Tough predicament. Is it possible show your landlord that comparable units that are spruced up are better value (without increasing your rent?)

i've always had good luck with "I'll supply the labor, you pay for the materials". But i'm kind of handy so that was easy for me. I've stripped wall paper, painted, landscaped, torn up old floors etc. If the jobs are bigger than DIY, I think if you show your part of the investment and the fact that they will be retaining a good tenant for a long period of time, it might strengthen your case. I have threatened to withhold rent for things like way old/gross refrigerator etc...

A friend of mine recently moved into a rental that needed a lot paint and TLC. The kitchen electric stove and wall oven were 1950s originals, and pretty gross. She offered to pay for all of the paint and half of the cost of the appliances. The landlady agreed - then decided she would cover the cost of appliances herself. I think that if you show that you care about the place, and are willing to put some money and elbow grease into making a beautiful home there, you're more likely to get buy-in from the owner. Of course some landlords couldn't care less. I hope yours is one who is willing to work with you!

i would be concerned that the landlord would raise your rent, based on comparables after any updates you ask him/her to do. i would go about it asking if you can make some of the repairs yourself, and he/she could discount your rent by an agreed-upon amount for each.

if that is a no-go, ask if you can both agree on a contractor or handyman to come in and make said changes, but you just pay a little less in rent for the 'inconvenience' of having to move your things for floors to be polished, etc, etc.

or...you could always just suck it up, paint the walls on your own (with the landlords permission), at your own expense, and move on. it won't cost much and it will definitely make the space feel new and fresh.

The key (IMHO) for dealing with a landlord is to clearly identify the monetary benefit to them--- either in you staying as a tenant or/and increasing the LT value of their property. A few ways that come to mind are...
1-- The "free labor" approach (described above)
2-- The comparables approach (show how other apartments in the area have X at Y price)... you can also take this one step further and say you're looking at moving.
3-- If you're out of lease (don't know how Australia works, but my lease in US went m2m after a 1 year lease), you can offer to sign a year lease if work is done to show your long-term value.

Ultimately the key is to show that there's value to the landlord in investing in the property. The big things you offer as a (good) tenant are your consistant paying of rent and low-"maintenanceness." If you live in a "hot" renters market and are out of lease, beware of making the pitch for improving the value of the property (if similarly priced places don't have your amenities)...you risk asking for a rent hike. :)

I'm a landlord and unfortunately cannot afford to update the rental in any way, other than to have given it a fresh coat of paint throughout last summer. We were candid with our renters that we'll make no capital improvements, but we will fix anything that breaks. The monthly rental price reflects this arrangement.

If our tennants offered to pay more, we'd be happy to replace the vinyl floor; however, because they have two dogs, we would not be willing to pay for new carpet.

I'd very much like to update the place with a new Ikea kitchen, but again, we don't have the funds to do it. The point is that it's important to understand that while your landlord may want to give you the updates you want, s/he may not be able to capitalize costly improvements. You may want to look for an apartment that has the creature comforts you prefer.

Since you mentioned carpet+wood floores...some landlords intentionally carpet over wood floors to limit noise issues and lower turnover cost in refinishing for new tenants.

As someone who has been on both sides of this equation, remember that most people rent residential property as it is presented to them. "As is" If the owner of the property could afford to make up grades they probably would have done so before marketing it.

On the other hand if you can prove a level of competence and quality sometimes property owners will happily allow you to make upgrades such as painting or recovering a floor etc. if you do the labor and subtract the cost of materials from the rent.

The main problem is you are already renting the place, so there is no immediate ecconomic incentive to make the changes you desire.

Back when we rented we asked to have the place repainted before we renewed the lease, The landlord is going to have to paint if we would of moved out anyway. When they paint they typically went over the floors after to clean up after themselves.

As a landlord we offer to paint about every two years. Some people are generally clean and turn us down, it's a bit of a hassle to have to prepare your apartment for people to come in and paint around your stuff.

The fact that there isn't a culture of long term renters may work in your favor. Your landlord may not think you want or need any updating since you didn't move and they may not know the condition of the apartment as they probably haven't been in it in several years. You don't know until you ask...the worst they can say is no. And if so, so what? At least you tried.

I've been a renter and landlord over the years and it is more cost effective to keep a good long-term tenant happy than it is to have the property turn over every year or so. For example, I rented out a property for $2000 a month. After the first year long lease expired the tenants asked for a two year lease. I'm sure they were trying to lock in the rate. I gave it to them because if they moved out I would have to pay to clean and paint the property, the cost of listing the property, changing the locks, and on and on. Plus who knows how many months the property would have sat empty not collecting any rent. The most I would have raised the rent is $50. Amortized over two years that is $1200. I would be out a lot more than $1200 if I had to turn over the property every year or so.

I wouldn't necessarily volunteer the labor to update the space. As a landlord I've always preferred having professionals do those sorts of things in case something goes wrong. Ultimately it's my property and if I allowed a tenant to remove carpet, etc and they did a terrible job and/or got hurt, I am opening myself up to a lot of liability and extra costs to fix things that went astray. As a renter who assumes these responsibilities you are opening yourself up to a lot of liability if the landlord decides that they don't like the paint job or floor refinishing or whatever it is. Depending on how your lease is written and the laws where you live, despite the fact that they gave you verbal approval, they could still come after you for "damages".

There is a chance that the landlord can't afford to make any major improvements, but that is sort of a red flag. A good landlord will have some money in reserve in case there is some sort of major emergency repair necessary. What if a water main broke and flooded the entire property? Etc, etc...I'm not saying that they need to have tens of thousands of dollars put aside, but it shouldn't be a major financial blow if once a year they need to invest a couple hundred dollars back into the property to keep it in good shape. In fact, that's just good business for a landlord to do.

If they do agree to do the upgrades for a rent increase, amortize the increase over the length of the time that you plan to live there. If they increase the rent $50, is whatever updates they do worth an extra $600 a year for you? I want new linoleum in my current rental kitchen but there is no way I would pay an extra $600 a year for it considering that the linoleum plus installation only costs $300 or so.

I've noticed that a lot of landlords that are renting out their former homes or family homes have odd attachments to certain paint colors, wallpaper, and carpeting installed over hardwoods. Back in the 1960's and 70's it was a big deal to get carpeting installed over the hardwoods and to install wallpaper. It was a sign of wealth. Not so much anymore. But try telling that to some people. If the culture in your area is that carpet and wallpaper=luxury then you may have an uphill battle.

So with all that said, if you can convince the landlord that you plan to stay for the long term and that you will take care of any improvements (keep the walls clean and try to avoid any damage to the wood floors) coupled with the concern of turnover costs, you may have a stronger argument than you originally thought.

Good luck.

Looks like a pretty decent apartment (people's investment properties can get preeeettty cheap) so I'd assume the landlord has a little bit of money. You could ask your real estate agent what the best approach might be, but real estate agents are generally evil towards tenants - they're paid by the landlords and don't seem to care about trying to make both sides happy. If you know the landlord directly then you've probably got a better chance. Painting the walls yourself would probably go down okay, as has been suggested, anything more major than that perhaps you could split with the landlord?

nwerikamp - New Zealand is not Australia, just FYI ;) They're not even on the same continent!

An income property's purpose in life is to generate as much profit as possible. Therefore, landlords often put their dollars only into necessary repairs instead of renovations. However, you might get a little further if you can convince your landlord that the renovations would build EQUITY in their property. Do a little bit of cost-benefit analysis with your landlord and show him/her the return they would get on their investment. As a rule of thumb, kitchens and bathrooms get the most ROI, its not unreasonable to expect a 100% ROI on those modernizations. So you might want to start with those as a lead in to grab their attention, and then move to the more inexpensive (and more accessible) goals of replacing the floors and paint...your landlord would likely be more receptive to those anyway.

It might have been said before, but make sure to write down any negotiation and have both you and the landlord sign it. Also, try to make sure you are both on the same page about paint colors and other details.
I had a friend who painted her apartment and the landlord verbally agreed to pay for supplies but then rescinded his offer afterwards. He cited that he did not like the paint color and he would have to go and buy more paint after she moved out so he didn't want to pay for the expenses anymore.

I agree with all the other comments.

Interestingly, I just checked the NZ Residential Tenancies Act and, while it says your landlord is responsible for maintenance and repairs, it seems more geared to fixing broken things than keeping the place spruced up. (I checked because in some places give guidelines on how often the landlord has to paint).

My family has a rental property, and you should never underestimate the leverage that comes with being a reliable tenant who pays the rent and doesn't ruin anything or annoy the neighbours. If your landlord is smart, he'll do his best to make sure you're happy enough to stay there. Especially if you offer free labour or a cost-sharing arrangement.

@Nwerikamp, you know New Zealand and Australia aren't the same country, don't you??

@Nwerikamp, you know New Zealand and Australia aren't the same country, don't you??

Well, at least Nwerikamp knew that they were in the same general vicinity. Baby steps, Lau, baby steps.

Now I'm off to get a US visa so I can visit Canada in the spring!

@OPERATOR, capital improvements don't necessarily build equity at all. The house we own and rent out because we can't sell in this market wouldn't "gain equity" with any improvements. If it can't sell for $250, it's not like putting in a $5K kitchen is going to make it sell for $255 or $260. It's complete myth that all capital improvements help property values. On the other hand, if the roof leaked and I fixed it, then yeah, your statement makes sense. A painting or a house or younameyourthingamajig will sell for what it will sell for given the market for your thingamajig.

Further to my point, if I buy a $200K house in a market where all the other houses are about $200K, my house would have to be significantly bigger to command $250, not just have wood floors over my neighbor's carpet, or a granite counter of my neighbor's tile.

This is why foreclosures are bringing the market down. Suddenly comps are lower, so my house appraises for lower, and therefore the buyer can't get a loan for the amount I want to sell the house for.

The idea of intrinsic value is a hogwash. Another case in point. A house in CA with 1200 sq feet sells for $300K, where a house in UT with 4000 sq feet sells for the same $300K. The cost to build doesn't change from state to state that much, so you're back to talking about what the market will bear for a given lot.

No way is a renter going to convince an owner that a $5-$10K upgrade builds their equity. Don't even try it. It's insulting to the owner and just makes you look like an imbecile.

I'm in Australia and the lack of ability to ever get landlords to repaint or do any basic maintenance was one of the major factors contributing to me finally buying my own place. I would have happily rented forever if the culture had been a little different. One landlord did recarpet and repaint, but then immediately turned around and sold the place and kicked us out, since she realised how a fresh look had put the place in perfect condition to get the best price.

Another repainted at the end of our lease, as we asked for this in exchange for signing for another year. Then he used it as ammunition to raise the rent by $50 a week.

Others just refused entirely, and were not willing for us to do it even if we paid for all the materials and DIYed. The biggest problem is that here the landlord/property manager does 3 monthly inspections at first, and six monthly inspections after the first year you have rented from them, where they check that everything is in order, and fine you or refuse to write references in the future if you have changed things, done any unagreed work on the property, or even put up picture hooks in the walls. So you can't just return the place to the way it used to be when you move out - they'll see it every 3-6 months.

When I used to live in NZ, at least the inspections weren't a regular part of the rental culture - but that was 15 years ago, so maybe they are now.

I'm in Australia too, and for fear of the landlord raising the rent, I put up with cracks in the walls, doors that are about to fall off their hinges, carpet flooring in the bathroom, 50s carpeting every where else in the house except in the kitchen where there is hideous vinyl flooring, no exhaust fan in the bathroom, a stove from the 50's with mismatched knobs that fall off, the tackiest wood paneling on the walls and windows that either don't open or don't stay open.

My father questions whether the house is even legally fit to be rented out. That being said, I also have a very handy father in law who pops around randomly to fix minor things around the house. It is a lot of work to keep the house looking decent, lots of elbow grease, I clean the walls twice a year and when I do my friends always think we've painted the walls. I steam clean the carpets about 3 times a year and use rugs as best I can to hide the ugliness. I've learnt to work with the good things that this house offers, such as a large window in the living room & high ceilings.

You get what you pay for and my rent is dirt cheap. I just have to work a little bit harder to make my rented house, a home. Funnily enough, even though we (me, my husband and 2 daughters) live in the smallest, oldest, most run down house out of all our friends (who have bought or are renting much nicer houses) everyone still chooses to gather and hang out at our place the most. Maybe my "killer canapes" (as my friends call them) mixed with good company, cancels out all the other stuff.

Have you tried talking to him/her?

What you're asking for seems like a reasonable request given your intent to stay for a while. Let the him know your plans and see if he's willing to do those things in exchange for a multi-year lease (allow for some increase in rent if greater than 2 years). If not, and there are no reasons why he isn't willing to work with you, he probably is not the kind of landlord you want to deal with over an extended period.

If you're a new tenant, the landlord might not even be sure he wants you as a tenant that long, so give it some time to get to know each other before you ask.

Rae,

the other thing to consider, is to do renter-friendly changes. So for instance - look at vinyl tiles that can be laid on top of boards, floating floors, etc. There are plenty of ways to spruce up a place without going into painting/etc. A lot of them are on this site too!

The good thing about these is when you move, you take them with you. The landlord hasn't paid anything and they get the flat back in the condition you got it. You have the resources to do your next place in a similiar way without forking out more money.

It's definitely worth a consideration.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........I too have rented one place for many years. My building was recently sold (two years ago) I have had a $300 rent increase as the new owner wants everyone at market rate unfortunately the interior does not reflect a market rate unit. I have done a number of things on my own. The problem is now I need new window coverings and flooring. The previous owner allowed me to remove the 20year old carpet and the hardwood underneath are horrible, and dangerous. I have asked and asked and asked. The bathroom had so much mold and the new owners would do nothing that I to call the building inspector, who had to "school" the new owners. The old wall was ripped out, and a plastic surround was put in which is now falling out. As the third property manager for the new owners told me................why don't you just move? BECAUSE IT'S MY HOME AND HAS BEEN FOR THIRTEEN YEARS. I don't mind the rent increases so much, they own the property as a business, I get that. What I do mind is the lack of respect for me as the tenant. It is certainly a conumdrum (sp) and without the City Inspector I don't know what I would do.

As long as I plan to stay for awhile, I have no problem with investing my own money in order to make minor improvements to my apartment. (For example, I replaced an old gritty bathroom sink-top.) The way I see it, I'm getting an upgraded apartment, while still paying the same amount of rent.

As a landlord, I have to say that if you want a nicer place, you'll either have to a) offer to pay more, or b) move. Not to sound harsh, but at least in my case, my husband and I are living off our one rental unit alone while I'm home with little babies and he's in school full-time, and we can't afford vanity upgrades so our tenants can have a more stylish living space than us! Necessities aside, of course-- if something is broken, unsafe, and/or in any way not up to code, well, that's just one of the downsides of being a landlord/owning property, but newly polished floors just aren't a priority.

I think the answer to how you can convince your landlord to do those things is that you can't. You can make some suggestions, but your landlord is most likely concerned with getting maximizing revenue and minimizing expenses (as most businesses are). You've already rented the place, which means you accepted the condition it was in for the rent that was asked. If you want a nicer place, be prepared to pay more. You can certainly propose some things, but don't get put out if the landlord says no.

Hey Landlord you Muppet (no offence to Miss Piggy or Kermit) either do up the apartment or you will lose a long term tenant, who gives you no trouble and pays the rent on time. Be sure to name other apartment that you could move to. They can do it up while you are on holida ;-)

*y