apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

passive aggresive notes seem to work well

Don't do what my next-door neighbor does when the people who rent the house behind me make noise. He sends certified letters of complaint and if those don't achieve the desired effect, he goes over and threatens to try to get them evicted. Needless to say, there's pretty high turnover at that house since he makes life so unpleasant. (For the record, the tenants don't have outdoor parties past about 10:30 and their dogs don't bark at night -- but the fact that the dogs bark at all and that the outdoor parties may drown out the sound of the next-door neighbor's piano practicing seem to irritate him to no end. He's a joy to live next to ... really, a joy.)

I have been the noisy neighbor! My husband and I entertain quite a bit at our Brooklyn brownstone and in the summer, we love to relax with friends in our garden. We have definitely been shushed a couple times by one particularly sensitive neighbor--my favorite line: some of us have jobs!"--but for the most part we try and be respectful by bringing the festivities indoors after 8pm during the week and after 10pm on the weekends. City living includes noise though, so I do find it silly that people expect total quiet when they have chosen to live in a dense urban area...

just a tip to the annoying neighbors using an outdoor space...

i'll use my place as an example, long row of an apartment building, small yard type area in the back.

1. if you have kids, this isn't the place for them to run around and scream all day. We love having windows open, save some energy, feel the breeze, but we don't want to hear your kids. There are larger yard areas not by others windows nearby, go there. The addition or a giant freakin playhouse that you keep on our porch and move out into the yard all the time, just aggravates others more. It is not your yard.

2. This is the biggie. TO ALL SMOKERS. Why are you going outside into shared outdoor spaces to smoke. Is it because you don't like the smell of smoke in your own home/apartment. Guess what, people have their windows opens and they don't want their place to smell like smoke either. I had a neighbor that smoked all the time, as it wafted up into our windows. such a great smell... He just moved, such a great day. YOUR SMOKING SHOULD NOT BE OUR PROBLEM!

Ditto on the smoking...I have smokers all around me and I can't keep my windows open without it filling my apt. It is driving me insane...can't even enjoy my balcony.

@jmorey

I am with you 100% on the going outside to smoke ordeal. When did this become standard policy? Everyone in my apartment complex goes to the balcony for their smoking breaks here.

I'm guessing it's a combination of not wanting their own things to smell like smoke, in addition to hoping to get their deposit back at the end of their lease.

Whatever their reason is, it's not good enough to warrant my apartment smelling like a bar in California from 15 years ago.

I think the worst thing about noisy neighbors is music. I hate being forced to hear their music, especially the bass. Whenever I see articles about outdoor speakers it makes me cringe. We've had very inconsiderate neighbors who seemed to believe that they had a right to play their music as loud as they pleased, whether it disturbed the neighbors or not. Most of the neighbors don't want to rock the boat and so don't say anything, and that leaves it up to the rest of us to put a stop to this public nuisance.

How do I deal with noisy outdoor neighbors? By wishing them well and occasionally joining the party. We are the noisy neighbors more often than not -- I had 40 people over for a bbq party just this weekend. We live in a city, noise is inevitable. Those who hate on their neighbors who are noisy during reasonable hours should move to the burbs.

Barbecues!!
My worst experience was not so much the noise, but the smoke! Here in Northern Germany we have bonfires on Easter Saturday, so that night you have to keep the windows shut shut shut, or you'll have the smell everywhere. On Easter Sunday morning it is advisable to sniff the air before you leave the windows open for long, because sometimes the air needs time to clear. So how lovely it was, on a warm and sunny Easter Sunday afternoon, to have the bedroom windows open while snoozing in the livingroom, by closed windows, due to the neighbours? Bliss....
Less lovely, though, to wake up, look out of the window and think - what's that smoke?????? And find out that those folks had not only placed the BBQ right below MY bedroom window (as opposed to: their own!), they had also not considered it necessary to maybe ring the doorbell and ask me to close the window, which was wide open. The stench......

Outdoor speakers are horrible. I can deal with a LOT more noise than most folks (I used to live right above South Street in Philadelphia, if that means anything to anyone).

But the frat next door have giant outdoor speakers for their parties and they'd crank up the crappy frat boy music until well past 1am, sometimes on weeknights. It drove me to call the cops on them several times. I honestly don't mind the parties and crowd noise (which I can tune out), but having bass rattling my apartment even with all the windows closed is so not cool, brah.

Sigh. Two more months until I am away from the area I'm in. No one around me speaks English and I seriously think they are in a different time zone. The people next to me have several friends over into their 400sq ft studio apt for karaoke every Sunday night; the people in the complex across the way from mine enjoy listening to the first 30 seconds of each mariachi track they have on a CD, loud enough for me to hear it with my windows closed. And the screaming children running around in the parking lot -- what is wrong with these parents?!

Laura
http://www.grafxnerd.net

I totally agree with YoJess...it you can't beat them, join them! You never know what types of people you are going to meet.

My husband and I don't have air conditioning so we have to open the windows to get air moving through!
The problem is we have 4 windows in our tiny apartment. 3 are huge but all open up to loud or unprivate areas.
Our living room opens up to the stairway where EVERYBODY walks by and we hear them anyway so if that window was open it woudl be WAY louder plus we'd have no privacy.
The other two big windows are in our bedroom and spare room. They open up to the parking lot. Where there are tons of loud cars and people outside chatting or smoking. Cigarette smoke blows through my windows regularly.
It's quite annoying to have your apartment smell like cigarettes when you never ever dream of smoking!!
The small window is in the kitchen and it's ok but not much air comes in. SO I feel like we're living with everybody in the parking lot AND everybody living above/below/beside us.

Whenever we have a party, we invite our neighbors. They usually don't come, but the fact that they were invited seems to make them more tolerant of noise.

I agree with YoJess.

How to deal with noisy neighbours? Get used to it. That's the trade off of living in the city. I live in a very noisy neighbourhood and I dont notice it anymore. If it's really loud I close my windows. It's not worth the time, or emotional stress to worry about it. Instead go outside and make some noise yourself. Life is to short, go out and enjoy it.

In regards to the smoking comment. As a non-smoker I would rather have people smoking outside, than in there apartment where it wafts throughout the building and makes my apartment smell. Close your window if it's coming in from outside and bothering you. Jeez, sometimes I feel bad for smokers they just can win with people telling them don't smoke inside and now people complaining don't smoke outside.

I also agree with YoJess. We live in a 3 storey walk up and frequently have people over for balcony bbqs. Last week we came home to a "keep it quiet or else" note posted in the lobby and apparently it was posted by the tenant below us.

We don't mean to be loud but if you live in an urban area and expect total silence move to the burbs.

Also i think the best way to get your neighbors to keep the noise down is be polite. If the person below us just came up to ASK us to keep it down politely we would have no problems doing so. And also she could just come up and join us....

Don't have a HOUSEWARMING immediately.

I've seen it time and time again that people will move into my building and immediately create ill will by first making a big mess in the elevator and hallways, and then throwing a noisy party. You might be quiet and considerate the other 364 days of the year, but if you start off on the wrong foot people will just assume the worst!

These comments are really depressing! To tell people with kids not to let them play outside, because the sound of happy children disturbs your solitude? I cannot believe how intolerant people are.

If you live in a city, you will hear your neighbors--inside and out. If you live in a suburb, you'll hear barking dogs and lawn mowers and kids running around. In most places, there are sirens and planes and birds at 5 in the morning in summer. It's called LIFE. My neighbor is in an African drumming group and when he and his band practice, it is LOUD--but it sounds a lot better if I throw open the windows so I can enjoy it.

My advice to people who can't stand the actions of their neighbors is to move far, far away...off the grid and into the woods or the mountains.

Okay, I live in the "burbs"... It's not so quiet. It is during the winter months, but in the summer everyone bbq's and has parties. In fact, the neighbor behind us all summer long has bbq parties (ironically was my daughters homeroom teacher this last year.) and they play loud music, laugh and basically have fun. On the other side they play music. We have a pool and probably they hear a lot of splashing around on hot nights. The loud music makes it hard to sleep sometimes but the fact is, it is summer, they are having fun and are not trying to harm anyone. It's life!

Over a year ago I lived in a very isolated home that was very large on a big chunk of property and we never knew the neighbors... it was eerily silent. It was a little creepy around this place. No one made friends with each other. I'll take the noise. I like life!

However, I don't like it when people smoke outside... I don't have air-conditioning and it is a must in our home to keep the windows open. THAT I agree is horrible.

I have neighbors with kids. I don't mind hearing them, even if they're shouting and being loud, as long as they're making happy noises. I'm just glad that they're playing outside and having fun. One of them is a screamer, though, and it always scares me when he starts screeching. Any kid who makes that sort of noise had better be dying!

The only other things that really bug me are window-rattling bass and people who let their dogs run around and/or barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark.

sally 305 - I'm live and let live on neighbor noise, too. But someone who sets up a playhouse in the building's shared space without checking with the neighbors first probably underestimates their children's sound impact as well.

Children's long term happiness will depend on how they learn to play well with others, including neighbors who may be working or invalids trying to get some rest.

Neighbors that go outside to smoke is also a complaint about where I live. I live in an L-shaped 8 unit apartment building without air-conditioning and 2 of my neighbors smoke outdoors which goes straight into my apartment.


For people that don't like the sounds of others get a white-noise machine. Mine drowns out my neighbors and traffic noise.

Yeah.
People need to get over things.

There are limits to all kinds of noise, but the basic stuff (lawn mowers, kids, dogs, every-weekend-summer BBQs) is just par for the course. If you want to live in a vibrant and participatory place.

I particularly hate it when apartment dwellers get angry about noise - YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY OTHER HUMANS! On ALL sides!! Go live on a farm if you want quiet. If you knock on my door and complain about (almost) anything, I will lose my miiiiind!

Oh, and as for smoking -
I have a neighbour who smokes on his balcony and the smell comes directly into our place. But how in the world could I get angry?! He can do whatever he wants!

The onus is on ME to close my doors and windows temporarily while this is happening. I smell it, I get up from the couch and pull the sliding door closed. No big deal. It would be beyond obnoxious for me to blame him for wind patterns.

Excellent point, feathers. I love the sound of children playing and having a good time. As a neighbor, it is paramount to be considerate of those who live around you. Wether it be dinner parties during the week or a kid's party on a Saturday, simply notifying your neighbors that there will be activity and being mindful of the noise level goes a long way in keeping neighborly relations positive.

well "sally305" I think that Parents should be more responsible with their kids not just let them go outside and play and do whatever they want.I just move to this apartments and when we firts move there where kids playing around all the afternoons and no parents around and then they start breaking the lights, they start grabing the dogs poop BAGs and fill them with water from the fountain and run around throwing them around, breaking branches from the palms and plants and they were really really but I mean really loud, One day my husband and I were enjoying the afternoon and he was practicing gitar and one of the kids told us to keep it quiet but they were really Loud,until my some neighbors complain about it...Now if they see a kid with out a parent its $100.00 fine and its much quiet and much cleaner I really think that you have to take care of not only your apartment but also around it..

I would much rather hear happy children noises and parties (with music at respectable levels) than the neighbors I had for the last two years.....They are FINALLY evicted! For two years I confronted them, complained to their landlord and finally had to resort to calling the cops when their loud drunken fights got to such a volume that I could hear them inside my house when I was at the other end of it with the radio on and all windows shut! They were fighting in between my house and their apartment building and my house shook as they threw people off of it! I am glad I don't have to listen to the CONSTANT fighting and cursing this summer.

I live in an area that could be called suburban, and my neighborhood USED TO be quiet.

Then came the white-trash invasion.

My newer neighbors are up half the night partying in the pool area, and because sound waves travel better through water than through air, I can hear EVERYTHING that goes on (which is saying something, since my hearing isn't really that great).

For extra fun, two of them chain-smoke outside - I wouldn't mind too much if they were smoking on their own balcony or patio, but both of them like to stand awfully close to my door while smoking. I have allergies and asthma, and moved to this area partly because it has one of America's LOWEST concentrations of smokers and several laws restricting smoking in certain public areas. Grrrr.

I'm never, ever going to live near a pool again.

I don't like hearing other people's crappy music or construction sounds. But...I realize I live in the city and that's life I suppose. The things that really get to me are hearing neighbors fight and/or loud sex sounds.

For the record, I completely agree that parents need to be responsible for their children and set reasonable expectations for their behavior and loudness. But I also believe that "it takes a village" to raise children, and that good neighbors should feel comfortable telling kids when they're being obnoxious or destructive if the parents aren't close by. (After kids reach a certain age, of course the parents aren't constantly within eyesight or earshot.)

I don't think kids should have to worry about making noise during the middle of the day when someone might be working or taking a nap. When else are they supposed to play, especially in the summer? We all recognize the societal impact of raising a generation of sedentary kids who are overweight and out of shape for spending too much time indoors glued to the TV or computer. It benefits everybody to have active, healthy children in our society.

I totally agree on the smoking! It's way worse than noise! It's the same thing in cars, people roll down their windows and blow out the smoke, so on a rare nice day I can't enjoy the weather. If YOU want to smoke, roll your windows up and enjoy all that poison- don't poison me. It's one thing if you have a house and you're smoking in your own yard, but in homes with close proximity have some consideration.

I don't mind hearing people's music too much, it's when they have that extra base or whatever it is and you can actually FEEL it. OMG, that's so annoying! You can be so far away and still feel the beat go through your body.

Okay, my problem with the smoking neighbors really comes from the fact that after smoking on the balcony, they flick their cig butts and they land on my shade canopy below. They've already burnt three holes in the shade sail. And I never see them doing it so that I can ask them to find a trash bin for their butts.

i went through this just this past weekend with noisy neighbors. my neighbors decided to have a roof party and instead of thinking to buy an extension cord to put the radio up with them, instead they decided to open all their windows and blast their music loud. one window was directly across one of my windows and then could you imagine. i had their music playing in my entire house! it was ridiculous!! so my husband was gracious enough to let them borrow an extension cord but my god, couldn't they have thought of that first?! and believe me, this isn't the first time either. they are so inconsiderate that it makes me sick to even look at them. i'm not even cordial to them because i hate them. oh ... i'm so glad that we had this discussion today! lol!! :)

The neighbors we have here love to go out and have belching contests, talk much louder than normal, etc. The ground down below our balcony is almost completely covered with their cigarette butts. It's disgusting.

I'm sorry but I am sick of the whole "you live in a city so put up with me being annoying argument." The fact that I chose to live in a city does not mean that I have to put up with neighbors being unneccessarily loud or their smoke outside my window. In fact, living in a dense urban environment should mean that people should be even MORE considerate of their neighbors since we are all so close to each other.

I don't mind the occassional party as long as its within reasonable hours. I do mind being kept up all night, cigarette smoke wafting into my apartment and children screaming at the top of their lugs. I think that should be common decency no matter where I happen to live.

My husband and I live in a small condo in the Caribbean. Caribbean buildings are are not insulated and windows remain open for comfort, so sound travels at the most reasonable decibel levels. We can hear quiet conversation, phones ringing, people sneezing, etc. The units near us are often unoccupied, so we are lucky.

Our balcony is small and open to the other neighbors'. We rarely sit out there and eat. It's rather awkward, as there's no way for either party to have a private meal or conversation.

There's little that can be done about noisy neighbors here, so people put up with it around here when someone has a domestic argument or a late-night dinner party. Our neighbors are very polite, understanding that we live in close quarters...small price to pay for the lifestyle and location.

http://styleodyssey.blogspot.com/

I was raised off the grid and have been living in cities for the past five years. My frustrations with unnecessary noise/urban living (blaring base, late parties on weeknights, never ending car alarms, smokers outside my bedroom window) have me packing for the woods again. I realize the city and all its inhabitants aren't going to change. More importantly, I realize I'm going to become an angry old lady way before my time if I keep living here.

Silence to me is not creepy at all; it's necessary. I've been sleeping to my white noise machine for years. I can't wait to give it away.

I live right downtown in an older cement and brick high-rise (with the awesomeness soundproofing that means - my husband and I can yell from one room to another and not hear one another), so I am used to noise seeping in from the outdoors (in fact, I don't think I could sleep without it). The sirens, the loud yells at 3am when drunk college students are trying to hail cabs....I'm used to it all. That doesn't mean that it is even remotely acceptable to expect your neighbours to roll with whatever noise/exhaust you output just because you live in an urban area.

I love my apartment, I love the area of the city I live in, but I could do without the tobacco and pot. So far we've just been closing the doors and hoping that the place will air out quickly, but with the nice weather and the lounging on the balconies that always brings, we're expecting the same as last year. The smell of pot in our apartment every two hours (and by the time you smell it....it has gotten into four rooms that all have their windows open up in the same direction) that seems to clear just as we smell it again. I'm definitely not looking forward to that.

Regarding the "you live in a city so put up with me being annoying argument":

You may find your neighbors' actions annoying: their occasional bbq parties, their smoking outdoors, their loud children, their sex noises. But all of these things (within reason) fall within the realm of reasonable and acceptible biproducts of human living. And when you chose to live in a city--in close quarters with thousands of other humans--you make a choice to occasionally put up with things that annoy you, or go crazy. If you are experiencing the latter, please do everyone a favor and go somewhere more comfortable.

correction: acceptable. gah.

i use earplugs and a fan to block out noise.

Practical Advice: I'm a big proponent of giving neighbors a heads up about parties. Before my housewarming, I posted a note in the lobby inviting neighbors to call the listed number if they'd like to stop by or ask us to quiet down. One couple came (out of 6 units), but I think extending an invitation goes a long way toward making neighbors feel like your noise has not been imposed upon them.

Ranting: Anyone who simply says "you live in the city, so deal with my noise" is suffering from what I think of as Reality TV Show Contestant Syndrome -- people who feel that their actions are always entitled, and that their enjoyment takes precedence over treating others with respect.

There is a normal level of noise (occasional parties, talking outside, babies crying loudly), and then there is a simply rude level of noise (weekly parties, shouting outside, ignoring your barking dog all night). If you have neighbors who are a nuisance, look up some of your local ordinances and laws so that if you do have to confront them, you can put on your legal pants and scare them.

Calmly tell them the loudest legal decibel limit, the exact fine for tossing their cigarette butts on the ground in your shared backyard, the acceptable hours to operate power tools, and throw in some legal terms like quiet enjoyment.

Here's a bit of crude sociology: I wonder whether people in dense urban areas in other countries deal with the same issues or whether there might be cultural differences in terms of behavior. I've heard (anecdotal) that people living in Japan tend to be exceedingly careful about noise, etc. because they live in such close proximity to each other. Perhaps Americans, used to our wide open spaces, tend to be less thoughtful about how our actions might affect neighbors? Hence the "put up or shut up" attitude evinced by some comments here?

And a relevant link: Noise Pollution Clearinghouse.

Hey "Sally 305" Yeah I agree It benefits everybody to have active, healthy children in our society, but that doesnt mean to let your kids lose around not knowing what they are doing! Thats why there is a place called PARK, if your a neighbor you cant tell a kid nothing most of the parents dont like other people talking to their kids and some will miss understand it and then thats when the problem start ..to make it short if you have a kid be responsible of them no mater what age they are..

"Anyone who simply says "you live in the city, so deal with my noise" is suffering from what I think of as Reality TV Show Contestant Syndrome -- people who feel that their actions are always entitled, and that their enjoyment takes precedence over treating others with respect."

Brilliant. I agree completely.

I can't find back the commenter who said... "if people are smoking outside - close your windows."

Okay - so what I am supposed to do, sit by my windows to watch for people who might light up? That's a waste of time.
We don't have air-conditioning - windows HAVE to be open in the summer. You don't know that people are smoking outside your window UNTIL IT ALREADY DRIFTS INSIDE - and now your place stinks.
And I'm supposed to be hot and stuffy until they're done getting their smoke on?

Uh. Nah. People - quit smoking already.
If you started smoking after 1970 you really have no excuse. You're only doing it to be contrary anyway - and then whimper about your 'rights'

Ilovenature4ever,

I take responsibility for my kids--but I don't always know where they are. Until about age 10, sure. But they have been able to roam fairly freely around our mid-sized city since they were preteens. They walk or ride bikes to school, and no, I don't stalk them to make sure they don't cut across someone's lawn or drop a gum wrapper on the sidewalk. They are not toddlers. Part of growing up is LEARNING appropriate social behavior. Parents TEACH them that behavior, but after a certain point we have to trust that they have learned enough to go out in the world on their own. They know it is wrong to litter, to make obnoxious noises, or to be disrespectful of other people's property. And I trust that most of the time they will make good decisions and be a positive part of our community.

Yes, living in the city is noisier then living in the country. Does this mean you have to just put up with everything people do around you? No. I means people should be a bit more considerate, on both sides because we live so close together. If everyone just thinks of themselfes first, nobody will be happy.

I dont mind that we can hear our neighbours across the street who have their balconies facing us or the noise of kids walking home from school. What I do mind is when they listen to loud music and chat loudly untill 3 am on a weekday. I have never complained to them as it doesnt happen often but I did complaine to our neighbours downstairs who would listen to Techno at 2 in the morning (every day of the week). After asking them to turn it down a few times they did. I think in most cases if you ask nicely they will be considerate.

sally305 -- Here's a lesson for you - did you ask all of your neighbors if they wanted to take part in the parenting of your kids? Or even if they wanted children? LOL - sounds ridiculous but so does telling your neighbors to just "deal" with your kids is too. It takes a village to raise a kid is a saying - not something everyone is going to want to do.

Personally I don't have children, not sure if I do...but it annoys the hell out of me if I see children out without parents, especially if they are yelling, running around in the streets, etc. At that point, the parents are just irresponsible - and going with legally, a child has to be TWELVE before you could leave him/her alone at home, so I would figure the same law applies to letting them go off all by themselves with no supervision.

Overall, I can deal with listening to kids outside playing as long as they realize that screaming is not appropriate, that the street is off-limits since people should realize that people who live in apartments have weird hours and might not know you let little Jimmy or little Sally play in the middle of the street, and they don't go around intentionally annoying people (ding dong ditch, vandalism, etc). Now on the inside, if I hear your kid running around the full day long (especially if they are being loud), yes I will probably be contacting the landlord or if it's at night, more than likely you will be talking to the police.

"not sure if I do" -- argh, I meant not sure if I want to

Everything in moderation but ......

Sure my neighbor has her kids play ball and ride their bikes in the hall of my five story walkup that was built in 1910. Im on the second floor shes on the first. Believe me when I say I hear everrrryyy ball bounce and foot trod. If its bad weather I understand even though I live 1 short block from a park. If it's 11:00 at night what the ????

.....pot smoking neighbor that tries to hide the scent with incense.

or how about the party goers returning home at 4:00 in the morning continuing their revelry through the halls into their apartment. I know you had a good time but I don't want to relive the particulars with you at your party decibal.

My big peeve- is it just me? Visiting friends double parking and blasting music for hours out of their car window. This always happens after 9:00. Its a summer ritual but every ?@#!!! night.

Okay. I vented. I feel better. Until something else peeves me.

My child is a toddler and while he is never alone in a communal space (for safety as well as respect reasons), he does make noise. That is the part nature of being a child. I think the key is for the parent is to a least try to be respectful of all reasonable requests -- and for the non-parent to try to understand that kids are not little adults. When we lived in an apartment, we tried to minimize the time our son spent playing in the halls to the point that most neighbors asked to see more of him. But a complaint that an infant is crying late at night? Believe me, I am trying my best to get him to stop and I don't appreciate the note about it.

Now that we live in a townhouse, although still in a city, there is more private space to run and play without disturbing others. If anything, our neighbors' teenager is the noisy one (although I won't let my husband complain). The one issue we had was with the neighbor who lives next to a communal gate. Apparently, he thought we take too long coming in and out of the gate because we have more stuff (stroller etc.). I told him we would try to speed up, but honestly, if you don't like the noise of being next to a communal gate, then you should not have picked the house next door to it.

As to the person with the neighbor who puts the play house in a common area, if it is put there when nobody else is there and moved back to their apartment when they are done, I'm not sure I see the problem.

I think that smoking should be banned in apartment buildings. Secondhand smoke is even more deadly than smoking. Everybody deserves to live in a place that is free from cancer risks like smoking.

I rarely post here and am even more rarely negative, but OMG, you people are whiners!

Yes, it's good for people to be thoughtful of their neighbors, but you all seem to expect them to be invisible and completely silent. And THAT is not thoughtful of your neighbors.

I've never heard anybody who expected kids to stay silent in their own yards. They're not allowed to play in their yard but have to go to the park?

You should check to make sure it's not you who is the bad neighbor.

@slowdown, about the other cultures thing - I can say that here in Hungary, most blocks of flats are built from concrete bricks and they're incredibly sound-proof. So what happens in your flat, stays in your flat.

On the other hand, in my block all the units open onto a common garden / parking lot, and what happens there is not only easy for everyone to hear, the acoustics make it sound like it's happening right inside your flat. Everyone knows this, but no one bothers about it, because we pretend not to hear. I will complain to my flatmate until I'm red in the face, but we would never confront the noisemakers outside because it's their public area too. And, I know that tomorrow it might be me making the noise. Easier to ignore it (and silently give ourselves high blood pressure sulking about it :))

vbp -- I think the person was also complaining the neighbor has decided the playhouse should take up space on the "shared" porch. It would be annoying as heck but there's not a lot that can be done about it unless it intrudes on her side.

rosy -- No one expects their neighbors to be silent. Just some people would rather not hear their neighbors music so well they might as well be in that person's apartment, hear children screaming up and down the halls or outside with no parental supervision, neighbors with friends who take up every parking spot, etc. That is just annoying things people are doing that there isn't much excuse for. To be honest, if I really wanted to hang with my friends, I'd go out somewhere - not expect my neighbors to just deal with the music, all the extra talking and foot traffic, lack of parking spaces, etc.

I have to agree with rosy and I too normally do not post to this.

Your home is where you live and why shouldn't you have friends and family over? I think if people are so sensitive to noise or their neighbors having friends over then perhaps apartment life or city life just isn't for you.

I for one decided to live in the city and welcome the sounds of neighbors children playing outside and my neighbors having friends over. I am a little tired of people deciding to live in such close proximity to others and then complaining about everything. For example, I had a neighbor, who thankfully no longer lives near us, who would not only complain about dinner party noise (at 8pm on a Friday) but the smell of food cooking. So everyone in our building is not supposed to cook at home because one person has issues? I don't think so and for the record , I wasn't the one cooking when the complaint came in :)

That being said one should still try to be nice and not go overboard, but walking around your own apartment (the noisy neighbor post has comment after comment of people complaining about people walking too much in their own apartment, don't live on the 1st floor people!!) having a dog bark when someone is knocking at the door, friends over, children playing and even infants crying in the night are all part of normal everyday living and come with living close to other people.

ChrisGal,

I just hope you never have to depend on the kindness of strangers when you are old or infirm or ever need a helping hand. Part of being a member of a community is respecting and supporting each other. My kids have assisted older people when they have fallen on the sidewalk and no one else has been there to help them get up; they have shoveled snow and mowed lawns and provided companionship to people that actually care about the next generation (who, by the way, will be supporting them, and you, for years to come). I am raising my children to be good citizens of our city, our state, our country, and the world. It astonishes me that anyone--especially a city dweller--could look at their own life in isolation and be so terribly cynical. YOU were a child once, and you probably grated on people's nerves too. And for all you know you have habits that annoy people living around you, even now.

After reading all these posts I am so grateful that I purposely moved to a place that still values community and neighborly kindness and basic civility. No, it's not perfect, but it sounds a whole lot better than anyplace where people are judgmental and critical and live their lives full of resentment and uppity self-righteousness.

sally305 -- Wow what a generalization - here's a fact for you: I'm physically disabled and am on social security now. For someone who preaches kindness, you are sure one to assume.

There's a list of things I would do for my neighbors if it was a one time thing - pinch babysitter, keep an eye on their apartment or feed their pets if they were gonna be away, etc. There's a list of things I wouldn't do - be the person on call to do everything either and won't stand constant parties.

As a child, if I had been running around the apartment screaming, I wouldn't have been sitting down for days. If I spoke about a normal voice in public, my mother would have made sure I didn't go out in public for awhile (aka babysitters). Children also have to learn being in public is more of a privilege than a right. Something I do intend to teach my children...being a "child" doesn't mean you have to act like completely irresponsible.

ChrisGal,

I don't see how your disability has anything to do with our "conversation," except perhaps if it forces you to live in a more urban environment with more resources (i.e., public transportation) than you would choose otherwise. And it supports the "takes a village" idea that you claim you don't agree with. If you were our neighbor, my kids and I would go out of our way to help you if you needed anything.

I completely agree with you that no one wants to hear children screaming all day, or to be the victims of ding-dong ditch or vandalism or other undesirable behavior. But sometimes it happens on the journey from childhood to adulthood, despite our best intentions to raise our kids right--they make mistakes in their judgment and are not always aware of the impact of their actions until after the fact.

Also, you are wrong about children having to be supervised at home or outside until they are 12. I have never heard of such a thing. How would kids be able to walk to the bus stop or ride their bikes to friends' houses? At least where I live, most kids have a lot of freedom and are not shadowed by their parents past a relatively young age.

sally305 -- You mentioned older people, invalids, and general people who would need a helping hand, so yes it does fit.

I live mostly suburban I would guess - but the town is set up a little weird and you feel like you are living more urban. I live somewhat close to public transportation but I don't use it. The best thing about where I live is how close I am to shopping and restaurants.

I would never ask my neighbors to take care of me or do something for me unless it was an absolute emergency - pretty much the life or death kind. I would much rather ask family or friends for any favors - basically people who already know my life story and know what to expect if anything goes wrong.

Here's an article on latchkey children (children left alone unsupervised) - http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

Hyper kids piss me off. They pissed me off when I was a kid too. If your kid is running around being noisy in public, I'm the one giving it the side looks and dreaming about kicking the little fucker in the face.

Living next to screaming children is an annoyance that has plagued my entire adult life. As an easy-going, forgiving and understanding person I really feel this is one issue I can't tolerate or pass off with a "that's life" or "cry me a river" attitude. It can and should be controlled by the very people who chose to bring these kids into the world and eventually, into neighborhoods where people are trying to LIVE.

I don't have my own children so right off that would seem to indicate I'm not qualified to pass judgment on kids or parents. While it does make the argument a challenge for me it certainly doesn't mean I lack the power of observation, common sense or the ability to know the difference between proper parenting and normal child behavior. It also doesn't mean I was never a child myself, constantly kept under noise control by a normal mother. "Normal", disciplined children do not scream non-stop at the top of their lungs emitting unceasing, ear-splitting screeches for hours, every day, in the backyard of a home in which a parent is supposedly watching after them! I have been with enough children and parents to know this! It might mean constant vigilance or it might be a bother to quiet them for real vs the occasional, lazy "please keep it down" but if you chose to have children, you choose to take on that responsibility. A parent who allows this regularly, no matter what hour of the day, is simply not doing his or her job.

Someone mentioned children being the "center of the universe" to all parents. I get that - I'm that way with my niece's and nephews. A wise parent notices this attitude in themselves and realizes it doesn't exempt them from properly disciplining their children. In fact a wise parent knows that unrealistic worship of their children might be blinding them, making it hard to see their children as others do. I have witnessed wise parents and well-behaved children my entire life. Short of being deaf I can only harshly judge the parents of screaming children as doing their child a major disservice by not ensuring they have consideration for other people, especially their own neighbors. We live here too and we have a right to NORMAL noise pollution in our surroundings.

If you have kids that play in the backyard (which I too applaud as healthy behavior unless you're simply throwing the disturbance outside for your own benefit) and especially if you have gotten complaints, really listen to their decibel level. Walk down the street or go outside and try to imagine you were the person next door who either works at home during the day (as I do) or works a night shift and has to sleep during the day. If you have any decency you'll do this. If you're truly a considerate person but think it's out of your control, try not saying "please"!!