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I had no problem returning an unopened box of Jamestown Plank. They refunded me my money minus the restocking fee without any problems.

Regarding the floor:
Almost one month in and no problems to report.

Why no updates any more?

I found that EMERALD FLOORS had some of the best prices on top name floors. I found them at www.emerldfloors.com .
They do not charge tax to most states and have prices on all types of hardwood floors that are 70% or better below retail. They have free samples and ship the product to your door.

Hopefully, I can provide a little insight that makes life easier for a lot of you. I'm a flooring consultant and inspector in upstate New York, and have no connections with LL.

Cupping - the only reason boards cup is that the top is drier than the bottom. As wood dries, it shrinks. If the top shrinks and the bottom doesn't, it will cup. This moisture imbalance can be caused by 1) the subfloor having more moisture than the flooring, or 2) the air above the floor being drier than the conditions the wood was acclimated to. All wood, no matter how cheap or expensive, will react this same way. It's just adjusting to its environment.

Some comments mentioned that when the flooring and subfloor were checked for moisture before installation, the flooring was much wetter than the subfloor, even after acclimation. Were the moisture meter readings adjusted for the type of wood being tested? Exotics are typically much more dense than plywood subfloors. If Brazilian Cherry or Brazilian Koa reads 12% moisture content and the subfloor reads 8%, they are actually the same moisture content.

Sorry for being so long-winded. If you want more info on selecting, installing, or maintaining your wood floor, check out my FAQ page at www.woodflooranswers.com (don't worry, I don't sell anything online).

Mike

Correction - "If Brazilian Cherry or Brazilian Koa reads 12% moisture content and the subfloor reads 8%, they are actually the same moisture content" - should read "they MAY be the same moisture content." Different subfloors have different densities, too, so readings can vary. Sorry for any confusion.

Mike

In response to the query about the comment from "Frank" on 5-22-2006 about a "legal trick" to get "three times the cost" of the floor from LL, he was probably talking about his state's version of the Unfair Trade Practices Act or Consumer Protection Act. Most states' versions of this ubiquitous law allow for up to three times actual damages, plus attorney fees...but only if you win!
As for me, the jury is still out on whether to do business with this company. I'll be reading up on the NWFA website, and woodflooranswers.com, and talking to a few local installers. I certainly don't anticipate spending $3000 to $4000 on new floors without a lot of research. Stay tuned....

Hello,

I really liked the bloodwood I saw at LL. Although it is expensive and I am worried about the quality after all of this reading. Does anyone know of a wood similiar in color, or of other places that carry bloodwood reasonably.

Thanks So Much,
Danni

I love coming back to this thread and still get surprised by some of the horror stories regarding LL. I have never heard about any hardwood flooring company having so many flooring failures, warranty issues, defective material, and charge backs. Hardwood flooring is a final decision that should last a lifetime. It amazes me that anyone would take a chance with a company that has so many problems just to save a couple hundred bucks. Its not worth it.

I would personally help any of our customers if any problems arise and give a 100% return on anything found defective had it not been installed. In fact, I am dealing with a case right now and doing everything in my power to carry out the warranty and get the problem areas replaced even though the customer's floor shrank from being too dry. Not our fault but we are still pushing the manufacturer for a replacement of boards, and it is working!

www.HardwoodManiac.com

First of all, the only thing that makes wood move, cup, or split is moisture. If your would cups it's not because you bought defective product from LL, it's because you didn't do the research and you forgot to acclaimate your wood or your humidity levels are improper for installing hardwood. Secondly, it is not the responsibility of LL to hold your hand through your entire hardwood flooring process. YOU YOURSELF should be highly educated before installing any type of wood flooring. Believe it or not....you are not the only customer LL has to deal with. If you want someone to hold your hand then pay a professional to come out to your house, pick your species of wood, and then let him sell you oak with a cherry stain on it and call it "brazilian cherry" for 6 dollars a foot. If you want someone to wip your tears, call up simply floored and let them charge you an arm and a leg. If you actually want a real brazilian cherry or other exotic woods for a great deal then LL is your place. The brazilian species of wood are much harder than regular red oak and therefore more difficult to work with. Thirdly, the reason their have been so many complaints about LL is because people in general are idiots when it comes to hardwood flooring and don't educate themselves prior to spending thousands of dollars on floors. Why would any humidity or moisture problems be the fault of LL? The 50 year finish warranty is on the finish! If your finish ever cracks, bubbles, flakes or anything of that nature, your floor is warrantied for 50 years!!!.......It's funny.......I haven't read one complaint about the finish of LL floors.

I purchased and had professionally installed LL's Durawood Honey Oak engineered wood, SKU (Durenho) product five years ago in my living room, hall and kitchen. My only issue is that I didn't purchase any extra (misplaced the half box I had for repairs), and now I need to replace 8 pieces and it's "obsolete" according to LL. Anyone have an idea how I can proceed?

Make sure that you buy extra if you go with LL...

If anyone has any idea how I can get more, please post a reply.

Thanks,
Uni

I am a homeowner who's hobby is my house. I consider myself a 'closet' carpenter. I would say my skill level is above average.

I bought roughly 900 sq/f of Bellawood Select Maple 2 1/4 x 3/4 hardwood from LL and installed it myself on the main level of our 1420 sq/f ranch. I did a ton of research on the proper way to acclimate and install a wood flooring product, as per the NOFMA's guidlines (not just LL instructions) even before purchasing the product. I acclimated the product for 3 weeks, not days before install. I bought a Delmhorst moisture meter to check moisture content of both the subfloor and hardwood prior and during the install. I monitored indoor temperature and humidity with a digital hygrometer/thermometer, again, prior and during the install. I layed #15 felt paper per the NOFMA's schedule. I also nailed using the NOFMA's schedule with the proper length nail. I made sure my subfloor was approved for hardwood prior to my purchase and did extensive leveling during the install. Basically what I'm saying is I took my time and did it right.

I am very pleased with the results of my project, now some 10 months later. Yes, there are things I would have done differently in hind sight, but my "installer eyes" are more critical than most. Perfection isn't good enough most of the time for me. :)

It's amazing to me that there are so many complaints from people who honestly have no buisness attempting any project with wood, let alone a flooring project. Understanding the properties of wood and the environment in which it is to be laid is critical. Yes, LL sells to DIY'ers like myself. Unfortunately people with no carpentry skill, who get caught up in watching HGTV, think they can handle this. IMO, a hardwood flooring project is not for that 'average joe' skill set. You really need to have the right tools, the know-how, and the patience to do it right.

-brett

Do a Nancy Reagan and just say NO!
scroll down and see what happened to me...

Dear Mr. Sullivan,
It has been one week since I wrote to you and still no action from your company beyond promises that were made to me by Brian Poulin that somebody would be taking care of me. This is really unbelievable! I can’t understand how a company of your size can operate in this manner and leave customers hanging like this.

David

------ Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:32:28 -0400
To:
Conversation: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached
Subject: FW: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached

Dear Mr. Sullivan,
Please see that I’ve been trying get some help with the defective flooring that I bought and I’ve been unsuccessful. Your customer service people want me to wait at least a week to tell me what they can do to replace my floors. I’m getting married in a few weeks and my fiancée wants to wring my neck because we can’t move back into the apartment until the floor in installed.

Please help and see the attached pictures of the defective flooring and maybe you can help me.

------ Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:30:46 -0400
To: Laura Layne
Cc:
Conversation: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached
Subject: Re: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached

Dear Laura,
I was very disturbed by our phone call that lumber liquidators would not be picking up taking responsibility for your defective floor. I cannot delay my remodeling a week while your company decides what to do and get back to me the middle of next week. I had brought samples and pictures to your store yesterday and was assured they would be sent back to your corporate offices via FedEx, you have just informed me that that is now being done today. Your store is 20 blocks from my apartment you are welcome anytime to come inspect anytime.... Therefore I am contacting the, The New York City Department of Consumer Affairs, NY State Attorney General’s Office as well as the Better Business Bureau and the New York Post,Channel 4 Channel 5 News, Channel 7 News and Channel 11 News, and Channel 9 News, New York 1 News, in the hopes that somebody will want to help out in this situation... I had mentioned to you that 35% of the wood was not good and that if you could replace that amount by finding that amount from your other stores I would sort through the bad flooring just so my job wouldn’t be delayed further. I explained to you that I’m getting married in a few weeks and I’d like to be back in my apartment before the wedding and we have relatives that will be visiting from around the country!!

Sincerely,
David


From: Laura Layne
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:28:08 -0400

Conversation: Defective Flooring Pictures from David attached
Subject: RE: Defective Flooring Pictures from David attached

Yes, I did receive them thank you,

Regards,

Laura Layne
Customer Care Representative II
3000 John Deere Road
Toano, VA 23168
1-800-366-4204 Ext. 7530
Direct: 757-566-7530
Fax: 757-259-7292

Lumber Liquidators Inc.,
Hardood Flooring....FOR LESS!!!
www.lumberliquidators.com 1-800-FLOORING!!!


From: David
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Laura Layne
Subject: Defective Flooring Pictures from David Berger attached

Hi Laura,
Attached please see the attached pictures of defective flooring Brazilian Teak 5x3/4in.
Please get back to me as soon as possible on what to do as my contractors are on the site waiting and my whole remodel job is being held up by this.
Thanks,
David

IMG_0175.JPG

IMG_0176.JPG

IMG_0178.JPG

IMG_0177.JPG

IMG_0179.JPG

IMG_0174.JPG

------ End of Forwarded Message

------ End of Forwarded Message



I am a DIY & have installed 2 HWF from LL. Both are on the second level of my home & it has been 10 months & 7 months since I have done it. I have had 0 problems thus far & one room is a FROG & the only way I could afford it was to use second pieces: 75% of these are 6" and they are 2.25 wide. That was a lot of nailing with no splits to mention. Also, with short boards the cupping risk doubles. No problems again. This room also has tremendous temp swings since I'm cheap & it is the FROG. I keep it warm in summer & cold in winter. Being from Charleston, SC humidity is a daily event. I let the boards stay in my garage for 2 weeks prior to laying & I busted open the bands on each bundle and seperated the bundles while airing. I'm planning my master bedroom now & will buy from LL. I'm no rocket scientist but I have had no problems & will buy until there is a problem

I purchased over 3,000 sq. ft of Bella wood (5 inch wide 3/4 inch thick Brazillian Cherry) from the Conyers, Ga LL location. The experiance for the most part was very good. Yes I recieved a little price break for the amount purchased, but not that much. I feel that I did get a quality product. I also bought BC treads to change out my stairs. The original treads were poor quality, but I asked for a lower priced item, and when they came in, they were defective, when delivered. The Manager of that location brought a better quality product to my home...45 minutes away, at his cost and applied what I originally paid to the new price and gave me a discount for my trouble. I have been in retail for over 30 years and I felt the manager went above and beyond.
As far as informing me of issues, the people I dealt with told me how long my product had to cure before installing and also warned me of darkening in the sun. Every retailer struggles with consistency when it comes to staffing and I would have to say that if anyone on this works with people and do their own hiring, you know it takes time to train and overcome turnover. I am happy with my experiance at this location.
On the other hand, I did have issues with my installers. The lead guy had personal issues going on and the team were left on their own. My installer also had me order too much. I have have 5 boxes. If I ever get brave enough to do it on my own, I guess I will install this in my walk in closet.
I now have some gaps between some boards and I am not sure how to properly fix this. This just started within the last year and clearly shows some kind of shrinkage etc. or it shows that they were not nailed in correctly.
Is there anyone on this blog, that lives in Atlanta, that can offer how to correct this, or reccomend someone who can? I was told to mix saw dust with Glue, but have read conficting reports on the results. I have had a heck of a time finding wood putty that matches. I put in some in the hall that was supposed to take a stain. That was all bunk, and I guess I will have to dig out the white stripes. If anyone local has a better idea, please let me know before I really mess this up.
As far as a 50 yr warranty for Bella finish, the box clearly states it warranties against manufacturer defects and that once nailed, you are responsible.
Again, LL went above and beyond for me and I am sorry to hear that others did not have the same positive experiance. I just have to fill in my gaps.
teb

I bought Nirvana flooring from Lumber Liquidators and have found it to have been the worst decision I ever made! It is a terrible, cheap product and the company will not stand buy what is supposed to be a 25-year warranted product. After just two years it is cupping, separating, and shrinking. There is no particular pattern. I have issues throughout my entire house; I had it installed in every room of my three-bedroom, two storey house except the bathrooms. It shows every footprint, whether they are from me walking around in dry socks to the dog, and it does not like to clean easily at all. Plain water stains it! I complained to the company about the shrinking and separating and was told that if it was defective it shouldn't have been installed. These are issues that occurred after installation. I had to return box after box of the stuff during the installation process (actually 17 boxes) because the ends were not plumb and didn't fit together properly. I should have just sent it all back, but the installers had already finished two rooms. I was also told that because I don't have central air in my home the warranty was voided because the environment would cause the flooring to change (but isn't that why I bought laminate instead of real wood!!!) and when it gets humid the floor naturally shrinks (I have that in writing), which is of course what happens to real wood when the air gets very dry. I tried for months to get the company to send someone to look at my floor and finally gave up after getting nowhere. If I ever do this again, when I do this again, because I will have to replace this floor, I will buy a quality laminate floor from Pergo. I would not recommend any laminate from Lumber Liquidators, regardless of how good the price or deal may be.

Cupping is the installers fault not the manufacturers. Anyone who has worked with any hardwood know that it must be stored 'stickered' or in bundles where it will be used until it is acclimated.

I installed Bellawood 3/4" 4" wide Santos Mahogany which had acclimated for several months before installation and here it is 4 years later and no issues.

I also installed 3/8" x 3" flooring in a basement over vapor barrier and plywood and again I have not had any issues and that was 4 1/2 years ago.

I don't know how to tell people this, but you should never buy products from Lumber Liquidators.

Firstly, most of those people who work there are paid peanuts. They are not paid to be professionals who know what they are talking about.

Telling people to glue 3/4" solids onto concrete floors is just wrong. No manufacturer will warranty the product is you glue down those thick solids. Keep that in mind. Don't believe me? Call up any manufacturer and listen to what they tell you.

Two, many of the products they carry are factory seconds. What does this mean? Well, it means a number of things. It could be that the product has a high amount of defects. It also could be that the product, if it comes in random lengths, contains a high concentration of short pieces in a box. That's why it is "liquidation." Many of the products may be made by shaw, armstrong etc, but they will not put their names on it because it is not up to their standards.

Also, Casa de Colour, Bellawood and more are private labels of Lumber Liquidators. The warranties are through them. There is no flooring manufacturer to back the product warranties. Anyone who has trouble with the products of LL, will have to go through LL. Then LL sends out an investigator, who always seems to side with them and states the product was installed wrong.

About the warranties....They are tailgate warranties. Read the warranty on their websites and you will see why I say that. Then read a comparable warranty from a quality company like Armstrong or Shaw and you will see the difference.

Many of their laminates are also of inferior quality. The joints are easily broken on many of their 12MM products. That should not happen on a good thick laminate.

Keep in mind, their job is to sell you only the product. They do not care how it will hold up in your house.

By the way, I used to work for a flooring company for 15 years that also offered installation by its own contractors. Lumber liquidators subcontracts, just like Home Depot and the other box retailers. Our company, because we installed, never brought inferior products into our showroom. Our boss knew it was not worth the headaches that can come back to bite us on our butts. When a company subcontracts, it can blame the installers for everything and then not take care of the customer. Remember that. If a situation is taken care of, it can take weeks, even months, for the issue to be resolved.

I have installed many floors from LL and regularly send my customers there. Jacque123 sounds like you worked for a business they put under.
I have never had a huge problem with their quality. But then I do thing right I had one job that I had bad material. You know how I knew I had bad material I racked out two boxes before installing it. When I called them they told me to bring it back and shipped in new flooring from another store to get product to me as fast as possible. I also have installed their 12MM laminate on quite a bit of occasions and have no idea what you are talking about with the chipping of the edges. They are a breeze to put down.
I have on several occasions gotten referrals of jobs partly done and have to say watch who your installer is. Spend the money get a good installer you are paying us for our time but more importantly our expertise. We come at a higher cost so we can catch any problems before laying the floor and so when we are done you can be completely happy From my stand point I've always been happy with them. They have always led my customers and even me in the right direction. Use this to judge your installer just kind of phrase them into questions http://hardwoodfloorsmag.com/articles/article.aspx?articleid=203&zoneid=2
They are quite obvious to a professional but getting a sub par installer can ruin you whole entire floor and experience.