If you can return it w/ no cost to you, and don't mind the hassle, you can always check it out and decide 'in person.'

It's pretty?
You like it?
You can afford it?
Buy it!

Would you carry a knock-off Coach bag that you bought on Canal Street?

If yes, then buy the chair.

As a designer I cannot condone purchases of designs that have been ripped off. The manufacturer paid for the design and it is not fair that people buy designs that are stolen, just because they are cheaper.

I suggest finding a young designer's work and supporting them by purchaising thier furniture.

I say order it and exam it. It's just a piece of furniture and not a child. Knoll is insane for selling a chair and ottoman for the price of 2 sofas.

This whole authentic vs replica arguement is silly as most people can't afford to drop 3 grand on a chair so if you're fine with buying a more economical reproduction, you should do it without these critics judging you for willing to save money for something so superficial and instead using it for something more substantial and important.

Do what makes you happy!! These critics aren't buying you a chair, so ignore them and their judgements.

...it's overseen by an italian manufacturer.... that's too funny!!. Translation: somebody at the factory has an uncle who lived in Italy in 1945. Like they said before, you get what you pay for. If you think $2645 is overpriced for the Knoll version, this one is like $750 overpriced to what it should cost. The excitement of the savings you got, will fade as soon as you realize the poor craftmanship and the zero resale value. But don't listen to me. I'm a brand-a-whore.

joel maria pirela
blueantstudio.com

Everytime someone comes over and says "Ohhh, nice Saarinen Womb chair!", you're going to have to politely reply "Thank you, but it's only a knock-off" and then hang your head in shame.

I personally think it's absolutetly ridiculous to pay $3000 for a chair. You aren't paying for quality, you are paying for the name. Get the knock off. If it sucks, return it. I will only buy knockoffs. I refuse to support the masturbation that is buying the name brand things.

You ARE *partially* paying for quality... the original Womb chiar is a gorgeous piece of (complicated) construction and upholstery.

If you are so dostraught over the price of the original Womb, buy another design that's cheaper...

Would you pay $800 for a knock off coach bag you bought on canal street?
It just seems like a lot of money for something people are comparing to pleather handbags and Ikea chairs.

Kiesha--

She asked the opinion of "these critics" so it seems everyone's opinion here is valid, no?

abigailm--
It's just a question about authenticity... some people are so hung up on the label or look, they will flaunt a fake. And some who would *never* carry a knock-off bag or wear a fake watch wouldn't think twice about buying a knock-off Eames or Saarinen, and I've always found that interesting.

The repro on Canal would be $40... and the original bag closer to the $800, to make the comparison more fair.

Okay, I am of two minds on this subject.

#1) $2,600.00 is a crazy amount of money to spend on a chair. It is crazy in a really global way. How many people could be fed on that amount of money? Crazy.

#2) as a proud Finn myself, I have long been lusting for a genuine Saarinen womb chair (or tulip table or chair or....)

So since I can't come close to affording (or justifying) a $2,600.00 chair, I will either find one on Ebay, luck out at a clueless tag-sale or go without.

I like MichaelBailey's suggestion of finding a young designer to support. Not only are you spending less on quality and design, you are also forging your own trends.

I'm going to have to agree with --patrick (the other one)--

I would hate to see anyone pay $800 for a chair that will only last a few years, when s/he could save his/her money and buy the original and get a better-quality and longer-lasting chair. With something upholstered like that, it's much, much better to splurge.

Plus, if you decide you don't like it in a few years, an original will have great re-sale value on something like ebay or craigslist, whereas a knock off wont get you nearly the return.

If you don't feel comfortable paying the full price of the original, then definitely check out ebay (or the like) or try a different, more affordable style.

But no matter what you decide, be proud of your space. If you love it, then what do the opinions of others really matter?

Looking at the Paradign website, it appears that return shipping is free only if the product is defective. Otherwise the buyer is responsible for shipping AND a 20% restocking fee.

Assuming that is, that the young designer's hot new chair is also not $3000...

So, should people who *can* afford that amount (for that or travel or wine or fashion) forego what they can afford and donate all money to charity?

Let's try this perspective.

The Womb chair and ottoman are very nice design-wise, the question is, are they comfortable? Like yourself I am also in love with the chair, however, every time I visit DWR and sit in it, I'm completely unimpressed with the chair's construction and feel. The problem with many current contemporary furniture designs is they look great, but aren't particularly comfortable. So the question for you is: Can my space support a potentially uncomfortable and therefore seldom used piece? If not, perhaps you shouldn't buy it, if so, do I want to lay out a small or large ton of money for what is essentially furniture artwork. Or alternatively, maybe you can order the chair and ottoman from the Italian company with more comfortable upholstery.

obviously, nobody here actually knows how sturdy and well-made that knock-off actually is, so people are speculating ("only a couple of years", etc.) based on not much really.

It's really quite simple - since you can't afford to drop an extra 2k on this chair you should buy the knock-off if you really want that exact chair and live with the best quality you can afford - which is, in the end, what we all do.

Unless you can dig up a vintage original, I doubt the knock-off is going to be of a much worse quality than other chairs in that price range. You really shouldn't be comparing it to the original, quality-wise.

P(too), I agree that is kind of a silly argument. If I want to take a $6000 trip to Europe because I worked hard and want a nice vacation I'm not going to feel guilty because that money could have fed x number of people. I'm not an awful person, and I donate to charities, but buying some luxuries in life is something I'm not going to give up.

Brenda, my opinion is that what matters most is quality. I don't think we're comparing apples to apples here. If you were comparing two identical pieces of furniture, made in the same place using the same materials and same manufacturing method, that one be one thing. However, odds are that the knock-off was likely produced using inferior methods and materials. Odds are that the comfort and quality of the knock-off are not going to live up to the original.
If you prefer to pay less and compromise on quality, far be it from anybody to judge your decision. If you want a higher quality piece though and don't want to pay for a new Knoll version, keep your eyes out for deals on originals on ebay and Craigslist. I know I have seen several for hundreds less than a new one.

I think this is an interesting dilemma. While on the one hand, it is ripping off a designer, on the other, I'm guessing that the vast, vast majority of the people buying an $800 knockoff would never actually spring for the $3k version, so I'm not sure that it's really eating into the original designer's business.

I also remember that the infamous Jonathan bought a leather sofa from a Chinese manufacturer on Ebay and was very pleased, so I think the assumptions about quality may not be necessarily justified. A lot of mid-range manufacturers have products made in China now, so while it might not be "Knoll quality," it's not necessarily going to be Ikea quality, either.

I could sort of see the argument against buying knock-offs because it's like downloading music illegally--the original designer's intellectual property is stolen and s/he isn't being compensated for it.

However, I think the analogy breaks down because the audience for the knockoff (chair, purse, whatever) is not generally the same as that for the original. By which I mean, many people who download music illegally could afford to buy the album for $10 on iTunes, so their actions are directly affecting the musician because if they weren't doing the stealies, they'd be buying it legitimately. By contrast, a lot of people who might buy an $800 knockoff would never buy the $2,500 original, so they aren't actually hurting the designer by buying the knockoff.

And since you aren't paying the price for "Knoll quality," you may be getting a chair worth $800, which is not really so bad. Just saying.

Everything is relative. What is expensive to us is cheap to others and what's cheap to us is expensive to others. I work in a very specific niche of industrial design and I get my products knocked-off on regular basis and they sell for 95% off my price with crappy quality. So, yes, i have a vendetta against the knock-off industry. In fact, a small post I did on my blog in regards of this, got the attention of an Emeco executive and he decided to contact me in that regards.

http://blueantstudio.blogspot.com/2007/03/target-vs-designers.html#links

At the end, buy what you want, but don't let it be a knock-off!

regards,
joel maria pirela

We actually purchased the womb chair from knoll. It IS expensive..but it's something we believe we'll have forever. We think of it as a family heirloom that will passed down to our kids at some point and we know it will last that long.

The knock-off will last a couple of years....before you have to replace it with something else.

Just need to ask yourself how much you love the chair.

Fiona, jinx! (Or, great minds think alike.)

It is the unfortunate business that furniture (and clothing) and other, designers are in. Knock offs will happen, right or wrong, and people will buy them, right or wrong. It sort of is what it is with widespread use, or misuse, however it is that you feel.

Me, personally, I'd much rather have the original because in most cases it took much time, thought, and design work to the point where, if it's a classic, it is then something special to have and enjoy, as it has been tested by time in all areas of the piece, function, looks, materials, etc. (in most cases). I highly doubt the knock off can compete with the original in terms of durability and finishing details, and materials.

You shouldn't feel guilty, though, to get the knock off, not at all. You didn't steal the design, and produce it, it's there for anyone and everyone.

John H,
That's my thought process for most modern seating options! Although I love the look of many of the chairs featured on modern blogs, I just don't find them very comfortable. I don't have the space to waste on an artwork chair, so I've currently focused my modern design lusts on art prints and sideboards/dressers/tables.

Brenda,
I'm of the opinion that furniture is meant to be used. If you find the chair usable and will love it for years, save up and spring for the original because a knockoff will probably not wear as well; however, if this is an obsession that will fade within a year of getting the piece, scratch your itch with the knockoff. Someone made the very good point that you can resell an original, but it all depends on if you'd be willing to go through the hassle.

And if anyone knows where I can find moderately priced pieces done by young designers, please let me know! Most of the interesting designs that I see on blogs by independent designers are either prototypes not for sale or still too expensive for my Ikea/West Elm budget. I don't live in a city with a design school, so how would I find local designers?

Seems like a good deal. Get it!

I think it is disingenuous to compare the chair to a canal street counterfeit purse. In the case of the fake Coach purse, it is the actual coach trademark that is being counterfeited. If Coach has a design patent on the purse, then the canal counterfeit is also infringing the Coach design patent. Design patents have a fourteen year term from grant. After that, the design can be copied by anyone without infringing.

The "knock off" chair I assume does not have a fake Knoll or Saarinen or DWR label and therefore is not a "counterfeit". Having been around for more than fourteen years, the original Saarinen chair is no longer protected by a design patent (if it ever was). Therefore, the knock off is not "stealing" from the designer anymore than buying generic aspirin is stealing from the original patent holder for aspirin. Any good designer (or inventor) understands that their designs will ultimately find their way to the public domain.

The only issue, therefore, is quality. If the quality is fine, your guests will not object. If the chair is of low quality, you will be forced to explain to them the compromise you made.

the idea that people should pay more for good design is ridiculous. i think ikea's goal of affordable design for everyone is great, but they seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with quality. DWR needs to change their name, very little of their products are "within reach" of the average hard working person. there needs to be a happy medium where good design truly meets affordable prices, without a huge sacrifice in quality. the idea of supporting a young designer is great, but often their work is more expensive than classic pieces. i love modern furniture & design, but there is a very elitist attitude associated with it that i find very disturbing...

While I have sympathy for the "support the designer" argument, Saarinen is long dead, isn't he? If you buy a used Womb Chair, is that not supporting the designer?

And I'd also agree that the "if you can't afford the original chair, find a chair by an up-and-comer" to be unrealistic; the young designer is probably building the piece by hand, without economies of scale, the work of most designers are not affordable by normal people.

I lust for a Poul Kjaerholm PK-22 chair, but suspect I"ll never have it, because I'm too poor for an original, and too wary of the knock-offs.

patrick (the other one) I disagree that it is a question of authenticity, it's a question of quality. getting an $800 handbag for $40 is a good deal because getting a handbag for $40 is a good deal. It is an added bonus that it looks like something fancy.
Getting a chair for $800 is simply not all that good a deal. she would still be paying a lot of extra money for the name, just to a Chinese company instead of to Knoll. if it were $200, it'd still be a knock off, but at least it'd be a really good deal.

On knockoffs, or lessor quality:

I bought a Natuzzi sofa about 18 months ago, It was a modern design and made of thick black leather. I bought it on clearance so I figured they were going to quit making it. They did. Shortly thereafter Ikea began selling the exact same sofa, now called the Arild. I don't know if Ikea bought the rights to the design or what, but except for the materials it is the exact same sofa. The price is about 40% of the Natuzzi version, and slightly less than I paid on clearance.

http://tinyurl.com/va9oq

I went to look at it, thinking maybe I could get the loveseat, which I wish I had bought when I got the sofa. While it looks identical it has inferior materials. While the leather is fairly thick on the Ikea version, it is not as thick as the original. The seat cushions are not nearly as comfortable either. I can drop into my sofa and sink into it a bit. I dropped into the Ikea version and jarred my neck. I was tempted to pick up one ond of the Ikea version, because mine weighs a freaking ton, but I did not.

I won't buy the loveseat, although I still keep an eye out for used Natuzzi one. I may buy the footstool shortly, because the foam on that is not as important.

I have been tempted to buy knockoff pieces off the internet, but this experience has shown me that I want to sit in anything before I buy it. To spend $800 on a chair, I want to know I am comfortable and that the materials are fairly decent.

I agree with Kiesha. You're debating a piece of furniture for goodness sakes! While I too love the occasional splurge and designer piece. I can't believe people go so far as being almost insulted by considering a knock off! It's just a materialistic thing after all.

And the argument that if you get the real thing, you'll have it forever and use it as an heirloom? - well, where's the guarantee you don't get sick of the real thing in a couple of years? Or that whomever you pass it down to will appreciate it like you do?

The sentiment behind an heirloom isn't necessarily the quality and brand of an item. I have a beat-up old arm chair from Russia that used to be my grandfathers. There's nothing about this piece in terms of looks, style or quality. But it was my grandfather's and that's where the meaning of it lies.

If an item you're passing down to generations has to meet a certain quality standard, you're passing down an investment, not an heirloom. Not that that's a bad thing - it's just a different concept that souldn't be confused.

I agree with Jaze and Flavorpacket--Saarinen has been compensated for the design. Since the issue is one of quality, I would go ahead and get it. If the quality isn't good enough, return it. But please get back to us and let us know what you thought.

nelsorp - I find the elitist attitude associated with modern furniture and design to be disturbing to. Maybe I'm just a goof - but I think design should be fun! That's the best part about Apartment Therapy - most of the time it is fun and interactive and friendly and not elitist. But walk into a Ligne Roset showroom and feel the fun fade away.
So where is the happy medium? $3000 for a chair would be considered a very expensive purchase to most people I know. IKEA is all affordable and I love their concept but the quality is lacking. The quality on many designer pieces from Knoll, B&B Italia etc. is fantastic but you pay dearly with the big bucks. There are medium price point options with very good quality (Room & Board, Crate & Barrel, etc.) but most of their stuff isn't exactly exciting. Where is the interesting, well-designed, good quality stuff at average prices?

For the people against the knock-off. Do you always by Bayer Aspirin, or Ziplock brand bags? Or the cheaper, often inferior generic equivalents? How about prescription drugs?

At the end of he day, I would rather see somebody buy a knock off of a good design that settle of a blandly design 'authentic' version at the local furniture emporium that they can afford.

At the very least, buying a knock off is getting the design aesthetic into circulation, and who knows, maybe even inspiring more sales of the original from guests who see it.

Not if that guy in Germany has anything to say about it!

what is amazing is that many of the designs that are so popular and expensive today were originally created in an effort to bring affordable, modern design to the masses who can no longer afford them. who is doing that today? not many people...

I think the original idea behind DWR was to make the classics readily available to the customers. They never mentioned being cheap or economic. That concept came out when the founder was located in London and couldn't find a local place with the furniture he was looking for. The "within reach" part means that actually you can touch the stuff, not that you can buy it! ; )

i just went through this decision making process re. White on White's knock off of hans wegner dining chairs. in the end i just couldn't do it. the quality really wasn't the same. and it was a case of so close, but not quite.
i'd rather go for a vintage version on craig's list or ebay. or even another vintage chair in the same vein. i have 2 chairs that are clearly riffs on (as opposed to rip offs of) saarinen's tulip chair, from the same period. i love them. and they are dissimilar enough that i don't feel i have to explain them. they are special in their own right.
regarding the ethics on spending that much on a chair - in my opinion, design becomes art at a certain point. and it's entirely valid to support artists and designers when and if you can. if you can't - let you're own voice shine through - i'm not sure that knock-offs fit into this.

Phaedrus . . . . I love the prescription drug analogy! I mean if we really want to respect the patent or the inventor, surely that view should carry over into realms outside of furniture making.

As for myself, while I have tended in the past to purchase only licensed products from Knoll, Herman Miller, etc. (in contrast, though, I purchase CVS over Tylenol brand), my attitude lately toward the subject of "licensed v. repros" can best be described as "eh." Nowadays, I could care one way or the other.

If you want to purchase the unlicensed repro, I think quality may be an issue in this particular case. From what I've heard, uphostering womb chairs, an egg chair, or a coconut chair is particularly difficult. If not done right, the uphostery tends to bunch up in certain places. I have heard that this is a problem with the less expensive womb chair reproductions. That's not to say there aren't quality repros out there, but I haven't heard about a quality womb or egg chair.

I have a licensed ebonized nelson bench from Herman Miller.
Stress cracks all over the place. Herman Miller said that this has been a problem with their ebony benches and that I should use touch up paint. (Might explain why HM no longer manufactures the ebony bench). Next time, I'm going with a lesser repro to put my tv on.

In regards of the original designs prices (for the masses) and today's crazy prices, take a look at this:

Eames Lounge chair original sticker price was: $578 (1956)
In today's price that would be: $4,174!

Tulip Chairs and table by Saarinen original price: 784 (1957)
In today's price: $5,661!

Those are only 2 examples with more time, I can come up with more. They were never cheap, regardless of the original concept of the designers

regards,

JP

Joel - thanks for doing that math. It is certainly an interesting thing to consider. $578 sounds cheap but when you think about all that it could buy back in 1956 that is a different story.

thanks jp.

i think one of the things that's crazy about todays prices is that so much is available for rock bottom prices. and people forget what goes into making something as substantial as a chair or a sofa. quality materials aren't cheap (even wholesale), and craft and workmanship takes time and skill shouldn't be devalued. an expensive sofa usually has skilled labor behind it.

i'm all for affordable design. and people should buy what they can afford and what makes them happy. but there's a certain ethic behind saving for quality design pieces as well. you support designers and craftsmen. and are less likely to end up with something you dispose of later - contributing to our disposable society.

As someone who downloads music illegally and owns some designer fakes (although not of Coach because why bother, that stuff is not even that expensive) I'm not even going to get into the moral issue, so my question is, how do you treat your furniture?

I have two cats, lousy housekeeping habits and extremely fickle tastes, so I think twice - make that five times - before investing significant amounts in furniture, particularly upholstered furniture. A Jennifer Convertibles sectional, for example, lasted me just around four years; it was still comfortable but the back and sides were shredded by the cats and there was a very unfortunate superglue accident.

Also, I just don't buy the "a design classic stands the test of time and you'll have it forever" argument. 10 years from now, the Womb will still be a nice piece but it might make no sense in your home or your life - and you are NEVER going to get even 50% of market value for a mass-produced piece like that after a year or two of use.

If you take good care of your things, really think you won't get tired of this style and want to have this piece around for 15 years, if you can afford it of course the "real" piece will better suit your needs. But if you constantly redecorate and/or move around a lot, I'm not sure I would do it.

I have owned knock-offs and authentice pieces over the years, and I've learned two things...

Quality for a lifetime - an original from Knoll is extremely well made. If you really love this chair, you're gonna want to keep it for your life and even hand it down (modernmom said it best - heirloom). A knock off surely won't make it that long (in most cases).

Re-sell - If you do decide you don't like it later, you're going to get a much higher return when you sell an original. (gretchen touched on this) Assuming you take care of it, it'll probably look as good as it did when you first purchased it and if you buy it right, you may even make some money. If you buy a knock off... by the time you're tired of the style, it'll probably be a little ratty from the lack of quality and you won't get much trying to re-sell. I like to buy originals now, not because of some snobbiness... but because I can sell them and lose very little investment, if any.

Hope that helps!

Eh? I guess some people got a bit offended by my reference to how many people could be fed with $2,600.00 instead of buying a designer chair for my own butt. Sorry. I didn't mean that as an accusation of anyone. I simply said that I couldn't justify a purchase of such an incidental item when so many people are hungry. Me. Myself. Even though I long for a Saarinen piece. My own inner dilemnas. :)

I mean "dilemmas". :P

i hear you elevenhounds. it is a complex web of desires and choices:)

i end up with vintage most often as the compromise. a happy compromise.

WOW, this question really stirred something in our blog. One thing suprises me though, is the fact that this chairs is being compared to a purse???? designer nevertheless. That is the nature of fashion, they are designed for the season. A chair, especially the one in question, it is an ICON, it is an example of the creative era of Eames and Saarinen, it is an icon in the art history and specifically of the american history. So point agreed that they were never cheap to buy in the first place, they are super comfortable, (despite someone's opinion above who I believe can not buy the chair and has psychologically convinced him/herself that it is not comfortable)- it is not called the womb for nothing, these iconic chairs are a piece of the highest point of american design, so they can not be out there for everyone to buy. Only a few can afford them, and go out and buy them. If one person can not afford an original one, that is made to the detailed specifications of the designer and improved to the latest material improvement, then by all means support a young designer. The downside with that, is that nowdays, everyone thinks that they own a slice of fame of fortune in the design world...

indeed. I was looking at the scan from playboy's bachelor pad from 1961, prices in "constant" dollars are indeed very high, and for some of knoll products, prices are actually LESS than what the original vintage pieces sell for at that time.
Eames lounge has always been considered a "luxury" piece of furniture.
Regarding the original post, I don't like the womb chair, so I wouldn't consider buying it. Chances are the chinese knock off is poor quality, as I have quoted a womb rehupolstery and the price was insane because it's a very difficult job.

I have a real knoll womb chair in leather that I bought new 6 years ago. If I ever get evicted from my house, I will never give up that chair, I will strap it to my back like a tortoise shell and live on the street with it. :-) It is a chair that i might sit in once a month. From the beginning 2 screws on the frame that connect to the under arm area are loose and the chair will wobble when guests sit in it if they move around. I'm beginning to question Knoll quality. It's my fault for not sending it back right away and requesting a new one. I have a feeling the fabric and foam will be the real difference between the chairs and not the frame or shell.

Brenda,

As a budding furniture snob and Knollie ,I have to say...dont go for the knockoff..

its only going to be good for a little bit then you will chuck it in the garbage along with the rickety rackety ikea bookcase that only last 2 moves...( not knocking ikea, but lets keep it real, they are not known for quality)

I agree 100% with what others are saying as far as ebay or CL.
And yes the womb chair is expensive, BUT it will last sooooo much longer than the Chinese version. unless your ok with saying your womb chair is a fake, then go ahead. but anyone that has seen a womb chair in person will know you got the no frills verison.

I know that Knoll is having a spring sale soon ( they have a few a year) where you can get great deals there.

Or, you can make friends with someone who works for knoll, and get their discount...*hiding my knoll id*

hhahahhaha

I can speak from some experience when it comes to high design knock-offs. About ten years ago I bought a Breuer Wassily Chaise knock of for $150.00 and I loved it at the time.

The first obvious differences from the Original and my knock off were the details and connections (steel ends had chrome caps and were not welded shut) The other issue was the leather - not as thick or soft. The leather strap back support broke about four years ago and I have yet to get it repaired. For all the people I know who have the original (3 much older than my knock-off), their leather is still in great shape.

So as most have said, you really are paying for quality. Don't get me wrong, I loved my chair and it served me well for 7 years (and I intend to get it fixed next year) but QUALITY and longevity is the main issue...and Yes, I did tell all of my visitors that it was a knock off of an original - no head hanging though!

I was fortunate a few years ago to sit in someone's real Womb chair. It felt like a comfortable chair, nothing more. But if you like the look of this cheaper version and have never sat in the real thing, then get it. You will not be missing anything.

They may speak about quality but unless this chair falls apart the moment the sit in it and it feels comfortable, then that's all you need. Can you imagine if you were able to do a blind seating test and you couldn't tell the difference but you had paid the near-$3,000 price? I know how I'd feel.

Lisa, you are right in terms of first impressions, but as I stated above in my post LONGEVITY from everyday use may be a key thing to consider - I kinda learned my lesson, but I would probably buy a knock off again in the future depending on my finances and the piece of furniture...so who knows.

Brenda, you had to ask so it sounds like a knock off of lesser quality might not work for you.
buy an authentic piece either new or used, i find it much more satisfying and a better long term investment.

But if you DO find a vintage Womb chair, make sure you are pleased with its upholstery in its current condition... reupholstering will run you BIG bucks (almost as much a new Knoll one), and as stated above, it is a complicated job (for this particular chair) that will look like a bad rented tuxedo if not done really well.

flavorpacket--
I like your thinking about the difference between counterfeit and knock-off, but if it were my design, I'd feel like it were a counterfeit even if "only" a knock-off. But point definitely taken.

I make my living off design and ideas, so knock-offs just seem a slippery slope to me. But, as proven in the very enlightening Modernica/Vitra thread recently, who owns what license or manufacturing process can get very convoluted when you're trying to stay true to the original designer/manufacturer/license holder.

abigailm--
My point was of course not to compare the cost of a purse to the cost of a chair, but rather the relative difference in price based on a combination of quality, authenticity, and brand.

But if you think $800 is still expensive for an upholstered chair, care to share your bargain sources for upholstery?!? I'd love to find a great upholstered chair for $200, without having to schlep to IKEA.

And, in general, as far as "global responsibilty" you can argue that buying a once-in-a-lifetime piece is more "responsible" than buying several lesser pieces over the same span (the idea of commerce as a necessary part of our existence notwithstanding). But, having said that, its just as easy to drop a lit cigarette on an original Knoll as it is an Italian-flavored Chinese knock-off!!

as Daily Nuance noted -- it's not a FREE return...

"For non-defective items that you'd like to return, Paradigm Gallery has a 30 day return policy. In these cases, the buyer incurs a 20% re-stocking fee on all returns and is subject to shipping costs. We will schedule pick up and provide a return authorization number. "

So this isn't a "gee if the quality's not good enough or if it's uncomfortable this won't cost me anything," situation. To return it'll cost you clost to $160.00 without including the cost to ship it back.

Think about if you're willing to spend that amount on what may end up being an uncomfortable chair for you. It's a gamble. Only you can decide.

I'd save up for the real thing. It would probably take a while, but then that would give you time to decide if it is indeed the right chair for you.

What's wrong with paying someone a fair wage for producing the genuine article? And made in the USA to boot? I would bet that because the quality is superior to the knock-off, qualified local (ie, somewhere in the USA) tradespeople are producing these chairs. In turn these tradespeople can then afford to pay their mortgages, buy their (American) cars, and maintain a middle class lifestyle. We can hope that the money is being somewhat evenly distributed between the producers, the middlemen, the clerks at the stores, etc. Conversely, and regardless of the quality, the knock-off is made by some overworked man, woman, or child in China making a fraction of the wage of their American counterpart. Someone at the top is making an enormous profit. So what and who would you prefer to support?

It's a BEAUTIFUL chair. And really comfortable. And frankly you're not gong to get one on eBay for much less.
The question: can you afford the original? And the ottoman (you need the ottoman.) If you can...buy it. The resale value is a HUGE issue. You will always be able to get at least $1800 for the set, which means however many years or months of enjoyment you got from it will cost you a bit over a thousand dollars.
The $750 knockoff? If you try to sell that on eBay or Craigs you might get $200 if you are lucky.

If you can't swing it? Well certainly don't feel bad! If you want a design classic, there are great chairs at lower price points (I am partial to Bertoia). Otherwise just buy stuff that looks cool. Originality gets way more points in my book than spendiness.

agreed. for $800 you could: find some fun vintage chair for $200-$300, buy fabric you love and have it reupholstered. you'd have a great story. your own creative statement in your home. you'd be recycling, and supporting local business. and it would last for years and years.

but brenda please do let us know what you decide to do. and if you buy the knock off, let us know what the quality is like, and if it makes you blissfully happy:) cheers.

I bought the Saarinen chair when I bought my home. It was my biggest and best furniture investment to this date. Some things are worth spending on. Don't go the knock-off route. Either pay for the real thing or find a less known (less expensive) design that you love.

Brenda and Anusha73

Comfort, like beauty I suppose is in the eye of the beholder. If your home is filled with firm and/or unupholstered furniture, and you are considering the purchase of a womb chair, you may feel that sitting in it is akin to floating on a cloud. However, if your home is filled with heavily upholstered down and spring cushioned furniture, you may, like myself, find the womb chair experience lacking. I am fortunate that my home is the latter rather than the former, the result being that any new furniture acquisitions must measure up to the comfort standard set by the existing pieces otherwise, I'll never use the piece and my money is wasted.

Hence my point Brenda.

Make sure the chair or any other piece of furniture you're buying is really what you want especially since you're debating the cost of a copy vs. original. Visit the piece in the store a few times, sit in it for a while in different positions. Slouch, sit up, bring a book with you and read it in it. It's really easy to get swept up in the design hype as it's a beautiful piece of art with an alluring name. But that artwork is nevertheless furniture that you will live with for a very long time. If you're buying the chair as art and have something else comfortable to sit on, then don't worry about it. However, you don't want to buy the precious Saarinen chair only to question your wisdom a year later when you're not sitting in it because your floor is more comfortable.

if you're not an insecure asshole, you absolutely should buy a knock-off, because it's designed and constructed to replicate an original. and just because you're not buying the chair from knoll doesn't mean you're buying a chair that uses bandaids instead of screws. i do think, however, that 800 is a high price to pay for a replica.

Hrrrm..... this question comes up a lot and its always a fast and furious debate. I'm probably not saying anything new, but here goes anyway:

I have an older (1960's) rip off of the Eames 670 lounge chair. Its not "in the style of" it is a direct rip off. I know that. Everyone that comes into my house initially drools over it and I correct them every time.

In dealing with knockoffs I'm fine with buying them a) as long as you disclaim that they arent original (nobody likes a liar) and b) as long as the quality matches up. Its the second point thats sticking with me in this case. Why?

My Plycraft lounge chair is comfortable, sturdy, and I'm not afraid to sit in it - and it's almost 40 years old. I wouldnt imagine a knockoff in today's cut-throat, cheapest possible, bottom line world would be as good as one made 40 years ago.

When I think of imported Chinese products I think of Wal-Mart, which is very well known for its affordable pricing.

I purchased the Marcel Breuer Laccio tables from DWR for what I thought was a great deal.

I find out that they had dropped the price b/c they were going to be carrying newer versions with the Knoll stamp and Breuer's signature... at three-four times the price.

So does that mean that I bought a knock off at DWR? Sure seems like it. Same material. Same particle board construction.

At least they match my knock off Wassily chairs...

lol How many of you have ever bought prints? or A commercial DVD/ Audio CD? or maybe a "Classic Saarinen Womb Chair", In reality, unless you own the VERY FIRST ONLY ORIGINAL masterpiece EVER, then you got a knock off. Designer makes 1, from which all come from. They're all knock-offs. Now, You've 3000 dollar knock offs and 2 dolla' knock-offs. The designer got his money's worth with the first one he sold and the rest is all about manufacturing factories and how much they want to sell them for for exclusivity rights. Even the recording industry pays artists that way, for every "knock-off" (or replay, repruduction, blah blah) you get paid an amount. You could get a $300 Deluxe ultra-limited edition digipacked record with 100 lbs of artwork or a 32 Cent home-burnt iTunes cd. The original source is the same, and for all we know 99.9% of people couldn't tell the difference between one and the other. The real value is all in your head. NOW, EVERYTHING will wear out. EVERYTHING will eventually give. Most likely your grand-grandsons won't even give a fook about a "Classic Saarinen Womb Chair" and if they did, you probably won't care, 'cause you'll most likely be dead by then, so don't over think it. The real value is all in your head.

I'm sitting here reading the comment thread and giggling. I wish I could even consider buying either the original or knockoff. Both are priced so far outside of my range as to be laughable.

I wish I could afford to be snobbish sometimes. I'm still shopping at Ikea and picking things up out of dumpsters.

If any of you guys who are advocating for the Knoll version of this chair would like to give me some of your extra money, I'd be happy to remove the Ikea from my life.

I think if you were going to buy a real one then why not buy an true original as an investment. My family bought all Knoll furniture in the early 1960's. We are moving into a rental that doesn't have enough room and we do not have the money to recover the womb chair….. so we are selling it all.

I am selling all my Knoll / Saarinen furniture.
All original and purchased by my family.
Womb Chair and ottoman. (needs to be recovered)
Wood top dining table and 4 tulip chairs.
wood top coffee table.
Diamond chair.
contact: modernmagic@me.com for photos.

I purchased the classic corbusier chair and chaise more than a decades ago -- knockoffs -- they are still in perfect condition. maybe knockoffs were made better then than they are today -- i doubt if they were made in china then. i believe italy. so in my experience knockoffs have been good to me. i'm now considering the white tulip chair with red cushions, several of them, as "reproductions" in the $200 each range. what do you experts think?

Let's get a little perspective here. I can buy a very nice CAR for the price of a .... chair? I can buy a knock-off or I can buy a 44 inch digital television that decodes a signal from friggin' outer space. Furniture is a hysterical rip off. And you are enabling it.

Wait, what "very nice car" is available for $2,645?!? Sign me up!

Seriously, though, Brenda, if you're unsure enough to be asking for advice, don't do it! Save your money and buy the real thing. You'll just be so much happier in the end.

And for those of you making the argument that it's okay to steal music if you weren't planning to buy it anyway - really? In what other situation would that be the ethical decision?