Q:We are redoing our kitchen and there are a few issues we are trying to work through. The previous owner took down part of a wall between the kitchen and living room, and we plan to remove the remaining portion of that wall and install cabinets where we currently have our kitchen table.
Coming up with a workable design for the new cabinets is difficult: first, there is a six inch "jog" halfway along the wall, second, the edge of that wall is visible from the foyer, and third, the new cabinets will be visible from the living room. So we need a design that accounts for the two different depths, isnt visible from the entry, and integrates without making the living room appear to be a giant kitchen. Making the cabinets along that wall all the same depth doesn't work as it would not leave enough clearance for the table. The general living room design is modern using light maple wood similar to the table & chairs in the pictures.
Included in the gallery above is the current floor plan and the planned layout after the wall is down along with pictures of the apartment with the table in the "after" placement backing the couch (yes, we plan to get a new one!). Also, the last photo is a design with an element we think could work (using shelves to connect the two cabinet areas, installing "off side" upper/lower cabs, and starting the new cabinets about 20 inches in from the left wall edge so the cabinets are not visible from the entry). Any suggestions would be welcome, including cabinet colors and lighting for the new space! thanks so much!
Sent by Gena
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Shaw's Original Fir...
I have a similar kitchen and look forward to reading the comments.
Off the top of my head I can't think of exactly how I would do it, but either get big sheets of paper or empty boxes of the approximate size, or that you can set up to reflect the size of the cabinets you are considering. This is how we figured out the layout of our kitchen. It also allows you to walk around in the kitchen and get a feel for how you will interact with them.
You know you can go to Home Depot and use their free design service for problems like this, right? IKEA probably does, too.
Off the top of my head, I'd say you want to create a peninsula, so getting backing for the cabinets (which are normally open on the back since they attach to the wall) and a countertop that is cut to accomodate the different depths of cabinet invisibily would be considerations. But I'd probably get help. This would be easy to mess up, and the pros might have ideas that would help. Good luck.
I personally think it's a mistake to do it the way you have the plan laid out now - I think getting rid of that wall completely will end up making the kitchen feel oddly balanced, and take away much of your functional counter space and lower cabinets. You would also be making the only counter space you have face away from the living area, which means anyone doing food prep isn't interacting with the living room area - in other words, the cook is still not part of the party, or not able to look outside or watch TV while cooking.
I'd suggest removing just the upper cabinets of that wall between the kitchen and living areas and instead make that a peninsula with lower cabinets and bar seating. Bar seating allows you to get rid of the table completely, which I think is one of pieces causing the most problem in the current layout. Move the media to the wall where the "shelves" are and move Couch 1 to the right side of the diagram. That brings the kitchen and living area in to a completely integrated, truly "open floorplan" design, with none of the seating facing away from the kitchen, and yet not necessarily making the kitchen the focal point. This allows the cook to entertain and be entertained, while still giving the living area its own defined space.
Also, I'd consider putting a cabinet end display shelf unit on the end of the new cabinets - this would make it so the first thing you see when you walk in the door isn't the flat side of a cabinet, but some other tchotchkes like pottery/art/glass menagerie/flowers/whatever. That would "blend" better and not make it seem like you're ending your cabinets early on the wall.
IKEA does have a free planning tool. http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm
Do yourself a huge favor. Do what you can to set your measurements up in this planner. Then post it in the kitchen planning forum at the IKEAFans website (not affiliated with IKEA, just a lot of very helpful people.)
Even if you're not planning to install IKEA products, this tool and the free suggestions you'll get will be invaluable.
I would fill the 90" wall adjacent to the foyer with pantry cabinets nad your refrigerator. If you build that wall out behind the cabinets, but leave a recess for the refrigerator, then a standard fridge will appear to be counter depth. Then use the current galley set-up, but now more roomy because the fridge is elsewhere.
First off, you need to start with an accurate, properly dimensioned and scaled plan:
You show a window behind the stove where there isn't one and a bump-back on the stove/fridge wall where none exists. You need to include exactly where the plumbing is on the walls (and determine if it can be moved) and where the electrical boxes are (notice that you have electrical on the wall you plan to remove - be prepared to deal with this)
You need this to be perfectly accurate in all this so that you can go to a kitchen showroom and have a designer help you work out a plan that meets your needs - If it's not accurate, anything you purchase won't fit.
If you're unable to take the dimensions yourself, you can always pay them to come out and do a site visit and do it for you - Sometimes they will offset this with a purchse of their cabinetry (I don't think IKEA does this - but Home Depot and Kitchen specialists generally do)
Now you said that you want cabinets where the table is now - Are you going to get rid of the table completely?
Personally, I'd use the extra depth in the back wall to place the fridge in an enclosed cabinet at the far left - then run your lower cabinets 6" away from the wall until it comes to the jog where they'll be backed against the wall (The installer can use blocking where there's a gap behind them and the extra deep countertop in that area would cover the hole) and install overhead cabinets only in the deeper area - then shallow open shelves above the sink/dishwasher area for small items such as glasses, etc.
Then I'd keep the stove roughly where it is now with cabinets above and extend the countertop alone in the area where you have your table now, replacing the table & chairs w/ counterstools on both sides making your open eating area.
Then I'd run the same flooring (Cork? Tile? Wood?) throughout the LR/Kitchen/Entry/Hall space to maintain cohesiveness and make the entire space feel larger and more open.
I think you heed to stop looking at this as a kitchen remodel and take the whole kitchen/living/dining area into consideration.
Like weatherman above, I find your table against couch configuration to be oddly blocking any free flow in your place. I'd focus on getting rid of that awkward furniture placement as well, and opening up the flow.
Only then consider taking down the wall. Like weatherman says, you could be giving up too much space for kitchen counters. Or it could work to have all (or most) of your kitchen along one wall. It works well if you place a longer, narrow table across from it. This provides more workspace for cooking, and is good in an open plan space. You do have to move that couch though- a narrow table won't look good with a couch backed up against it like you have now.
Your space is not oddly shaped, and it should be easy to find a good layout for it. Look at pictures of similar configurations in magazines, looking at the whole living area, not just the kitchen.
Lastly, as to not having the living room look like one big kitchen. If that's not what you want, why are you taking down the wall? You could easily furnish that wall you show empty where you want kitchen cabinets with cabinets that are NOT kitchen cabinets, but will give you storage and workspace, and even less than 24" base cabinet depth- with a hutch-like piece or other cabinetry- either antique or vintage, new, or custom-built. It you use a wood tone, and not kitchen cabinets, it will expand your kitchen area with the look of a dining room rather than more kitchen. But in any case, you have to put that couch somewhere besides along that half wall.
Good luck!
I like your dining chairs, do you know where they're from? :D
Also, I like this format for "Good Questions".
Perhaps a sideboard along the one wall would more appropriately suit your needs...
I feel sometimes it's not as good of an Idea to remove walls in a kitchen.
We need walls for Cabinetry.
The extra depth of the wall jog is a great place to put your fridge and have it be flush with the existing counters. I would place it right next to the existing counters (in fact, it looks like there is even a plug there already - wouldn't surprise me if it is on its own circuit and rated for a fridge.) This will give you a nice cooking triangle between the sink, stove, and fridge. Then, to the left, put a counter height, free standing wood desk/table to serve as additional counter space but to serve as the transition you are looking for into living room. Add a couple stools for casual seating - everyone loves to hang out in the kitchen.
And, looking at those floorplans - is there a window behind where the fridge currently is? Seems like a no-brainer to open that back up and add in counter to the left of the stove - which will also help immensely with cooking to have counters on both sides of the stove (and the heat away from the fridge!)
As for the table behind the sofa, it looks really cramped and awkward. I think I'd be inclined to try it all the way over on the wall in front of the front door where you have listed you are going to put shelves. Place it at the support column right near the LR. A round table might ease the flow of walking around it into the living room. Get a nice pendant light, and it will add ambience to all 3 rooms.
One more thought to add to my post above - if you still feel like you need the storage of extra cabinets on the wall that faces the living room (where I suggested placing the fridge), I would go with open shelves in a wood or material that matches the counter-height table beneath it. Place things like cookbooks or decorative items in there, and it will have more of a furniture look when you see it from the LR.
First, I would assume a new, long sofa in front of the windows, with a couple of chairs facing it. You'll need to figure out what to do with the media console, but it solves q host of other problems. You could also put it along the long wall if you don't need or plan to replace the shelves. Then you could have the media console back up to the the sliding doors, but enough in front of it so you can get to the doors.
I, too, would put the refrigerator in the recess. Counter depth refrigerators are very expensive and being able to fake one will make your kitchen look much visually cleaner.
If you don't want a floor to ceiling pantry, would would give you a lot of closet space, build out the rest of the wall so you don't need to worry about different counter depths.
To avoid seeing the side of the counter from the entry way, build a wall so the side of the cabinets is enclosed. This will in no way detract from an open kitchen feeling.
I'd flip the sink with what I assume is the dishwasher after probing the wall to ensure you can move the plumbing. This will keep the oven door from conflicting with the dishwasher door and create a much better work triangle. And having the sink next to a window is odd, plus it limits your work space. I don't know what the other square is along that wall, but I would move it.
I would swap the stove for a cooktop us oven and put it on the island between the kitchen and living room. I don't know what those other boxes are next to the stove, but I would definitely else the window. The area between the two windows would be a great space for a pantry, which would also even out the wall.
The island between the kitchen and living room could have high cabinets above it. This does NOT mean a narrow passthrough window but rather perhaps 12 - 18" high cabinets up by the ceiling. You could have the side of them facing the living room be a display shelf.
I would then float the dining room table parallel to the island. With the sofa on the other corner, there might be enough space and the two sides of the room would be balanced.
This solves the problem you posed but costs you a wall of shelves. Of course, if you don't want an island, you could design shelves between the kitchen and living room that are open, so the kitchen is open yet separate.
And, by all means, have this laid out in a tool and have someone probe the walls for plumbing, electric and load bearing columns or walls before you do anything. And if you have a circuit panel, mechanical panel, etc, that will strongly influence what is possible.
Good luck!
BTW, the aspirational photo doesn't show a refrigerator or a dishwasher, probably because they are elsewhere in a large room. Having all appliances against one wall is very bad kitchen design - read up on work triangles.
I REALLY like the idea of putting the fridge in the 'indent' of the jog wall. I've seen people re-do the framing just to set the fridge in further so you've got a built in solution.
A couple suggestions for cabinets at different depths - bathroom cabinets are (I believe) 2 inches shallower than kitchen base cabs. Or, if you wanted something even shallower, use upper cabs as your base cabs. Some manufacturers make extra deep uppers so your base cabs there would be shallower than in the rest of the kitchen - but not so shallow they'd look odd (IMO anyway)
When we redid our kitchen I found the NKBA guidelines very useful in planning http://www.kitchens.com/Design/Layouts/NKBA-Guidelines.aspx
We installed Ikea Adel cabinets in white, so we used the Ikea kitchen planner; it can be a real pain, but it's an essential tool. For people who like modern, I recommend Ikea Applad in white.
We have a little jog in our wall and as others have suggested, that's where we put our fridge.
I would consider adding walls. Put the fridge in the "jog" and to the left of that build a wall perpendicular to actually enclose the kitchen with a trimmed out wide opening/walkway. You'd see a finished wall rather than ends of cabs or appliances from other parts of home. I'd only remove part of that living room wall to this perpendicular wall (hope that makes sense.)
Ikea has great undercabinet lighting and if it's in the budget pot lights are nice; inour area they cost about $90 ea. installed by electrician.
It also seems your dining table (although fantastic) might just be the wrong size and shape for your home. If you don't use it regularly, this might be a good inspiration for you http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-02-24/living/17139959_1_counter-space-kitchen-cabinets
Good luck!
I once did an all mirrored backsplash for a small kitchen, it truely made the kitchen feel much bigger than it really was. Mirrors do wonders! Just a tip.
Good luck with your kitchen!
Ruben Marquez
www.rubenmarquezjr.com/blog
kitchen pantry cabinet
I feel sometimes it's not as good of an Idea to remove walls in a kitchen.
We need walls for Cabinetry