or collector. Even if, market-wise, the piece has no value. It is still an art object and deserves to be respected as one. The artist didn't just paint the bird, he also intended for it to be viewed with that negative space that you're covering up or defacing.

Prints and posters are fair game to change as you wish.... but I would really ask you to think about cutting down this watercolor. You have no idea how many masterpieces have been cut into pieces and lost because they weren't in fashion or the owner thought they had full reign.

Sorry to be bad cop! Like some of the other posters mentioned, though, a thick mat and a modern frame can do alot...

Good luck!!

I know my post has a preciousness about it (speaking for the artist's intension), but there is another looming question: why would you want to look at art every day that you don't love? And there is a lot of foolishness about "listed" artists and so much about the money. If the art compels you, hang it, look at it and love it. If it is second rate, look at something more interesting and clear the space and clear your mind.

OK, I agree with the "copy but don't crop the original group", both as someone who has an art background myself, and as someone who used to work in an art museum.

Regional artists are often not famous elsewhere, but have a decent market value in their own areas. That $20 painting (NOT a print, an original signed watercolor, therefore one of a kind) might be worth several hundred dollars. Not millions, but would you want to destroy even a $500 asset?

I'd take the original to a local art museum (by appointment) and see if they can help identify it for you. If it can't be traced and you can't determine that it has more value, at least the art work is intact. I'll bet you could easily sell the original for more than $20 even if not for hundreds (or more). People like me refuse to hang reproductions and are always on the lookout for affordable original art.

Me again!

I should have known that going to the AT readers would result in many differing opinions! First off, I definitely will NOT be cutting the original - so that's off the table. I'm going to take the whole thing into a few good framing places and get opinions like a few of you suggested. I completely agree about the current frame job, it's pretty awful. I'm sure with a new matte and frame it will look like a completely new piece and can find a nice spot in my home. (But I am going to make a photo copy of that bird, just in case I decide to frame just that portion in the future.)

Thanks again,
Sara

I read that you already decided but I want to say that I agree with Anusha 73. The vast emptiness above the gull makes it feel very dated. I would play around with various cropping versions with your computer before you come to a final decision. And I have to say that I think a larger mat is a damn good solution. fwiw.

If you decide to go with the mat idea, just think, years from now, in some estate sale, some new person will get a suprise and a decision of their own!

Kinda puts things in a different perspective....

Surprise that is.....(note to self: edit then post....)

Just fold it into the shape you want instead of cutting it, then technically it's okay. ;)

SO funny that the audience here is so calm... if this question were about a BOOK, good lord the outcry!

i'd scan it and make a cropped copy of what i wanted. i do think it's wrong to destroy artwork, and cutting it up in this case would be destroying it

Hi! I thought i should put my 2 cents in, as I paint (watercolor mostly) and have started selling my own stuff here and there.

While I understand that you want to crop it, I actually think it looks much better (and even more modern) as it is, completely intact. When cropped the eye wanders down to what is left of the stump and can't focus. The painting was made the way it was for a reason.

If I were to happen to see my art butchered in someone's home (and that's really what you are doing to it) I would at first be a little offended, but would probably get over it. I mean, it's yours and you paid your dime for it so you should technically be able to do what you want with it. However before you go hacking away at someone's original work I urge you to think about what you are doing. You say you want something more modern and want to crop it because of this, but I think if you were to put it in a more modern frame and mat without cropping you would likely achieve the same results.

Please don't cut it up!! It looks better as is!

http://www.abbeycatchat.com

i like the way the bird looks in the original; it's just horribly matted and framed. Just get a more contemporary frame and mat & believe me, it will look great!

I like the idea of hiding most of it behind a big mat, as sexyartbeast and many others suggested. I'm an artist and I don't have a problem with the idea of cutting an image down, but I do think you might have second thoughts with this specific piece.

As a (former) museum professional, I say cut it if you want. It is unlikely that this piece has any serious monetary value, and there IS a lot of Antiques Roadshow-driven hype about listed artists, etc. And don't scan it; there is a huge difference between an original painting and a scan. It is too bad you'll lose the signature when you cut it.

But just cut it if you want. I'd probably do the same. Here are some suggestions for a better result:

---Go with a larger frame and mat.

---Your mat opening should be larger. Right now, it feels like that poor gull is being held prisoner by the mat. If you give it a bit more room to breathe, it will be much more interesting and modern.

---The mat width should be larger on the bottom. For example, if the mat width is 5 inches on the top and sides, go with 7 or 8 inches on the bottom. Work with your framer to get the right proportions.

---Go with a white mat (archival of course). Try to match the color of the watercolor paper. If that is not possible, choose another white or ivory that works well with it.

---Get as thick a mat as possible (heavyweight). Don't do multiple mats with this image.

The least expensive way to get something "custom" framed is to go this semi-custom route. Choose a standard sized frame you like. Then have a mat cut to fit that frame and your image. This usually means you need to get a much larger frame than you originally though. Most of the time frames and mats are too small (in my opinion).

Antique Roadshow 2025:

"Wow so you got this at an estate sale for $20. This is a very important american piece.....

It is worth $60,000, except you butchered it and I'll give you $2.50 for it. Historians will want your hide."

Check value first.

I would live with it for a while like a 6 months or more then see how you feel. Move it around to get a different perspective. Its lovely and it might grow on you. Nice to have a mix of styles too.

As an artist, I want people to be happy with the art they buy from me. So go ahead and cut or fold or crop.

Your proposed cropping though... I think it should be either bigger or smaller. Either more stump or none.

Take NeverendingCatParade's advice.

For a seagull painting, it's actually pretty nice. But trust me, it's not going to ever be on Antique Roadshow. You'll be lucky if you can get $20 for it again someday. That being said, I think if you like the painting you could either reframe it with something fresher and more your style, or you could go with your proposed crop. I'm not against cutting things up if it prolongs or gives new life to something. You should do what feels right to you. And consider that it will cost considerably more to reframe it in its full size if you choose not to crop it. Good luck!

Update on the pic.

I took it out of that God awful frame and already like it 100 times better! There was a good inch or so more of the pier at the bottom that had previously been covered with the mat and a date "1974". Now I can "see" better what it will look like when the frame isn't such a distraction.

Arroyo, I will take your suggestions to heart - thanks for the advice! I think it's going to look fantastic when framed properly.

Sara

Sara, I'm so glad you took it out of that horrible frame. Now all you need is a heavy, quality mat that matches the watercolor paper, and a simple wood frame. No cropping required. I wish I could see the finished product!

sara, think about this idea, no mat, just professionally framed. clean and up to date.

sorry to add to this super-long post [that it seems like you already have your answers/mind made up about]. i'm glad you're going the "make a copy route" - that way you can do whatever and it can be reversed. from a pure aesthetic standpoint - the bird looks more modern in the full image - cropping it would actually kind of date it - make it a little claustrophobic. i recommend the large mat idea if you prefer the cropped image. if not - i would go so far as to say to get a 4" mat at for this - if you have room of course.

there are resources - you can go to places like americanframe.com and upload a jpeg of your image and you can "try it out" on all different kinds/sizes/colors or mats and tons of frames. its really simple and can help you to visualize what you want in the end. if you don't want to head to a frame shop of course - since obv you can do that in person...

[for the poster who recommended no mat - that is fine - but then they cannot put glass/plexi over it if they ever want to remove it. any image be it painting, photograph, reproduction, etc - if it touches the glass runs the risk of sticking to it and being ruined - just an FYI for anyone who may not realize]

sneakers--

Great point about matting.

I'd add that there *is* a way to frame without a mat, and without the subject running the risk of sticking to the glass...

Your framer can include a spacer between glass and mount.

This is often how a work on paper can be "floated" on a back mount, with the edges revealed.

But yes, true that mats are not merely decorative additions. They are, as you say, primarily a functional feature.

For the record, I am ALWAYS a fan of the oversized mat... and always a fan of 8-ply mat board.

i'd just open the mat in the same sized frame around what i'd like to show. no need to cut the watercolor and you will have a more interesting piece because of the off center matting

It's rong. And sacrilege. Just reframe it and don't destroy the proportion of the artwork.

Unlike MarianneT, the artist in me cries "do it!"

Art is in the eye of the beholder. Go for it.

I honestly don't think that's a better crop. Its tight to the bird and unoriginal, stale. The actual painting without a crop is really quite nice.