Hmm

I guess the first thing is to ask them to shut up.

But, I guess, start by sandwiching your comment. Ask them if they hear everything you guys do in your apartment. Perhaps they're just loud.

If there is really a problem, I think the only solution is to take out the joist, soundproof the area behind it, then replace the joist.

There are two ways that sound gets through walls. The first is where the wall doesn't do a good enough job absorbing the sound and lets the waves pass through the materials. The second is impact or transmission noise, where the wall is acting like a conduit for the sound. (think of a thumping speaker making the wall vibrate, or hearing someone's footsteps on the floor above you)

Solid wood does a good enough job absorbing sound, though a pretty poor job of preventing impact noises. Unless the cracks and checking in the columns go all the way through and leave openings between your two rooms, it's probably not the timbers. What is most likely happening is that the wall separating you from your neighbors has little or no insulation in it. It's probably just studs and drywall, and that does practically nothing to absorb sound or prevent transmission. It's also why adding a layer of drywall helped a little, but not much. Sound may also be coming through the upper portion of the wall, where it looks like the rafters and subfloor above continue into the other apartment.

Short of tearing off the drywall and re-insulating your wall, try filling up any cracks between wood and plaster with a foam spray, and locate any major holes/cracks in the beam that you could "seal up" without ruining the weathered look of the beams.

House sounds historic, if you're just an experienced diy-er i would get the opinion of a historic preservationist (several firms in the chicago area, or find a university that offers the degree who would be willing to give you advice) to have their input since you could really destroy the historic integrity (not to mention structural) if you blindly undertake something... Not saying you would, just saying you should be informed before you do anything in case it’s the last remaining example of a certain type of timber structure or something rare like that.

Also, I totally agree with the above comment, understanding the materials is your first line of defense.

I doubt you could just take out the joist without major cribbing, which might not be feasible even if you own the apt. Try filling the gaps with Low-Expansion foam, the insulation type. You can buy cans of it pretty cheaply at Home Despot-type places. But make extra extra sure it's the low-expansion, not regular foam insulation. And I'd give your neighbors a heads-up that your going to try it (perhaps in the same conversation where you ask if they can hear you as well as you can hear them), in case it starts shooting out into their apt. and they think aliens are exploding out of the woodwork.

I work in a nearby loft space that looks like it's similarly constructed. I doubt it's historic -- there are many loft-converted factory buildings around here.

I agree with ErikTheRed. Your neighbors might just be outside voice, stompy types who never hear you. If you make them aware that you can hear them so clearly, they might not care, but they might try to keep it down out of respect or out of embarrassment/to retain some privacy.

I've initiated conversations about noise by apologizing for some recent time I was noisy and saying that I hope I didn't disturb them. Each time, the neighbor responded by asking if they're ever too loud or telling me to let them know if they ever get too loud. It's easy then to segue into, "Well, we actually can hear you talking sometimes..."

If that works out and you make some of the improvements suggested here, I bet it makes a world of difference.

Do your neighbors have hardwoods? I've often found people without any rugs or padding on the floors to come across loud on my side since the sound reverberates.

Hi All,
Thanks for the comments.
Just to clarify:
-We are very cool with our neighbors. They are not unusually loud.
- They have 2 small kids. One of those kids has a crib in this same corner of their apt.
- We installed an extra layer of drywall with green glue. We also sealed the edges with green glue sealant.
- I don't have a problem with the level of noise that normally transfers through the wall.
- I can hear particular conversations and sounds as if they are happening in the room. They are at a different volume than most sounds.
- I believe there are gaps in the brick, metal and wood in the pictured corner. When our neighbors are positioned just right the sound travels straight through these gaps.

I appreciate all the advice about etiquette and dry wall. I was hoping to address the specific corner area. I see the recommendation for foam (thanks m'elizabeth) . I've read that foam also acts as a conduit for noise and can make the problem worse not better. Does anyone have experience with foam and other fillers for sound proofing.

Thanks everyone.
Cheers,
Max

Some folks in my building have the same issues/problems. When I'm in their loft, some sounds — including conversations — are crystal clear.

Good luck.

Looking at the photos the first thing I notice is NOT the wall, but rather the ceiling. Does that ceiling continue on to a room on the other side of the wall where the noise is coming from? If so that is where the noise is coming through.

Urgan,
The dry wall is sealed at the top with green glue sealant. The wood in the ceiling continues through to the other side but there is a tight seal along the top.
There may not be the same tight seal along the top of the joist, which is my concern.

If you think there are gaps or holes somewhere in the corner you could try working with your neighbor to locate them. Setup a fan on your neighbors side and use a stick of incense to locate the draft.

In my opinion, the likely cause of the sound transference is the wooden timbers. Most likely they are shared by your neighbor and run directly into their living space. Depending on the frequency of the voice, the sound may seem louder and transfer into your space.

To eliminate the sound from transferring in that case you would literally have to create a break - a disconnect between the continuous timber.

I'm not concerned with where the wall is meeting the ceiling. I'm concerned with sound coming THROUGH the ceiling itself. Example : http://supersoundproofing.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1659.0

In my experience spray foam doesn't work. I tried using it to fill a gap between between a shared wall and the exterior brick wall in a loft I lived in years ago. It stopped air from flowing between the units but did essentially nothing to block sound.

Considering removing the baseboards along the offending wall of the neighbor's apartment and cutting the floorboards with a circular saw. One of the primary ways sound is transferred from room to room is along the beams, joists/rafters, and floorboards that run between the rooms. Given that the beam is not continuous - I have to admit, that picture doesn't exactly make the novice engineer in me jump for joy - and that you shouldn't cut the rafters, the floorboards are your next best bet. Plus, your landlord is not likely to notice.

I don't think you're going to make a lot of progress with spray foam or other materials like that. Sound isn't like a cold air draft - it's not just flowing through a leak, it's traveling along a medium - aim for breaking up its path or creating a new layer that contains it. A dropped ceiling, however miserable, would fix your problem in a heartbeat.

Sound waves are conducted through walls via solid materials - sheetrock, studs, plumbing, spray foam, etc. The way to soundproof between apartments is to eliminate as many common materials as possible and leave an air gap in between wall surfaces.

Gluging a layer of sheetrock onto your existing wall was pretty much a waste - You've simply added material to help conduct soundwaves.

They way to most effectively eliminate sound transfer would be to construct a wall that's completely independent of the party-wall and insulate in between - but of course, that would eliminate some floor space as well as the architectural detail of the columns, etc.

Unfortunately, loft spaces were never meant for privacy as they were designed for factories and workrooms where noise is just part of the environment - If you really want quiet, it's probably best to sell and move into a building that was designed for residential use.

I have a loft in Roscoe Village and experience the same exact thing. Some places in the unit are completely quiet and in other spots, you can hear an entire conversation. A friend sent me to this site: www.soundprooffoam.com/acoustic.html?page_type=Sound Absorption

As a renter, it's not worth the investment for us, but may be worth it for you.

bepsf: An extra layer on both sides _will_ knock the STC of the wall up about 10 points.

I would agree with checking the seal at the top of the timber beam, Sheetrock makes an acoustical sealant (http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-acoustical-sealant.html) that is specially made for noise abatement.

A word of caution before doing anything major - check to make sure that the wall isn't supposed to be fire-rated as that will adjust what you can do (yes, I know there is wood there, heavy timber actually can last longer than steel to hold up a building depending on circumstances)

As for the wall: One way to eliminate the sound transmission would be to take the GWB down to the studs and adding in a horizontal Z-channel at 16" o.c. (this eliminates most of the connection points), then add sound attenuation batts into the wall cavity. check to see if any of the elec boxes are back to back as that could be a source too. then use 5/8" GWB (you can get special sound deadening boards with metal in it but they are expensive).

Perhaps you might want to re-think your objective. If you can't afford to make the engineering changes, you could possibly muffle the sound enough so that you aren't hearing actual conversations, but just the sound of people talking.
Layers of very thin fabric with air between them will muffle sound. Single layers of velvet, corduroy, felt and similar fabrics muffle sound. I use two layers of sheer fabric with a velvet layer on top.
Only you will know how you can drape/apply/use fabrics in this space. The nice thing is that you can try this cheaply by picking up sheets and blankets at a thrift store to see if it works and how you can set it up.
You might be satisfied with just dampening the sound.

Whatever you decide to do I really recommend that you hire a professional to come in and assess the situation and install any soundproofing. There are different types of sounds—those such as voices and the TV and those generated by people walking, jumping, hammering, whatever. I'm not an expert but I've had some soundproofing done in my home and actually recommended that I not do it in one area of my home because the guy said that without ripping everything down to the studs and installing rubber and steel plate, blowing insulation into the walls was not going to do much to reduce the type of noise I wanted to reduce which was footsteps, jumping etc. If you're serious about fixing the problem I would not just assume that the sound is coming from the joist. Although you could try some of the recommended solutions to see if it works before calling in the pros.

Can the neighbors hear you as well? Since you are friendly - and I assume they are eager for you not to hear their private conversations -

Perhaps it could be addressed from their side if they have an easier corner to work with. i.e., adding the insulated walls suggested above. With you footing the bill, of course. It would be money you're willing to spend in your place. to soundproof, but just happens to be somewhere else. However, you are still guessing where it's coming from, before wall building you might discuss heavy drapes or blankets on the wall to see if it helps.

One of my friends asked me to post this...

I feel your pain. I had horrible issues this summer with soundproofing in my bedroom.
My neighbors had a screaming newborn which made sleeping in my bedroom
impossible. I talked to them, but they did not seem to care. I combed through
numerous websites and educated myself on soundproofing. My problem ended up being
flanking noise coming across my window. Ultimately I had to cover up my window 7” and reduced the noise by about 95%. I also created an air pocket in between my old wall and new wall, used sound proof putty to cover all the outlets and any other metal junction boxes etc. I used mass loaded vinyl, and soundproofing drywall.

The other posts are correct in that you need to fill the gaps. They make a
soundproofing putty which might be something to use in the gaps.
Did you create an airpocket in between your walls prior to adding the drywall?
The airpocket is key. It does sound like you have flanking noise coming from the metal
by the timbers. I had a great contractor and we worked through the issues together.
Your problem is unique as you cannot put drywall over your timbers. Caulking
every inch of gap where the walls and ceiling connect is also very important.

The contractor I used was David Synder 773-671-9018. I actually interviewed 3 and
picked him. Very professional and precise. Good luck!

Have you considered incorporating a sound dampening technique in your decor?
http://gizmodo.com/#!100995/sound+dampening-cardboard-wall-sculpture

I know a cafe that hung burlap coffee sacks from the ceiling to reduce sound from the stage bouncing around. I couldn't find a picture but the look was pretty cool.