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I don't know how to advise you, but he probably is being extra careful with her side of it because she's claiming to be handicapped. Thus the 36 inches.

I'd either offer to swap sides of the garage w/ pseudo-handicapped lady so that she can more easily get into her car, etc...

...and if that doesn't work, I'd move.

If there is room for you to actually get your car in while leaving that much distance, I'd just hang a tennis ball from the ceiling that hits your windshield when you come in to the correct spot. This doesn't sound like a battle that is worth your while to fight. Plus, if you are responsive to your landlord on this front, you would probably have more say if there is ever a more problematic issue.

You can always resend the emails to the landlord, with the additional threat of withholding rent until the issues are addressed. If the Landlord is not living up to their end of the lease, then you have grounds for non-payment of monthly rent until the items are addressed.

You should also write to your neighbor, pointing the very issues you have pointed out here. One of the first rules is to look to see if you have directly tried to address the issue with the applicable party (neighbor). If you can prove that, you have even more room to work with.

I would ask, why can't you allow 36 inches in front of the car? If this is just a prideful sticking point, get over it. You don't want to give them any more ammo on you, than they might already have...

The fact that she hasn't singed a lease renewal is actually to her advantage in this situation. It leaves the landlord much less leverage against her, while she (if she is smart) has just as much leverage against them as she would have with a renewed lease. Plus, she probably has all the necessary medical papers to support her disability claims, and the landlords, naturally, don't want to get into legal disputes with a handicapped person, because the law is going to be much more on her side.

If you like your apartment and don't plan to move, I would just try to make peace with the neighbor, try to accommodate her wishes regarding the car position, and just try to be friendly. Good neighborly relations are better for everybody, really. (I recently moved to a NYC coop building, and I see a huge difference in the atmosphere and the condition of the building from a typical NYC rental. Maybe it's just my coop, but still, that's how it is...)

I really don't see any issues worth fighting for in your post.

Do. Not. withhold rent over this. The laws on withholding rent vary based on the state you're in, but in general, they only apply to non-livable situations. Not liking how your neighbor keeps their half of a shared garage is not a non-livable situation. Withholding rent will just get you evicted.

Also, many disabled people can and do walk perfectly fine, so the fact your neighbor can walk doesn't mean she's not disabled.

Why would you expect her to walk all the way around the back of your car when you could just be courteous so she can make a slightly shorter trip around the front?

My husband and I share a garage with our two cars and we'd never pull up so close as to make the other one walk all the way around the cars. That would be thoughtless at best. Or just plain rude once it had been pointed out.

You know, the best thing is to try to get along vs. getting caught up in whether or not she limps, whether her storage is more flammable than yours, whether she has a lease, etc. Does that really affect your life?

My suggestion to improve the situation is to speak to your neighbor and say this (preferably with a sheepish smile and a bottle of wine in hand) - "I'm sorry I was being a jerk. I don't know what got into me. I'll make sure my car is easy to walk around in the future."

Handicaps are not always visible, and its rude/incorrect/offensive/ignorant to assume she's not handicapped just because you "see her walk just fine." It may be that despite appearances, she experiences a great deal of pain while walking. Alternately, many disabled folks have to really conserve their energy - everyday tasks take a lot more effort. So while she may be able to get around the car, its possible that its considerably less taxing for her to just walk in front of it.

Instead of assuming that she's a liar who just wants to make your life difficult, why not take her at her word and park a little further back? Surely it couldn't be all that difficult. You're neighbors...be neighborly. Stopping they cycle of animosity is surely a good step towards repairing the situation.

You might also suggest that you help her clean her crap out of the garage if it bothers you so much. It may be a PITA for you, but if it gets the job done then you've solved your problem.

I'm having a very similar problem- my neighbors are 20 years my senior and have lived in their apartment for the last 10 years. Unfortunately, seniority seems to rule with these landlords. In their minds, the older tenant is a guaranteed check each month... and you're a wild card.

My only advice to you is to be FIRM- I allowed myself to be walked on for 6 miserable months, and I wish I had been more direct with my concerns. Be polite, be considerate, but make sure you're getting your money's worth.

*But allow me to clarify my first comment- the issue with my neighbors is about a real dollars and cents problem, namely how to split the bills fairly.

You need to assess your situation really honestly- are you ticked because she's getting preferential treatment, or is her complaint negatively impacting you? If it's just the bias that's bugging you, you're probably out of luck. If you are going to face a major inconvenience in having to shrink your storage space or move your car- THEN you have a real issue for your landlord. I would suggest quantifying the space that you'll be losing- space is money, and if you're being denied the use what you're paying for in your rent, your landlord needs to provide you with a alternative storage.

Atlanta0jess is right--there are any number of disabilities that are more or less "invisible" much of the time, like lupus, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. "handicapped" does not mean "in a wheelchair." You're possibly being very rude to this woman, and honestly even if she wasn't handicapped, trying not to inconvenience your neighbor unnecessarily is just common courtesy.

I think bepsf said it best.

Offer to switch sides of the garage, as it appears as if she has to walk by your car to get to her car.

If the neighbor is complaining about 36 inches, then I'd recommend to get out your camera, take pictures of the garage, and then show them to the landlord and have them try to guess which side of the garage belongs to which tenant.

I'm surprised no one has commented on the Complaint Dept sign. It's hilarious & I want one.

I have to agree about the parking further back thing, if she doesn't have enough room to get by, she doesn't have enough room to get by regardless of whether or not she is handicapped.
However there is no justification to let her push you around or talk bad about you to the landlord. If she is really harassing you and reporting you to the landlord you might consider sitting down with her, the landlord, and a impartial mediator and see what the underlying issues here really are. In reality it's probably not about the parking spot at all, this is just her way of venting her anger about some other thing bothering her.

I'm not sure how she is handicapped - but being handicapped doesn't always necessarily show up in walking, you know? I'm also disabled and most of the time I walk just fine - it's epilepsy with me. So you should be a little respectful there since reading what you said about her there would tick off some people.

I'd just leave her the 3 feet and grow up. She is entitled to be able to walk in more than a foot of space.

I say try to make peace with the neighbor unless you want to move. I had a similar situation with a neighbor next door who complained every time I turned on my television or stereo. She couldn't hear it exactly (I accompanied her back to her apartment to see if she had a real issue), but she could sense the vibrations from the bass and knew it was on and apparently that distracted her from her writing.
At the same time, I had another neighbor below who would call the police or the landlord with a noise complaint every time I came home from work at night. She could hear me walking around and it woke her up...Apparently she had to go to bed really early for her job. I can't tell you how weird it is to be walking around brushing your teeth or cooking dinner and having the police show up. (Yes, there were carpets and rugs). Anyway...even though the complaints were frivolous at best and the complainers clearly way too noise sensitive to live anywhere other than a soundproof underground bunker, the landlord eventually kicked me out because of the sheer number of complaints, particularly with the police. Point being...if you have a neighbor with the time and propensity to be a serial complainer and you're both paying your rent, it may be easier for the landlord to just get rid of you since he or she would have a file of complaints about you that would allow them to break your lease.

It sounds to me like there is a lot more to this issue just beneath the surface and the deeper issues are manifesting themselves in the issue of the walking space in front of the car. In reading the post, it seems that the big issue is one perceived inequity of treatment between the two tenants by the property management. The posting tenant feels that the other tenant is receiving unfair consideration from the management while their own concerns are being ignored or minimized.

Since it is hard to know what is really going on, I would suggest to the poster to write everything down on a paper letter and snail mail the letter to management with proof of delivery (e.g. return receipt or delivery confiirmation). I would suggest that the letter be cordial, stick to the facts of the matter and provide concrete and reasonable suggested remedies to the problems at hand.

If there is a problem with a neighboring tenant, I am not sure how much can be done to make the relationship more cordial. I would suggest that the poster do whatever s/he can do to improve the relationship, but also to realize that many people simply aren't reasonable. If the dealings with the neighbor can't be improved, then it may be time to move on and find a new place to live if possible. I think to the greatest extent possible, a person should feel at ease and relaxed at home and there seems to be some serious tension in the situation described. Some people are very hard to live near - if it is one of these cases, then a good way to fix the problem is to move away from it.

Your landlord is a coward and your neighbor, disabled or not, is a chronic whiner. Start looking for a new apartment, and make sure they both hear about it. If you don't find a better living situation right away, it may prompt the landlord to try to keep you as a tenant and the neighbor to assume they'll be rid of you soon enough.

Trust me on this, I used to manage apartments and had to deal with some absolutely rotten tenants. (BTW, I had a roommate with an 'invisible' but no less real disability. The obnoxious people in one of the other units raised hell when I assigned her the closest parking space out of consideration for her mobility challenge. It was not a pleasant situation.)

P.S. Mention you're interviewing potential sub-letters. Many landlords get nervous at the very mention of a sub-lease because they would rather deal with a lessee they already know than some stranger. I certainly did.

I agree Scandi...love the sign!

(I believe ADA compliance requires 42" clear so 36" might not be so bad....) personally i would take a tape measure and some masking tape and put tape on the floor delineating 1/2 of the garage and a 36" walkway in front of your car. that way there is never any question about how much room you are taking up.

sharing spaces sucks. especially with someone that seems to feel entitled. if your floor mapping doesn't work then i say move the heck out! who needs that in their life!??!?!!?

I have a nasty neighbor who complains about noise all the time (the noise is me walking on my hardwood floors). You can't please everyone, but you can avoid making a bad situation worse. I don't wear shoes in my apartment so she can't hear me walking. You could give the woman her 36 inches and let life go on!

I'd write the landlord a letter of complaint about the DANGER her stacks of boxes pose to your welfare and your property. If, that is, they do pose a danger.

I'd also check to see if your lease states that you have to leave 36 inches of clearance in the garage. Was this fairly represented to you when you agreed on the payment signed the lease? If not, I'd say the landlord misrepresented what you were paying for.

I like sfbep's solution.

I'd suggest moving.

Just because the woman can walk does not mean she isn't disabled. She could be in incredible pain. You can't really know if you're not her doctor.

Meanwhile, if the landlord is hard to live with, you're better off moving.

q: was your communique(s) to your landlord only a counter-attack of complaints, or strictly a solution-based message, advising what you were willing to do *having researched handicap laws & tenant laws in your area*, requesting a specific action/response in return?

the perspective of most landlords is that they are there to make a wage on their units. no landlord enjoys having to play mediator between tenants, period. most states have stringent laws on accomodating 'handicapped' people, as well; that card will take precedence w/your landlord, no matter how awesome you are or what counter issues you may suddenly have decided to highlight.

my sugg: try to remove all emotion in your assessment of the situation, keep it light. regardless of what anyone else does. if giving up the 36", you can make everything fit, including the car just grin, give the extra inches, move on; in the bigger picture of life, you will not have lost a piece of yourself to her or the landlord. i promise. hanging the tennis ball is a great idea, in this case, then. take a photo of it w/a tape measure visible, date it, and send that to both parties *certified mail*, thereby closing the book. who knows, moving fwd, you may even find your landlord favoring your evolved handling of a pain-in-the-tush sitch. hey, it happens.

once neighbor is appeased for a time, suggesting the space trade could further mitigate the sitch overall, if she's even open to. but by then you'd have to be brave enough to want to talk w/her. ;) take it only as it comes. good luck.

First, in case things accelerate, keep a notebook and record all interactions (phone calls, notes etc) with the landlord and your neighbor. You may never need it, but no memory is perfect. Secondly, give her the 36 inches. How could that harm you? Thirdly, if you are truly concerned about the safety of what she stores( fire? avalanche?), mention it to the landlord. Finally, a month to month tenant doesn't have any more hold on a landlord than he has on her. In most month to month leases, she can leave by giving 30 days notice in writing, and she can be asked to leave in the same manner by the landlord. If you actually smile (whether or not you feel the love) when you speak with her, you will feel better about the interactions. I've also found, when teaching in the inner city, that perfect manners diffuse many situations. Enjoy your day.

Talking about whiner neighbors, I have this neighbor below who would come to me with a noise complaint every time my 5 years old twin boys running and jumping around -with no shoes on- in our marble floor (what d'u expect from those energetic little boys anyway?)
Apparently he's working at home and he said the noise gives him a headache (he complained about the noise in broad day light, mind you)
I think we've compromised the last time he complained, hopefully..

If 5 year old twins lived above me, I'd expect their parents to teach them to have some consideration and to take them out side to play. Why noise is okay in day light is beyond me.

First of all and most important of all, know your rights and responsibilities. Most cities have a department in charge all things that concern renters. Find a website or a publication or a person connected with that department and get the information you need from them.
Because housing is highly regulated, acting on your own impulses and the opinions/advice/experiences of others who might not know your local laws is a recipe for disaster.

I have a 5yo and a 3yo, and I could not imagine having people living beneath us- we wouldn't even look at anything other then a SFH or a ground-level unit. I can barely handle the noise/activity level of my two, so I can't imagine expecting anyone else to tolerate it.

We once had a neighbor who would bang on the wall when our then-8mo baby would LAUGH... now, that is one unreasonable neighbor!

Want to trade neighbor lady problems?

I'll gladly take your garage/ space issue and trade you a throws-landscaping-bricks-through-car-windshields and disconnects-gas-line-from-stove-while-smoking-cigarettes.

Then - make both of you homeowners in the same condo rather than renters... Now, still think you have a problem?

Inaku - I would complain about yours sons too. Since you said she once complained in perfect daylight, let me ask you one question - why in the hell do you have them locked up in the house? If I had two children, just out of consideration, I would get a bottom level apartment or rent a house. Some people like quiet during the day - you have NO idea what their hours are.

Don't imagine that Life is Fair or that renting situations are fair, either.

You should look out for you and not worry about what your neighbor is getting away with. (Maybe that tenent is the landlord's relative or something... you never know.) If she is inpinging on your rights under your lease (as opposed to pissing you off), then complain about those specific infringments. Otherwise, let it go.

Give the woman her 36 inches (whoever said ADA requires 42 inches is right -- minimum wheelchair access...) and the benefit of the doubt. I have severe handicaps that effect my balance. I need a wider walkway than lithe younger people or I tend to fall. Looking at me you might notice a tiny limp, but otherwise nothing noticible, even though I have had 4 orthopedic surgeries, I wear an ankle brace all the time, and I'm in physical therapy. Try to BE a good neighbor even if you don't HAVE one.

And as for kids, I am SO sick and tired of parents inflicting their offspring on everybody else and not even trying to teach them to behave or be considerate of others (including downstairs neighbors, and other diners in restaurants.) Books have been written (I know, I am a librarian) on the narcissism of younger generations who are so spoiled by their parents, never experience failure, never think about anybody else. "Energetic little boys" are like pets -- you make special efforts to not let them a problem to others -- nobody owes you or them the "right" to be annoying. (soapbox off)

Hell "don't run/jump/chase each other in the house" was a rule for me growing up and me and my 2 younger siblings and we lived with nobody below us.

Did you complain because she complained? You know, as payback. Or do you really find her storage habits materially diminish your safety or quality of life?

Life is too short for ego games. It sounds like you live in a small building. It doesn't sound like she plans to go anywhere. If you want a nice, happy life instead of a rapidly escalating series of complaints and confrontations, you should pick your battles. Or move.

Making your landlord confront the handicapped lady is not going to make either of them your friend. It will only make them closer because now they have a common enemy - you. If you truly feel the city would find her storage habits an egregious safety violation, then write a polite, registered letter to the owner, include photographs, give him 30 days to address the problem, and then call the city. They have inspectors who will come out and assess the situation. You may only make enemies and lose the apartment in the end, but at least you can sleep knowing you made the building safer.

The handicapped woman needs 36 inches (and is entitled to it, by law) to get into her car. That means 36 inches from HER side to the "line". It also might mean take the whole parking area, subtract 36 inches and then split the remaining area down the middle.

The landlord is no dummy, he knows how expensive the legalities of the local governmental agency decision will be if they get involved.


I would circumvent the landlord and go to the people with the real answers. Don't go to report them, go to get answers. Do this so you are following the laws and not the whims of your neighbor and landlord. Take your own pictures of the whole area and take them down to the local ADA (american with disabilities act) government agency. And have them answer two questions.

1. If the neighbor is handicap, legally, just where should the dividing line go between the two of parking places.
2. What does the neighbor have to do to prove they are handicap to receive this benefit?



If the neighbor is a scammer, they will be interested. Fraud is a big no-no in this area of the government. And do give the impression of YOU wanting to be a person that respects and obeys the laws in this area of the government.

Good luck.

I know this isn't inaku's thread, but just to point out that I definitely have some clause in my lease that says I'm not allowed to inflict annoyances on my neighbors. For you to excuse your sons' behavior as a problem of the tenant below you, I mean, they're 5, they didn't sign the lease, but you made them and you're annoying your neighbor down below. The neighbor is working. At work. From his home. I don't care for the entitlements that say people who work should be at work and people who stay home during the day are free to make as much noise as they think is appropriate for 5-year-old boys all day long. What did the neighbor expect from 5-year-old boys? It seems too much to expect the person responsible for them to tell them to play outside (or take them), or teach them civilized indoor behavior and awareness and respect for their neighbors, an indoor activity. This is not complicated. If both you and your neighbor are home during the day, don't count on it being above reproach to make as much noise as you please. We had a similar issue in my building, only it was a dog barking all damn day. What do you expect of a dog? For its owners to care for its anxieties when left alone and train it. But those aren't even people. What hope do we have when we expect more from dogs than 5-year-olds?

As for the OP, I think switching sides of the garage would make a big change for everyone involved and nobody should be too messed up about it. Although frauds do occur, some physical impairments aren't visible with the walking. I would call bullshit on someone if their disability was, for example, severe depression and the whole effort of walking around your car made them suicidal or something. I don't want to minimize depression as an illness, but some things that might qualify for SSI do not impair walking or cause physical pain while merely upright. I don't know how deep the garage is, but this is sort of a non-issue. Her side of the garage might be a safety issue, but is it a safety issue to you, or are you just being contentious, because she is complaining about having to walk around your car? If there's a space issue with your storage plus your car, switching spaces with her would surely solve all the problems, except now you'll have to walk around her car, unless you failed to mention you are also disabled, with a limp, so everyone can tell. Moving her stuff over to the other side of the garage seems to pose a slight problem, perhaps the landlord will help her if you won't offer. Otherwise, you will continue to be miserable. I don't know the laws in your state or city, but there's no law you have to be kind or efficient about solving a problem, that's something that you either do or you don't.

"if i had two children, just out of consideration i would.."

oh my goodness. well hOPEfully, the universe will not suddenly toss two children in your lap and force you to chew on your own words a little. btw, good luck finding that perfect dowstairs unit.. out of CONSIDERATION when that happens! yeah, let's just snap our fingers and tell parents how to parent.. off ONE FLIPPIN POST. mAn. (yes, i knOw that parenting is a choice, chances are low the universe would just toss two litte sprites your way.)

(*cringes* promised self would refrain from joining other peoples' squabbles.)

(*groans* reread my 1st post; convicted by my own words.)

clickchick - we think wE have problems. how are you handling or how did (?) you handle the situation? did you involve the police? at least if the problem were structural (eg, univerally faulty plumbling resulting in one unit above another causing sewage floods above/below) HOA's recourse is cut and dry - sue the developer for repairs/equivalent. which yes, did happen. ick.

moonbeam -- Actually renting a downstairs unit is about twice as easy as getting one on the second or third floor since almost no one likes the lack of privacy on a bottom floor. But yes, if I had two very active children, I would move if I was living over someone in an apartment. I won't have to bite my words since I know I will do it if that time comes.

There is very little respect parents teach children today. I'm only 23 and I see differences. If I had run, screamed, jumped up and down, etc in my mom's place growing up, put it this way you wouldn't have found me sitting for a month. I get annoyed even when I go out to eat and you see kids running around the restaurant (tripping the server's, etc) and screaming - if I had done that, I would have been at a babysitter's for the next five times my family ate out.

So yes, I can say for me (and almost everyone I know in my family) we learned how to shut up indoors, how to sit quietly and eat at restaurant, to not stray more than a few aisles from my parents in a store, etc. And I thank my parents for it - I am a civilized human being rather than someone who will wind up an adult and still not get what behavior is expected indoors.

Though you think you have a right as a parent to let your children do whatever, you really don't if you want to live in society. It is your right to teach them some respect and manners before tossing them out into the world.

Chris Gal - for the most part i agree. goes to show, there are degrees of tolerance in this world. point is, you and i have just proven... harsh words.. do not generally build bridges, as your first post *itself* implied, and admonished Tony.

sorry to all (incl'g Chris Gal for having veered off-course here. i think i've learned my lesson).

When our neighbors annoy us, I tend to just call the office and ask them nicely if they can get them to turn down the music or something (though music is usually what it is). They have always asked the neighbors to do what I asked.

I've lived in places where inconsiderate parents took an upstairs apartment - it's no fun to listen to them run around. If only parents today would teach what our parents taught us or what their parents taught them manner-wise.