You may have noticed that we've been playing with our Google ads lately and there is now a new placement in the extended entry of each post.
This means that you won't see it on the main page, but when you click through to the rest of the post you'll see a bunch of key words right in the middle of the post that are Google key words ads. Click on one of them and you are visiting an advertiser.
You see, it's right above this here.
You will also notice that they are tuned exactly to the post you are reading (most of the time) because they scan the text for relevance. You'll also notice that we've got more ads going than six months ago. All of this brings with it somewhat mixed feelings, but basically we're glad we're making money, and we believe that we're doing it in the most aesthetically pleasing and reader first/advertiser second way possible.
BUT we know there are some out there that find some of this new ad presence objectionable, so we thought we'd take a moment to share our thoughts on the matter.
We like our advertisers. We only take those that have relevance to our mission, and we like all the companies and people that have bought advertising with us so far.
We also like Google. Maybe we've drunk too much Cool-Aid, but we really like their technology as well as the way in which they've used it and integrated it into a whole bunch of applications that are FREE for us to use. We like Gmail. We like Google Maps. We like Google Earth. We like Google desktop.
Like Google, we are also free to readers and we like that. That does make us dependent on advertising, however, so we do need to be smart about employing it and integrating it into the site. That's what we've been doing. We will always put our reader first and the advertising second and you will know this by how much space we devote to blogging and how much to advertising. In our mind, the top of the page and the upper left hand are the sacred spaces. This is where your eye naturally goes to first. We will never have advertising in these places. Our post space will always be the biggest space on the page and the most prominent. It's about reading after all and we trust that as long as we do a good job, we'll always be able to support ourselves with advertising on the margins and between posts down the line.
There are other approaches however. Some feel that as long as you are advertising based you will ultimately always be serving the advertiser and not the reader. Some media organizations work with a subscription system which makes the reader the real patron and allows the company to serve the reader first. This all makes sense, but you do then have the problem of losing many readers who will not pay to subscribe. There are good ideas on both sides.
For the time being we're staying totally free to the reader and using advertising to pay our bills. It's just what works for us right now and it feels fine. However, this may change in the future as the future is always more complicated than that the present and we're open to that. Nothing is set in stone. We are flexible. And we're always open to suggestions from readers, because thats how this blog became what it is today.
Best, Maxwell
Copyright © 2008 Apartment Therapy
Keep 'em.
We need the site, you need the funds to keep it going, and your implementation has indeed been the least obstrusive that I have seen.
As I said in the last OT, I have never understood ppl's objections to advertising. I'm not saying that that is an invalid objection - just saying I don't get it when there are worse things in the world of spyware advertising where your pc does get hijacked and rendered inoperable:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_29/b3993001.htm?chan=search
Adds are a part of any free website... and people are just complaining to complain.
I find the adds on this site relevant because they are directly related to products you are blogging. When you go on about the merits of CB2's catalog a link (ie add) to their website is absolutly relevant.
i don't see what the big deal is, either. for the first couple days, it was jarring to the eye, but hey, you get used to it. there's advertising plunked all over everything we see these days. refusing it on this site isn't going to change that. and i don't see why the sidebar ads are OK while the new text break ads are somehow crossing the line. ads are ads.
The other thing I find ironic, and this is something that nyc Chris touched upon, is that we get many ppl asking where to source certain items and we get many ppl responding with either personal recommendations or simply links to vendors, craftspeople, etc. No one objects to those links but they are very similar to the types you can find when you do click on an ad link.
From one of those ad links I just found a custom cabinet maker who does not appear to be a large corporation and whose pictures show that he does very good work. Isn't that useful to ppl? Of course it is because that is the kind of thing that we as a community has provided links to in the past with gratitude expressed from the person needing help.
Not all advertising is evil and the nature of a site like this is that a lot of us are looking to buy product so ads within context are useful. It is nothing like spyware or pop up ads which have no relevance.
I'm an avid AT reader and must say that the ads don't bother me. I'm glad that they aren't all over the site nor pop ups everytime I come here. I appreciate you all for taking the time to explain to us readers the purpose for the ads.
Cheers!
Keep'em! It's a win-win situation. You get the funds to continue the site, the site stays afloat and we are all happy.
Yeah, because honestly, I don't know if I'd be willing to pay actual cold hard cash for one more thing in my life. Keeping this free keeps me coming back kind of a lot.
'sides, google as a company isn't a bad one. green design on their campus in mountain view, treat their employees like royalty, give their users cool information in spades, provide the best outlyer information out there (who crawls better than google?)...not evil.
Here here. Good on you for standing up for yourself. The majority of us seem not to mind these ads, so just brush it off :)
You have -way- better things to do with your time...like... decorate! Naturally.
Maxwell,
I appreciate what you say about Google. I hadn't thought of it that way--that Google itself is a free provider of all kinds of fabulous services to everyone and is so brilliant and has become totally integrated into our lives. That makes me look much more kindly on those little lines of Google critters in the middle of the text.
And of course, a blog that is self-supporting is still a fairly rare thing and I, as a long-time participant in AT, want nothing but the best for you and for AT, and am very happy that AT is able to bring in income.
Just chiming in that I don't mind it either.
keep the ads. keep the site going. folks need to get over it.
Keep the ads, as you need them to keep funding the site. No one wants their site to be 80% ads, 20% content and I think as long as the balance is kept appropriate and the good content keeps coming, then I can't complain :)
If the ads are useful to people, they'll make money to run the site. If the ads are not useful, they won't get clickthroughs, which means no money, which means you'll try something else. These things work themselves out.
I find the ads relevant to the AT community and to my needs.
I also understand that to keep this wonderful site going for our benefit, money to support it has to come from somewhere, and Maxwell has done it in the most restrained way possible.
To me, the tone and look of AT definitely still say readers first/advertisers second. (For crying out loud, people, it isn't as if Maxwell is pushing swamp real estate on you).
Am still enjoying the site. Keep up the good work.
No complaints from me about 'em.
Do what you have to do.
What is with those codes tho, annoying?
Susan
I don't mind them. I just mind where they are placed. And they be put at the top of the article? Or at the bottom? Or on the side? Just not right in the middle.
The first few times the ads did jar eye, but nothing that we cant get used to. The ads bring in the money, supports the site, and we support all that helps AT stay up and running.
Also very much appreciate you taking the time to explain your point of view.
Maxwell, you've gone above and beyond at addressing a non-issue that was only a perceived problem to a very few but outspoken, small-minded readers. The same people posted complaints on multiple threads, which I think gave the impression that there was more objection than actually existed. In each case, this lead to an outpouring of regular reader/writers responding in your defense. I notice, now that you've created a thread purpose built for them to voice their concerns, that the nay-sayers have suddenly fallen silent. I'm glad to see so many people speaking up in support of the site.
I think the current implementation of advertising on this site has fine and generally unobjectionable. It keeps you in business and the site free for us to visit. If I start seeing those crazy pop-up ads though I would have to object.
"has been fine"
It's great that Maxwell responded to yesterday's comments. Thanks.
I'm packing to go away this weekend so I don't have much time to respond. I pretty much stand by my statements of yesterday, none of which identified advertising (or Google) as "evil." "Annoying" was more like it, and it was only in terms of where they were placed on the post. It's all moot since these new ads are apparently here to stay for now.
In any case, in reponse to J-Pup's point about sourcing, on AT, I'd rather find out about sourcing by seeing what people ask and what others suggest as answers. I can do a web search just as well as anyone else. Yeah, I'd use Google.
Maxwell,
I really appreciate this post and your explaining the situation.
I too am a big fan of Google. I use Gmail (and tell everyone else to use it), I love Google Map, Google Earth and Google Desktop too! I agree that as far as advertisers and aesthetics go, Google is by far the best choice. So from my point of view, Google is not evil!
My concern was not on using Google ads, but rather the placement. I do agree with others that my eyes will become more accustomed to the new look. However, I still would prefer them not to be in the middle of a post. I would prefer off to the side, above or below. If that isn't possible, then I understand.
NY'r should not be complaining about ads. They are everywhere. Don't you advertise yourselves ?
Long live Google!
Keep the Google ads. And since you've stated your intentions above regarding advertising placement and keeping the actual AT content most prominent, I say solicit even more advertisers.
Also, I don't think that the advertising you choose to run needs to be specifically shelter-focused. I didn't find either the Stirrings cocktail mixer ad (from a year ago) or the Gotan Project "Lunatico" album ad (which ran on the AT-LA site last Spring) to be objectionable. Seems to me that AT has evolved and has created its own culture and lifestyle, both of which I'm sure many advertisers would find attractive.
PS Just continue to say no to pop-up ads and I'll never complain!
I missed yesterday's convo, but I agree with everyone...At first I thought "Hmm, what are these things?" and found them annoying, but of course it didn't keep me from coming to AT and my annoyance was short lived.I think people are change-adverse, but when it comes down to it, they're easy to see if you want to see them, and ignore if you want to ignore. Do what you gotta do!
Enrique and j-pup are right on the money. Maxwell's running this site to make a quick buck and he's entitled to post any ads he wants that will allow him to get quickly to the 2 million dollar house he wants.
Chris (NYC): Gotcha! The "C" in your name stands for Cheney, right? I agree with you that people who disagree with Maxwell should leave AT. In fact, I think they should leave America.
Like most, after a day or two of the ads snagging my attention, they seemed to fade and now I don't see them at all unless I'm actually looking for a store link. These are quite subtle when compared to the ads of many other sites.
I agree with Shelby. The ads threw me off for a bit, but after a while, you don't really "see" them anymore. Like they way you learn to ignore things in the periphery in this media crazed world.
For us readers, AT is not only free entertainment, it's also an amazing resource. My home is a better place because of this site. So, if you're making money on those ads, I say more power to you.
I disagree that Maxwell is running this site to make a quick buck though. It looks to me like this site is a labor of love, and that a lot of hard work goes into it. Another reason why the ads are A-ok with me.
Why would ads bother me more here than they do any of the 5,349 places I see advertising every single day. Watch TV? Ads. Read the NYTimes? Ads. Read Entertainment Weekly like I was this morning? Ads. And I *paid* for that magazine. So of course a free site like AT that has morphed from a hobby to a vocation has to have ads. I'm just glad they're relevant and tasteful.
I will admit that Google's actions in China give me pause. Google has "cause no harm" as their credo but they seem to have strayed. I do appreciate their innovations and I'm a great admirer of their business model.
Ultimately, count me in the "no problem with ads" column.
The thoughtful one,
I just posted on the other thread that I thought Chris(nyc) took an unnecessarily aggressive approach to defending the ads. I don't think anyone is unwilling to listen to justifications, but none had been offered until this thread.
I am not against the ads, but geez, people, it's not something to get in fistfights over. Maxwell managed to remain calm and gentlemanly while explaining his rationale, and he's the one whose livelihood depends on the ads. No one else needs to get all riled up, imo.
People will ALWAYS find something to nitpick about. The site is GREAT as-is!!
I'm a long time AT lurker, and your ad placement is so unobtrusive that I didn't even notice it 'til this discussion opened :-) One gets so used to ads on sites like this, that ya read right past them; I wonder sometimes about their effectiveness.
BTW congats on your site, and recent expansion; great resource!
The ads don't bother me a bit. Make money :)
However, my favorite advertising is done on Salon.com where you get to decide to watch a mega-ad a day, or simply pay. It's nice to have a choice.
Regarding ads, it's funny... I often see big-brand products advertised elsewhere where I think, "They could have the coolest banner ad on AT!"
I'd love to see more big names recognize the advertising potential of Blogs like this.
Not to be cynical, and I realize the discussion was over Friday, but without a doubt, these polarized arguments lead to lots of AT URL hits throughout the day, and these are exactly what allows AT to get the ad deals they do get.
And I have myself to blame for starting many of the polarized arguments, Including this one, by voicing my reaction to the ad placement...