apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Just clean your place yourself. You'll save money and it's probably also safer. Here in Memphis, there have been a rash of home invasions and in the lastest one the mastermind was - THE CLEANING LADY! She knew everything about the family, the security system, where the good stuff was, when the mother and child would be home alone - she told her thug boyfriend, who stormed the house with three of his croonies - thank G-d the woman and child weren't seriously hurt. If you do get a cleaning lady, I would go with Merry Maids or someother service that sends different people each time, so no one gets to know your pattern. It's better to be a little messy and alive.

Is that a drawing of Amelia Bedelia?? I used to like those books when I was a kid.

Anyway, I have to agree with your mother, unless you have a big house. A two-bedroom apartment should be cleaned by it's owners. And if you have kids, they should be taught how to clean so having a big house AND kids does not equate to the need of a cleaning lady either. My parents have a 6 bedroom, 4 bath house and never once has a cleaning lady stepped over the threshold. We all had chores and the house got cleaned.

I'm almost tempted to call your friends pretentious, but I don't know them... so I won't.

before my cleaning lady's first visit, i was so embarrassed for her to see my neglected home, i started to clean frantically to prove her that i'm not really a pig...now few years later, on and off with cleaning help, i actually think it made me aware of strange pair of eyes looking over and prompted me to be more organised on daily basis, as put stuff where it belongs, wipe up spills and floors....but my Sunday routine does not include any more bathroom scrubbing, floor mopping, stove degreasing....i also so appreciative of someone else cleaning effort, i tip toe to the first two days on freshly mopped floors and pick up all the kitchen crumbs and toothpaste marks ...still do my own laundry.

Ok, I've been on both sides of the fence. That is, I've had a cleaning service, and not. Now, I don't because we bought a house and we're poor. But also, to be honest, no one ever cleaned my house to my satisfaction. All the little details that you always do, no one else cares about. And one thing I was not going to do was play the role of the anal bitch and start ordering around people with a white glove. That did not match up to my liberal political leanings.

So, now I've done two things. 1) Decided that cleaning the house isn't all that important and that I should have a broader view of the world. 2) Try to keep up. Lately I've found that the best way to do this is to have someone over to dinner every other week. Nothing gets me off the couch and actually cleaning better than the thought of someone I like and respect scrutinizing my house. This actually works with my husband too, who has a very very broad view of the world in my opinion.

If you do hire someone though enjoy it! If you're feeling bad about it, you're defeating the whole purpose!

I can't hire a housecleaner. I feel that if I have so much stuff that I can't keep it clean on my own, then I have too much.

But I also hate mopping, moving furniture, dusting, and scrubbing.

So, while I can't hire a housecleaner in good conscience, sometimes I wish I could. So, I understand your predicament, Grace.

Honestly, I think it comes down to how you live and how you want to spend your time.

As a New Yorker with a 9-6 (and often later) job with a 45 minute commute each way and barely enough time to squeeze in necessary errands like buying food and toilet paper, the LAST thing I want to do on a weekend is clean the house. Add to that a not-so-tidy husband who works from a 'home office' in the dining room and who has never washed a dish -- and the mess piles up quickly.

To compensate we hired a cleaning lady to come every other Monday to do the serious cleaning -- scrubbing down the bathroom & kitchen, sweeping, mopping or vacuuming all the floors, cleaning windows & mirrors, and dusting.

Between 'big' cleans I do a 5 minute morning & 5 minute evening tidy up just to make sure we have clean dishes and no dirty socks on the floor.

Somewhere between the two, the house stays in good shape year round and I have my weekends free for much needed relaxation or household projects -- like my January Jumpstart -- that I would never have time for otherwise.

For me, getting a clean house without using up my free time is money very well spent.

I think in a couple or roommate situation a house cleaner would be great. No matter what "agreement" my boyfriend and I try to come up with in regards to who will clean what, I usually end up being the one to do all the cleaning. Maybe are standards are different, or maybe it's because he's mother did everything for him. I let our place get totally messy this week just to prove a point, but now I'm having a friend for dinner and I have to clean:(
I'm sure housekeeper's can be credited with keeping couples together!

whoops, forget one thing: Orangejuice, did your mum work outside of the home? I just don't think you can compare today's families with those of the past. With both people working, when do you find the time to clean a home thoroughly?

I agree with thepeoplescortney--it depends on your situation. Until recently I worked all sorts of hours all the time at my job (often 12-14hr days), and for the few free hours I had it was worth it to pay for someone to come every three weeks to do the deep cleaning (biweekly was just a bit too expensive), with the "tidying up" in between. Having a lot of "stuff" wasn't really the issue for us--it was more the scrubbing of the bathrooms, etc. (where we don't have much stuff other than my shedding hair!), that just took too much time. There is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about saying you need or want a hand--just because you don't do it all the time doesn't mean you don't know how. My free time was worth every penny!

Oy, get over the guilt. If you can afford it, do it. And get him or her to come on Friday... nothing like coming home to a spotless home at the end of a long week.

You are also providing someone else income.

Do the people giving you a hard time about it also disapprove of nannies, personal trainers, laundries, and accountants? All services you could also indeed do yourself...

more power to ya. in a world where more and more people are earning their incomes from freelance work , it simply makes sense to contract out housework if you know you could be working or prefer to use your downtime differently. people today are actually less likely to hire help than in the past and i'm all for it. i grew up in a house where someone came every other week to clean. my parents always felt it was money well spent and new they were giving employment to people who wanted it.

err...yes, people who disapprove of not being able to clean your own home usually also disapprove of not being able to raise your own kids, do your own taxes, and motivate yourself at the gym. it's really a social class and/or money issue, i think. i cannot fathom ever paying someone $100 an hour to stand around and tell me what to do at the gym (that is five freakin' times what i make!!). god gave me a brain and fingers, mankind gave me an internet, i can do the research and figure out a workout plan for myself. but that's because i don't have the money for a trainer. if money were no issue, i probably would feel differently. same for housekeepers. my time is only worth $20/hour...a housekeeper costs two to three times as much. thus, i won't have a housekeeper. and in my indignation about that i'll probably look down on others having one too. ahhh, bias...

I don't really understand why one would (or should) feel guilty about hiring a maid. Hiring someone to clean your home is not the same thing as saying that you're too good to clean your own messes. If you live like a pig and then expect someone to come and clean it up for you, then perhaps you need lessons in civility. But living a normal lifestyle, and appreciating the help of having someone wash your sheets and bleach your bathtub twice a month doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

If your main reason for not hiring a maid is because you feel uncomfortable with the idea of it, as if by hiring someone to do your "dirty" work is taking advantage of someone, just keep in mind that you could be employing that person at a decent rate for work they are willing and wanting to do for you. Providing someone with a reasonable hourly income is not exploitive and does not make you any less liberal.

If everyone has political/philosophical problems with hiring a housekeeper, what will poor immigrant women with limited literacy and English proficiency do? Poor women who need to work odd hours to take care of their kids? Poor women who earn more by being self-employed? Has anyone heard of "economic multiplier effects" whereby folks who have good jobs create all sorts of service jobs?

I'm an executive who has no interest in cleaning and laundry so I'm sure that my housekeeper, who comes every 3 weeks, is happy to do it for what I pay her.

The notion that hiring people to do low skilled work is degrading to them is at variance with positive economic phenomena like "multiplier" effects and seems incredibly elitist to me.

lindsey kathleen--

At least you acknowledge you are indeed looking down on people who can afford to do what you can not. Call us back when your hourly wage increases and you house gets bigger and your time gets more precious. We'll see how you weigh in on the subject then.

You also demean the skill of people like trainers and accountants who have the skill and ability worth paying for.

And I'm not even going to the whole "a nanny = the inability to raise your own kids." Yikes.

Growing up, my mom was a cleaning lady and I used to go with her to clean the houses on weekends. I don't think there's any reason to feel guilty about hiring someone to clean your house provided you're not a total d**che about it. We certainly were happy to be able to make some money in a job that had pretty flexible hours and decent pay. Here were the few things that would really tick us off:

1.) If you're a really sloppy person, be honest about it, and hire someone to come once a week for a few hours instead of a full day once a month. Someone who does a really good, thorough job will appreciate being able to maintain a clean place vs starting all over again every time she comes.

2.) Being generous with your cool (non-alcoholic) beverages is really nice.

3.) You may not notice, because you are sitting/working/not home, but your cleaning lady is quite sweaty and really wishing you would pump up the air conditioner.

4.) Please be as clear as possible concerning the tasks you would like performed, to avoid either party feeling cheated down the road, when certain jobs are added or omitted.

5.) Treat your cleaning person like any worker you'd supervise in an office setting: as a skilled colleague whose hard work is appreciated. A cleaning person is a partner in keeping your home healthy, not "the help".

6.) Don't hire a person long-term if you don't feel comfortable letting her work unsupervised. It's unfair to both parties: you are constantly worrying about the safety of your home/the quality of the work, and the cleaning person will notice this and feel weird/insulted. We *will* get to know you, your home, and the kind of life you live. If this makes you uncomfortable, a cleaning person is not for you. You deserve to hire someone you trust, and we deserve to work for someone who trusts us.

I grew up without a house cleaner, and lived as an adult for about 10 years before hiring one. I have zero guilt about it. I do think it's important to know how to do your own cleaning, and to know what it's like to earn your money as an unskilled laborer, whether that a house cleaner, a construction worker, or a cashier at McDonalds. Builds character and keeps one humble.

I agree with heathermg. Having a cleaning person really can help a relationship. After living with my totally adorable packrat/slob of a husband for a year, I began to seriously resent that most of my weekend was spent cleaning. We agreed to hire someone and now when I come home every second Friday the house looks lovely. I start the weekend happy -- it allows me to tackle the bigger chores (gardening, sewing, redecorating the kids' rooms) that would otherwise get neglected while still feeling like I've had some "down time". If you can manage it financially, why not? p.s. My housecleaner is a wonderful woman who is going for her citizenship next week. Our relationship is one of mutual respect. After all, she's helping me maintain my marriage!
p.p.s. We do not give her the underwear to wash. We do that ourselves. And I don't have her do toilets as it just feels wrong.

JV -

Thanks for the insider p.o.v. When/if I decide to hire someone to help with the housework I'll keep your guidelines in mind.

I completely agree that you should not feel guilty about hiring a cleaning lady, it's just a job to that person, a way to earn a living.
My mom cleaned apartments in order to pay for my private HS tuition and never felt it was beneath her. She was proud to have her clients compliment her on her ability to make their apartments sparkle. Years later, my husband & I have a cleaning lady for our 1bd/1ba apartment (we would simply prefer to spend our free time with each other and not slaving over the tub). We do our own laundry, but everything else is fair game. We pay her well, don't order her around, and treat her as a respected employee and no less. Yes, it's a luxury, but not one that should make anyone feel like a horrible person.

What on earth is there to be guilty about? Your cleaner presumably wants the money from cleaning -- are you somehow a better person for making it more difficult for her or him to make a living? Will we all be better people if housecleaners must seek jobs at McDonald's or Wal-Mart?

The notion that cleaning one's own house is a moral duty for educated women with jobs outside the home is a brand new notion post-WWII, probably developed as a reaction against the growing number of women with professional careers. And it's just silly. No one tells men that they are Bad People for not cleaning their own homes; but women with the same responsibilities are supposed to somehow find the time and energy to find deep meaning in scrubbing and washing.

As far as quality of cleaning -- no, no hired cleaner ever cares all that passionately about every inch of your baseboards. But it's a huge relief to have someone else take care of a couple hours of housework so that you can use your talents where they're best deployed.

Maybe some green cleaning ladies can help you out of your conundrum?

To keep in line with the political correct theme, shouldn't we call them cleaning persons?

Men can clean too, I know my boyfriend puts a lot more elbow grease into cleaning than I do.

if you have the money and it takes away that horrible feeling in your stomach everyone gets when the house is in shambles, I say do it. If you can afford to employ someone and make life a little less stressful for yourself, why not do it?

Okay, here is another side of the fence. I have very bad dust allergies and the ENT was the one who suggested I have someone else do the cleaning. Um, since DH wasn't a good candidate, I tried a service for one winter. Made a big difference in my health. Less sinus infections plus I had more time with DH.

I use mostly green products, plus these Blessed Polish Cleaning ladies are in love with vinegar.

The stove has never looked as shiney. Bathrooms are brilliant. And I don't sniffle as much.

I do pay well. Most of them have family in Poland. I asked and they send items back home. Since then, good clothes I would normally donate I give to them.

I leave them a full pot of coffee each week for a coffee break. They leave my house lovely.

Worth the money for me to be healthy.

"No one tells men that they are Bad People for not cleaning their own homes."
Too bad - I will have to redouble my efforts in letting men know not doing their share of cleaning is absurd.
When men don't do their share our sons and daughters learn, yet again, that home cleaning is women's work, paid or otherwise.

I have a cleaner come in 4 times a year for a deep clean and its $30 an hour.

I like cleaning... it's not so hard, and it's a nice break from working.

To add to what JV said:

Yes, cold drinks and air conditioning make all the difference. Vacuuming in particular can get pretty strenuous and hot.

I would also add that it's nice to provide your own cleaning products.

Obviously I'm biased, but if I were in your situation I would hire a "freelance" cleaning person like a single mom or college student. From what I've read, cleaning services often treat their employees like dirt, and very little of the money you pay to the cleaning company actually gets to the actual cleaning people. But rather than condemning cleaning companies entirely, I guess I'd just encourage you to research a company thoroughly before hiring them. Which I'm sure you were going to do anyway.

I have also been on both sides of the fence. I cleaned corporate offices to support my way for the first couple of years of college. Here were the benefits to me as I saw them:
-I got paid well
-I cleaned on weekends only
-I chose the time of day (or night) when to come in and when to leave.
-I listened to music while I worked.
-I didn't have to please or be nice to anyone, just do a good job cleaning.
-The work was not that hard.
-Mostly I didn't have to clean toilets or bathrooms. (except in one office)

The only downside is that I developed allergies to dust. ;)

Ever since I have owned a home I have hired a cleaning lady to come and clean my home. Mostly because I don't want to spend part of my weekend (4 to 6 hrs) cleaning as opposed to being with my family. I have never had a cleaning lady clean my home as well as I could. And over the years a few things were dropped and broken. But the work that they do is good enough. Over the years I have treated my cleaning ladies as I would want to be treated. I have hired them to do a job, I stay out of their way and am polite in a boss and employee way.
So now every other Friday I come home to a nice, shiny, clean good smelling home and I am happy. I also know that my cleaning lady is happy in a job well done, happy to be well compensated for her work, and happy to do the work that she CHOOSES to do.

I would LOVE to have someone come clean. Honestly, the motivation is just not there for me to clean as well as someone else would clean for me, especially for things like bathrooms, floors, kitchen, etc.

I agree that it is ridiculous to buy into the notion that it is womens' "moral duty" to clean house! BTW I think this actually got started in the 1870s with the domestic hygiene movement and the concurrent Victorian notion of the "angel in the house." Bleah!

That said I find the FlyLady website is saving my sanity . . . yes, it's hokey, with all its talk of "home blessing hours" and so forth (hmm -- Angel in the House, anyone?!?) but the cleaning routines have really helped get our place looking a lot better. I dislike cleaning but on the other hand I get depressed living amidst dirt and disorder; ongoing daily maintenance like the bathroom swish'n'swipe makes the whole cleaning thing much less fraught.

I personally don't mind doing the cleaning part of cleaning (vaccuming, washing floors, bathrooms). I would like to get a cleaning lady because I don't actually do it too often. Why not you ask? Because I have a clutter problem. Is it reprehensible to ask a cleaning lady to pick up my stuff? I don't put it away because I don't know where to put it. Will she?
*sigh*

actually, patrick, i don't think there is any salary in the world that would "allow" me to hire a nanny. absolutely no offense to anyone who had one growing up or employs one now, because it takes all kinds to make the world go round, but in my own personal life, i would view it as a misplacement of my priorities.

nor would i ever move into a house so big i had to hire a housekeeper. another personal credo. i would outsource the housekeeping over my getting pissed that the man in the house never contributes. but he'd have to pay for it! :-P

i still think it's a class issue. sorry to "demean" the trainer, but where i come from/how i grew up it's a point of pride to that you do things yourself. you'd only have an accountant if you owned a business, and a personal trainer would be considered just plumb foolish/selfish/waste of money. maybe it's a country folk vs. city folk thing, where there is a contradiction between being self sufficient and being very specialized. maybe it's a difference between savers and spenders. i don't know. but i don't think that way of life or point of view is any less valid than that of those who pay others to do all the hardwork/chores. so in that view, "Call us back when your hourly wage increases and you house gets bigger and your time gets more precious. We'll see how you weigh in on the subject then." seems kind of condescending to me. despite my forthright admittance of bias up front, it's not always about having the cash.

Funny... I both highly agree and disagree with Lindsey. It's definitely NOT about having the cash. I'm a recent graduate working a really standard paying job. I'm not wealthy by any means but instead of buying often, I tend to spend more on things that matter to me. I don't have cable, I don't have a car or a cell phone. I don't have tons of clothes and what I have I tend to wear for years. I do have a couple pairs of 300$ shoes, spend over 1k$ on a yoga studio each year, and weren't it for my aforementioned issues with my clutter, I would totally have a maid.

I come from a middle class family where both parents had to work. I also happen to have grown up with a live-in nanny. There was no luxury or frivolous spending in my childhood, but the nanny was something my parents thought was important, considering they had to work. More educational than daycare... I was reading and speaking two languages before kindergarten. That doesn't mean my parents we unable to, well, parent. In fact, the nanny became live-out by grade one and was canceled completely when I was 8, and they did just fine. I think of myself and my parents as self-sufficient. My father can build, my mother can fix cars. This doesn't mean they can't pay someone to do it to save themselves the trouble. Other people pay them to do things they can do themselves to save the effort as well (think of paying someone to cook for you when you go to the restaurant, to decorate your house, or to do your nails, or wash your hair at the salon. All of these things we can do ourselves; none of these things are demeaning to those who earn a living doing them. Neither is cleaning someone's house. )

Oh and that dude who told you to wait 'till you made more money... I agree with you; he's condescending; bordering on a jerkish.

"That dude" here.

My point was that perspectives of money, time and service have a way of changing over the years as one's priorities change. Sorry if it came off condescending. But funny, that's how I thought you came across. Well, more judgmental than condescending, but I guess I was reacting to that. And, imho, pre-announcing you are judgmental does not make the following comments any more palatable.

And I only brought up the "make more money" part because your original post very much emphasized your hourly wage realtive to those of the services you pay for. Your second entry made it all less about money than your first one did.

I've never hired a cleaning service except when moving in or out of an apartment, but if I did, I would definitely use this one: http://www.wecandoit.coop.

Check it out if you're in NY (they're Brooklyn-based) - the workers are all owners in the co-op, meaning the money they earn goes straight to them, and they have control over their working conditions. And they're eco-friendly too.

This all has been very interesting and has made me think about my own perceptions of house cleaning much more than I ever wanted to! I'm in the guilt over hiring a cleaning person camp--partially because I'm anal and don't like other people touching my things and partially because I grew up in a blue collar family with very gendered ideas of who does what in the home, so I may have internalized that. I also have problems with people waiting on me in any sense, even if I'm paying them well and/or being kind to them--which I think stems from feeling like by hiring someone to do something my parents did themselves or that some of my family may have been paid to do for others is saying I'm "too good" for my family--a sort of guilt for being more "successful" and worldly than they are...hmmm, see what I mean about making me think a LOT about a LOT more than cleaning?!?

That being said, cleaning my apartment doesn't take much of my time, so i couldn't justify a regular cleaning person in my own mind. I have, however, thought about getting someone on occasion to help with a major cleaning like behind/under the appliances, the inside of the stove/fridge, a good cleaning of all the floors, etc.

On personal training...I thought the same way you did, Lindsey, until someone gave me training sessions. They REALLY helped me, both in varying my workouts and in pushing myself more intensely. I don't have a trainer every day or even every week, but when I do, I have the best workout ever!

Some great insights here from those who have experience as cleaning people, or with parents who cleaned houses.

I hired a woman to clean my apartment when I used to work long hours, and she was amazing. It might not be an official trade, but cleaning is a skill. She could accomplish in an hour or two a level of cleaning that would have taken me half the day.

I find it very interesting that there's a raging debate about the ethics of hiring a cleaning lady. My parents are not American (they're Nigerian) and even in third world countries, the notion of hiring help is quite acceptable. In fact, I will never forget a conversation I had with a woman who had recently arrived from Nigeria. She told me of the difficulties she had encountered doing everything on her own. She had people help her with her kids, with cleaning her house, everything. Some of them were distant relatives, but others were complete strangers. She couldn't believe the burdens that American women place on themselves in the name of running a household and managing a career. And by the way, she wasn't wealthy by any means, and she still relied on such help.

All of this is to say that not only should you not feel guilty for getting the help you feel you need, but also, there needs to be some cultural unpacking of the notions we ascribe to hiring people to help out. I really can't believe the disdain I'm seeing on this board and to me, it takes being in a relative position of privilege (whether time, finances, etc.) to complain about hiring help as much as it does to even consider doing so.

cai-
Definitely. In other countries there's the ethos that it takes a village to raise a child, and that includes domestic helpers that cook, clean and help with childcare. In America, there's this perception that women must be Wonder Woman/Martha Stewart and handle everything themselves while maintaining a career. It's alienating, demoralizing and impossible, and it always sneaks into discussions of whether it's ok to hire help or not.

heathermg--- yes my mom did work outside of the home. She owned and ran two hair salons. And I'm only 30 so this isn't yesteryears we're talking.

I would probably not have someone else do my cleaning, however, I did clean houses on the weekends when my son was young, to make ends meet. Patrick is right, you are providing someone else an income.

The only reason I couldn't do is the same reason I cannot get my nails done by someone else, buy flowers more frequently, take cabs, etc.: I would put that money towards buying more furniture.

If you can afford it, just do it, it will make your life simpler.

I'm not sure if my faceless testimonial will help lessen some of your guilt, Grace, but I hope it does. There is NOTHING wrong with hiring someone to help you clean and organize your house. I am a highly organized person and can honestly say that I clean more thoroughly and better than most people I know. When I have time to do it, I actually find cleaning to be quite therapeutic (and even a good workout!). I did not grow up with a cleaning person and recall telling a friend just a couple of years ago that I would never have one. However, as a career woman with a full-time job in addition to night & weekend freelance work, I recently began to reconsider my position on this. My free time is limited, to say the least, and I have become less and less willing - and even able - to spend my weekends slaving over my bathtub (and because I do a good job, it takes that much longer). I have a two-bedroom apartment that I share with a roommate who scrubs her organic vegetables but not much else, and so this week, I finally decided to hire someone to come in once a month to clean the common areas of the house (bathroom, hall, dining & living rooms, and kitchen). She starts next Monday, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here (although I don't think I am - she was referred to me by two separate people in my building who have been with her for years and who LOVE her), but for $80 a month, it is FULLY worth it to me. My roommate and I will continue to be responsible for our respective bedrooms, laundry, dishwashing, etc. We will provide all of the cleaning products and tools.

As someone who wrote her master's thesis about (among other things) women's evolving role in the domestic space, and having put in some time in the career world, let me just say that this idea or expectation that women can have fulfilling (full-time) careers whilst maintaining their roles as (full-time) household managers is just crazy. Modern women (and men, for that matter!) should stop beating themselves up for not being able to do it all and perfectly. It's okay to ask for help! We work enough as it is, America!

I really don't get why this comes down to a moral issue for some people. Speaking as someone who has never had a cleaning person (and whose mom never did either!), if you want one then hire one, and if you don't, don't. Sure, helping with cleaning teaches kids responsibility, but there are plenty of things they (and you) can do even if you have someone who cleans for you. There are always dishes to be washed and clutter to be picked up. I see a lot of bias in people's assumptions that those who hire house cleaners are lazy or whatever, and that those who clean houses are miserable and repressed. And what's pretentious about choosing for yourself how you spend your time and money?