apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

To knock-off or not to knock-off? that isn't even the question.

When it comes to making purchases in this day-and-age there are a lot of things the we all need to think about... and they are related to the knock-off debate... but much more important.

When any of us make a purchase we should ask ourselves:

Where did this product come from?
What materials were used?
Are the materials environmentally safe?
Who made this product?
Were they paid a living-wage for their labor?
Were precautions taken to ensure that their health was protected while making the product?
Were precautions taken to ensure that the health of the environment and the people living nearby were protected?
Who designed the product?
Were they paid fairly for their creative contribution?
Where is the product sold?
Does the store pay a living-wage to their employees?
Do they have benefits?

These questions are essential. When something is cheaper then it seems it should be corners were cut some place... and though there are many items that are over-priced simply because of the name on them.... there are also many products that are expensive because the makers are committed to producing products that don't do more damage to our already hurting world.

I also understand that people are on budgets. That we all deserve good design... regardless of what your job is. I'm a grad student... who lives on a tight budget, when I started to furnish my first apartment (small, cool midwest finalist Rachel's Grad School Getaway) I asked myself all of those questions. When I couldn't find an item in my budget that was sustainable and well designed I bought used and refinished it myself. Then again, I would rather buy something made of real wood at a thrift store and fix it up then buy something that looks really cool but isn't built to last.

This debate should be about the designers... but it should also be about every single person and place that touches that product before it gets to your home. In order to change the situation our world is it is imperative that we all become conscious consumers... regardless of our budgets.

Rachel D

ohokrachel, I agree. Except it becomes very hard to know the source of each and every item and everything that goes into it.

Some of that info does NOT come to light unless something goes very wrong. Such as the pet food recalls. Then everyone found out that their pet food contained the gluten from one source, and that source had mucked with it adding in melamine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine

Those sources are never mentioned on labels.

Likewise, who makes the screws and nails and metal fittings that go on many furniture parts? I don't know. It doesn't say. How would I know if the screws on my office chair or the staples or the casters were made by a reputable source that wasn't harming people, animals, and the environment? I wouldn't.

And how to things get from point A to point B? Transportation, and what about THOSE people, the ones who transport? Trucks, cargo ships, trains, planes.

And what about all the parts that go into each one of those transportation vehicles? Who makes those? Where are they made? Is there an unethical spark plug in that chain that will not allow me to buy any products?

Lastly, they all depend on some kind of petrol. All the transportation to get things from point A to point B. And that department is full of political corruption.

So my thoughts are not to shrug and say "There's too much to be concerned about to find out everything" but instead to think on a global scale:

"It all matters."

And therefore to focus on companies that I am more comfortable with. Especially if they make a statement about it. Lots of companies don't.

IKEA does:
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea_new/our_responsibility/index.html

DWR does not:
http://www.dwr.com/category/customer service/about dwr.do

Making an effort counts. Because it all matters. Many of the most trendy sites that people talk about do not make an effort to talk about the environment or working conditions or what they doing.

Buying via thrift store, garage sale, Craigslist, at least that helps keep things out of landfill, and gives something a new life, a new purpose.

But there it too much to keep track of. Computer orders were made, phones were used, who made the computers? The phones? Who made the paper that things were printed on? What about the shipping boxes? And tape? And the sticky stuff that goes on the back of shipping labels, who made that, it that environmentally sound?

Ever looked into what goes into dying leather? Yikes. And the whole animal skinning process? Ewww. Too much to think about.

I agree that they shouldn't copy products if they don't have the right to do so (through copyright etc.). It's morally and ethically (and legally) wrong. But then again, the ultimate goal of all companies is to make money, so ethics probably isn't their priority.
My philosophy is if you can't afford the original, don't pretend you do. I can't stand seeing people with fake Vuitton or Chanel stuff. I guess the same should apply to people who have fake Barcelona chairs etc.

Oh... and the biggest problem with fake anything is that it is detrimental to the companies (and the designers) that make the real thing... so yes, you buy a nice piece (an unauthorized copy, by the way) at an affordable price, but you hurt the real designers in the process.

Hasina, I don't think that everyone who purchases a "knock-off" piece is trying to pretend that they own the original or is trying trick people into believing that they do. I think that judgement maybe a little presumputious. Maybe people just enjoy the design but can't afford it. What do you feel about pieces that are inspired by the original but aren't trying to be a perfect clone?

I agree 100% with Rachel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think anyone is harming the original designers... becuase their stuff is priced beyond the reach of the majority.

While I aspire to buy the real deal, and do so when I can, I also own a lot of ikea stuff that looks suspiciously similar to high priced designer items...

It's a nice theory for everyone to course every item they purchase and avoid the 'bad stuff' but it simply isn't feasible... that's a full-time job!

I applaud the designers (like karim rashid, michael graves and others) who purposefully collaborate with mass manufacturers so mere middle-class people like me can buy genuine design items without blowing our budgets...

(As for chanel and anyone else who makes purses and quadruples the price becuase their name is printed on it, I really don't CARE if they get the shaft.... after all, they already gave it to their customers with that junk...)

Price is king in this country. There is no other way to say it. Only a small portion of shoppers really care if their piece is legit.

I agree with rachel et al on the sustainable point....

however I don't think that remaining sustainable means ruling out knock-offs. It's all a matter of doing your own research.

In any case... everyone who buys a knock-off isn't hurting the original designer, that just isn't so. It can be clothes, purses, furniture, electronics... whathaveyou... the majority of the people who buy the knock-off would never have bought the original anyway, because they couldn't afford it. Especially when it comes to furniture... buying the knock-off could amount to hundreds or thousands in savings, which is generally a big deal if you're on a budget.

Saying that everyone who buys a knock-off is hurting the designer by not buying their original is to say that anyone buying an original on Craigslist is ALSO hurting the designer, because they're getting the original, but not paying the designer for it.

oh that pisses me of when a snob like Hasina makes a stupid remark like that, as if everyone that buys a knock-off barcelona chair is simply trying to pretend they're loaded with cash. i suppose only the well-off should be able to appreciate, and enjoy, good design?

Why are certain items higher priced than others? Artistry, materials, workmanship, etc., and the knock-offs are not making new artistry, using cheaper materials and labor.

However! Everything was designed by someone. Why some designers get to specify how well made their furniture is, and some have to compromise and sell a lot of items that are more cheaply made to begin with is a good question. One of the real answers is some things don't need a genius to think up, many are copied on previous designs also, but rather ordinary, really, and altered cosmetically over the course of years. I am in my office now, so I am looking at desks that are imitative of fine furniture, for example, but need only serve a humble purpose. It resembles something a lot nicer than total crap.

But a lot of really great stuff is being mass-manufactured out of standard materials because the designer wasn't in a position to dictate the execution of their designs, and probably a lot of other decisions, and had to produce knock-offs of their own design.

I find it funny that people still consider it "good design" when it is actually a copy.

the7000club.net--

I don't think Hasina was beeing as much of a snob as you accuse.

And she/he certainly wasn't as extreme in tone as were you...

Knock-offs are bad - plain and simple. They hurt design as a process, they hurt the economy, they hurt the reputation of the original designers, and they hurt the end user.

If I had to apply one rule to knock-offs vs. authentic pieces it is this: You get what you pay for. 99% of the time this rule is true.

A friend bought a fake nelson clock from ebay. The picture was exactly the same picture DWR uses - but the clock that arrived was a shitty piece of stamped tin. It was so laughably bad she donated it to the local DWR for them to offer customers as a comparison.

The POS clock came from China, meaning that there was little, if any, attention paid to environmental or humanitarian safety. It contributes to pollution, and to theft of itellectual property - something the US Patent Office estimates cost the US 750,000 jobs, and over 250billion dollars anually. (uspto.gov) (www.stopfakes.gov)

All of these numbers add up to more than the lousy few hundred bucks you save. Are you really saving anything if you're sending American jobs over seas? Or are you contributing to the already crappy economy? Big picture here people!

Your friend was going to buy a clock anyway. Your story about the knockoff is kind of a straw man. At the price point people are choosing knockoffs, they're going to be buying a piece of junk anyway, probably made out of toxic chemical amalgams in China by toddlers in dangerous factories and shipped at great expense to the U.S.

"You get what you pay for." That's a different issue.

my tone wasn't innappropriate in the least. Hasina made an asinine and offensive remark about people who don't have money enough to afford authentic pieces of design