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you can't recycle the CO2 cartidges?

I'm the first voter? I said "other" and by that I kind of mean that I'd just see if I could just do with regular tap ("non-gasseuse" as they say in Paris) water, since apparently carbonation, itself, is not really good for you.

I realize that it's probably not "carbonation" per se, in the natural stuff, though.

Picking up one or two little seltzer bottles at your local Whole Foods, or something, especially if there was one of the sources that looked vaguely regional, if not entirely local, might be one solution, but that might only mainly help if you're planning on using it to mix pomegranate juice with, like I do, to cut the tartness or something.

What's wrong with water from your tap? The water in NYC tastes good and is safe, but you can get a free testing kit from the city if you're worried about the quality. Call 311.

I just use a Britta jug at home for my tap water, and aside from the unnerving fact that the filters are not recyclable (why???), it lasts long and tastes good. And our coffee and tea have a great hue to them (not muddy).

However, if you must opt for fizzy spring water, go local. Its such a great thing to know that there are mineral springs nearby - they traditionally were a draw for curing one's ailments (think Bath in England, Banff in Alberta). Good luck finding Saratoga Springs. I would try to call or email the company to ask about local suppliers.

Curtis - not being rude but just a little fyi - it's "non gazeuse" ou "l'eau gazuese" for the kind with bubbles or you could say "pétillante"

Grid - Britta filters aren't recyclable in the usual way because they contain mostly non-recyclable components (activated carbon and resin). In other countries (Germany, Great Britain, Ireland, France and Switzerland), Britta filters can be recycled/reused by being returned to Britta, but for some reason that isn't possible here. Maybe emailing them about would get an answer?

Graham, great suggestion. I've done just that!

Has anyone else (beside Sarah in Boston) had any experience with those Soda Club devices? They seem perfect in that you can use ordinary tap water. (MrGreen the point isn't avoiding tap water but rather getting carbonation *into* tap water for those who like, say, Campari and soda or soda with lime.) All the packing materials and shipping from Israel mitigates the benefits somewhat, but it's certainly better than the two cases of San P. I go through each month. I'd love to hear about more experiences with it.

If you're in Manhattan, you can sign up with Mitchell's for delivery of Saratoga Springs water. Go to http://www.mitchells-ny.com/. Not cheap, but very reliable.

I get my weekend NY Times from these guys, and they're lovely to work with.

Here are all the places in New York that sell Saratoga springs water....

http://www.saratogaspringwater.com/Pages/Product_Search/NY.html

You can go to their website and type in your zip code for locations. Possibly you could find out who sells it by the case.
Seltzer **sigh** is just not the same.

There was just an article in the NY Times (I think--maybe Times Select) that questioned whether local was always by definition more green.

If Italian water, for instance, is placed on a huge barge with many other things that were being shipped anyways, is it really less green than water being shipped in an individual truck, that goes polluting through pristine farms upstate?

I wish I knew the answer. Seems like all of this is vastly complicated.

I think you’re wasting time worrying about stuff that won’t really help you or the environment in the long run... seriously.

If you’re really concerned about reducing waste and doing some conservation, remove products like Coca-Cola from your shopping list. Basically anything that produces huge amounts of waste for a relatively small amount of product.

Stop driving, using the A/C, disposable diapers for the little ones, blah blah blah...

We live in a consumer/waste oriented society. No matter what you do you’ll never be able to change the world on your own and by focusing on reducing your mineral water usage you’ll make up for it with something else.

Just enjoy your mineral water and don’t worry too much about it... besides if there is one less crate of mineral water on that container ship from Europe, it’s not going to impact the fuel economy or emissions of that ship. After all it’s the wasted fuel and emissions that you’re looking to cut down on right?

Besides, less people buying bottled water means people losing jobs and families going hungry and living in stress... I’d rather help people put food on the table now than waste my energies worrying about stuff that won’t make a difference.

Buying locally bottled mineral water might be a good alternative though.

My rant is over, thanks you and good night.

:)

Pete is really onto something here.

I also think you should dump the bottles into the Hudson when you finish with them. There's so much garbage floating there already, your extra bit of garbage won't really matter a bit.

Just enjoy and don't worry!

Hey yeah you could even drive to the Hudson in a gigantic SUV! Or fly there! What the hell 'eh?! Not really; I'm sorry Pete! I think you're right about the local water compromise, and though I hate to admit it I suspect you might also be right about this sort of thing having a limited impact...sigh. It makes me feel better to try tho! Is that selfish?

I am a big fan, but this topic was the one to galvanize me to register and post my opinion!

I always try to shop locally and am a firm believer in supporting craftspeople and unions, organic farms, etc. I can't afford to buy by my principles, but I do the best I can on my budget.

However, with Pellegrino water or with any premium product, you are paying for what you like. I bought your book. It was made from paper. I could have checked it out at the library, but I knew I wanted that product. I try to be mostly vegetarian, but sometimes a premium steak tastes great. On a cold night, a down comforter is the best. Not for the ducks or geese, perhaps, but for us.

No matter what you do you can't replicate the yumminess of Pellegrino water. Not supporting that company will impact the livelihoods of the workers at the mineral springs. Some of the mineral springs around the world have been famous for centuries, premium products then and now, because people like them, believe them to be healthy, and were willing to have them shipped even in the medieval times.

It's admirable to want to change the world and I long for a return to us valuing simple human connections over huge industrial supply chains, but even before Columbus decided to see what was on the other side of the world, human societies have been traveling around the world, making connections with different civilizations, selling premium products to each other, and generally doing what we do now. Our technological capacity just makes all of these activities happen much faster.

Just recycle the green glass bottles or find a local mineral spring to support! If there aren't any mineral springs in the Eastern US, then just enjoy your Pellegrino or we'll all feel guilty every time we eat chocolate, drink coffee or tea, eat a banana or mango, enjoy slipping into a bed freshly made with cotton sheets and down comforters. Everything comes from somewhere and not everyone can have a cow in the yard, pickle their own kimchi, and save every scrap. We can try as best we can, but at some point we need to enjoy as well. All the items we buy mean jobs for other people. As long as we support companies who give their workers decent working conditions and wages and safe working and living environments, there shouldn't be a problem with occasionally imbibing from a bottle or we'll have to ban wine, cheese, anything good that comes from another country!

Not selfish.

MrGreen, don't worry, be happy. :)

I have nothing against trying to make the world a better place but sometimes you have to really take a good look at whether you are aproaching it the right way. In this case *I* think the answer is no, but that's only one man's opinion.

The reason I say bottled water is not the best place to start is because your whole logic is based on the fuel and emissions generated from the TRANSPORT of the water... sorry to burst your bubble but that's probably the cleanest part of the process.

Look at it this way. How many bottles fit into a 40' x 8' x 8' container? Now multiply that by 4000 containers for a medium sized container ship and 7000 for the new mega container ships... Plus, like I mentioned earlier, if one or two of those containers carrying bottled water are taken off they will be replaced by containers full of cheap wares from China or wherever. Get the point?

So, I'm not saying pollute and screw the environment because I don't believe in that either. I'm saying if you are serious about helping the environment and reducing waste, you have to pick a better strategy. Stop using products that CAUSE excessive pollution either through use or production...

Anyhow, all points of view are good to see so disagree if you must but deep down you know I'm right. ;)

Besides, European mineral water is just so much better than tap water when you're enjoying an espresso or a nice meal.

Ciao!

If I were YOU, I'd do the Saratoga Springs option, since that combines local with mineral water, and you seem to be particular about the taste of mineral water.

However, I personally am quite happy with club soda, and always have a couple of 2 liter bottles in the fridge, which then go into the recycle bin. I'm particularly fond of the Canada Dry flavored club sodas. Unlike many of the flavored waters, there is no added salt or sweetener, just a hint of fruit flavor. The raspberry one is especially good.

I used to have a selzer bottle, but it was a pain because they didn't have the soda chargers at the local grocery, so I'd either have to drive to the mall instead of walking to the store, or order them by mail. I suppose one could argue that the environmental impact of the extra driving and shipping materials negated the benefit of less bottles.

this all sounds like having a good intention and then overthinking the situation. just get the local water and stop the imports.
then turn your attention to the big picture by supporting a group that fights for a greener planet, and make a bigger difference.

If you like mineral water, buy mineral water.

The real waste is in getting involved with elaborate plans, gadgets, and services in order to be supplied with something you don't like as much. Once you don't love your fancy water, you might as well just drink tap water, which is right there with no fuss.

Well said Joan! Good points as well, Pete.
Mr Green, it seems to me like things aren't as simple as you want them to be (a binary green/not green option). We all do the best we can to stick to our values, but even if everyone went back to farming and subsistence living things wouldn't be 'sustainable' because there isn't enough land for our now rather large population to each have their own 40 acres and a mule. Though things in the world will probably change, as they always have, people will adapt, as they always have.

My 2¢.

Graham, of course, nothing in your post at all has anything to do with anything I have said, written, or thought, so I don't know how to begin to respond except to ask you not to put words in my mouth.

where bottled water is concerned, the real issue is with NON-carbonated: we use much more of it what with cooking/coffee/tea/etc., and the myth that it is better quality than what comes out of the tap is just that, a myth. here in NY, the plastic bottles for non-carbonated beverages carry no deposit and thus have a much greater chance of ending up in a landfill. carbonated beverage bottles, on the other hand, are much more likely to be salvaged and returned by the folks who have turned it into an efficient underground economy.

so... i am inclined to agree with those who advocate satisfying their fizzy mineral water needs the way they would any other "responsible" specialty food/beverage purchase, sourcing locally as much as possible. slight variations in texture and taste aside, it is really pretty absurd to ship WATER halfway across the world. and pete, the environmental costs are real: according to the NY times, 4,000 tons of co2 are emitted from transporting water to the US from italy, france and fiji alone – equivalent to the annual emissions from 700 cars.

i also think wende is right on both counts: the gadgets and plans are likely to ammount to naught, and in a city with great tap water we are lucky to have that option available.

This is so fun!
Pellegrino is out of my budget, but on occasion for a picnic, I splurge at Trader Joe's on a nice bottle of French or Italian sparkling juice or water and of course, sparkling apple juice is so good for kids at the holidays. the 4,000 tons of co2 - is that per year, per month, what?

I think that is the real issue. Let's get and use different fuels so that this won't be a problem. How much emissions do banana imports from Venezuela make? How much emissions for coffee, tea, wool, Egyptian cotton, chocolate, etc?

Poor Japan has to import rice from California since they don't make enough to support their huge population. What should they do? Stop eating rice?

Let's support alternative fuels - there's the real issue at the heart of this matter. I've seen new biodiesel trucks - yet there are no distributors in my area (very wealthy Santa Barbara, Calif.), there are no hydrogen distributors either. Let's all get on that together and force the big companies to use the technology that are already developed, just not used because people don't like change, as evidenced by this thread. Other mineral waters don't taste like Pellegrino and if that's your favorite, then ...

"Besides, less people buying bottled water means people losing jobs and families going hungry and living in stress..."

I have been thinking about this exact thing since the whole water debate started - if we decide not to use products that are not green how will that affect the economy? - How will it affect the lives of the people who make those things? - what are we doing to provide "green" jobs for people if their "non-green" jobs disappear? - its something we need to think about I think

"we'll all feel guilty every time we eat chocolate, drink coffee or tea, eat a banana or mango, enjoy slipping into a bed freshly made with cotton sheets and down comforters. Everything comes from somewhere"

and this was the other thing the water debate got me thinking about - Can we really ever totally opt out of using "non-green" products? - its true that everything comes from somewhere and I'm not sure that bottled water is the most "non-green" item in our homes

Unless we want to live on one acre of land and only use items we generate on that piece of land then we're going to be using/buying/consuming things that are "non-green" - I totally agree that one of the main things we should be concentrating on is ecologically-sound fuels

To me, living green(er) is a lot like an approach to a diet: you can stop eating *entirely* to lose weight, or you can introduce healthier choices into how you are already eating.

But even on a diet, you can allow yourself a Snickers bar every now and then.

You'll have to excuse me Mr Green, but I'm on morphine and my thoughts may not be terribly clear. What I was trying to say is that not everyone can be 100% green all at once, and you have, in the past, attacked people (the Ikea table girl) because she (shock horror) bought an Ikea table. I know for myself, that I try to fit green products into my life whenever possible given my budget, because I want to do my part, but for those of us who don't make a ton of money it can be difficult.

Hope that makes more sense.

MrGreen's smugness is not helping the environmental movement. most people will tune right out to even the best ideas if they are presented in a rigid and self-righteous manner.

MrGreen, please visit a certified GREEN therapist.

Patrick (the other one) said exactly what I was thinking. The thing is, you ultimately should enjoy your life on this earth, because if you don't you are not going to want to work as hard on saving it.

Yet there is not way to dance around the issue, bottled water is an indulgence. It is NOT a green choice whether you buy it imported or locally, so long as it comes in a bottle it is either going to be waste or uneccesary recycling when water comes out of your tap. There is not way to really drink green bottled water unless you save the bottle and keep refilling it with water from your tap. That is the reality, it needs to be accepted that this is something that should be done in moderation. Like eating a big piece of chocolate cake.

For many people green means making sacrafices. Either out of you wallet or giving up some things you enjoy and learning to enjoy others. You need to decide how much having it means to your happiness verses how much it cost the environment and find a balance. Perhasp it should be a once a month or at the most a once a week treat (depending on what else you are doing to reduce your footprint on this earth).

Buying green products or taking up green ways of living should force companies to change, and in the end promote greener practices. Yes it may put someone out of a job somewhere, say in the imported water industry, but where every door closes another one opens. If someone's job was spilling waste from a winery into the ocean should we still buy thier product so someone can keep the job? No Way! We are still a huge amount of people on this earth, and whether products we consume are green or not there are always going to be people needed to produce them. A Green earth does not mean an earth filled of unemployed people. That's silly.

Did anyone read the article in the Times about freegans the other day? While I find that an extreme option and certainly not one I'm interested in pursuing, I thought that it made some very interesting points. One of them was that the idea of buying "green" is essentially greenwashing the idea of consumption [which sounds very obvious, but honestly hadn't occurred to me before]. When you buy green, you are still consuming, and the very act of producing and shipping these bottles (or recycling them for that matter) still creates some waste, regardless of how "green" the contents may be. The truly green option is to consume less.
I'm not advocating giving up EVERYTHING, but it certainly made me think about my own consumption habits. The fact is, we all have to make some serious changes to our consumption patterns- not just what we buy, but how much we buy- in the very near future. And while it's true that one person giving up mineral water won't make much of a difference, if everyone drinking mineral water AND soda AND the various other packaged beverages we consume everyday simply stopped consuming them, that would do a great deal. It has to start somewhere- why not with you?

Consuming less is a great start... and consuming items that have the smallest impact is another great option. Put them together and you can make a significant difference.

Nobody can be totally green, and trying to would turn your life upside down.

Being aware of your choices and their impact on the environment/economy/others is the best way to make the right decisions.

I like this topic. :)

You can have Saratoga Springs delivered. Try it, you might love it, and you'd be supporting a NY product. :)

Also, get yourself a Pur pitcher to keep in the fridge. NY water tastes like chlorine imo. The Pur filter removes that.

I would go for the soda club but that is because I go through a lot of water! It's not totally green, but the shipping of a small canister (and the original largish box and maybe the occasional replacement bottles) seems greener than other options and less $.

Let's face it, water that is carbonated, bottled, etc is a luxury good we should enjoy, so saving a bit of money with the soda club might enable you to buy other items that are local that you might not otherwise, like local soaps, oils, breads, etc. It is often impossible to eat or live totally local, but eating as local as possible as good, you just have to weight the benefits of what items you choose to get locally.