apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I'm contemplating what's more ludicrous - bothering to make a knock-off version of a white ceramic horse, or charging $345 for a ceramic white horse. Let's just say it's a tie.

all due respect, but most of adler's ceramic animals are knock-offs of mid-century pieces. so really all target is doing is capitalizing on the *popularization* that adler has brought to those forms.

I think this sort of object is really only cool if it comes with some funky story of having found it at a flea market of Goodwill. Adler's are knock-offs to begin with. Paying $345 or buying it at Target both seem lame.

I agree with Christopher8. Adler's pieces are much more beautiful and tasteful, in my opinion, but unfortunately that's a car payment for me right there ( and then some!).

I have mixed feelings on this one...

Many, if not most, of JA's designs are definitely extremely derivative of the works of artists from previous eras. Many are flat out "knock-offs" at extreme prices.

That doesn't justify Target doing the same though.

I also heard through the grapevine that JA had signed a deal w/Target. At the time I thought that was unsubstantiated gossip but now I am wondering...

Ah, i agree with twelveindustries and yes... tie.

I bought the adler elephant bank... it was only $65 ;)

My question has always been how many of the people buying these knock offs from a mainstream store like Target even know they're doing so? It seems if you know/follow/love design trends, then you wouldn't be doing your home decor shopping at Target and especially wouldn't buy an obvious knock off. I guess I just don't see the point in replicating obscure items in for such a mainstream market that isn't going to 'get it'. Why bother? It's not like a fashion knock off of an original that is highly visible to the average consumer.

I saw that horse on a recent trip and admired it without knowing it was a knock off (unlike Targets silver pig bank) and now I can't figure out if I like it less knowing what its intent is.

i would not buy the knock-offs but neither would I buy Adler's pieces. i don't think they are very special

Target isn't alone in this. I've seen JA knock offs at West Elm and other places as well. While JA's pieces are rather pricey, they do have appeal and something that the knock offs do not have...QUALITY.

I doubt that the average shopper at Target knows what they are buying or that it is a poor quality knock off, or if they would care if they knew. People go to Target looking for "cheap chic" not "happy chic".

At $385, the JA horse is much too pricey for something in my house that my nephews will probably break. At $14.99, the Target knock off is just garish and cheap.

I would like to see more truly unique pieces from JA that don't like Dora Mar "knock offs" though...

I love design And shop at Target :)

Adler's knockoffs of Bjorn Wiinblad make me less sympathetic to this situation.

Sometimes people love to read design blogs (like apartment therapy) but can not afford the huge price tag for the "real" piece. So, they buy a knock off. Maybe they even buy it at Target. To imply that because you shop at Target that you don't care how your home looks or do not care about good design is wrong.

Quite frankly, I don't even like this horse, but if I were going to buy it, I would buy the cheaper one. I am not buying a piece of ceramic for over 300 dollars unless it is a handmade original.

I also love design and shop at Target.

They're not as cute as the Adler ones but they're only $14.99. I always thought Adler's stuff was too cute for my apartment and too expensive for a kids room - so this might fit in a kids room. I have no problem with knock offs either - I can't afford anything I truly like. :(

Whoa! I heart me some design, and shop at target!
1) super cute dwell studio throw pillows bought this weekend
2) designer retail price vs mainstream retail prices... i'd rather spend the cash on travel.

I just recently purchased a west elm dining set over a room and board one because the cheaper one gave me the slack to buy tickets to Hawaii. Everybody has priorities.

i agree completely with you visualingual. nothing better than finding a unique piece at the thrift store or goodwill. way better than buying mainstream. i only go to target if i need toliet paper...

It seems if you know/follow/love design trends, then you wouldn't be doing your home decor shopping at Target and especially wouldn't buy an obvious knock off.
----------------------
This made me laugh out loud. Give me a break!!!

It's an animal figurine. It's not a knock-off--if anything, it's a "knock-off" of a...ummm..HORSE. I personally think it looks kinda cool; it reminds me of Chinese pottery I've seen.

Whether it's a knock off or not an important note about seeing items made at these prices is "how do they do that"?
**If you are interested in seeing the ramificatons of this type of manufacturing, you may enjoy this very informative, somewhat silly production. This video has totally changed my view on mass produced products.
I am not associated with the company who produced or created this in any way, shape or form. I just found it extremely enlightening.
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
It's about 20 min long but well worth the education.

I'd never buy this horse or elephant from Target - it looks like cheap press-moulded junk from China.

As much as I like JA's work in general, the idea of spending $385 for a JA horse isn't reasonable when I could get a real vintage Bitossi Rimini-Blu horse in perfect condition for @ $250-300 off eBay or just pay $195 for a brand new Bitossi re-issue from the factory in Italy.

On the other hand, the vintage Bitossi Rimini-Blu Elephants are rarer than the horses and also run @ $250 in perfect condition - the re-issues are about $150, making JA's $68 Elephant banks a relative value.

@Enamorada If you're interested in design and are on a tight budget, there's very few places *besides* Target where you can do your shopping. Say what you will about the fact that they're selling knock-offs, but Target obviously is a place that cares about design and they hire many designers to create Target versions of their high-end products (and by "cares" I don't mean the "care enough to spend $3,000 on an original well-designed coat hanger" kind of cares), compared to Kmart or Walmart that in most cases don't.

Talloush you are on the right path! (In my opinion) These are a knockoff of the statues at the Ming Dynasty Tombs. I remember being able to buy similar products at the tourist market there....This probably means Target probably just bought it from the same factories that sent ppl to sell it at the tourist site. And since I last saw them several years ago, I would conclude Adler was 'inspired' by Target's suppliers (who I guess are in China?)...so doesn't that mean Adler actually copied Target's suppliers....lol

And making animal figurines in white ceramic is not exactly copying is it? The Adler one looks pretty different from the Target one so I definitely don't think this was the intention.

i have enough stuff that serves no function except to adorn... in fact i need to scale down more. i don't need more tchachke like this as cute as it is.

Adler knocks off the 50s and Target knocks off Adler. It's all cyclical.

I'd buy it at Target for $14.99 if it fit my style. I'd never buy something like it for $300 . Neither a JA nor a Bitossi Rimini-Blu.

And -- where do you think things at Goodwill or flea markets originate from? It's silly to knock buying the thing at Target (it's "mainstream" and therefore can't possibly be ok) but be totally into buying it after it's already been bought at Target by somebody else, then makes its way to Goodwill after they grow sick of their tacky mainstream Target crap and have chipped it up a bit. (ohh, now it's "cool").

@dblitz1:As a veteran thrift shopper I must say I can spot the difference between an original and what you call " tacky mainstream Target crap ...chipped..up a bit" at 100 paces. Maybe even 200. The materials, manufacturing, design, and quality of originals is completely different than later versions, and this goes for everything from pottery to clothes to furniture.

I'm with those who feel that Adler's work is derivative of a lot of work that came before (including some classic Greek design). Unless you're original, it's not right to criticize those who create a "knock-off" of your knock-off.

I'm pretty sure that Target customers weren't going to buy Adler's pieces anyway. It's a completely different customer base. The main way in which this is bad for "original artists" is that a large number of people having such works makes them less desirable for the elitists who eschew anything that is too popular.

I would neither buy the knock-off nor the original. These are the sort of items that seem stylish for awhile then turn kitschy too soon. Also, I'm not the sort of person to consume frivilously no matter what the price. If I can't see myself loving it for a long time (or really needing it), I'm not going to waste materials and money buying it. A big part of the problem environmentally is people only look at price when deciding to buy and not at the life cycle of the item.

Personally, I don't care for either.
BUT
there are so many differences between the two that I don't see Target's as a knock-off of Adler's at all. I mean, they're both horses. They're both kind of white. That's about all these 2 have in common.

http://www.potterybarnkids.com/products/md3300/index.cfm?pkey=caccbab%7Cb

similar look

Knock-off? Adler's is a knock off. Target makes no pretense of being an all original creative design studio. Everything they sell is a derivation of something already in the market. Actually, I guess the same can be and has been said of Adler. His minions have produced some wonderful and beautiful items including my sofa, but a boxy chenille sofa with high arms is hardly original. I had about 30 essentially similar ones to choose from including some dating from before he was born.

Nix with the snobbery. If you were all that, you wouldn't be here doing this....

So... let me get this straight. Middle class people, which is Target's demographic, don't deserve nice things - and people shouldn't buy mass produced decorative objects without a complete genealogy and a formal education in contemporary design.

These are snobbish and pretty revolting attitudes.

Well, entitled kids, I grew up working class at a time when there was no affordable design and buying things second hand (i.e., thrift shop) was a a sign that you were just plain poor. When we got our first apartments, we shopped at Azuma, an Asian import store levels below Target, because that was the best design we could find, and all we could afford. We had no idea what was a knock off. And we could have cared less. It had style. It made our apartments different, and pretty. It made us happy.

Today, my net worth is considerable. When my mother went into a nursing home, I did her entire room in matching linens and accessories from Target. She loved it, as did everyone else. And if someone wants to buy a $15 ceramic at Target, I hope they enjoy it. The folks who "have" to buy JA "originals" should donate the money to charity.

Unless your decorating style just calls for little white ceramics horses, I don't see why one would want to buy one of these things. It's not necessarily price or value that matters, but any knick-knacks that take up space in a house should come with a better story than "I went to target and spent 15 bucks on some random piece of junk made in China" - just my opinion.

$14.99 is enough money to take the bus to a thrift store and buy something that's actually vintage. Shopping for pieces of art at Target seems a little... lame? boring? not creative?

I'm with Taureg on this. As an artist with high aspirations and little cash, I buy what I love and if I can't afford it, find some way to create or barter for it. Other folks with less time or certain capacities buy the pricey stuff or if they can't, go to Ikea or Target or a few price points up, West Elm or CB2. As for JA and his ilk, call it art and the price tag seems less intimidating. Or don't, and don't buy it. It's really that simple.

It's a knickknack. How to put some details in your home? Put out some knickknacks. "Actually vintage" crap (sometimes). I go to my local thrift stores and see miles of piles of junk, like this horsey's going to be when whoever buys it wonders why they bought it... It's not special, but you know, not everything has to be, it just has to appeal to you when you're at the store. Fun little horsey if you wanted one, but there's no reason to say there's no reason Target shouldn't be selling people things to make them feel good about where they live.. if this horsey's not apartment therapy, I don't know what is.

Before reading the comments, I thought I was one of the few who just wasn't "getting" it. Good to know I'm not alone.

I don't see what's so great about either one. The chotchke isn't worth $14.99, nevermind $385.

Peace mskk. Perhaps the thrift stores you have at hand are better than the ones I'm familiar with.

I don't shop at thrift stores because I don't like second-hand stuff. I DO give them donations. Including my cheap mainstream crap from Target.

Target is fantastic for all sorts and design wise is often right up my alley. Sometimes it not (little white horses for example)
The assumption that we have no style or taste by shopping there is ridiculous and offensive. I also shop at Ikea. Does my home look like a page from a catalogue? (I should be so lucky at this point) No it doesn't because I ALSO shop at thrift stores, ebay, etsy and I personalise things.
Quite honestly I think some people need to get off there little white jonathan adler horses....

If you're interested in design and are on a tight budget, there's very few places *besides* Target where you can do your shopping.

Were this true, AT probably wouldn't exist. I'd venture to say that a lot of its audience is concerned about price, shopping on a budget, and perhaps has higher-end taste than budget. So many of AT's posts revolve around bargains -- weekly sales, used furniture, "look for less," creative hacks, etc.

I don't think people have to be concerned with an object's pedigree, but if you care about design [say, if you read AT], then you probably know/want to know the back stories. For me, this bit of decorative whimsy has to come with a story, whether you inherited it from your grandma, bought it on a trip, or it caught your eye at Goodwill. It has to mean something and, sorry, I don't personally think that "I bought it at Target" really means a whole lot.

For the sake of disclosure, I've always been on an extremely tight budget but my home includes only one Target item [table runner] and two things from Ikea [bookcase and pot rack]. There are alternatives; that's why AT exists.

I noticed a similar difference in quality/elegance with a Target sand dollar vase compared to ones that Crate & Barrel carries. The Target one was much smaller than either of the two sizes C&B carries and lacked the level of detail that the C&B ones had.

If I like it I am going to buy it regardless if I found it at a thrift store, target, or any other place I like to shop/browse.

Such snobbery!!!

Seeing everyone get worked into a frenzy over things like a ceramic horse is one of the reasons I love reading Apartment Therapy.

Obviously Target is trying to cash in on JA's niche - it's what the do. And right on for that - paying $350 for a tiny ceramic horse is so pretentious. And it's sooooo played out anyway.

Design for All!

Keep Calm and Carry On!

For Like Ever!

Owls!

Deers!

Birdies!

Plant life motifs!

www.thebitterfoodie.blogspot.com

Seriously, for a site that supposedly embraces personal design space from all places and at all prices, there is a lot of scoffing, judging and looking down one's nose at people.

If people want it, they will buy it, if they don't they won't. I would hardly consider this item being worthy of some of the lectures and soap box preaching I have seen in here.

Now let me get off my soap-box. :D

That horse reminds me of this dog:

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/la/outdoor-furniture/puppy-by-cb2-051702

I do not see what is all the big deal about that dog, but if someone likes it or wants to spend a lot of money on it because someone told them it's art, that has to be ok. If someone likes it only enough to spend $15-20 on it, they have a little more of the right idea. It's some emperor's new dog or something. Whimsical is fine alrighty, but some people are very strict about how they acquire their whimsies!

"Seeing everyone get worked into a frenzy over things like a ceramic horse is one of the reasons I love reading Apartment Therapy."

Tracy - that's greatness!

@visuallingual AT has something for everyone. I enjoy seeing posts about crazy architectural buildings or some amazing bathroom from Italy that I could never even dream of ever affording. I also enjoy reading about brand new $350 couch pillows that I wouldn't buy, but would consider something similar from 2modern or Design Public for $90, or something cheaper from a new collection at Ikea.

I don't by particularly enjoy going to flee markets and enjoying the "stories" of other people's used treasures. I live in NYC and the few times I've replied to listings of furnitre and stuff like that, they were taken by someone else (same with getting a new apartment in this city...). I like clean, *new* modern-looking things (though I probably wouldn't buy a chachki like this horse, although I have a Bed Bath Beyond knock-off of West Elm's hexagonal shelves that need something inside them...).

Sometimes I'll buy something that'll strain my budget, sometimes I'll find it on sale at a store that would normally strain my budget, and sometimes I'll find that perfect thing in Target or Ikea. I have trouble enough keeping up with AT for all of those needs, let alone trying to track down a beat up chair from an anonymous person on Craigslist. :) And that's OK for me, and going to flea markets is OK for you, we're both happy.

he he thanks EastVillageAmy!!

I think my point is proven by the number of comments regarding this stupid horse issue.

It's testament to the priorities of the average AT reader if truly valuable posts like "How to use less chemicals while cleaning" or something like it only garner 4-5 paltry responses, but this topic RAGES.

:)

Bart, I agree with you. My personal aesthetic, budget, and sense of patience for flea markets are probably in line with yours. As I mentioned, a lot of AT's posts do focus on different ways of getting exactly the look you want, including saving money in the process. One way to do that is to become a savvier shopper, and one way to do that is to troll flea markets, Goodwills, etc. So, the comment about a lack of budget-shopping options beyond Target astounds me, when I've become a much smarter shopper partly thanks to AT.

By "story," I don't just mean the anecdote of how you came to own something, but also the pedigree of the design -- who came up with it, how, when, why, etc. That's another thing that's often covered on AT, so it seems that this audience tends to care about the stories behind the objects.

I must be hopelessly biased, because this silly figurine screams "flea market" to me and, given that, I just see it coming from that kind of place, with the obligatory story behind it.

am i missing something? doesn't adler work--oops! i mean design--for target? i guess my internet was down for the 'adler is gone from target & we're all wearing black armbands & are in mourning for the next few weeks' post.

Visualingual, I guess we also hold the value of finding something at Target a little differently too, hehe. If I get something from there that looks really good (like the Hudson console TV stand, which is made with real wood and was really fun to assemble), that becomes a topic of conversation. "Wow, you got that from Target!?!?" I don't know if you were referring to me, but I don't consider Target to be the *only* place to find good design on a budget, but I do think it's *a* good place to shop at and am happy that they pay attention to design. Even with product design, now everybody is starting to carry Method products but for a while they were the only place where I could get them.

Another thing to consider is that people who live in small apartments don't get to do some of the DIY stuff mentioned at AT too. Since I don't have a spare room (or garage) for sawing, etc., I'm not in the market for those kinds of tools or have a setup to put together pots, or have a place to sand and stain a piece of furniture without having to find a somewhere to sleep for a few nights until the chemicals dry out. Nor do I even have time to do that stuff on top of other projects I'd like to work on. So I like to buy things, new. :)

Does anyone think Jonathan Adler's handcrafting his stuff? Ever wonder where his factory is?

And while thrift shopping is great, most of LA has been combed and recombed and picked over again and again. Maybe Tulsa or Des Moines has more potential.

And this:
"It seems if you know/follow/love design trends, then you wouldn't be doing your home decor shopping at Target and especially wouldn't buy an obvious knock off."

"Know/love/follow design trends" pretty much ensures you're a 15 year old girl.

Bart, I was responding specifically to you because you'd written:

If you're interested in design and are on a tight budget, there's very few places *besides* Target where you can do your shopping.

That seemed like an oversimplification, and you seem to have admitted as much. I think you and I agree over all, just not so much about Target per se. I didn't mean to single you out or pick on you; your statement was just a good starting point for me.

i find it hysterically funny that someone here said he (or she) goes to target just for toilet paper!! must have been kidding....but then i don't know how many or few supermarkets, dollar stores, or mom&pop deli's are on that person's route to target. hehehehe

I'm starting to like this horse a little. WHY WHY WHY?

Having just learned the e-commerce intricacies of SEO (search engine optimization) I am realizing that all of this e-chat is further lining the pockets of both ceramic empires by repeatedly mentioning their names. (We will meet again Lord Vader.)

I am a shop owner of a lovely home decor boutique. I stock a variety of great findings at a variety of prices, but am considered "high end". I can tell you, that I see Target as competition. No joke. And this "drafting of inspiration" between designers is exactly why I work hard to move onto the next thing.

I am looking forward to seeing the video that in2design posted, because unfortunately, when the big box retailers churn out thousands of these types of designs, a lot of factories create a lot of pollution, waste, etc... It is why I chose to celebrate small artists that make ceramic elephants in their basement or rented studios. Neither of these "artists" would apply. (JA's factory is in China, btw.)

Pardon me whilst I step down from my pedestal in my Loeffler Randall for Target heels....

A stack of 1,495 pennies glued together would be more attractive than either of these hideous pieces.

WOW gang I thought if you liked something and it made you feel good buy it ... It is a nice little horse you like it or not!!
i love this site lol ..MAJ