Q: I love my apartment and plan to stay for a long while, but my landlord has no plans of selling it to me in the near future and there are some "less-than-minor" changes I would really like to make. These include tearing up the 25 cent carpet poorly installed and changing out the vanity top made from a bargain brands clearance bin. Being an architect and former construction worker I am more than able to do so. Is there a good way to ask your landlord to finance and at least allow you to make big changes to your rented apartment?
Sent by Jacob
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I don't know about any easy way, but definitely ask. Most states have law that holds tenants liable for unapproved improvements/fixtures, etc. So ask, and get the answer in writing :)
I asked my landlord to tear up a disgusting carpet, and he was happy to oblige. He helped me do it. There were decent hardwood floors underneath. He also mentioned that if there had been a gap in between tenants, he was planning on doing it anyway. Maybe frame it as though the changes will add value to the property.
Jacob,
Its up to your salesmanship skills. Your landlord has has demonstrated very little interest in spending money past the bargain basics. If you sell him on the increased value that your proposed changes will bring to the place, you may have a chance. Good luck.
Just ask! I told my landlord, "I'm not going anywhere for a while, do you mind helping me make some changes to be more comfortable." I've already lived here 2 years and have a good relationship with them, but they were definitely on board.
Your landlord may be happy to have these changes made. I'm assuming your giving him free labor so he only has what to gain.
For us, we have an agreement that as long as we are improving the apartment we can change it. Now we have made minor improvements like handles and paint, but we did it at our cost. It was a small price to pay for an amazing apartment that we can continue to rent in years to come. I suggest redoing things yourself but doing it on a budget :D
In order to make it as easy for him as possible, I would do a bunch of homework in advance of talking to him -- figure out what you really want, bring in samples covering a range of options you'd be happy with, including estimated material costs for your project. If he knows his options without having to do the work himself, he might be more open to the idea.
And if you're an architect and construction worker, bring in samples of your own work -- prove to him that you know what you're doing, have good taste, and are willing to invest energy needed to make the improvements.
And despite all of your effort, be prepared for him to say no.
I agree, it's all about salesmanship. Sometimes, it's easier when you're first looking at the place to mention painting, etc.
My first landlord paid for paint (he had to approve the colors, but I like neutrals) and for the rental of a floor sander and the stain/varnish. My dad is a capenter, which I brought up in my "pitch" about refinishing the floors.
I am a landlord, and know firsthand the trap that these improvements can conjure. My suggestion is that you divide and conquer. Propose one change, and complete the project. Seeing a real result is likely to convince a landlord that the next projects will also be done and done well.
@Jacob and @vonlet24: It's called ameliorative waste, when a tenant makes improvements to the property without the landlord's permission. The landlord can sue to recover the cost to take the property back to its original condition.
I agree with all the commenters above that you definitely have to speak with your landlord about the changes before making any, and that if you want any financial help from them for the improvements it will all depend on your sales showmanship, not so much the improvements themselves ... otherwise they'd be done already.
But you've got two good bargaining chips:
1) You're an architect, so you get to call these improvements "designer" upgrades. I'd make it clear to him that you're offering him "free" design services, which will make your time in the unit more comfortable, but long term will increase the value of his investment! Bringing samples of the materials would a great way to get him sold on the idea and maybe make him more willing to finance it. And it certainly doesn't hurt to remind him labor costs (usually an extra 20% over material costs) will be free!
2) Emphasize that you love the unit and intend to stay awhile. If your landlord is using the unit as an investment property, that's wonderful news because the longer a renter stays, the easier their life is! Maybe you can negotiate a reduced rent for an extended period of time as a way to finance the upgrades instead of him reimbursing you for the materials?
Good Luck!
I'm also a landlord - we've split the cost on some improvements with some tenants (e.g., insulation, landscaping), but they were actual improvements that increased the value of the home. In this case, you're describing improvements that are really for your own benefit more than the landlord's. "Better" carpet and a new vanity are pretty minor changes overall and won't let your landlord charge more rent when you move out. These are changes that simply remove money from your landlord's wallet.
The landlord may be willing to pay for some of the cost, but if its really that important to you, you should be prepared to cover the costs yourself. We've had plenty of tenants request to make small changes (e.g. paint a room for a nursery, replace a light fixture, plant a garden) and we're fine with that, but not on our dime. Rental properties are most often an income-generating business for landlords - its amazing how many people forget this part!!
I am a landlord as well and I agree that you should suggest a small project at first instead of coming like you're going to start knocking down walls and stuff. It is his or her property after all so be respectful and kind and you should be able to get what you want (within reason)
Also a landlord and ugh!
- The time to do this is when you move in or are negotiating extending your lease.
- The person to handle the changes is your landlord. Not you. I don't care that you are an architect and former construction worker. Did you install carpet? No? Then I am going to hire a carpet installer, thank you.
- These are cosmetic changes, not material changes. You want them, you pay for them (but I approve them and have them professionally installed...at your cost!)
You are a renter. I am not selling you this place anytime soon because you are generating income for me.
It is a place to live. Not a place to practice your DIY projects.
Spend your time and money on things you will take with you to your next place. Not on my place...that you rented without negotiating these changes!
I had good luck with a former landlord by asking if I could do things and deduct their cost from the rent, with receipts. They liked and trusted me, I was in the place about 5 years, and I ran every idea past them for authorization before doing anything. I did all work free, of course, they just paid for things that were installed "permanently".
That said, I never tried to do carpeting or something as big as a vanity.
As landlords here have said, if it's not making something more desirable to future tenents (so they can recoup their investment through higher rent) they have no incentive to comply. Convince your landlord it will do that!
I am in a similar situation, except I have no carpentry skills. My landlord hasn't made any improvements to my apartment in about 20 years (aside from replacing the vanity in the bathroom). I managed to get him to install overhead lighting (it's a basement apartment--he installed these hideous, cheap ceiling fans), and when the plugged-in, garage lighting strip that had served as the kitchen lighting began to shock me, he replaced that with a permanent fixture. I'm still waiting for him to take the bathroom light switch out of the shower (yes, the switch is smack dab in the middle of the tile... in the shower) and remove the laminate flooring from the kitchen wall. Though he doesn't care what changes I make (because he's already seen how I've decorated the place and knows I have decent taste), I can't get any contractors to take an interest in the various small jobs that need to be done. They dismiss it with "no point in making changes to a rental," or, "that's going to require a building code." The location is ideal and the rent is cheap, but the place is so embarrassing I won't have anyone over.
I've had landlords willing to pay for paint where I did the painting myself (painting a normal color, and the walls needed re-painting anyway), and one who allowed me to replace mini blinds with faux wood blinds, but at my expense. I just asked nicely.
I can't imagine a landlord being willing to pay for the new vanity top, even if it's ugly. Maybe if the carpet is in bad shape and will need to be replaced anyway, you can pitch it as free labor to do something the LL would have needed to do soon with or without your preferred change. (And if the carpet is already poorly installed, your LL probably doesn't care too much about work quality and won't care that you're not a carpet installer.)
As others have said, lease renewal might be a better time to negotiate this. It usually costs your LL money to find a new tenant, so if the carpet or whatever is less than that cost, the LL might be more likely to be willing to spend the money.
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than it is to ask for permission.
mosaicwench, I heartily disagree. Unless you're willing to lose your entire security deposit when you leave, or even be sued by your landlord, its best to leave the place in the same condition you found it. And yes, we will check everything before we send that security deposit back!
My landlord allowed me to install cable lighting to replace a dark-ages chandelier that cast an awful yellow light. I sold them on doing it by telling them i'd leave the fixture installed or take it down at their request on move out.
They don't seem to care about much else, like fixing the kitchen light ballast or leak in the roof which caused it to blow out. This sucks because, like you, I want to be there a while and would love to make them a buy offer in a few years if they were interested.
In the meantime, I'd like to know the property is maintained and cared about. But it's their property so they can do as they want.
I am discouraged from asking to make other changes based on my experience with the light which is fine. I'll be planting a potted veggie garden instead of asking to build permanent planters or taking part of the yard.
If you want to change things, buy a house.
I'm yet another landlord in this long list of commenters (a resident one), and personally, I'm proud of my appartments and while I'm in this business because it makes financial sense, I also want to be proud of the "product" I offer and want to offer it at a fair price. In four years we've owned this property, we've completely renovated two of our four appartments, and intend to do the others as time and budget permits.
The point of this preamble is to say, no two landlords are alike. As Thorndale said, it very much depends on whom you're dealing with. If your landlord is an absentee landlord whose property is an investment vehicle only, he may very well not care a whit about the improvements you make and let you do what you want. Several of my design-inclined friends have taken slightly decrepit, underpriced apartments and turned them into little jewels of home decoration.
In my case, I'd be delighted to have a tenant who wants to stay for a while and is willing to do for himself some of the improvements I haven't been able to get to. I have one such case, where I kept the rent on the appartment fairly low with the understanding that the tenant is getting a deal and if he wants an upgrade, he'll have to do most of it himself. I'm willing to spend a bit of money on something like a nicer bathroom sink, knowing it will stay with the property, but he knows that my budget is not very elastic. So far, he's made several improvements and they'll all been better than I had anticipated.
Bottom line is: approach your landlord and try to negociate. Yes, it's even better to have example of where you want to go with the appartment. If you get the sense that he's not completely open and frank and honest and what-have-you, get your agreement in writing, possibly as an addendum to your lease.
In my book, a long-term tenant, especially one who is quiet and wants to improve my property, is money in the bank and I'll make efforts to accomodate them.
The more professionally you ask, the better. Provide a "sketchup" diagram of what you want to do, a clear breakdown of what you'll be doing, and a detailed list of what you'd like your landlord to finance. Finally, I would have a few references from your architect/builder life available in case your landlord wants them. Good luck!
As a long-term tenant, I have made a number of improvements to the three apartments I have lived in over the past 25 years. All of the improvements however were made with the landlord's permission which I obtained before I moved in, and I paid the full cost. From my perspective it's important to make changes which are removable, reversible, or whose cost is low when amortized over the intended duration of your tenancy.
For example I have installed 150 linear feet of library shelving in each of my apartments, but it was all removable. Similarly, I had fairly expensive carpet installed in my first apartment which, when I left 16 years later, had lasted its expected lifespan, therefore I was willing to leave the carpet when I moved. Had I moved earlier, I would have considered hiring a company to remove, clean and reinstall the carpet at the new apartment.
@cavedweller: the contractors' unwillingness to take on some of your jobs because of permit issues is probably their way at hinting that there is probably waaaaay more wrong with your apartment than you realize. The duty of a landlord is provide you with a safe and habitable dwelling. If you have light fixtures that are shocking you and light switches that in showers (probably not up to code), the last thing your landlord wants is for you to pull a permit on the place. Honestly, this place sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Once you get past the asking stage, get whatever your LL agrees to with you in writing. there are lots of ways these arrangements can go sideways & it helps to have a contract documenting your agreement.
we asked our landlord if we could remove our carpet and install hardwood floors. i did tons of research, got quotes of wood and contractors, and basically made a proposal for him. oh, and we also offered to pitch in up to $500.
to our surprise, he happily obliged and hired someone else to buy the materials and do the install. for him, he said that the main draw was our willingness to extend the lease since he likes us as tenants.
good luck!
I'd actually be surprised if your landlord wanted to help you pay to improve a space that you knew the limitations on before you decided to rent.
What if your boss asked you to chip in part of your paycheck in order to make your office/cubicle more attractive? Would you just care to live with the old carpet and desk or would you put more money into this space?
It really depends on your landlord. We got really lucky with ours. We've been here two and half years and he's pretty much given us the okay on whatever we've asked. We've done it all with our own money, though.
I see no problem with your landlord allowing you to do all these changes- they have a major ROI- it may also benefit you in the future in maintenance and demonstrating your abilities that your landlord will never want to increase the rent:)
I think you're asking a lot, to be honest. You say that you're planning to stay "for a long while". At the same time you're asking for cosmetic changes that are going to benefit only you but on your landlord's dime. By the time you move out, the carpet and vanity will be old and worn, so where is the return on investment to the landlord?
You must have some sort of impression of your landlord's attitude. If you think he might be willing, I would broach the subject first, offering to do legwork on costs, etc. If you already suspect the landlord is the type where money is all that matters (i.e., no pride) or that is obvious when you make the suggestions, face the fact that you are on your own.
To call something 25 cent carpet conjures up a picture of thin, hard and industrial. If so, buy a nice piece of carpet and put it over top the cheap stuff. Take it with you or get rid of it when you leave. If the old carpet is thick and over thick padding, obviously you can't do that, but it means the old carpet was not cheaply done. It may just be ugly, but you knew that going in and took the place without broaching the subject of carpet change.
If you want hardwood or something, you better hope you have an unusually wonderful landlord.
Bathroom vanity: if it is structurally sound, personally I would look for a DIY redecorating idea, like painting, and take the chance on paying the price-via retined security deposit amount-when vacating.
Without discussion before signing the lease, you get what you "didn't" ask for.
SHOW PHOTOS - I had an elderly land lady who I didn't think would let me paint the paneling in the house I was in, so I took a book that had a great photo of a room with the paneling painted to show her how good it would look. She loved it and was happy for me to do it. Photos are always helpful!
I am friends with my landlord who owns/manages over 400 units in several differnet buildings. They could be convinced to allow a tenant to make changes if it added value but they certainly would not pay for it. Additionally they probably wouldn't allow you to make significant changes because they feel that if any of their other tenants see those changes then they are owed them as well. It,s a slippery slope depending on who your landlord is.
You could approach it from the rent credit perspective. Instead of giving him your $, see if you can keep what you need to make the improvements. But be accurate with measurements and be able to send him receipts. Since you're working on your personal dwelling, do not charge for labor (since you have a construction background, that might be automatically included in what you typically estimate).
My mom had a renter who wanted to make cosmetic changes to the house and was qualified to do so. Their agreement was, he could make changes with her permission but he did it out of pocket. Like you, he didn't like the vanity area but it was a matter of personal taste and not function so if he was willing to pay for the cosmetic change, she was okay with it.
I just moved into a 1 bd. condo and I am very lucky to have developed a very good relationship with my landlord from day 1. So I was able to paint (whatever colors I wanted!). And I recently asked if I could replace the tiny pedestal sink without storage with a new vanity. I sent them a photo...and they loved it. Yes...I have to pay for it but my landlords said they want the place to feel like my home and want a long term tenant. Just ask nicely, show photos, and let them know it will only improve resale value. Next up on my list are the original 1950's kitchen counter tops!!!! I love my landlords!!
Just a story for all the nasty landlords...I rented an apartment because I liked the location, but was rather depressed that they couldn't have bothered to paint the place after the last smoker/tenant moved out. The walls were yellow & you could see where every picture and knicknack had hung.
I planned to stay for quite awhile, and I painted the livingroom a terra cotta and sponged a light peach over it. It looked really nice and was a major improvement.
One day I had to have maintenance in and he looked around and told me "well, you just lost your deposit". I thought "what an a@@".
I had to move suddenly so I looked at my lease. It said "the apartment was to be left in the same condition as it was found". Kind of hard to replicate smoke stained walls. I called for a move-out inspection to be scheduled for the next day. The landlord laughed at me on the phone and asked "Why?" I replied that it was my right to have one, and it was scheduled for 7:00 a.m.
At 3p.m I went for a 5 gallon pail of white paint. I spent the whole night painting four rooms, ceilings and all. Then I took pictures.
The next morning the landlord was standing on my stoop grinning--until he came in and couldn't pick his jaw off the floor. I asked him to do a walk through and he told me it wouldn't be necessary; he would go to the bank and bring me a check for my deposit right away.
When he came back, he did manage to "man-up" enough to tell me the paint job was better than his maintenance crew had ever done.
Wow. I've gotta say reading some of the landlords comments really worries me. I am currently looking for a new apartment to stay in for a while. I live in LA and rent here is about as much as a mortgage on some houses. I have yet to see an apartment where there isn't something I would want to change. I have seen many places that have these landlords who are really just trying to charge as much as they can for as little as they can. I never understand how they can expect people to want to take care of the place when it is so obvious they don't care as long as they get their money. In these places I wouldn't make changes that I couldn't take with me because it would be giving the landlord money (in the form of future higher rent) When they don't care about maintaining the places. I would think that landlords would want the places to look as nice as they can to make sure when they show them people will want to rent. or so that people will stay for years. I'm new to the whole renting thing and have only had one really bad apartment for one year. so I may be completely off mark about the whole thing.
I don't usually read through so many comments and rarely ever respond to posters, but I had to respond to this one. I am a landlord and also a renter, so I know how both sides of the coin are rubbed. First, as a landlord asking for permission is vital as the landlord will be held responsible for any accidents, etc. However, some of the landlords comments I read are rude bordering to cruel and I would not want to deal with you as a renter. For the ones who had the snarky comments I hope you are never again put in the position of renter with a landlord who doesn't give a da*n. With the economy as it is, if you have a responsible individual in your dwelling and they seem like a decent human being would it not benefit you to at least hear them out, even if was after the negotiations? There are all kinds of reasons people rent. We had to move because my husband was transferred and can't sell our home in this economy, but does that mean we deserve to live in a hovel or someplace that doesn't feel like home? We are in the process of moving due to our landlords funky attitudes and the fact they won't fix anything. When we move next month they will have three of their dwellings empty. What does this tell all of the snarky landlords who are only out to make money?