One of the main problems with pillowtops is that you can't flip them. The manufacturer sells this as a benefit ("You never have to flip it!"), but the problem is--you can't flip it. This reduces the longevity and durability of the mattress. (however, there are some double-sided pillowtops...I don't know if these would be in your budget)

I would opt for a flippable, firm mattress that you then top with a feather bed or a pillowtop mattress pad, which allows you to customize the comfort level of the mattress as it (and you) age(s).

I tried a feather bed topper - that's the one that got lumpy. It appeared to have good channels to keep everything in place but...it doesn't.
Got it at Macy's - maybe I got the wrong one.

Subsequently went with a new firm mattress with a built-in pillowtop. It's stable. It's perfect. We loves it, for seven years now.

mine was 2K, with a 20 year guarantee
yeah, I went with a "protien" pick
it is flippable with pillowtop on both sides
flippable is important!

Some pillow tops are removable so that they can be fluffed in the dryer under the no heat cycle. And depending on what they are filled with, can be laundered or dry cleaned as well. And if the mattress is not flippable, then it should be rotated 180 degress every few months to add to it's life span.

I just bought a Sterns & Foster queen size pillow top. This is my first "real" bed purchase. The mattress itself is 15 inches of heaven so I have to literally climb up into it, as it sits on a frame and boxspring.

I actually purchased the floor model, since I never would have been able to afford the thing at its regular price ($3k). I bought it for a third of that. Stretch your budget to its limit because you'll never regret spending what you can to get the best quality mattress. Think of how much of your day is spent in it...that thought alone motivated me to redirect some of my cable budget to the bed budget.

I sleep on my side and a pillow top mattress is tailor made for that type of sleeper. The first few nights I slept on it, I used my feather bed with it because I was still waiting for the mattress pad's arrival, but now I'm just using the pad and its given it a less-lumpy feeling than I had with all the feathers. Plus the beauty of mine is that the pillow top portion is cashmere. Its amazing.

I've only had the thing for two weeks, but I've never slept better in my life. It has a ten-year warranty so I feel reasonably safe with that in hand. Good luck!

I have a pillowtop that has the pillowtop on both sides, meaning that I can flip it! I believe it is from Kingsdown. We have had it for about 5 years now and its been great.

Back in 2001 I bought a $1200 queen size Kingsdown Avignon mattress set and it is amazingly comfortable and supportive! It has a nice, plush pillowtop on both sides and I flip it every few months and it's just as comfortable as the day I bought it. While the pillow top is thick and plush the underlying coil mattress is very firm so my lower back and all my pressure points are supported and cushioned. I was also able to get a split box spring which made moving it so much easier.

Other than my Kingsdown, the only other bed I have ever been totally in love with is my parents' King size Tempurpedic mattress. That mattress is everything they say it is and you truly can not feel your partner turn over or move. If you like the Tempurpedic mattress you can always get a more affordable Tempurpedic mattress topper for your existing bed.

Best of luck!

Oops! I just realized you said you've ruled out memory foam...so just ignore my comments about it!

Although I see you're planning on getting a mattress and boxspring, so this doesn't apply to you, for information for others one negative we experienced with getting a double sided pillowtop with a platform bed was that the wooden platform slats cut into the pillowtop material and caused rips. We ended up replacing the mattress with a one sided pillowtop.

Besides clothes and shoes, my biggest splurge has been my queen size pillow top mattress with boxspring. I recommend to things:a low profile frame and a mattress pad. The frame will let you get into the bed w/out any ladder (i got dizzy with the regular one) and the pad will extend the pillow top fabric.

I'm so glad I chose to get a firm regular mattress and use a separate feather bed topper---I can re-plump and launder the feather bed as needed, and flip the mattress regularly. One note--even high-quality feather beds will have pokey feathers once in a while--put your mattress pad OVER the feather bed, under the sheet to solve that. It barely reduces the feel, no pokies and keeps your featherbed fresher (all the sweat we release each night, ick, --wash the pad each week with the sheets).

good luck!

Yay for Kingsdown! My husband and I bought ours five years ago--after many years of sleeping on a ridiculously firm mattress--and it has been one of the best investments we've ever made. It's not a pillow top, but it is plushy (NOT mushy!) and super-supportive. I think Kingsdown is often overlooked because they don't have the same name recognition as, say, Sterns & Foster, but they make a great product.

O.K. This topic makes me nuts. I have an extra firm old-fashioned mattress, 9 inches deep and perfect. I bought it a year and half ago but now I have a BIG problem. I cannot find a fitted sheet to fit because they are all manufactured for 15" plus pillow-tops. And I am an absolute stickler for a tight-as-a-drum bottom sheet. Call me crazy, but if you want to find linens to fit your bed, you may want to consider the pillow-top. Perhaps I'll try a feather bed top but I suspect it won't give me enough depth either. I suspect I may have to get custom sheets made or if anyone has any tips, please let me know! Obsessed in West Hollywood.

I have the select comfort (aka Sleep Number Bed) pillow top, and I LOVE it.

Don't have to flip it.

Stacie,
I have the same problem (and I use a featherbed...). Have you heard of sheet suspenders? http://www.sheetsuspenders.com/pages/1/index.htm

They might solve your problem.

The Heavenly Bed is a great mattress, and considering the investment Starwood has put into it (it is versioned for W as well) I would not fear durability. Also, if you can find anyone who works for Starwood, they offer a Friends & Family 30% discount.

We upgraded from a firm mattress/featherbed combo to a Stearns and Foster pillowtop and could not be happier. We've never, ever slept better.

I have both a plain firm mattress with topper and a pillow top mattress (we have two bedrooms and one is much cooler than the other so we switch bedrooms with the seasons - why don't they believe in A/C in California?)

The pillow topper is VERY comfortable and I have not noticed any depressions or lumpiness. It can be flipped so maybe that helps.

The plain mattress did have a feather topper, but I felt all of my free time was spent fluffing so I switched it for a memory foam topper.

Hi, Stacie -

(sorry - not about pillowtops, just about fitted sheets)

I grew up with a mother who was extremely fussy about how beds were made - she actually would not let us make our own beds!

Because all the mattresses in the house were extra-long, she never bought fitted sheets, only top sheets, and made the bed with expert hospital corners. To this day, she seems to disapprove of fitted sheets as a lazy shortcut.

So you certainly can get a tight-as-a-drum bottom sheet without a fitted sheet. It's all in the technique.

Sad to say, the technique doesn't really apply to futons, which are my preferred sleeping surface.

i vote for the firm mattress with the feather bed option...it is like sleeping in a cloud...and it keeps me warm in the winter and surprisingly enough, cool in the summer. Buy a good one - mine's from the company store - the cheap ones don't use enough down so the feather stems poke you...and for mattresses, 1800mattress...they bring 3 kinds so you can try the ones you like.

Some mattress buying tips: I recently shopped across NYC for a new mattress and learned it isn't hard to get overwhelmed. It's impossible to compare models because each store changes the names. After endless research and 'testing', I am thrilled with the Stearns and Foster that I've had for about 8 months. The euro-pillow top over a relatively firm mattress is the most comfortable thing I've ever felt. It's like sleeping in a 5-star hotel every night. The Stearns and Foster model I purchased from Sleepy's was the Ambassador (although their newest models' names are changing). After negotiations (for mattress only--not box spring), the price was about $1,150 including delivery, removal of old mattress set, and a mattress pad (always work with a manager--they have more pricing leeway). I can't imagine using a box spring with the mattress because you would need a ladder to get into bed given the 17" thickness. My b/f purchased a slightly plusher version called the Baroque for about $1400. I found it a bit warmer to sleep in and not as great for me (I like to sleep on my stomach so a firmer bed is better), but it's all-in-all an amazing thing to sleep on. Word of caution: Foam in top layers of mattresses may feel great in the store, but foam retains heat and can make you sweat all night. Ask salespeople about how warm a mattress gets when shopping because that's something you won't find out until it's already in your bedroom). One last hint: the mattress business is an annoying racket like car sales. Straight pricing is non-existent. So I say play the game back. If you delay delivery a couple weeks, go back to store a few days after the sale to cancel your order explaining the mattress is too expensive. The manager will further discount the price rather than lose the sale. It seems sketchy, but so is the way they sell. Be much nicer if a price tag meant what it said to start with.

thanks, everyone! the consensus seems to be that firm + featherbed is the way to go. once again, we chose to learn the hard way and bought a pillow top. it's the simmons beautyrest model that is the equivalent of the westin's "heavenly bed," and to go with we bought a plush mattress pad and chichi sheets from overstock.com. it's not flippable, but it is very difficult to find any flippable pillowtops (or regular mattresses, for that matter) these days unless you have more time and budget than we've got (guido - you are lucky!) - i think it's a conspiracy between the mattress companies and the mattress stores, myself.

anyway, we have high hopes for it, but we will reserve judgment for now. we got a great deal, so if it needs to be replaced sooner than later, i'll be sad but not devastated.

the one piece of advice i have for people is this: if you are willing to do some detailed research about mattress specs, and go to some showrooms to figure out what brands and softness ratings you prefer, it may be worth ordering your mattress from outside of NYC (or 1800Mattress, though I can't vouch specifically for them, there's another thread on them somewhere on AT). The prices here are uber inflated and NYC mattress salespeople are in the same league as apartment brokers - i found them to be of dubious trustworthiness (Sleepy's, for instance, pushes their worthless warranty like it's going out of style and their better business bureau profile is just shocking). it was easy for us to order online since we'd slept in the heavenly bed before and knew we liked it. in the end we ordered from a place in North Carolina (Sweet Dreams / www.sdmattress.com) where the prices were 2/3 of what Sleepy's wanted for the same products (even when you bargained them down).

so here goes nothing... i guess we'll be able to confirm or dispel the rumors ourselves. we'll let you know 8-10 years from now (we hope) how it went!

I've had two pillowtops, and they do not last nearly as long as the old-fashioned, plain mattress. Furthermore, the "pillow" part holds odors. A mattress salesman filled me in on why these have, unfortunately, become the new thing.

The early pillowtops were padded on both sides, and you could still flip the mattress as you would in the old days. But the padding compressed when it was flipped and, meanwhile, government requirements for non-flammability were tightened. So the mattress companies figured out that they could just pad one side (far cheaper), and the whole thing got out of control. Now we have 20" mattresses, and sheets don't fit right. And mattresses last only a fraction of the years they used to because they only have one usable side.
My current mattress was purchased two years ago. It already has a dipped top, even though we do flip it head-to-foot regularly.

When i bought my bed in 2002, I wanted it to feel like the Westin's heavenly bed, oh yes i did.

So I got a Spring Air pillowtop mattress/box spring, from Rockaway Bedding for about $1200.

MEH, MEH and MEH. 3 1/2 years later, I have a valley in the middle, ok, rather a slight depression, which is only super annoying when two people are in the bed. Buying sheets has always been a PITA. It's still comfy to me, 'cause it's my bed, but damn, is it high up.

So it's not gonna last me 10-15 years like I had planned when I bought it. My next bed will be a platform.

I bought the W's heavenly bed 5 or so years ago. Back then it was $850 delivered; I know prices have gone up since then. At any rate, the bed is glorious. And after over five years, the pillow top is still pillowy. It seems slightly used, but is still far more comfortable than any other bed.

What everyone says is true...if you stretch your budget a little on the mattress, you will not regret it. Ever. Then, in a year or so, you can upgrade your sheets and make your bed even more comfy. But spring for the W bed. It's worth it.

I have a Sterns and Foster Baroque Bed and I am having a hard time finding sheets that fit this pillow top bed properly. Anyone have any information on where to get proper fitting sheet sets? Thanks! Elisa

I have a chronic pain condition that means what I sleep on is very important! I've has Sealy's top-of-the-line double-sided pillowtop for four years now. We love it, but I'm considering getting a memory foam topper since that works even better. No lumps.

Both Bed, Bath & Beyond and Linens 'n Things have sheets that fit. I have 500ct cotton sheet and love them, too. *g*

Regarding Elisa's question about finding sheets for the Stearns & Foster bed. We bought an S&F bed, I don't remember the name (but it doesn't matter because they always change the name). Our mattress is ludicrously thick, and the free sheets we negotiated from the mattress store don't fit. We tried many and none fit. So we called S&F and they recommended Serta Best Fit Ultra Soft 300 sheets, available from JC Penney and elsewhere. Those are the sheets we are MOST happy with - they were great when we got them, but over time (a year or so) they've shrunk a bit. We might look into sewing something like "extensions" to the bottom to make it a bit deeper, but these mattress companies have gotten ridiculous with the thickness of the mattresses. We'll never again buy one so thick! I hope you get this message and I hope it helps. - Jason

Our silk and wool pillowtop Sealy Posturpedic King size mattress and box springs cost over 1,300, is barely 6 months old and already has two permanent butt-sags! We rotated the mattress and bought a faux-down topper, without much improvement. I am now back to stuffing a down pillow under my back to fill the sag "hole" on my side of the bed. The middle of the mattress feels like the bed did when we bought it; firm and cushy. I am now back to waking up with a weak and numb left foot and hip pain. I'm only 5'6" , 130 lbs, so excessive weight is not the problem. The sags are nowhere near 1.5 inches (WHAT A CROCK) , but I don't care, we're sending that sucker back ! My husband is a chemist who makes precursor bulk chemicals that are made into all types of foam padding, and he says the line about the padding molding to one's body is a bunch of hooey; the sag is failing springs. After reading y'all's comments, I'm getting a "firm" un-padded flippable mattress and adding my own padding topper. Should I try another Sealy??????? Is there another brand that's a better value?

We bought a luxurious Stearns + Foster king pillowtop bed in December 1999. The mattress has a pillowtop on both sides, so you can flip AND rotate it. We absolutely loved that mattress up until about a year ago, when the mattress started sagging in the spots where we sleep. I've started having lower back pain after about 4 hours of sleep at night. Lately I've been getting up to sleep on the couch--not a good thing. I don't know if it's just the pillowtop causing problems or what, but I'm really disappointed that this mattress didn't hold up for at least 8 years. I don't think I'll consider shelling out extra $$ for another Stearns + Foster when I think we can probably get a good mattress with longer lasting support for half the cost. If you're really concerned about durability, I'd suggest buying a medium to firm mattress and adding a removable featherbed or pillowtop if you want the extra cushiness. Good luck!

I found this thread while looking for some information on sagging pilliowtop matresses + back pain. I'm glad and relieved that I am not alone. We bought a Simmons Drucilla X Plush (non-flippable) a little over 3 years ago at Sleepy's for about $1200 (total). The first year was great. But now I am suffering from extreme low back pain and have resorted to layering my side of the bed with linens to firm up the matress under the fitted sheet. That only works a little bit, but the alternative is sleeping on the couch. I am furious that we will probably have to replace this mattress soon and am going to pursue the warrenty to the end. There is no reason why we should have to endure back pain after paying for this "top of the line" mattress. I don't even want this thing replaced with the same brand. I'll take a nice traditional, flippable firm mattress again any day. Even considering trying out an Ikea mattress, if only to avoid the BS at mattress dealers.

To all;

I have had chronic back pain for 10 years now!! Sleeping trouble is something I consider myself an expert in(unfortuently)!! I bought a new Sealy Posterpedic in 1999, it was firm but o.k., about 6 months in I started buying eggcrate foams and that helped alot, but still too firm, too many pressure points. When we moved, we got rid of my son's bunk bed (dbl bottom, single top) and he only needed the twin in his new room. Having only bought the dbl. 1 year before and having no storage I put it in between the boxspring and my mattress!! This made it a bit high, but awesome!!!! Extra cushion, yet still firm. However, I have over the years tried featheer toppers(they suck), memory foram toppers(too hot) and the sheets(buy one size up from your bed) queen sheet set fits quite nicely on a dbl.(dbl. stacked)Anyway as they time passed we developed the canyon hollow in the middle. You know the one where you go to bed snuggling and end up waking an hour later stacked in the middle!!! Waking many times to grab the edge and pull yourself out of the canyon in the middle or get out from underneath each other. So I snapped after going back and forth to the couch all night and we went out and bought a new one. We tried a Temperpdic, loved it for a very short period(still too hot) and although you sink in with support I am a princess and need that cloud feeling along with the support. So, now we have a Stearns and Foster Plaza Presidential set ($3000.00 CDN) but oh my god!!!! This unit is sweet, float like a cloud and yet firm support underneath, we got a queen and so all the queen sheets i have were deep pocket queen's, they still fit just a bit snugger and tend to slip off easier. So next sheet purchase will be a king set. I swear by the one size up rule for thick 15" or more mattresses. If you can't afford an S & F (we really couldn't) I will simply say, if what you have now isn't extremely bad(holes and springs sticking out)simply buy a cheap(I mean bottom line) mattress and slide it inbetween and take an extra year or two and buy an S & F then. A queen fitted sheet fits two dbl. mattress perfect with a 2" foam on top even. This new bed was worth the wait and then some.

Hi, we are forming the canyon in our non flippable simmons mattress. I recently bought a memory foam topper to see if that would solve the problem but I still feel the canyon. I see recommnedations to buy a firm mattress. Could I just flip my current one even though it's non flippable?

Has anyone tried a wool topper? I've always heard that they don't get lumpy like featherbeds, and don't sleep 'hot' like memory foam can. We just bought a very firm Simmons Back Care mattress, and want to get a topper for it, but I'm confused as to which one!

Has anyone tried the Spring Air pillowtop? It is supposed to be a "Never-turn" and has extra coil support at the hip and lumbar area, so this area of the mattress won't sag.

Having severe chronic back pain for a couple of years I decided a new mattress was better than suicide...husband's great idea to buy a GOOD memory foam topper to put over the mattress resulted in the same feeling as sleeping on the floor. I weigh 110 lbs and don't make a dent enough to need a memory. I hate the thing. My husband finds it better; he weighs 210 lbs. Weight might make a difference. I hate throwing away the small investment but need something better. Good to read all the info.

I have a chronic back problem and pain so I tried my best to purchase the best mattress set I could for my problem. We are now on our 3rd mattress in 1 year The first was a Sealy euro top which I really never slept on because it was full of mold, manfactured in New Orleans about the time of Katrina, who knew? The second another sealy pillow top for side sleepers, became depressed on one side several incehs, and developed a hump in the middle, which after 4 visits from the mattress co. they replaced as defective. This time I bopught a Stearns and Foster and it is not very comfortable but it is firm and not saggy.It is not a pillow top and you can turn it. I put an egg crate on it and it seems somewhat better still not sleeping throught hte night. What is the answer? I feel like going to sleep is pure torture.

Nice to find this website-very informative! Here is my experience: I bought a Westin Heavenly bed from Nordstrom-these have some pillowtop on them and are non-flippable. After just a month, I found myself sagging in the butt area--apparently formed a depression. I am only 5'4 130#. I could not go to sleep due to back pain or would awaken due to pain-started taking a lot of motrin! I was not expecting this for thinking I had invested in a good brand. I rotated the matress-after 2 weeks, formed another depression. Since I have a platform bed and did not buy the box spring, I do not have high hopes of getting any compensation from the warranty, but I will look into it. Nevertheless, I am shopping again for a new mattress, and this time I am looking for latex with little to no pillowtop and plan to add some kind of topper. This has been a nightmare...literally!

The pillow top mattress will last you just as long as any other mattress on the market. We love ours! Now the only thing you have to worry about is to Choose your bed sheet wisely. Correct pillow top bed sheets are like icing on the cake! ;)

I bought a double sided pillow top in 1998. I am having slight back problems so I decided that I needed a new mattress. I really want a double sided pillow top. Maybe I am old fashioned but the one sided pillow tops are are really made so you will have to buy a new mattress every 5 to eight year. That is not just my opinion, but was told that by a Macy's salesman. I have tried Longs bedding, Sleepy's and Macy's and found 1 double sided pillow top at Long's but the price is prohibitive like 2400, not including tax and delivery. None of the non flippable ones are any better than my two sided 14 year mattress. At the moment, I am just confused so I just bought a fibebed until I can find a mattress I like that I can afford. If anyone has any suggestions, please share. Thanks!