apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Alec: There's a tinge of coastal-biased commentary in your initial post that I think many Angelenos would react to, including myself. Your palm tree comment is akin to making pointed criticism of the prevalence of hotdog carts and taxicabs on New York City streets...elements of the city's signature landscape the locals are protective and proud of.

Perhaps if this sort of reaction is becoming a noticeable pattern ("We never intend to offend, but we seem to do it a lot"), then I think it would be recommended to ponder the possibility that your posts don't seem to reflect the spirit nor the preference of Los Angeles natives. AT-LA does sadly seem to have a habit of reporting about Los Angeles seen thru the prism of NYC eyes, and I believe its fair to say, New Yorkers have a noted history of making their criticisms known about LA heard than vice versa. Sometimes we just get sick of people making Los Angeles a target...we know we're already the city everyone loves to hate, so why add to the chorus?

I hardly think that pointing out LA people "tend to be ruder, and more mean spirited" really endears us to believe you have our best interest at heart.

This is like Biggie and Pac all over again.

Don't like the palm trees in Los Angeles? Spoken like a typical *sshole New Yorker. Why don't you guys just shut down the LA site if you don't like palm trees? Seriously. Don't like palm trees, well there are plenty of other places to live in the world. Oh, and btw, the "omnipresent" palm trees in Los Angeles happen to be Washingtonian Palms. A real angeleno would know that.

Wow, wisechick. Ouch. "Spoken like a typical *sshole New Yorker"? Nice west-coast demeanor you’ve got there. Because we have an opinion that differs from yours it makes us an *sshole? Had the NY site put up a picture of a beautiful snow fall and written, “We don’t love snow but this sure is pretty”, would you have said “if you don’t like snow get the hell out of the east coast”?!

We have been noticing this for a while: New Yorkers get the bum-rap, but Angelenos tend to be ruder, and more mean spirited. Sorry, but we find examples of it every day.

BTY, to us "don’t like" means you don’t like something. "Don’t love" means it's not your favorite. We wrote “don’t love”. We love plenty of things about LA. Palm trees are not one of them, although we do like the pretty flowering vine growing up this one.

That being said, we are sorry that we offended you. We never intend to offend, but we seem to do it a lot. We simply meant to put up a picture of something we thought was pretty. Go figure.

Maybe I'm just a troublemaker, but I keep thinking we should collectively kidnap Alec, take him to tiki bars, teach him to surf, and otherwise do a total immersion experience in Southern California. A red convertible will need to be involved somewhere, as well as a trek through Disney, an afternoon in the older parts of Pasadena, and a visit to a truly divey flea market complete with taco trucks.

(But I could just be transferring some emotions related to my East Coast-born husband's slow adjustment to San Francisco. California is really a different country.)

I've lived in N.Y. and L.A. and you know what: The palm tree comment offends me. It *IS* typical of how New Yorkers love to make little digs about Los Angeles (while most inevitably add: "but I like San Francisco..." because somehow SF has some snob appeal that New Yorkers deem acceptable).

Take your shitty shoebox apartments, your crap weather, your dirty streets, and your oh-so-hip NY 'tude and keep it on the NY site, please. And please consider having the L.A. version edited by a more thoughtful -- and preferably local -- type who might have something valuable to add.

Wende- I adore you! The thought of a mass west coast design kidnapping sounds, well… like a hoot. I’ve never even been to Disney Land. please don’t tell- I’m already in enough trouble as it is.

Now, while it’s true that I am an east coaster, I have lived in LA for almost 10 years. I say we need to stop with the inferiority complex. I think it’s weird to suggest that one has to like everything LA is “known for”. I wouldn’t care if a New Yorker didn’t love the cabs and hotdog carts. Hell, I wouldn’t care if a New Yorker hated central park and the met. Because I’d be confident there would be plenty of other things for that New Yorker to love.

We have plenty to love in LA, too. I blog about stunning, special, unique-to-LA items every day. I hang out at the Melrose Flea Market, I take the scenic route through Griffith Park when ever I can. I walk to the beach, kick off my shoes and stroll the ocean’s edge until the sun sets. I think this town has plenty to love. With or without the palm trees.

-Alec

"I say we need to stop with the inferiority complex."

I don't think any of us Angelenos feel anything remotely close to an inferiority complex. That's why LA doesn't really make an effort to criticize New York or any other city for that matter. For gosh sake, we're the only city with our nationally known chant ("Beat LA! Beat LA!"). Los Angeles has been mostly on the defensive for her whole existence, and we think its hard enough as it is to deflect the dislike/criticizm of our genteel northward sister city, San Francisco, so its understandable people don't want to hear more of the same from within her own city limits. Many of us are just sick and tired of New Yorkers who come here and want it both ways...enjoying all the benefits of our city, yet all the whole while complaining about the things that they want changed, removed, or remade to resemble their beloved home town. "Almost ten years" is great and I hope you enjoy ten more years, but it doesn't really reveal what you know, respect, and cherish about Los Angeles. For someone who says he's one of us, your comments make you out to be more of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Now, if you'd taken some potshots at minimalls, perhaps you would have been met with cheers instead of angry jeers.

Unfortunately, LA's palm trees are fighting the spread of deadly fusarium wilt and also reaching the end cycle of their lives, so unfortunately for most of us who do love our city's palm trees, Los Angeles might be losing all of them in the years to come. So in the end, you might very well get your wish.

Gregory and all,

My initial intention was to show something that I thought was great-looking. Because the first comment was so personal, I felt the need to respond, but I got caught up in the comments.

I’m sorry for my insensitive words and any disrespect. I really just wanted to show the pretty flowering vine on the tree.

-Alec

Hmpf... I'm looking out my huge picture window in Los Feliz and don't see one palm tree on my street.

It's ok Alec. We all make mistakes. ;o)

If you had only used "I" instead of "We" and "many streets" instead of "virtually every street" you might have survived this thread.

I'm a transplant from Miami. 7-1/2 years in LA. What I love most about LA are the hills and nearby mountains, but if it weren't for the palm trees I think I would have gone insane by now. Partly because they're gorgeous, partly because they make me feel at home and partly because they make me dream of far away exotic places. Even if they aren't all native to Calif., the exception being the Washingtonia filifera, they do me a world of good.

On that note, I'm going out tomorrow to buy a planted palm for my new apt. Any ideas on how to arrange an 11.5ftx18ft living room with a huge window on one corner of the long wall and the opposite corner opening up to the dining room? I'm stumped.

Well, nice to see some Angelenos representin’!

Alec, I’m fairly new to the site. Hadn’t noticed that the palm tree post was signed, or I would have addressed you directly. (With the same comment, of course!) As an east coaster (which btw, how easy was that for me to figure out from the palm post?), I’d think you’d have a little tougher skin. Most New Yorkers consider it a point of pride to be called an *sshole.

As far as Angelenos being “ruder and more mean spirited” than New Yorkers. What, we’re supposed to just sit down and take snide comments about our city’s symbol with a smile and a “have a nice day”? On a site with the name LA in it no less?

I think this comment of yours is very telling: “Now, while it’s true that I am an east coaster, I have lived in LA for almost 10 year.” You have described yourself as an east coaster, not an Angeleno. Very telling. Then you go on to say that “we have so much to love about LA.” I have to agree with Gregory, you sound like a wolf in sheep’s clothing there. Thanks but we don’t need a reminder that there is so much to love about LA, We’re Angelenos, remember?

Inferiority complex? Are you *$@#^!*& kidding me? We’re just annoyed of hearing the same old crap from New Yorkers. It’s tiresome. The city is crowded and we don’t really have room for people who don’t absolutely love the place. LA IS palm trees. Saying you don’t love them is pretty much saying you don’t love LA. (And no, they can’t be equated with hot dog carts or yellow cabs.) That’s what’s raised everyone’s hackles. Appreciate the apology, but it wasn’t necessary. And it doesn’t change the fundamental points made by Gregory about the vibe of the site. If you want to draw and hold LA readers, then the site is going to have to truly reflect them.

Gregory, very well put! There’s a NY vibe to the site even though LA is in the name. It’s something that a true Angeleno (native or adopted) can easily pick up on. Why? Because we’ve encountered that sort of attitude from the many New Yorkers who live here and soak up our sun, drive up our beach rents, and steal our parking spaces and yet STILL bitch about the place! I’m not sure if Alec realizes that the site may be turning off LA readers because of this vibe. (I was so annoyed by the palm post that I stopped reading for 3 days. Just checked in tonight out of curiosity to see if any other Angelenos had commented.) In fact, I wonder if this site isn’t being read mostly by the Williamsburg crowd in search of fresh ideas from “the Coast.”

Wende, nice idea. But I was thinking it would be more beneficial if Alec attended a palm sensitivity training course at the Arboretum!

Martha, All I can say is, you’re my kinda girl!

I’d like to take a moment here to say how much I DO love LA’s ubiquitous palms. I live in the smallest, coolest apartment in the whole wide world. Yes it’s got newly redone hardwood floors throughout (even in the kitchen) and original deco tile and 9 foot high ceilings, and huge casement windows on practically every wall. But what sold me on this place was the views of PALM TREES from every single window (and there are lots of windows!) (Raz, you’d love it here. And, belatedly, welcome to LA!) I can take a shower and view palms. I can even enjoy one lone palm reflected on a bathroom mirror when I’m sitting on the can! But the best part is watching the really tall palms that line a nearby boulevard. Taller than my own building, they shimmer every afternoon as if strung with tinsel. As the sun goes down, they become silhouetted against the sunset. WOW! What a view! When we had that really bad windstorm a while back, the palm trees bent bravely in the wind. I feared for them. But they were graceful and survived. It’s hard to understand how someone wouldn’t love them. I mean, what’s not to like?!

He said he was an East Coaster, not necessarily a New Yorker, so enough with the LA vs NYC garbage.

And he didn't say he HATED them.

Dear god, give the man a BREAK.

Pretty flowers on pretty tree. That's all he was saying.

I do not understand the need to slam somebody else just because you don't agree.

wisechick (not so sure the name applies...), had you started your diatribe with your sonnet to palms, instead of attacking your HOST on this site, perhaps you could have swayed him the same way those palms you so dearly love sway in the last storm.

I think Alec has made a humble apology and we should humble and calm ourselves to accept it in good faith. Thank you Alec.

And to go respond to his initial post's intention, I have to agree I too wouldn't mind more palm trees with flowering neckwear myself. They'd be a welcome addition on any street.

patrick: if we want to squash the drama, we can all start with ourselves. I didn't agree with "how" wisechick commented intially, but I think her, myself and other LA folk have fair reason to voice our (and I will refrain from capitalizing) opinions of something we actually care about, including the issue of eastcoast perspective, and in some of our opinion, a bias. Alec and AT may be our host, but the whole "shut up if you don't like it" attitude you seem to be promoting is antithetical to what a "comment board" is. Whether you acknowledge or not, many Angelenos I know have asked me "what's up with the NY/East Coast bias on Apartment Therapy Los Angeles?" and the initial post did seem to hint at that very same notion amongst many of us. You might not see...we did. Difference in opinion. I think we can all calm down and discuss.

Hopefully we can all refrain from calling each other assholes or anything remotely anatomically unbecoming.

Palm trees. That seems like a great thing to get offended over. While you're at it, do you think there might be something else--I don't know, say the embattled Central American immigrants who clean your perfectly appointed homes--to get enraged about?

IT'S A FUCKING TREE.

This site rocks and it's Alec's hard work and excellent aesthetic that allows us to make pretty. Stop being such precious little shits. And by the way, this is a city of mostly transplants so you can stop your absurd "real" Los Angeleno debate.

...well there goes that wishful thinking.

"...embattled Central American immigrants who clean your perfectly appointed homes"

Whoa, Che! The only person who cleans our "(im)perfectly appointed home", actually apartment, is an American citizen, thank you very much (I've got the elbow calluses and dry hands to prove it!). I don't believe the issue of immigrant exploitation is city specific in relevance nor practice, but if you want to take it there, feel free to take us down the road of more urgent topics. Why not discuss global warming or the artificial oil shortage while you're at it? Oh, that's because this thread was initially started by our AT host Alec (whom I don't question works his ass off) and was actually about those very same "FUCKING TREE(s)" (I feel silly for even copying and pasting capitalized shouts), as you eloquently put it.

And I do believe that "precious little shits" might fall under the categorization of anatomically unbecoming, but that's all semantics.

Wasn't it an Angelino who said, "Can't we all just get along?"

As someone who was born in NYC, raised in a place with potentially more palms than LA (Palm Springs, CA), and then lived in NYC again for five wonderful years, I think both landscapes are unique and fabulous.

Can you imagine saying something as retarded as: "We admit we don't love the omnipresent [ICONIC SCENERY] that line virtually every street in the city..." It's an absurdly snooty sentence no matter how you fill in the blank.

gregory--
Where exactly in my post did I call anyone an *sshole?

And I am certainly NOT anti-comment thread (dear god no!) And, sorry, but I did NOT say "shut up if you don't like it."

But *am* I pro-diplomacy, *am* pro "constructive criticism. I *do* understand I am playing in a sandbox someone is working hard to produce but certainly not getting rich from, and I like it because it *used to be* a generally happy place, lacking in cynicism, name-calling, and bitterness.

patrick(too): pardon, the "asshole" remark was not specifically pointed at you, but an overall sentiment regarding the thread. Sorry for the confusion...I could see how my reference may be unclear.

I did believe the "so enough with the LA vs NYC garbage" as a "shut your yapping" comment, but let me backtrack, and comment I realize that was not your intention. A genuine apology, because I completely agree in your hope for a cynicism/name-calling/bitterness free website.

Sincerely,
The Palm Tree Proliferation Front

gregory--
Thanks for taking the time for clarifying. All good.

And for the record, as a Miami native, I loves me some palm trees!

But Miami plam trees are soooooo much better than LA's. KIDDING

It aint a palm tree if it doesn't provide you with coconuts every now and then. Just a reminder from ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS South Florida!

Let's all meet for a drink! At least we know we'd have someone to talk about. The Tik would be perfect with its motif. ;o)

Anyone else notice that Alec has already forgotten this conversation?

I got led back here Googling sofas & thot to check this convo. Why do I always end up hitting this site? Because it's useful, helpful and insightful? Or dare I say, awesome?

Alec, thanks for your hard work even if you are h-u-m-a-n.

I'm giving out free chill pills tonight if anyone wants any.

Hugs all around. ;o)

Whoa. How the hell did I miss this thread when it came up initially? Oh yeah, because it was intended to be about the flowers around a palm tree! And not about civic pride (or shame), regional bias, and name-calling. Though a few interesting points were brought up here (much of it by gregory), the discussion is a tad tagential.

Alec's editorial perspective on AT is just that: one person's perspective. He's never presented his opinions as an absolute truth; and willingly tries to engage all into a conversation. You don't like his editorial slant? Fine, then send him an email and address with him directly. An open thread isn't the most appropriate forum for this--especially if your intention is to maliciously skewer him or the job he's been doing on this site.

It's too bad that the thread degenerated into WWF-styled trash-talking over the past few days. Good to see that the dark cloud has since passed.

The best thing about L.A. is the people that live here. Anyone who moves here is a very fortunate pilgrim.

I live in the Bay Area and love it but I've never understood the NorCal/SoCal thing. I love Los Angeles. My shoulder muscles start to relax and I get to wear my sunglasses and have real Mexican food. okay. okay. there are some good Mexican restuarants in the Bay Area but this wasn't always the case. I love New York, too. Each place is perfect for what it is. I totally "got" Alec's post and read it exactly as he interpreted it. I would never dis' LA, although I'll stand by my right to complain about something I don't like wherever I am. OK, Wende, I'm ready to kidnap Alec, too. Just let me know when you score the red Cadillac. I'll bring the sunscreen.

I am a 3rd generation Los Angeles native.

People who get offended by a innocent comment about palm tress, amazing.

Los Angeles has become a rude city. Plus the traffic has progressed to pure hell.

My maid is of Austrian/Navaho origins, a native and a friend of mine. I am my daily maid.

I happen to dislike cactus, birds of paradise, and Jupiters Beards. I like the rain.

I suppose I should be sued? Tar and feathered? Taxed?