apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

What makes a good life? Being around people you love and who love you. Doing something (whether a job, a hobby, whatever) that makes you happy, that challenges you. Being as secure as possible, with respect to health and finances.

Definitely surrounding yourself with those you love and who love you. Being healthy and having faith. All while living within your means, whatever they may be.

I think it's a lot of things that contribute to this making more money but not having more. One factor is the consumerism...in part b/c there are a LOT more people on earth than there were 30-40 yrs ago...so demand goes up...supply is down. Also how many people do you know that full out own something like a car or home? Most people lease their cars for 3-5 yrs...and never really pay it off and own it...and people don't buy just one home anymore and stay in it. Up until recently McMansions was the way to go...so we were taking up a lot more land too.
Also as a society with more and more technology minimizing the time lapse between things...ex: news now texted/emailed to cell phones. We have a bigger need for entertainment, back when boardgames and listening to a radio show with the whole family was all society needed for relaxation, things in the sense of money were easier to come by.

a good life, is still made up of what it was 50-100 yrs ago: family, truth, joy. I think people are just losing touch with their inner self....how many people are really just in the moment...without a cell ringing, a text or email popping up, and a tv/radio going? The good like...is the simple life. always has been.

I have a great education and a great job at the top of my industry and I feel like I will never get ahead. The cost of living in Los Angeles is so much I can barely keep my head above water. I live in a studio apartment and my car is paid off.

Single people with no kids and no home ownership in LA get the shaft when it comes to federal taxes too.. It's just so hard!

Good food.

I grew up poor, so now, even though we're in the "family vs home ownership" boat, I look at my life and feel incredibly lucky. I have a great partner and kids, and we live in a warm, comfortable home. I have wonderful friends. I get to do interesting work. I eat nice food. Life's pretty sweet.

This is purely an anecdotal observation, but I feel like our parents maybe could afford a house and a family and even a car or two because they spent less in other areas.

For instance, we had one television growing up, not a complete home entertainment center in every room of the house. We kids each had one pair of "play" shoes and one pair of "dress" shoes. We got toys on our birthdays and Christmas, and they weren't $400 game systems or $200 iPods. My parents drove a car they could afford, that was paid for in cash. I like spending money on fun stuff and luxury items as much as the next guy but those things added up can easily drain a bank account.

...But, we got more STUFF than our parents ever had!!!!
(remember that even thru the 70's a "middle class" family did not travel abroad very often. Or, change cars every 2 for a new model...or, for that matter, the average gal did not own "couture" bags and such.)
Speaking of more, we have more DEBT than our parents as well!!!
( I think we Americans are victims of our own success... our parents felt compelled to "give us what they didn't have growing up"... but, somehow, forgot that they turned out fine without "those material things". From early on we were brainwashed into expecting bigger and better things simply because we were "entitled" to them... now, many "middle class" people feel that they are entitled to designer bags and 90k dollar cars and 65" plasma TVs and extravagant vacations to exotic locales. Our expectations are completely unrealistic with our incomes, hence the staggering debt we collectively have. We've fallen into the trap of equating success and happiness with materialism... we've lost our way, I think. It's time for a less is more approach to living.)

Chris...i think that the less is more approach is starting to hit the "airwaves" again...thank God.

I've given up on the idea of home ownership and am focusing on saving for my retirement. My fiance and I do pretty well salary-wise, but in the Bay Area it's just really hard. Everyone I know who bought a house is completely broke and always worried about their job security. No thanks! I like watching my 401k grow, thank you very much! Having kids seems like a major financial drain as well. Oh, I don't know, I still have a few years to make that decision!

There are some universals that transcend generations, regardless of wealth or the lack thereof: making real connection with other souls, and leaving the world a better place than when you came into it, even if in some small way.

You don't have to be all that old to remember when buying a home didn't equate to a McMansion -- McMansions are a recent craze.

We have been experiencing several decades of targeted advertising aimed at making us good little consumers. Supply and demand itself isn't triggered by a rise in population over the past 30-40 years -- people aren't demanding more because there are more people. People are demanding more because they are exposed to much more advertising that trains them to demand more.

The same is true with technology. It is not that we have a bigger NEED for entertainment -- we have been trained to have a bigger appetite for more technological entertainment. There is a difference. We are confused now as to what a true need is as opposed to what is a want. All ipods and video games could disappear from the face of the earther tomorrow and it really wouldn't matter one bit, except that a lot of people wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

Money was not easier to come by when radio and boardgames were the norm -- it's just that there were fewer options for spending money on high-ticket luxury items. It could still be difficult to earn enough to satisfy one's basic needs. Our basic needs haven't changed -- just our expectations of what our needs are.


What do I think makes a good life??? Good relationships with other people. Time spent in nature recharging. Plenty of unscheduled downtime where you can just be and explore. Having just enough so that you are comfortable, and not wanting more than you can possibly enjoy without becoming inured to what you have. Doing work that is meaningful to you and energizes you.

Totally agree with above. We've become addicted to a lot of useless stuff.

I totally disagree with the premise we are poorer than are parents. We are just spoiled, hyper-consumerist, and unable to save anything. Our struggling is from our own doing. DIY, budget-decorating, and smaller spaces were the norm back then. New trends feel not so much 'back to basics' as 'back to normal'.

I would not have answered that a lot of money is what makes a good life for me nor my partner. We've both had plenty of opportunities to pursue jobs/careers where we could have made a lot more money than we are making now. But we knew that we'd be unhappy with the baggage that these high paying jobs come with and have opted for a simpler life with jobs that we enjoy but that don't pay as much. For us a good life is about pursuing the things that are important to us: strong relationships with our family and friends, good health and jobs that are engaging and enjoyable.

In Los Angeles where we live some of the people we encounter are surprised that we only own one car (and a modest one) between the two of us, that we don't own cell phones, and that up until a year ago, we didn't even have cable. But we've managed to do fine without and don't see a reason to change that. Sometimes it's a little wearying to deal with the reactions to our bohemian life, but hey man, that's just who we are.

Anecdotal, but:

At my age, my dad supported my stay-at-home mom and three kids, owned a house,totally furnished, in a nice neighborhood and had two cars. We weren't rich but we always had new clothes.

Now each my husband and I make more than he did at that time if we adjusted for inflation (as in double or more than he did), and yet the above scene looks impossible.

We do make different choices. We live in an expensive (but not so safe) city neighborhood where we can walk, we have one paid-for car, we save up to furnish our place secondhand. No kids and worried about affording them. I do not buy luxury or high tech items.

I'm not really complaining. Overall, I'm happy, but it seems to me my folks had more and worried less.

Student loans. That's what makes me poor.

If it weren't for student loans we wouldn't be rich but we'd be much more comfortable. $700 a month more comfortable. And I'm not a doctor or a lawyer.

Health care is also more costly and we're putting aside our own money for retirement rather than relying on company pensions.

We have no cable. We drive older cars or take metro. I go to the library for books and shop at thrift stores.

I work a full time job and have lots of contract work on the side to make ends meet.

Hopefully with the vast numbers of young people who supported his candidacy President Obama (Yes we can!)will take a look at the student loan burden on young adults and work with a democratic administration to find a way to give us some relief.

I have a good life. Great church. Great husband. Great community. Great family. But it really shouldn't be quite this hard to get by.

A good life is working toward your dreams. Every step that gets me closer to the life I imagine makes the life I have so much sweeter. I'm thankful for what I have and what I've achieved.

As I get older, what makes me happy becomes more and more simple: creativity, learning new things, laughing with friends and family.

But then, I've paid off my master's degree and have no consumer debt. I'm able to afford my mortgage and one day I'll be able to retire. It feels like an abundant life.

Right now I would be happy if I could get a car, afford to put gas in it, go back to college, and no longer share an apartment with my Mother. At the same time, if I could really have it my way, I would sell everything I own except my Macbook and camera and travel the world.

I don't believe that our parents generation had it any easier. Of course, that depends on what generation you belong to in the first place. I'm definitely what most would consider middle-age, and my parents are depression era/WWII. They did not have it any easier than we do, in fact much harder.

I think that we are indeed victims of consumerism and that most people in their 30s and early 40s weren't part of the "do without" generation.

I've got a friend who is only 5 years younger than I, yet our lifestyles and spending habits are very different. I save d most of my life, spent as little as possible on everything, including meals out, and now have a nice retirement nest egg. She was very motivated to have the latest outfits, eat at the nicest restaurants, etc., and is still struggling with the idea of retirement.

My kids (in their 20's) are each making in the $40K range. When I was my daughter's age, I was making about $25K. I brought my lunch to work, bought all my clothes on sale, and basically made do with a lot less.

I think expectations are much different now than they used to be.

there are tons of numbers and statistics out there clearly showing that in the past 30 years middle class wages have stagnated. we've had a lot of economic growth but almost all of it has gone to the very top of the income ladder.
meanwhile, healthcare, housing, education costs have gone up at a much higher rate than than salaries. so in the end we have less than our parents to spend on necessities. I think it's wrong to say it's all just consumerism, there is a more basic problem here even if you want to live small and simple. consumerism exacerbates it but the fundamental problem is inequality and the dismantling of the new deal. yes, people in europe sometimes pay 50% of their income on taxes, but they get so much in return. how much would you save a year if you had free healthcare, free education (for yourself and your kids and toddlers), long maternity leaves, retirement payments, affordable housing, state of the art public transportation?

I disagree with those who theorize that it is our consumerism that is making us "broker" than our parents.
My parents bought their home for $12K.
We bought ours in the same neighborhood for $600K.
This is not a luxury home, but a mid-level house in a mid-level neighborhood in SoCal.
We have no debt and own our cars outright. We don't have cable TV or gym memberships. We have no boats, expensive vacations, RV's, or other toys/hobbies that cost money.
We run TWO very successful businesses, and yet we are constantly broke, broke, broke.
After we pay our mortgage, prop taxes and (non-govt subsidized) health insurance premiums, the bulk of our income is gone. Two high-level wage earners who live within their means can barely subsist in SoCal. That was just NOT the case for our parents.

I make about 1.5x the median income for where I live, and even I would just barely be able to afford a starter home (townhouse) or 1 bedroom condo in this area. Some things like housing and healthcare have gotten out of whack with reason. The wage scale has definitely been distorted as well. I know a coworker whose parents are having to sell their house because the annual taxes have become as much as they paid for the house 30 years ago.

But at the same time as all of that, there is a huge sense of individual entitlement in the Gen X and Y folks (I fall onto the former). They all seem to think they are *entitled* to a fancy new car, a big house, the latest cell phone, a european vacation, etc, etc. I see this with my coworkers. And yeah, that's created massive consumer debt that contributed to the current mess in credit and housing. (BTW, when did it become acceptable to be called a "consumer"? There is nothing positive about that word.)

So are we poorer than our parents? Yes, particularly in the sense of placing too much importance on individual wants over common needs. It's pretty hard to call this one of the greatest countries in the world when we have by far the largest number of citizens in prison (over 2 million) of any country including China, India, and Russia. There is a social need at the core of this, but our culture today is obsessed with "I want" at the expense of what "we need".

I think blaming massive consumer debt on the younger generations is false, if you look at who has credit card debt from buying what they cant afford...that group ranges way older than genx and geny. Sorin - I know plenty of people who have had to sell because of a tax situation like that, but In my experience that is always due more to gentrification (and yes, normal levels of inflation) than wage/cost disjoint.

In terms of being poorer, I think we feel poorer and overworked compared to past generations because of the 2 worker system (which I support btw). But with 2 adults per stereotypical nuclear family working, social support structures are disintegrating instead of growing. People used to stay in the hospital much longer after procedures, back when there was most likely someone at home to take care of them. Now they are sent home while still dependent on a care taker, and having someone there is often near impossible and extremely expensive in lost wages for their family. I think if the current generation is not poorer, they soon will be because in this country many people's main investment is their home, and with the mortgage crisis, many are loosing all of their savings and won't be able to recover before retirement.

I also tend to disagree with the idea that consumerism is making us broke. I recently had a discussion with my dad about this, he bought his house for $25,000. He paid off his mortgage completely in less than nine years and said he never had to try, he just had that much extra income that it was easy for him. And during this time, he had 2 vehicles completely paid off, bought them with cash.

We were not a wealthy family, my dad worked full time as an electrician, and my mom went back and forth between staying home with my sister and I and working part time.

Today I have friends who are married, both making good salaries, and struggling to make ends meet and plan their finances to start a family. They live in a 500 square foot apartment. They have been budgeting for ages and I wouldn't say they are excessive consumers at all. They share one used vehicle and use transit, and don't really buy much that is unnecessary.

My dad has been helping me fix up my condo which I have bought in the last year. I bought in an older building and I am renovating a bit at a time, on a very small budget. My dad commented without me ever bringing it up, that he thinks it is much harder for our generation. I own my car, am very good with my money, buy all my furniture used, and I don't buy extravagant things or take luxury vacations. I make a good salary, yet I really have to watch my spending.

I am not complaining. I feel very fortunate, I live in a beautiful city, I love my job, and I am surrounded by great friends and family. But on this particular topic, I do think it is harder for our generation. We are likely consuming more than past generations, but this isn't the main part of the problem, our salaries have not increased at the same rate as our living expenses.

I am sorry to say that, but of course housing prices in the US are whak.. were do you think is the subprime mortgage crisis coming from?

Anecdotal evidence aside at how consumerist society has become over the past 30 years, solid economic studies show that the net income adjusted over time, has actually decreased. Add to that the stratospheric rise of health insurance, co-payments, etc., and there you have it. The disparity between the highest 10% of incomes and the lowest has increased dramatically as well: over the past 40 years, especially in the past 15, the rich are getting much, much richer, and the middle class is shrinking.

As for being more consumerist, 40 years ago, families did not need 2 cars, but now, with everyone in suburbs, families do. In order to make money for that 2nd car, and afford good schools (housing in the cachement area of good schools tends to sell at a premium; the alternative is to send the kids to private school -- 6 of one, and a half dozen of the other -- it all works out to the same).

Yes, people buy more clothing and consumerist goods -- but take a look, the rich are setting the pace. They can afford to.

As to the reasons for this, well, just look at the economic and social (e.g. health care) policies instituted under Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.

It's a long one:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9505EFD9113AF933A15753C1A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=10

I agree with the consumer element that people have brought up. I grew up somewhat poor, and my parents had friends who I thought were incredibly rich. We always were in awe of how much "stuff" they bought, and how much money they spent. But when I look around now, I see that everyone is spending and accumulating the amount and kinds of things that I thought were the provenance of the super-rich.

Having lived in Europe (as well as Africa), I also see that people there don't shop and buy nearly the way that we do. THey might own three or four really nice and expensive outfits, which they meticulously maintain for years. We buy new clothes cheaper and quantity each season. I think we end up spending far more, for far less.

In all the national debate about the economy, I find it disturbing that our politicians and thinkers don't have the courage to say, "Cut back on the unessentials. Let's return to simpler values." Then talk about helping with mortgages and oil prices makes sense. But giving us a tax refund so we'll go shopping in order to help the economy is cowardly.

BTW, for context, I have 2 kids, make less than 50k as a family, and live quite well in Washington DC.

I didn't read through all of these, but just the top 5 or 6. It's apparent, though, that most of us feel the same. I completely agree with the ones that I read, particularly chris_94131. Hit the nail on the head.

I've recently been battling the question of whether or not to have kids, simply because of the financial and earthly burden. I want a house (a modest one, of course) and I want to be able to help my mom and stepdad when they're older and unable to help themselves. I feel like there isn't enough money to do it all.

At the same time, my fiance and I will debt free soon, and have established a simpler life, and I think we're smart enough to make it happen. Everyday, I feel blessed to have what I have - a warm home in the winter months, the genuine love of a partner, family, friends and cats, and access to local, organic food. If I never travel again, or ever have that Craftsman Bungalow, I'll still be content.

Life is good.

As for the "consumerism," remember that "stuff" is a lot cheaper now than it used to be. Elizabeth Warren has done good work on this. Clothing, toys, entertainment, etc. actually take up a smaller percentage of income than they did a generation ago, even though people have more clothes, gizmos, etc.

If wages had kept up with inflation, etc. through the years, the minimum wage would now be $15.75. 40ish years ago, a wall street lawyer's starting salary was 1.5 times that of the starting salary of a NYC public school teacher. Now it's over 4 times.

Remember, a $200,000 income means you are in the top 3.5% of American households. And that means you are rich.

Yes, we own a lot more crap, but as Louisa pointed out in an earlier comment, wages have not kept up with inflation. That's why more young people are choosing to live at home even after graduating from college. The father of a friend of a friend is or was a plumber? electrician? in a union. The father was able to buy a house, a boat, have a country club membership, and raise a family when he was in his mid-20s because his wages supported that. Most of the people I know who are in their mid-20s now are struggling to pay off student loans and have high rents. Sure, they had more choices than their parents, and they might be better educated, but even my friends who are frugal and have savings wouldn't be able to buy unless their parents helped out with a down payment.

It makes no sense to me that higher education is as expensive as it is. If we, as a nation, were more educated our country would benefit overall -- and that would translate to improvements worldwide. Why doesn't our government support higher education for all?

I would support higher taxes for government provided health care and higher education.

But one thing that younger generations just don't get is SAVING!!!!!

I'm in theatre. I'm in the lowest tax bracket -- but I save and invest. I may not be a rich, old man -- but I will play the rich, old man's game.

See how the rich get richer and copy -- even if it's only $50 a month -- it adds up.

(hopefully.)

Your friend is complaining about how hard it is to save for college for his two kids: He should consider himself lucky - there are a lot of people who cannot afford to even have kids in the first place.

GothamTomato:
Really, let's be honest. Almost no one can afford to have kids, but people do anyway, and make the best life they can. In my experience, kids require far less than people imagine they do, and are usually much happier and well adjusted when they are not spoiled anyway. People have this tendency to believe that they want to keep their lives exactly as is and then figure out a way to shoehorn a child/children into that life, and that can be a terribly challenging way to approach it.

Ringo-if you support a family of four in D.C. on less than 50K, then you CLEARLY bought your home years ago, and thus do not have the insane living expenses the rest of us commenters have-that, or you're in a rent-controlled building with super-cheap rent. I'd bet a good majority of us are having 50-75% of our income ciphoned off by housing and health care. If you're not having this problem, you're from a different generation and bought in the 70s, 80s, or early 90s.

I certainly wouldn't say my parents had a more comfortable life - both, Japanese Americans, were interned during WWII. BUT, my father served in the army immediately thereafter and, thanks to the GI Bill, was able to go to college on the government's dime, have a family, and support that family in a middle-class lifestyle in an environment where real wages were increasing. Before meeting my father, my mother was living a middle class lifestyle in Los Angeles as a secretary at a law firm with only a high school education.

I read somewhere that real wages have not gone up in more than 8 years. In that regards, this current generation is poorer than our parents. I don't think it's consumerism that makes us poorer; rather, for many, particularly blue collar/manufacturing workers and now technology workers, it's simply a lack of opportunities to move ahead, particularly when their jobs, with our government's encouragement, are being shipped overseas.

A good life is based on security and serenity.

Advantage of growing up without too much: you always have more than you started with - and you know it.

I still appreciate the luxury of being able to load up at Target on pretty, silly things. Heck, I still appreciate quality toilet paper.

A few months ago I read about how necessity/luxury perception has shifted radically in less than 20 years. (one example was A/C)

Then consider the lattes, take out, more restaurants, gyms & yoga, massages, maybe a cleaning service. All of those things (including AC) were unthinkable when we were kids.

I can enjoy spending - even splurging on things I enjoy. I also love Depression-era frugalities that leave my BF incredulous.

Moderation and appreciation....