apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I'll bet its Made in China...

Nice looking. Is it leather or vinyl?

Looks cool, can you retrofit those legs to have casters? Doesnt look like it. Me gotta roll.

I love the look of this chair, but if the quality suffers, I'm not sure it's worth it. Does anybody have it?

T8
www.strangeclosets.com
When design takes priority, the result is often strange closets.

oh, don't get me started on Target's knock-offs!

http://blueantstudio.blogspot.com/2008/05/target-vs-designers-shame-less-v22-23.html

-joel

I like the look of it, but am always reluctant to buy a desk chair I haven't tried out first. I wish they had a sample in the store to sit on...

I wonder what AT's coveted advertisers will think now that knock-offs are being promoted here. Personally I consider making and buying knock-offs as a form of theft. Encouraging people to buy them falls just short of that.

Wow. It must be nice to have enough money to buy the more expensive item all the time.

If people have properly protected their designs, then they can sue Target for IP infringement. If they haven't, then that was their bad choice, and I'm happy (as a consumer) to have the choices.

To me purchasing something like this is not only a slap in the face to the origional desiginer and lisenced manufactuer, but it's a waste of money. Some day you will buy the real one, probably after this one falls apart, and the money you spent on this poorly made immitation will be wasted. you should save your money and only buy one office chair and have it for life!

I tend to by the authentic thing -- for a few reasons -- 1) I like the original 2) they tend to have better resale value -- I tend to buy items at great prices.

But I don't have a problem with knockoffs that do not infringe on a logo. Most "designs" are in one way or another a knockoff of someone else's design and definitely has elements borrowed from other sources. If your interior designer or architect designs an apartment a certain way does that mean others cannot do it in the same way?

In this case, Target does not even market these as Eames replicas. It's just a similar look. I'm glad that people can buy a similar look for a lot cheaper.

There is a difference between being inspired by sometning and exactly replicating it. A good idea is a good idea, and once it enters the public domain it is free game to a degree. The manufacturer and Target are hoping that some one notices this chair from a movie or a tv show and decides to buy it because it has a big yellow tag on it. The buyer wont even know the history behind the great design and the designer who brought it to the world. All they know is that it is on sale at Target. If great modern classic designs are dumbed down for the masses the real pieces will loose their identity and the poor quality of the fakes out there will ruin the reputation of the authentic ones. I hate to see this happen!

I had an "office" looking office chair for about $100 give or take, that is broken (taking it downstairs is on my list of things to do!) after a couple years. It still works sort of, and I'm sitting in another chair that's not as comfortable, which should be elsewhere, it's not a desk chair at all.

What I really want to replace it is what I want. Office chairs you can buy everywhere tend to be awful, and I don't have an office at home, so I want it to look nice enough where it goes. I want it to appeal to me, I would like to find the right vintage specimen at a location and price point for pick up. Something new that's going to be expensive to get with style and interest and authenticity besides also appeals to me, because I want something well-made and made for sitting and not just for looking at.

Somewhere in between my ugly chair and that fancy expensive chair is another chair, a cheap chair that's good enough and looks pretty. What is wrong with it? People need to sit, they cannot wait around until they can afford to sit. People can't afford it, so they have to buy the ugly chair?

example: http://www.ofo-inc.com/sc_images/products/369_image.jpg

pcraine,

As I said, I am generally (in fact always) the buyer of authentic or licensed products. However, I don't begrudge the people who buy the knock offs b/c A) they don't know better B) that's all they can afford C) the Knockoff looks nicer than the the comparable $250 chair. It's amazing the crap that is sold out there at that price range.

I just feel that it makes sense for this market to exist -- these cool looks should not just be available to those who can afford it. Those who can afford will have a higher quality "original". Honestly, what is wrong with that?

NOw if Target put a Herman Miller Seal on the item or wahtever -- then that would be absolutely wrong. IMO

"dumbed down for the masses"?

So you're saying that anyone who can't afford the original can't appreciate good design, and furthermore, can't tell the difference? That's quite an elitist statement.

I can certainly tell originals from copies, but I also don't want to sit on the floor until I can afford the real thing. Until then, I'll buy something I know to be a knock-off, but which still echoes some of the look of the original. It won't be quite as pleasing, no - but that's okay.

And some "knock-off" products - maybe not this one, I don't know - are actually better made than the originals. Sometimes, you really are paying more just for a name. And that's silly.

Yes! You've got it. Wait and buy the nice chair. Just imagine if we all saved all of the money from all the cheep and ugly compromises that we have made and bought one or two really fabulous authentic pieces we could enjoy for a life time!

pcraine - not all people can afford to buy the real thing, even when the imitation one breaks. $275 is already a lot of money to many people. What are people supposed to do that cannot afford the real things, but want a similar look? The need for nicely designed things exist for poor people too. I don't see a problem with buying a product like this, especially since it's not being promoted as a knock-off by Target.

Sometimes people on here act like everyone can just go out and buy whatever they want, whenever they want and that is just not the case. Great for you if you can afford to drop a grand on a chair, but maybe if you lowered your nose out of the air, you'd realize that that's not a reality for most people.

I am not trying to be snooty. Really,I am not. I think that people can get great looking things for a great price. CB2 and Ikea are great at this. I just hate to see a classic peice peing ripped off. I think it is like buying a fake Prada bag on Canal St. I just dont get the point. design without qulity is not good design. It is possible to get something that looks good and is priced well and is not a knock off all at the same time.

I find it hilauious that when you go to the target web site and search eames you see that they sell books and dvds the designers.

I always thought that fun and interesting interior design contained elements of both hi and lo. I agree that sometimes (when the planets align) it's great to buy a good piece of furniture that will last you forever but I must say I am really surprised by some of the comments on this board in regard to the Target shopper's lack of taste in comparison to their own cultural knowledge and expertise. There's clearly evidence of a strong class divide that's being played out on this message board.

Wow, I did not expect this kind of backlash when I submitted this find.

I simply thought it was a good looking chair at a reasonable price and thought I would share it. This is not a direct "knockoff", merely a good looking chair inspired by the original Eames design.

I agree with the others. Should I by ugly chairs until I can afford 2000.00 for an office chair. What makes a desk chair worth 2000.00 anyway?

alex

I think brenjay got it 100% correct. Plus... it's a chair. Take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture.

I also don't think that everything at Target is cheap and of bad quality. It's not the best made stuff out there, but if it's something you like, go for it

Is there a coupon code required for that 15% off of $150? I am not going to get this chair, but you reminded me of something else i've been meaning to pick up. But yeah, I can't find the coupon code anywhere.

Thanks

I've had someone break my Herman Miller office chair by leaning back too far one day. I'd bought it secondhand from a consignment store, and Herman Miller wouldn't do anything in terms of a warranty or replacement parts. So much for spending the money to buy a piece of furniture that would 'last forever.'

Unfortunately, I don't think you DO get what you pay for anymore--at least not necessarily. I don't think price is any guarantee of quality. And often you can luck out and get something enduring inexpensively.

As someone who actually builds furniture, I'm appalled by the prices that stores like Design Within Reach charge for even the most simple, easily manufactured items. R&D? Unless the designer invented sheep from scratch, there's absolutely no reason to charge $3000 for a wool ottoman.

I just got the "real" version of this chair for $200 on craigslist, so there are deals to be had with a little scrounging.

Hey guys - I have done some research. These chairs target sells are made by "Zuo Modern." They actually have TONS of Eames ripoffs, including the one above WITH casters, available for $249 in various colors. Just search "Zuo Modern" or check out this link: http://www.treomodern.com/Director-Office-Chair-Low-Back-4-Colors-Available-p-313.html

As for the debate on real/fake/"inspired" designs... I just graduated university last year and work an entry level job. It will be awhile before I can afford a $3000 chair. However, I appreciate good design... so, whats a guy to do? I could spend $200 on an eames replica, or spend $200 on an ugly blue standard-order task chair that looks like the one in my cubicle at my engineering office. Anyone who suggests the latter is silly.

Is elitism cool?

they only thing tackier than selling a knock-off is buying one knowing it. Those who appreciate good design should appreciate the intellectual property that went into the design. Besides, most knock-offs are altered just enough to destroy the elegance that made them classics in the first place.

There are a lot of other well designed chairs out there for people on a budget -- if you truly appreciate good design some leg work and support the next wave of designers.

Since i sent this find in I have enjoyed reading the debate over the ethics of buying a "knock off" piece of furniture.

I am a commercial photographer by trade and am constantly fighting for usage rights and copyright infringement....so I get it.

If i could afford the "classics", maybe I would buy the real thing or maybe I would use the money for something else I deemed more important at the time. Until then, as someone who appreciates the aesthetics of these designs, I will continue to buy what I can afford.

It seems to me (and I am sure I am not the only one) that any modern or "high" design item I see, costs more than my car. Why? High end design doesn't have to be expensive. I have done what I think (as does ikea hacker and apt la) amazing things with items i have found in the as is section at ikea.

If Eames had never designed that chair and instead it was just a new item at target...would it be any less attractive??

All I wanted to do was to let people know about this cool looking chair that isn't like the standard crap you see at office max and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

In the end it is all about what is important to you, the buyer. I spend 9000.00 on a camera body but buy 200.00 chairs from target and build things out of bits form the as is section at ikea. Logical? To me it is but maybe not to you.

If it makes you happy, whether real or not, isn't that all that matters.

Thanks,

alex

I doubt that the "save your pennies for three years and spring for that chair" demographic ever made up a huge part of the market for Eames furniture. Buy your knockoffs and fear not--there will always be enough people buying security and self-importance along with their furniture to keep the estates of long-dead artists flush.

News flash: the "authorized" Eames products you're buying aren't originals and you're notsupporting any artist anywhere. If you want to buy authorized products because they look or last or resell better, go for it. But quit throwing guilt on other "lesser" people so you can feel good about the labels you acquired during your aspirational furniture shopping.

*That's* tacky.

Here is a good way to look at it from the photographers viewpoint. What if I started making coppies of your photos and selling them for 10 times cheeper than you do. That is what is happening here. Would you be fine with that? I guess you would say that the people that want origional artwork are rich pigs and that the person making the coppies avalible to a wider audience should be applauded. It is not about money it is all about authenticity, quality, and originality.

Does the saying "Nothing new under the sun" apply here? Sure people are wrong for exactly copying someone's design, but now things can't be similar (and heavens forbid affordable for the "masses"?)

I think the original point of the post was completely lost for two reasons, A.) The use of a designer name in the title (forgive the poor writer for trying to give a frame of reference) and B.) The dumbing down comment.

I've been checking this site everyday since I stumbled across it a few months ago and besides some great tips that I've attempted in my own home (so much so that by boyfriend yells Apartment Therapy at me in stores), I've noticed that I clearly am in the "lower" class of those who reside here.

I appreciate the beautiful things I see here, but I know they are most times way out of my league, so I find the same ideas within my means that look as good as what I see here. What is the crime in that? I don't buy fake designer handbags, but best believe if I see one that has similar elements and is clearly not a "knockoff" with a few changed letters or reversed designs, I'm entitled to have that same beauty at a price I can afford.

In a time when people are feeling so low and so overwhelmed by the cost of living, why should they be made to feel bad for wanting to have nice things in their homes that they can afford. What is the alternative? Save months on end for a chair or buy something they like and enjoy it regardless of being looked down upon.

It really strikes a nerve because I think people here all want beautiful homes regardless of their ability to shell out thousands.

One man's original chair is another man's mortgage.

pcraine --

So you're saying I'm not allowed to take a picture a picture of a cactus because Ansel Adams already did it? It's not a fake chair, it's a real chair. Let my people sit!

There are plenty of lovely alternatives that are NOT knockoffs.

I just find it funny that the owner has a tricked out computer set up including Harmon/Kardon sound and is buying furniture at Target.

I guess everyone's priorities are different.

and amiramuse--
This chair is beyond "similar".

And if anyone *truly* values good design, you should be able to appreciate the subtleties of how a knock-off *usually* misses the boat on the details.

That still doesn't address the fact that people can not afford the original. What do yo suggest people do? I also think that there is the assumption that people who can not afford the original are lacking in taste or knowledge. That is really what I want to know.

When you can't afford a Mercedes Benz, what do you drive?

But I was not implying the lack of taste/judgement angle at all.

Knockoff == cheaper reproduction

Licensed product == yuppie reproduction

The yuppie repro may or may not be higher quality. My "original" Blue Dot stuff is mostly horribly sub-par in quality, but I have never seen a cheaper copy of my yuppie repro Arco lamp that's anywhere near as nice. My made-in-China LCWs don't look or feel any different than the original I own (except that original is more beaten up). An unauthorized "knockoff" Eames shell chair from Modernica uses the original molds. The made in China version doesn't, but then again neither does the licensed product at Herman Miller.

All this middle-class guilt and judgment about what label is stuck to the bottom of a reproduction office chair that was designed by a long-dead person decades ago is just sad.

You look at the quality and significance (to you) of the individual products, and you consider what you can afford, and you buy accordingly. Whether you want and can afford to buy originals, or need to economize and buy yuppie licensed reproductions, or need to economize further and buy unlicensed stuff, I say make your home beautiful and comfortable to you and don't mind the haters trying to tell you buying stuff without labels steals not only your soul but the food out of starving artist's mouths.

You'd make a much more convincing case if you used the word yuppie a lot less.

I have a self-deprecating sense of humor and own what I am.

But I should have anticipated your sensitivity to labels.

I'd be more willing to take design advice if the guy had done something with all those cables. It looks like a snake farm.

I doubt that the "save your pennies for three years and spring for that chair" demographic ever made up a huge part of the market for Eames furniture. Buy your knockoffs and fear not--there will always be enough people buying security and self-importance along with their furniture to keep the estates of long-dead artists flush.

News flash: the "authorized" Eames products you're buying aren't originals and you're not supporting any artist anywhere. If you want to buy authorized products because they look or last or resell better, go for it. But quit throwing guilt on other "lesser" people so you can feel good about the labels you acquired during your aspirational furniture shopping.

*That's* tacky.

Well said, elvedon.

Whoa, and I was thinking I can't even afford $200! I guess this might not be the site for me. Considering how bad everyone I know is doing in this recession, I would think there might be some value shoppers around. I suppose all the money draining from the economy is going somewhere: Apartment Therapy readers who can afford to spend $1000 dollars on an office chair.

If you do not know the difference between a lisenced reproduction and a cheep knock off you are hopeless.

"When you can't afford a Mercedes Benz, what do you drive?"

Erm, poor example. When you buy an extremely expensive car, yes, you are paying an awful lot for the "design" of the car, but you are also paying for a powerful engine, lots of extra features, and extremely expensive, precisely machined high quality parts.
When you buy, say, a licensed Barcelona chair, you are paying for plywood, foam, leather, and steel. When you buy an unlicensed Barcelona chair, you are paying for plywood, foam, leather, and steel, in precisely the same configuration. You can use nicer leather, nicer foam, and nicer steel in your authentic piece, but these upgrades don't really account for the roughly 400% markup between an unlicensed reproduction and a licensed reproduction, and many reproductions actually use the same if not BETTER materials and BETTER construction techniques at the lower price (some of these designs are 80 years old - keep in mind, technology has advanced). More often than not, you are paying for a name.
However, Reich and van der Rohe are long dead. TODAY, the only difference between an "authentic" Knoll barcelona chair and a high quality unlicensed reproduction is a legal agreement that lets Knoll stamp the bottom of their chairs and prevents others from doing so. If that's important to you and you've got the cash, go for that licensed chair. Others are fine just paying for the design and function of the chair, and I don't think it's anyone's business to judge them for it or maintain that "real" designed furniture is only for those who can front unreasonable amounts of cash.

My question was in response to "When you can't afford something expensive what is the alternative?" so I stand by my Mercedes comparison. But I get your point.

I just don't understand, with all of Target's resources, why they chose to mimic another design.

But I do agree the Eames (and many Mid-C Modern designers) issues are clouded by lapses in licensing, death and factory ownership issues.

Unfortunately, I think Target is still in the gutter when it comes to their original, designed items. It'd be wise for them to invest in a larger in-house design team, rather than contract out "names" like Michael Graves (who in my opinion makes some of the most hideous and impractical wares I've ever seen).
While a lot of stuff at Ikea is of poor quality, they have many amazing original designs that would become new classics were they not brushed aside as being too accessable to the supposedly less design saavy masses.

Saying Target is in the gutter when it comes to design is just not right (imho).

And I don't ever brush aside Ikea, btw. Loves me some Ikea.

"Hopeless"? Uh...without hope of exactly what?

Whoa, pcraine, I'd love to see what you would write if you were trying to be snooty. You know, since you are not.

I don't think people that would buy this chair knowing where the design comes from have to be hopeless. I reckon they'd be moneyless though.

WOW. I cannot believe the amount to disgust and disdain for the people who buy knock-offs. GET OVER YOURSELVES. Do you not remember what it was like to be a poor college student? Do you not remember the days when you had to survive on 30K a year? I'm sure if everyone had the means, they'd be buying originals. But in the mean time they have to make do with what they have.

And if you're buying for the resale value, why buy an original at all, all you're doing is trying to profit off the hype. Now that I am able, I invest money in things with the intent that it's the last sofa/chair/dining table I will have to buy ever, not because I'm hoping for product value appreciation.

We are talking about furniture here. I would rather buy a knock off at 25% and donate the other 75% to charity than buy an original to impress my friends. How about a little perspective? I'm sure that even those in the designing business would concede to that.

I buy what I like and what I want AND what I can afford. If it's a knockoff, I didn't buy it because it's a knockoff. I bought it because I like it. I pay some attention to quality of workmanship since I don't appreciate something falling apart after only a few months. I suppose the high prices of designers reflects the fact that there are far fewer of them produced for sale so they can't "make it up in volume." Then there are the designers who deliberately price their wares in the stratosphere for one reason or another. Is an "original" or "authorized" piece of better workmanship? Sometimes. The real basis for the knockoff-haters is 1) does it take money away from the "rightful owner" of the design and 2) whether it "cheapens" the design in some way by "flooding the market", if you will, with perhaps lesser-quality goods that copy the original. We should judge each case individually.

angelabaca--

You make it sound like there are only two categories: Originals and knock-offs. Not so.

And I'm a bad example for your "college days" example. I bought a Tizio lamp and a Philippe Starck Costes chair in Senior year with tip money I made checking coats at a gay bar in Providence Rhode Island. :)

And so how much have you donated to charity so far with all your savings???

I also find this category of topic funny when people are:
drinking imported beer when they could be buying domestic for less... when people are drinking Starbucks (even in college, angelabaca) when they could be buying Dunkin Donuts coffee for less... it's all a matter of personal priority...

But I digress.

I also think there is a "mental sustainability" issue here with knock-offs... I think if you knowingly "buy cheap repro" you are less apt to consider the piece something to take care of and hold onto, and chances are good that piece is going to make it to the curb faster than a piece you saved for (knock off or otherwise) and cherish, for whatever reason. I think knock-offs add to the "disposable" mentality that is frequently under fire here.

And btw, I have indeed spec'd a knock-off Eames chair for a client who needed six. But the one I'm sitting on at home is an original.

And if you are looking for Eames knock-offs, also try Chiasso and White on White.

See, I'm as conflicted as the rest when it comes to the subject. So I agree with kuroneko... case by case.

But I still basically "sell ideas" so it is a tricky topic all around for me.

I think this whole debate is ridiculous... I like the chair and I'm going to buy it! People, pay attention to what is happening to this world... You are waisting your time. I'm surprised to see the tone of some of the posts here. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, all the sides may have a valid point, but for now, all what I care is that I like a chair and it fits in my studio and in my budget. And thanks Alex for the tip!
And yes, I have good taste but not a big budget. I do buy originals, but sometimes I buy replicas, and I don't care if it's a single time or all the time. I'm not ashamed of doing it or going either way... I do charity and I'm a decent human being. I'm an architect and an interior designer... Licensed... and I see people pretending to be architects and interior designers all the time... If I want my things to sell, I better be more competitive or recession will continue doing what is already doing to this country. Hey, though world, but it's the one world were we all are living now. Live and let live.... And it's a beautiful world! May you all have a wonderful day!!!

Sneetches.

I honestly can't believe that this one post could cause such an explosive debate! As a former college debate team member, I really enjoy appreciate opposing viewpoints. I do think that we do need to try to not invest so much emotion and distress over a single chair, especially with what is going on in the world around us.

As for my particular take on this debate, I think that art should be accessible to everyone. I think that the comparison between this chair and knock-offs found at street markets is a bit of a stretch. I do however, highly disagree with an item claiming to be something it isn't. I do applaud Herman Miller as a company being recognized for steps towards environmentally minded product production. I think that is important.

I think that we all need to acknowledge that in the world we live in today we must constantly prioritize what matters most and try to make the decisions that come as close as possible to our values. Lets give some room for people on a tight budget trying to balance how they spend their limited income.

Last year the doctor told me to stop working because I had a potentially deadly heart problem. I stopped working and lived off of $7,000 in San Diego, without financial support from family or the government. I donated 10% of my income to the church, purchased local organics, and waited to buy things used on craigslist that I could possibly make nicer. Sometimes, however you can't wait for the perfect low-cost alternative and feel like having something you can appreciate in your low-income situation and you buy something beautiful from target. Yes, I could save for the nicer, better item, but maybe I'm already trying to do that with so many things a young person needs when starting their first home. Please, if you can afford it, make all the better choices but don't judge those trying to get by and enjoy style/art.

First off, there are benefits to buying the "real thing" and benefits to having "inspired by" copies available. Copies can allow you try out a look or style without making the prohibitive investment in the real thing. If it turns out that midcentury modern really isn't your thing over the long term, you are out hundreds of dollars instead of 10's of thousands. If it turns out that you couldn't live without your midcentury modern furnishings, there is nothing preventing you from upgrading to the real thing.

There is, however, a crazy notion that was floated that the world would be a better place if we all only bought the real thing. That is a complete fabrication. Most of the companies dealing in the real thing are marketing "mass consumer rarities" - that is to say, they DON'T want everyone owning one. They sell factory manufactured "specialness." If everyone started showing up with $7000 for a B&B Italia bed, B&B Italia would take that as a sign that they were priced too low and would raise the price to equalize demand and maximize profit.

Knock offs serve as a pressure valve, keeping the price of the real thing from completely shooting through the roof.

To knock-off or not to knock-off? that isn't even the question.

When it comes to making purchases in this day-and-age there are a lot of things the we all need to think about... and they are related to the knock-off debate... but much more important.

When any of us make a purchase we should ask ourselves:

Where did this product come from?
What materials were used?
Are the materials environmentally safe?
Who made this product?
Were they paid a living-wage for their labor?
Were precautions taken to ensure that their health was protected while making the product?
Were precautions taken to ensure that the health of the environment and the people living nearby were protected?
Who designed the product?
Were they paid fairly for their creative contribution?
Where is the product sold?
Does the store pay a living-wage to their employees?
Do they have benefits?

These questions are essential. When something is cheaper then it seems it should be corners were cut some place... and though there are many items that are over-priced simply because of the name on them.... there are also many products that are expensive because the makers are committed to producing products that don't do more damage to our already hurting world.

I also understand that people are on budgets. That we all deserve good design... regardless of what your job is. I'm a grad student... who lives on a tight budget, when I started to furnish my first apartment (small, cool midwest finalist Rachel's Grad School Getaway) I asked myself all of those questions. When I couldn't find an item in my budget that was sustainable and well designed I bought used and refinished it myself. Then again, I would rather buy something made of real wood at a thrift store and fix it up then buy something that looks really cool but isn't built to last.

This debate should be about the designers... but it should also be about every single person and place that touches that product before it gets to your home. In order to change the situation our world is it is imperative that we all become conscious consumers... regardless of our budgets.

Rachel D

Alex, Enjoy and hive five your wallet. It is a nice find. Target or not.

If you drink Pepsi you should be ashamed...Coke is the original. Everything else is a knock-off.

"If you do not know the difference between a lisenced reproduction and a cheep knock off you are hopeless.
posted by pcraine on 2008-05-09 07:33:29"

It's licensed and cheap, not "lisenced" and "cheep". Methinks you ought to study basic typing and grammar skills rather than reading so much about chair designers.

Perhaps people who live in glass houses, albeit, a FLW house, should not throw stones.

Patrick, I was obviously speaking of those who are actually struggling to survive in college, not those who have to "survive" on a small starbucks coffee rather than a large latte every day.

What is the quality like? If poor, I would just choose to do without until I found a used or better quality new chair.

Maybe the concern is that people won't know that you didn't spend the big bucks on the "Original" and their status as "those who know" will be diluted.

Maybe they realize that an original chair (not a chair made today by someone licensed by the original designer's estate) would not have such nice white upholstery and shiny chrome and they are jealous.

Maybe they realize that they sat on another chair before they bought their "real Eames" and that someday their taste will change and this expensive chair will be very cheap on CraigsList or eBay.

This whole site deals mostly in shooting people down for not having the freshest new design sense and scolding people for not getting rid of last year's look. Eventually, that Eames chair is going to be last year's look (sooner than you think) and it won't be that difficult to pass on to someone else. You won't need to recoup that much money to get your dollars per use out of it.

Sure they're classics, but they still go out of fashion. No one had these in their homes the '80's or most of the 90's. That will be true again. If you love something keep it, buy what you can afford, and let your taste dictate not the whim of people whose job it is to create desire for new to move products or services.

This whole site deals mostly in shooting people down for not having the freshest new design sense and scolding people for not getting rid of last year's look.

To me, this site is more about applauding ingenuity and creative problem-solving, whether that "problem" is limited square footage, a tough space, or a limited budget. As much as I might drool over expensively-decorated spaces, I'm much more impressed to see evidence of people's cleverness and talent in their efforts.

Some years ago, I bought two Series 7 knock-off chairs, because I love the form but didn't think I'd ever be able to afford the real thing. Some time later, I bought four originals for the same price as four knock-offs would cost me. Sure, that took patience, hunting and luck, but that's satisfying.

If I were to ever decide to sell the originals, I'm sure I'd at least get my money back. If I were to sell the used knock-offs, I'd get less than what I'd paid [which would be worthwhile, as I've gotten years of use from them]. Of course, I can't imagine parting with the originals, but I will unload the knock-offs once I acquire two more originals.

If great modern classic designs are dumbed down for the masses the real pieces will loose their identity and the poor quality of the fakes out there will ruin the reputation of the authentic ones.

That's kind of funny considering, at least from my understanding of Eames design, a lot of that furniture was made so that good design was accessible to the masses. Just take a look at the lounge chair ottoman which was made so that it could be easily mass produced.

Get off your high horses people.

If you work as a creative professional, you've probably encountered a situation where your work has been ripped off, or you were bothered by the extent to which someone was "inspired by" something you've done, or you feel that you didn't receive a fair credit for your work. It's sort of the price of being in a creative field [and the issues are often murky] but, if you notice it, why would you perpetuate it?

For instance, in my Series 7 example above, I recognized the knock-offs although the verbage didn't link the design with Jacobsen. Still, I knew what I was choosing to purchase, and I did it because I wanted the Jacobsens but couldn't afford the real deal. That's wrong because I myself value the original contributions I make, so I should show the same respect in my purchasing choices.

Look, I can't afford the real stuff. In a perfect world, I'd buy the real stuff, because whether it is essentially different or not, I like the feeling that what I have is special. I don't think the fakes are immoral or bad, and sometimes fakes are _really_ similar to originals, so to argue that there are subtle differences that simply ruin the entire design is beyond snooty.

I think the biggest irony here is that the furniture we're talking about now is furniture that was conceived as simple, streamlined furniture, even furniture that is produced on a big scale. This is not really craftsman stuff; these are not one-of-a-kind pieces. We're talking about furniture that is made out of molds. So, theoretically, arguments for originality are difficult to justify.

More people are employed by Target than by Knoll.

Talking about Modern design being dumbed down for the masses is probably the most unintentionally hilarious demonstration of the failure of Modernism as a movement and an idea. Modernism was always supposed to be art for the masses in the first place, and art so self-evident as to require no dumbing down. Anyone was supposed to be able to "get it" and appreciate it without any intermediation by exclusive or elite education. The fact that modern design has elite cachet and can be spoken of as being dumbed down for the masses means that the most fundamental project of modernism never even got off the ground. Modernism: still made of fail.

NHamilton, my point was that I [think I] can't afford the real stuff either, but there are ways to stick to a budget and get the stuff you want.

EWWWWW THE MASSES!!


THE DIRTY IMPOVERISHED IGNORANT OF DESIGN MASSES!

I think this is amazing - as a design lover who has a close to nothing budget to work on, I love seeing pieces like this - even if it is a "knock-off". Sometimes we splurge on something that's the full price but for an accent like an office chair (that I probably won't use for more than 3 years) I love to see that I can get the same style within a range that's obtainable.

I do understand where some people get upset by this - it's just like when I see people with knock-off handbags and it sorta bothers me... but at the same time, I know if that person could afford the $1200 handbag, they would get it. Same with furnishings.

Anyone know how tall the height adjustment goes in this chair? I love it (original vs. knock-off argument be damned) but am looking for a chair that can go with a 36" height desk.