apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

The fights on this thread have been going on for a week and you are only getting 20 minutes of air time for all of the tri-state area to scream at you? There must be follow-up shows in the works. If it really gets big Oprah might even have you back on, this time as the featured attraction.

Design Dabble -- let it go!

Ha ha! I love that this debacle got you more publicity. I guess good does come out of bad.

Steve, baby, here's your chance to go mano a mano with the gilded guru himself! I'll be chortling ringside.

My first laugh of the morning.

...waiting for every single word to be picked apart and quadruple analyzed and promulgated to be the singular truth. I can't lose anymore time from work by following these threads, I really can't. It's costing me money at this point.

;-)

DD what is your problem? Jesus, why can't you stop. You now have me wondering just what is your socio-economic background. Care to divulge? let's make this a fair dialogue, put your personal business out there for all at AT to see and then maybe we can truly get this over with. I have a feeling the radio show is going to give you more fodder. You are one of those folks who once you get a bone you just can't bury it.

since Steve was banned from the site, will he be banned from the radio too?

Good can come of bad, what's good, what's bad, is endlessly debatable. It is disconceting to me that posts can be censored and deleted though I think we all agree that personal information such as addresses or identities should be protected for the sake of safety. I read this site for the pleasure of viewing other people's lives, imperfections accepted.

Children, children lets grow up here.

Steve R. was banned? He’s lucky he wasn’t sued.

A lawsuit would be so tacky.

Forbidden,

Are you just throwing words out there to see what will stick? Steve R. was posting as late as Sunday @ 4:30 p.m.—he and I had a perfectly civil exchange at that time on the Wild Wild Post thread.

My guess is that he simply lost interest. It was clear from his posting style that he wasn't on this site to give or get design advice, so I'm not particularly surprised that after that thread fizzled out, he stopped stirring the pot. You and the dabbler, on the other hand...

And as for the folks griping about free exchange of ideas and censorship and whatnot: this is *not* an unmoderated forum. There are rules, rules that are determined and enforced by the hosts of this site. That's how it is. If you don't like the rules—hell, if you don't like the hosts—then please, please, please find some other place that will cause you less consternation. We just want you to be happy. And you seem so...not.

Love,
L

Hi Henrietta

Not just tacky, but so, so middle class.

Yeah, and one other thing, Dabbler,

The implication that all posts critical of the G-Rs have been deleted is hooey. Go read the threads. Again. Carefully. Maybe your extra-favorite, super-personal and uber-snarky posts were taken down, but there are still a lot of posts up that are not kind to the G-Rs, that imply a bunch of negative, unsubstantiated things about their lives, their decisions, and their actions.

There are boundaries in civil society, and the G-Rs are allowed to have theirs.

hasta pasta,
L

Lynn,

i'm not saying anything that hasnt already been said, AND, i never said i didnt like the hosts - talk about throwing words out there! typical - you cant handle anything other than a bright shiny world - why cant you live with criticism?
why are you so defensive?

i like this site, i'm not going anywhere so move over.

Damn, missed the 1st 10 minutes of the segment when I tuned into WYNC's stream. Guess I'll have to wait for it to go up on their site... Can you link to the podcast once the segment goes up?

Just listened to the radio show. Maxwell did a fabulous job. Charming, truthful, and classy.

I've never listened to Lehrer's show but I might do it again - he seems like a wonderful host and interviewer. He was respectful and had a wonderful tone.

I wish both Maxwell and Sara-Kate even more exposure. Best of luck to all.

I believe it was Joan Rivers who once said "no publicity is bad publicity."

You're fabulous, Maxwell.

Er... "WNYC". (Sorry first cup of coffee here on the west coast...)

I just finished listenting to the show. It was interesting to say the least. Maxwell picks his words like he picks his apartment furnishings; one at a time and very carefully! I wish I could do that more often, it would keep many headaches away.

Anyway, I was really amazed that the gentleman living in Hell's Kitchen was willing to pay $1500 a month for a 180 SQ. foot place. It seemed his main reason was the doorman that came with the building.

I think many people love the idea of a doorman and could afford one at much lower rates if they just pooled their money and hired someone to stand outside their building and open doors for the people who paid them.

Does anyone know how to listen to the show after-the-fact? I just tried subscribing to the podcast, but found no audio file under the "Less is More" post.

Oh boy, I wish I could have been a fly on the wall where Alexander Cockburn waited his turn.

Is that you, Cassandra? Or is it only cassandra?

coco--

I already asked him, and he outright refused, failing to see the relevance of the request.

But, yes, Design Dabbler, let's indeed "bury the bone." I can host.

(cassandra, dahling, that one was just for you!! We middle class DO get quite randy every now and again!)

Lehrer said that all shows are archived on the site. I would imagaine you could click somewhere on his homepage you'll be able to find it. and.....I think its airs again at 1 something a.m.

My boyfriend and I will be moving in together for the first time this summer -- after reading about Maxwell's living situation, I am seriously considering looking for a studio.

My friends tell me I'm crazy but if he can do it then I don't see why I can't...right? I hope our relationship survives!

Currently I live in a 6x10 bedroom (bed is wedged between the wall and 2 bookcases...a computer is perched on top of a low 2' tall side table as well as a dresser in that space. My toolbox doubles as a chair. There is enough floor space for me to stand and twirl and that's about it) with three roommates in a 2 floor brownstone in Prospect Heights/North Park Slope -- but I LOVE my neighborhood and the rent I pay for my room is amazingly low (under 600).

Moving to a 1 bedroom would be ideal, but the cost is prohibitive in this area. And I can't bear the thought of leaving for more affordable Astoria or deeper into Brooklyn...and the buildings in Williamsburg are grey and dreary. If I'm ever to save any kind of money but stay in a desirable 'hood, it's off to a studio we go...

I am looking forward to the challenge of editing down my life to what I really need. I have a LOT of stuff and have always been a packrat and I have too many books.

I love reading this site and I am fond of the GRs and wish them well in all areas. This is my favorite site to read because I imagine it to be a pulse point on the Zeitgeist and I like to see people's homes. It gives me a chance to fire up the neurons and throw around a word like "Zeitgeist." Now I have to get back to my unintellectually challenging duties.

Forbiddy,

You're hilarious (though not nearly as funny as Steve R.)—I know you're not saying anything new!

L

Lisa-

My girlfriend and I have shared a 295 sq ft apartment in Chelsea for 2 years now (with no vacation home) ... it's absolutely doable. We love our apartment, and the neighborhood. We'd say go for the best combo of those two that you can.

-Kellen-

Just back in the office from down on Centre Street, where the show's offices are. Brian Lehrer is great. What a refreshing interviewer. My only disappointment was that we didn't get more of the "other side". Perhaps we'll get another chance.

As for listening to the show, they said they post the entire thing later in the day and they'll also send us a fully embedded link that you can listen to right off of this blog. We have pics of Brian too.

Lynn,

I'll pray for you. now let's bow our heads...

Hi Lisa,

My boyfriend is moving into my studio in a few months and I have just started planning, cleaning out etc. Though we both now it will be challenging we didn't want to give up living in the city either. Plus I have done so much work to my place, and I now love it so much, I just can't stand to leave it just yet. Just thought I would let you know you are not alone, not everyone things it is a crazy idea, and wish you luck! I'm sure you guys can make it work.

Lisa,

I'm a bookfreak, too. The last time I moved, I got rid of a 100+ books via freecycle and reselling on Amazon. It was a painful process, but necessary. I'm glad I did it—it was nice to not have to pack as many books, move as many books, or find places for as many books in our new place.

good luck!

L

Forbiddy,

Awesome. Thanks!

L

That non-reader who called in was a real prize: "I'm an idiot! Why must people have all these books?"

you're welcome, lady!

We are two of us who live on the other side of the river and live in a 1025 sq.feet place. The criticism I receive often both by strangers and friends alike with reference to our furnishings is - Is that all you have ? They think I am very frugal. Yes, I am. I buy what I need and I splurge on life's experiences.

2 questions that I ask when I pick up a product?
Do I need it ? or Do I want it?

I slip and fall when it comes to books.It is my comfort feeling - my security blanket -

My neighbour envies my some empty kitchen cabinets because I refuse to pile up. Recently my neighbour hosted her son's 6th birthday party in our place for 20 grown ups and 10 kids. The place did not feel overwhelmed !

henrietta,

hysterical! - but seriously with the books - i have a TON. of course i dont read them all but i do like the look of them. books as decoration = nice.

I amazed that people can make it in New York in any way shappe of form.
I left new York for the warmer hinterlands and don't plan on ever going back. Good Luck to those who try to abide there. You will need it.

Fritz,

I think it's quite easy actually. and if you can get over the space issue, i think living in the city can be less epensive (monetarily) than the burbs - think about it - no car payment, car insurance, gas, blah blah blah...

Thanks Kellen, Gina, Lynn and Flea -- my one question is how do you keep from driving each other crazy in a small space?! I guess we will have to do like Maxwell & Sara Kate and make the local coffee shop a place of refuge.

Flea, books are my comfort too. I don't use 80% of them but I too take comfort in knowing all that information is right there when I want it...

I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of space we find...I'm even more excited about furnishing it! The set up that seems the best is this one that I saw on designsponge:

http://designsponge.blogspot.com/2007/02/sneak-peekits-boy.html

Lisa,

I think having other places to go is key... but isn't that why we live in New York anyway? Though maybe someone else will have better advice since we are still planning the move in. Click my name for a little article I did (and please excuse the awful pics) but it might give you some ideas on way to separate spaces - I have about 400 sq ft. I love the design sponge space as well!

Lisa,

That D*S apartment is really lovely.

As for crazy-driving... much depends on your individual temperaments, but, as in all things, I think proactive and thoughtful communication is key. If both of you are on the same page about why you chose the studio option over other alternatives, then you're off to a good start.

L

Maxwell:

I'd gladly have called in to present "the other side", but right now I'm in a very special place on the west coast, and at the appointed hour was indulging in a little addiction of mine called breakfast.

As you know, I disagree with you on your policy of banning posters from this site. Your fans have countered with the intellectually hefty argument that "this is Maxwell's playground and he can kick out anybody he doesn't like." With that in mind, I feel that I must bring a sad fact to your attention: you have people here who, although they cleverly pose as supporters, are undercutting you.

It's clear now that the Oprah controversy has been good for business. Traffic has increased, radio stations have called. Had the discussion stopped, as per the wishes of your cultists, you would not have gotten your additional 20 minutes of fame. Yet, there are people who still want to stop the discussion:

Mid-C Frank: "let it go!"

coco: "what is your problem? Jesus, why can't you stop."

Lynn: "please, please, please find some other place"

I suggest, purely to help the bottom line, that we bring back Jonathan and Steve R, and discard -- in keeping with the spirit of "when you acquire something, throw something away" -- these three.

Gina the apartment is great! I love that chair and the wall colors are lovely too.
The only thing about Bryan's apartment (linked from Designsponge) is that I think I'd switch the bed with the office space. If we ever were to have a guest over then at least the sleeping area would be tucked away, like Gina's apartment.
Gina I think your apartment has now replaced Bryan's as my inspiration.
Thanks Lynn and everyone for the encouragement!

FF,

Yes! I have an implacable hostility toward superflous, meaningless junk, but books?! Of course if you live in a closet you may have to get rid of some books, but Maxwell goes overboard with this stuff in my opinion. Books are good to have around.

If you know how to read, that is.

People that love books, but need space - Zunafish.com is a website where you can list your books, and trade them with others. I find it a great way to get new books, without the new books taking over the place. One book in, one book out! There are other services out there too..thats just the one I use....

Dabbler - Your saying the same thing over and over and over, no-one is biting anymore - its old news!! Time to let it go and get back to the fun topics....

Ha, DD!

Maxwell: I've flushed out another enemy. Add clairepetrol to the list. For one thing, I have a strong suspicion that she's posting under an assumed name.

Lisa: You say

"after reading about Maxwell's living situation, I am seriously considering looking for a studio.

My friends tell me I'm crazy but if he can do it then I don't see why I can't...right?"

Living in a small place is certainly do-able, for two people or ten (just go to Bombay and see how it's done), but I don't know if Maxwell's life should be your sole inspiration. Does your family have three vacation houses that you can regularly escape to?

Despite Maxwell's example, it's quite possible to live in a small place for a limited amount of time. To paraphrase something I posted on another thread, I've done it. The space was about 240 square feet, and I lived *and* worked in it for two years, many years ago. For part of this period I had a companion, so I've some feeling for what it would be like for two to live in such small quarters. There were stresses. I wouldn't do it again, but it was a productive period for me at the time. I spent the first year reading, the second year writing. My dining table was my desk. I accommodated several hundred books.

When I tired of reading or writing, I practiced my cooking. This was where I roasted my first duck, watched my first soufflé rise and fall, baked my first cake. (It never occurred to me, though, that one might make a living selling living this way.)

My income was $500/month. The rent was $210 and utilities ran about $40. Although, I had access to family resources, they were not geographically close. I made no use of them.

DD, do you realize that most other blogs are moderated much more diligently than AT?

The people that comment here have a unique situation where they can say quite nasty things about the founders and not get immediately banned. And no, Jonathan and SteveR were not banned as can be seen by their later postings after the threads in question were pulled.

Go to any well known blog that allows comments and watch what happens when the founders ethics are questioned, baby's name ridiculed, personal appearance made fun of etc.

You seem to think that AT should be held to a different standard than other well known, successful blogs. In fact what you have here is a unique situation where almost anything goes because the founders and staff do not keep up. Which does agree with your point that this site is unorganized and, at times, chaotic.

Why do you think AT should be different in the way that comments are moderated vs. other successful blogs?

Lisa-

I'd second the importance of communication in any relationship, especially when sharing a small space. Also, creating separate spaces within the apartment is key... so you can technically be in the same room, but can do different things, in different areas designed for different activities.

We also are fortunate to have an outdoor patio which helps to expand our apartment during the warmer months- nonetheless, w/ a small apartment, it's important to live in a neighborhood where you can get out and do the things you enjoy easily and as often as possible.

(see my name for link to pics)

-Kellen-

Gina, love your apartment and the tips in your article.

DD,
I think the difference between Frank/coco/me and you/Jonathan/Steve R, is that we aren't voluntarily coming here to complain about how it isn't meeting our needs or behaving
in a way that suits us.

You, on the other hand, seem to be akin to someone who hates fish but insists on going to a fish restaurant and then insists on sitting at the fish restaurant, day after day, reading the menu over and over again, and complaining: why is there nothing but fish here? What is wrong with this place? I hate fish! I like chicken, why is there no chicken, why is there only fish, bring me my chicken, this place is horrible, the chef must be hiding chicken somewhere, can you believe this menu, it's nothing but fish, fish, fish! Everyone here is in some sort of fish cult! They just love fish! They come here and are happy with the fish! It's crazy! They keep telling me to go to a chicken restaurant and that's just, just wrong! I should be able to come to this fish restaurant and demand chicken! It's only reasonable, I'm well within my rights, I'm allowed to want chicken, I'm allowed to demand chicken, over and over again, in this fish restaurant...

No chicken here. You can't do anything about it; I can't do anything about it.

L

Is there anyone here who is *not* clear on DD's stance and opinion?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Also, regarding the banning of posters, as I understand it, quite frequently, posters will post repeatedly under several names, and the AT folks can tell by viewing IP addresses. There was a recent non-DD-driven brouhaha here a few months back that turned out to be almost entirely the work of one poster... who was also using the names of other posters in his/her tirade.

I'm sure, design dabbler, aka concerned citizen aka ???, you find that hard to believe.

Hey Lisa,

I’ve lived in a lot of small spaces (mostly with a man I adore, but also with a couple I found I could take and leave) and I’ve discovered that the single most important thing to have in a small space is light.

If there’s a choice, give up square footage in exchange for natural light. It will seem insane at the time – and people will try to talk you out of it – but for quality of life, light makes more difference to how you feel than another 100 sq. ft.

And learn how to use lighting to create different zones in an open space – that can be better than having walls. You need to be able to create different rooms with different moods so you don’t go nuts staring at the same four walls.

The other tip for sharing a small space is to create different sound spaces. Yes, you’ll go out a lot, but sometimes you’ll both be home. Be sure you plan some way of having separate spaces and doing separate things when you’re both there. Wireless headsets, so one person can watch dvds or listen to music while the other reads, is one way. But don’t forget about things like earplugs and sleep masks – anything that will allow you to create a separate space when you need to.

Let's start a thread people can go to and sign a petition requesting that Design Dabbler get thrown off the site.

Patrick,

Can i get clear on YOUR stance?

;)

Lisa,

Cassandra's point re: light is an *excellent* one.

L

Jeez - what crawled up DD's butt this morning - 5 ft. long Dungeness crabs?

And "give it a rest" IS a legitimate argument at this point. If I was with a group of friends and we were chatting about 101 things and one guy insisted, over and over and over again with rehashing the same, tired argument, the rest of us would surely be in the right to request said gentleman to kindly STFU. So please, DD, STFU.

As for small spaces, the NY Times had an article today about the rapidly rising rents in the NY market over the last year or so possibly pushing folks out of the city (or at least, quelle horreur, out of Manhattan into Brooklyn), or back into buying condos. One person they profiled had been living in a 150 sq. ft. studio for nine years.

Nine years. 150 sq. ft. Makes these 250 sq ft. units sound positively cavernous.

FF-- (which is HILARIOUS abbreviation, btw)

I do believe, at least, I've used a (relative) economy of words to get the same point across. And I don't friggin' start the topic up again on practically every single thread...

Let's start a thread people can go to and sign a petition requesting that Leslie in Adams Morgan get thrown off the site.

Patrick,

I wasnt talking about THAT stance.. geez...

Dave--
*THIS* morning?

I think you'll get more signatures for getting DD thrown off the site

Ah, FF, my apologies. I owe you a cocktail.

forget the tail.

And, btw, my official "stance" is "versatile."

I am going to weigh in for the first time on this whole issue. my opinion: as long as you're not using expletives or racist terms, your opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's. Nobody should be banned from a site simply because he/she is expressing a view different from the host's. That would be boring AND bad business. FWIW, I knew about Maxwell's family's Hamptons homes AND his parent's sprawling Upper East Side abode that appparently he also has access to (and might inherit someday) from reading a popular NYC chat board. This chat board has posters who know the G-Rs from way back in the day, and the posters thought it was rather disingenuous that Maxwell did not discuss this "access" to other spaces up front. I never discussed it further or made it an issue on this site, but I did know. And you know what? It did change my view somewhat. Some people feel that they are entitled to a full list of facts, others may not care. That's just the way it is folks. Live with it.

then we are in luck...

P2 - I assumed your official stance was "3-point".

A pity my imposter is so witless.

I hate to miss the downward spiral but must go. Don't disappoint me!

sammie--
Just to prove your point, repeat the same exact post, like, A HUNDRED more times, even on threads about bedspreads, and you'll perhaps see why people are fed up.

At least we now know DD eats duck and his souffle has a tendency to fall.

Hmmm, duck and souffles. The food of the masses!

Dave--
Only when I'm not playing offense.

And there is a "tight end/wide receiver" joke here, but *I* am not going to make it.

Does anyone know if anyone was *actually banned* from the site re: the current kerfluffle?

Lynn,

I thought you wanted to stop talking about it? what gives sweetie?

so: repeating a post 100 times, does that mean all of you people are (1) afraid that you'll eventually agree with the "offending" poster, (2) already agree that Maxwell left out some important facts or (3)just feel like you don't wnat to hear an opinion different than yours? Just wondering.

No Sammie, it means we are f**king annoyed is all.

But to answer your hopelessly inane questions:

1) If I don't agree after someone has made the exact same argument 10 times, its not bloody likely I'll somehow magically change my mind after its repeated 100 times. If anything, I'm MORE likely to disagree because I'm so bloody annoyed at that point. What is it about the Interwebs that convinces some people that they have the magical ability to change minds if only they scream loud enough?

2) I'd think that after 100 times, whatever undisclosed "facts" there are would have been fully vetted at that point and in need of no further regurgitation. But that's just me - I can remember things longer than 5 seconds.

3) I don't mind hearing different opinions at all - I welcome them. But the exact same opinion repeated 100 times over, isn't a "differing" opinion. It's pathological obstinance. And - not to *repeat* myself - bloody annoying.

No if you'll excuse me, I have to bang my head repeatedly against the wall 100 times to get a sense of what it *really* feels like.

I'll go with (4), Meredith:

No problem with hearing a different opinion, if presented civilly (and without the tone of "you all are Kool-Aid drinking idiots for believing otherwise").

And DD is hung up on some issues that have indeed been addressed and he just simply still chooses to misinterpret... turning "family owned summer rentals" into "Gosford Park" and "Howard's End."

Lynn: Long time fans of my work here will know that I set myself a little test from time to time, to make this site even more fun that it already is: I read the first couple of lines of a post and try and guess who wrote it. You'll be happy to know that I can now spot you in 20 words or less. I tried reading the rest of your long restaurant post, but I got hungry and went and ate some fish at the local KFC.

On the issue of banning: the truth is that people do get banned here. Jonathan spent his career here moving in and out of banned territory (once slipping in a post from a different IP address). I don't know his current status. I also don't know Steve R.'s status right now.

But, I agree with you that we should know: If any of the banned are reading, please write to me at
RUBanned at hotmail dot com.

God damn it Maxwell and Sarah Kate, how dare you have the nerve visit your family, love them, hang out with them. I feel so betrayed. I'm not sure I can continue taking your free design advice help for my apartment because I feel so disillusioned that you visit your parents in their sprawling apartment. I demand that anyone in life I admire confirm entirely and completely to my expectations or I will no longer worship you and put you on your pedestal. This really hurts you elistist middle class bastards.

I guess no one else in the entire Northern American continent has parents who live in a nicer place then they do that they have access to and may inherit some day.


ha,
trillium

FF,

Never said I wanted to stop talking about it, angeldrawers.

I've also never told anyone to shut up or suggested that anyone be banned from the site. I *have* suggested that folks who are unhappy with the site find another site that they might be happier with. Just to set the record straight.

So far, I don't think anyone has responded to my question; I've asked twice. Your post is a perfect example of not answering the question.

L

P.S. Please email me at RUaPraddlingTwat@hotmail dot com, if, well, you are.

P.P.S. God Bless the English - their colloquialisms are so much more pithy than ours.

Well said, Dave.

Thank you.

DD,

I'm flattered that you recognize my work!

L

Lynn: your question must've been boring. Let's ban Trillium b/c he/she used an expletive.

Lynn,

"angeldrawers", hehe, i actually gigled at that. you know, it's never to early to prepare for the parade... sounds like a good costume theme.

and to anser your question, i have no idea who was banned if they were banned and how they were banned or why they were banned. i just thought it was funny that you, of all bitty's, brought the subject up again!

Lynn--

Perhaps no one answered that question cuz they don't know the truth.

Which, granted, doesn't always stop people from posting an answer...

Dave - you never learned that lesson when you were a child did you? The one where you ignored a pest and they went away? Instead, you add fuel to a fire, by responding repeatedly to the "offending" poster and admitting that it has driven you to hitting your head against the wall. Must be tough for you in the real world.

P2,
how true, how true....

L

So DD,
Why do you think AT should not be moderated and why don't you rail against the owners of other design themed sites for being so?

Majority of people in this country are SCARED of small spaces. That is why there is a big hu-ha over the small space. - and the reason to build MC MANSIONS and a SUV

Majority of people in this country are SCARED of buying the products ONLY that they need. They are SCARED of being labelled 'poor' or "frugal". What will my neighbour say if I don't have this or that.That is why - CONSUMERISM.

Majority of people in this country are SCARED to repeat a dress at another party if the party has familiar spaces. That is why - OVERCROWDED CLOSETS.

Majority of people are SCARED of hunger that is why when there is a forecast of a snowstorm the grocery stores are STORMED in. They will fast, go on a diet, ransack grocery warehouses and they will buy food to feed themselves for months together - THAT is why big kitchens and more food and MORE OBESITY - I can back this up with a study made by DR. BRIAN of the book mindless eating.

Unfair trade practices, cheap labour - makes a america a haven for shoppers. While the american shoppers shop till they drop, the rest of the world has to cringe for utilities.

The cause for all these lies in the root of basic human motivations - greed, selfishness and manipulation.
I have not read the book apartment therepy but I am sure Maxwell may have discussed how the addiction of these behaviors and emotions cause a cluttered filled space.

Wait, I'm confused.. Design Dabbler has admitted to posting as Concerned Citizen on past posts...

Ah, Concerned Citizen: I see through your little game. You're trying to get me to think that I'm talking to myself. But you can't trick me. I'm smart that way. I know I have a large and loyal following here, people who hang on my every word. Leslie and Dave -- when he some free time from his main activity: hurting walls -- are my newest fans.

I'm making a simple point: Maxwell's running a business. It's good for him to have as large and diverse a community here as possible, not just his groupies. Banning people and censoring threads is not the way to go. It's wrong. Worse, it's bad business.

The only thing I want to know is this: Will a small apartment make my ass look too big?

that was creepy.

Dave--

Happy to be the judge of that for you.

Loving how DD went from biggest critic to now seeming to take credit for the success of the site, and Maxwell's career.

So DD, do you think you should let other people running a business like this blog the same thing?

Brownstoner.com is run by a person who just quit his Wall St job to run brownstoner full time.
He runs a brooklyn real estate blog where design thems are often discussed. I think you might find the blog and comments interesting.
However, his comments are moderated. I think you may need to frequent his site and then repeatdly tell him how to run his new business venture.

dammit P2 you beat me to it.

We have a lurker here who's posting under different of our names. Now, here's a place for Maxwell's IP detecting skills...

wait a second - DD has used "xyz" before, no?

FF--
As Maxwell has proven, three people can fit in small space.

What say you, Dave?

FF,

You say:

"i have no idea who was banned if they were banned and how they were banned or why they were banned."

So now I have to ask: what was up with your 10:16 post of this a.m., wherein you talk about "Steve" being "banned"?

Just curious.

L

yes, sounds like its time to put the "small space" mantra to a real life test!

As long as the other two people have bigger asses than mine so as to make mine look smaller in comparison.

Lynny-Lips,

i heard it from a friend who... no seriously, i thought that was already a known fact. I was not the one who made that announcement.

it is true though that many of his comments were removed from threads... isnt that basically the same thing? i mean, if you comment and then your comments are taken down, isnt that prohibiting you from making those comments?

i still love you L, even though you're a little slowzies.

So DD, How about perusing brownstoner.com and posting your opinions on how to run that site?

Or, better yet, start your own blog, and show us how the big boys are supposed to do it.

Dave,

being the very open person that i am, there would be no judgement.

Did anyone else notice that Brian kept calling Maxwell by the name "Matthew"?

I am just popping this comment in here so that you all know I am reading (I hate getting accused of being too remote).

One note I would like to add, is that our space is NOT a studio. It's two rooms and that makes a BIG difference. A bit of privacy and separation of space is important in making our apartment work.

One more note: As I said on the show, we wouldn't live in this small apartment if it weren't in a fantastic location (as evidenced by the fact that Nate Berkus' new place is right across the street!). We love and know everyone in the neighborhood.

We've, in a sense, traded space for location. That is the root issue here.

We wouldn't do it otherwise and wouldn't put up with such a tight space had the rent and location been so good. We'd gladly take a larger space at the same price on this block, but we have made it very happily work in the meantime and feel that others can too.

ok, maxwell - the ONLY piece of personal information i want to know is - can you see into nate's place across the street?

Dearest Dabbler,

I love you.

Signed,

Trillium

I really enjoyed your response to this whole discussion. I agree with you. Thanks for the laugh. I hope you put this in perspective for some people. Although I suspect as Patrick (the other one)stated some people will stick to their guns no matter the facts.

Maxwell:

Since we know you're reading this:

1) Is Steve R. IP-blocked?

2) Do you take the Jitney part way, or do you drive all the way to your retreat? I -- the truth comes out -- am a partial Hamptonite in a complicated way, and often took the Jitney in the past. If you ever noticed an attractive person of uncertain sex on the Jitney looking at you with an I'll-show-you-how-to-run-AT look, that was me.

F'Biddy,

You're the best—even if you don't know the difference between being "edited" and being "banned." I think it's a little cute that you find my attempts to separate fact from rumor to be so excruciating.

L

Lyps (lets just cut to the chase),

YOU'RE the best, and yes, i AM cute!

love,

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

Maxwell this is so true. In 1994 I found a studio with a sep. kitchen on the UE side between Park & Lexington in the historic section of Cargnegie Hill and I wouldn't trade it for anything. The only thing that bugs me is having guests. I love having people stay with me but I give them the sofa bed and set up an air mattress in the kitchen. This is really weird for someone who is visiting from suburbia.

I am looking forward listening to your interview later on. Again wishing you continued success.

Lynn: Not to worry. Maxwell will soon answer my question and we'll all know the truth.

Your BF (or should I say My BF?): Are you a man or a woman and, more importantly, which am I?

Oh, I'm not worried, DD. But thanks for thinking of me!

L

What has happened at my beloved ApartmentTherapy?

Dabbler,

Let's transcend gender identity and focus on the love...

Please steer DD to Curbed instead, since I really dislike Lockhart's persona. But--gasp!--I just don't go there because the whole blog bugs me. What a novel concept.

Aunt Honey, it's still here. It's just that every now and again we get a little run of adrenaline like this. Don't worry, DD will soon be tired (we can only hope ;-)).

As for banning: we do it rarely, but - of course - we do it. And we ban in exactly the same way I used to have to send children out of the room in school when they misbehaved. It happens when the class gets seriously sick of a student who is really pushing it and abusing the community. They are allowed back when they want to be part of the community again.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Anyone notice that Brian Lehrer and Maxwell kinda look alike?

"We've, in a sense, traded space for location. That is the root issue here."

Exactly. I was going to post that earlier, not in the context of what M is doing, because I had no clue as to his larger motivation up till now, well, maybe a clue, actually. In any case, I think when people choose a very small place to live, small not being bad, just small....one often looks real hard at the neighborhood in a much bigger way than many others would, precisely because the neighborhood at large is an extension of the home, probably in a bigger way than if one had a larger place. I think that's the crux. The neighborhood takes on increased importance to many, maybe not all, but my guess is to many. Me, I think that's smart. While I have 550 sq ft as a one bedroom, I sometimes think for a moment....hmmmmm, I could have more space only a few blocks or avenues over. But, I can't give up the building, the street, and the immediate neighborhood. 100 sq ft more will NOT make for a larger space "experience" in the apartment over extended periods of time indoors. Better to be delighted when walking out the front door.

Okay DD, quite the holyroller aren't you. Want to know, are you any better today than you were say last week when you started your rage against the G-R's. If so then congratulations, if not, sweetie I can give you a couple Zoloft I take for my hot flushes after chemotherapy.
I thought this website was geared towards getting rid of clutter in our lives but it would seem that collectively we have allowed DD et al take over our time like some kind of narcissistic pied-piper. I joined this site to learn how to decorate my space on my small budget. From time to time I got the impression that the community at large were not under budget constraints as I and truly that has not stopped me from enjoying the site, call me naive.
I am all for rent-controlled apartments being available if they were made available to someone earning $40k a year..but it ain't gonna happen. The problem lies not with rent-controlled deep-pocketed tenants staying but with a city government that allows builders to build without putting set-asides for the $40Kers. It's a city that has not built Mitchell-Lama housing in over 30 years. We have a billionaire Mayor who hasn't done anything to help with the housing situation in any of the boroughs. So DD et al, please take your platform down to City Hall send out an invite, I'll join you as I'm sure others here would. Til then let's stop the bashing, we are after all adults.

"a partial Hamptonite in a complicated way"

Hilarious.

Since you are Hamptons-familiar, DD, how's the crusade for rent control going out there?

So Maxwell permits a lot of crap that would get removed from other sites?

Do you, DD, realize how good you have it? You can criticize the founder all you like in a way that you could not on any other site? Do you not see the irony in that? you are claiming cencorship et al when it is far more prevalent in general in other blogs.

I guess Maxwell is giving you carte blanche to continue.

i'm a partial straight person in a complicated way.

So, Lynn, now we know. The School Master hath spoken.

And, Maxwell, I'm beginning to suspect that you actually enjoy all this adoration your fans pour out here, and would rather your critics went away.

I'm partial to complicated straight people.

In a bi-curious kind of way.

which brings me back to dave... and our tiny space experiment...

My gosh, I shall now cease wasting my work time on YouTube and keep my monitor pinned here for this thread is much more exciting and frankly hillarious.

I for one would move that AT open up a chat room where parties can feud in real time and the rest of us can oogle, cheer and jeer and if clever make a few wagers here or there!

*sigh*

Hmm, he might prefer praise and support to criticism, on a site that is not even his primary source of income.

What a FREAK.

Julian--

We are way ahead of you... FF and I are in negotiations into opening a dark room, where readers can "interact" in real time.

It's Hamptons-adjacent, with a view directly into Casa Berkus.

And once opened, will be my primary residence.

I know several of those... some of which are not far from the beloved west vill. sounds like a field trip!

I'll most likely be upstairs at the Duplex tonight if interested! Perhaps after trivia and a Michelob Ultra we can check out some real estate.

and by real estate...

As long as that cute model from the pajamas poll can come along.

i'll bring the helmet.

and by helmet...

perhaps Patrick you can practice your stance... 3 point.

Ummm.. I read this site to find great ideas and inspiration for my home, and really don't care about anyone else's socio-economic background. Thanks Maxwell for helping create it!

As for me, I work at a mid-sized orchestra as an fundraiser, which gives me about a school teacher's salary... I live in a one-bedroom walk-up flat, which I love... but it is small, especially with my dog or cat. That's why when I can, I take affordable trips to the beach, the mountains, etc... We all need to get away from our home sometimes... who cares if the source is your family's house on the Island, or a friend's family's house?

Let's get back to what is actually important. Creating our space!

Looks like many of us here need therapy for more than just our apartments!

jump in matt! the (water) is warm!

Oh, I see, we are all little munchkins at the Waldorf School, chewing on our pencils while Maxwell pontificates on the best way to organize our desks. I'd hope Maxwell would be disinterested enough not to pander to his slavish subjects at the expense of Design Dabbler, a gift horse to any site much less one frequented by as many bobbleheads as AT, and one who unfailingly conducts himself with the utmost decorum.

Patrick, darling! Did you ever get laid?

Having just finished reading close to 150 posts here it occurs to me that ones that were tangental and off topic were disrupted only by the welcome relief of Patrick, FF, and Dave camping it up and a handful of people who so out of it and so don't get it they actually posted something relating to the subject heading.

Maxwell:

The other day you said "at Apartment Therapy we have rules about commenting which are pretty simple: be honest and be fair, and no ad hominem attacks and no meanness. Keep to the subject. Those commenters who can't stick to the rules will get taken down or have their IP's blocked."

Which of these rules, specifically, did Steve R. violate in order to get blocked?

Today, you've added a new element to IP-blocking: "It happens when the class gets seriously sick of a student who is really pushing it and abusing the community."

Your classroom analogy is curious. Do you really see yourself as a schoolmaster and us as children? And your new criterion would allow "the class" to kick out anybody who's unpopular. I don't mind telling you this, but I am beginning to worry that some people here don't like me. What should I do to stay? Dave began a message to me this morning with "Jeez - what crawled up [your] butt this morning - 5 ft. long Dungeness crabs?" If I begin all my postings this way, am I hewing to AT-approved standards of civility?

I find the whole house-in-the-hamptons thing only confusing because I don't know what a "family house" is. I mean. I don't think homes that your parents own should be part of this discussion at all. On the other hand, if they are places where you keep your stuff I think that's a little interesting only in how it relates to this site. Getting rid of your books is one thing and I have no problem tossing magazines pretty quickly and not cluttering up my life. But what about childhood diaries? What about high school yearbooks? Books like that? Do you have all your clothes in that apartment or do you store off season stuff elsewhere? This is my problem (and would be solved by a BASEMENT in the Hamptons!). Is this part of the Cure? Maybe I should join up.

why thank you, jonathan... there's always room for one more. that is, if Patrick doesnt mind.

JonathanB: Taking the answer to the question at the end of my last posting to be a "yes", permit me to be the first to greet you with a friendly "Jeez - what crawled up your butt this morning - 5 ft. long Dungeness crabs?"

Just trying to fit in.

Henrietta--

Frequently, thank you very much.
You should try it some time.

As someone with familiarity with Waldorf schools, I can assure you that there is no pontificating on how to organize one's desk. However, there is something no less horrifying, eurythmy. Thank your lucky stars that we are indeed not Waldorf munchkins, slavish or otherwise.

regards,
trillium

DD--

Have a missed that you have been banned or edited from the site?

sometimes being banned is fun.

Whoops, "Have *I* missed..."

FF and the boys have me all flustered.

hmmm... i was hoping for more than flustered by this point.

P2: I've been busy all day with other things, so have not had a chance to greet you in the approved manner "Jeez - what crawled up your butt this morning - 5 ft. long Dungeness crabs?"

Dave has started a great thing here. I'm hoping it will catch on. Everybody on AT should start every post this way.

I vowed to myself that I wouldn’t make any more comments, or voyeuristically read through any more of the last few days worth of blogging feuds. But I just had to say, Lynn, your fish restaurant analogy rocks! A good bit of humor and wisdom all rolled into one. Thanks!

DD--
As a matter of fact...

Busy doing what? Ironing your Robin Hood tights and making Duck Confit for the Bowerty Mission?

And FF: You're behaving like Bill Clinton here, thinking with the wrong organ. There you were this morning, fresh as a 5 ft. long Dungeness crab from Dave's butt, one of the few independent voices here. Now you're all horny and unfocused on the task of bringing enlightenment to the cult.

I like the hook-up happening on the side here. Good luck, guys.

Re: location. I agree with the statement that one's neighborhood becomes an extension of one's small home. That's it exactly. For the same money, or even less, I could have a lot more house
further out in the suburbs, but I wouldn't be within easy walking distance of restaurants, shops, yoga studios, public transportation, libraries, art galleries, etc. And, in addition to all of these benefits, I really value the sense of community I have in my neighborhood. I like being able to meet someone on the spur-of-the-moment for a beer or coffee without having to travel, park and plan. I like paying attention to how the city is run. This is what works for me.

I also like the challenges that come with living in a small space ... how to make more with less. How to store things efficiently. How to make better use of my floor plan and design decisions.

All of these reasons are what bring me to AT. Small is cool.

Leslie

P.S. DD is the Devil.

Well, now we're getting somewhere. DD is now at least beating a dead crab.

P2: Jackie (original) will still want it shot.

Leslie, Leslie: How did you guess?

Harley,

Aw, shucks—thanks...

L

Just a suggestion: Why not edit repetitious posts, rather than seditious ones? If an individual (Steve R, or anyone else) has made the same statement, more or less, more than twice, subsequent posts would be deleted. Some reading comprehension woould be required, but it would allow the dissenters to remain, and the others to maintain their sanity. Potentially, it would also apply to the "fans" of the site, who also become repetitious.

All blogs are edited, and cutting text that is mildly repetitious is one of the tasks of an editor. I think editing, rather than schoolteachering, should be the paradigm here.

I realize that soome will say it might be difficult to identify what's repetitious and what isn't, but then again, I don't think it would be that difficult.

Here's the kind of thread you would like DD.
Judicious use of the C word goes unedited.
Utopia methinks.
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/02/27/ask_curbed_my_luxury_rental_sucks_what_to_do.php

Oh the irony

DD, i know... the day is long and i'm longer.

FF: I can always accommodate one more.

DD: That's what he promised me, but when dropped his trousers, it turned out to be about one tenth the size.

P2: The thought of DD in tights is really, really scary. Also he doesn't beat a dead crab; he is a dead crab.

M: And on a more serious note, from the practical point of view that would all but impossible and the attempt would probably drive everyone up the wall in general and Maxwell to his silver hammer in particular.

Ok, maybe I do owe an apology. I just became so carried away with everything.

I apologize to everyone for my nastiness. I particularly apologize to Maxwell, Sara Kate, and P2. I'm embarrassed about my crass behavior.

I meant to just play devil's advocate and I let it go too far. So sorry, I will try to curb myself in the future.

Ah, I was wondering when our lurker (see earlier in this thread) would realize that there was limited percentage in faking Henrietta or xyz or CC and would try to be me.

I'll just have to sign off as maxwell from now on.

P2 - Maybe if he beat some other type of meat more frequently from time to time, he'd be a little less uptight.

But what do I know, I'm exclusively a fish guy myself.

And with that - take my wife, please.

If this hookup actually happens, I trust someone will post the Flicker link tomorrow.

If this hookup happens, I hope the involved parties have the good sense to make it relevant to AT and make sure they wear Marimekko print boxer shorts.

Ah, Dave, how's the wall?

Ok, that's disgusting Dave. You're giving this guy what he wants by lowering yourself to that - I don't think its necessary - just my opinion and so I'll just state it once, but the fish reference is annoying to women. Don't be DD or Steve R or Stephen.

One of the above called P2 a "bitter queen". That was disgusting. This is disgusting. Enough disgusting. It isn't funny, its personally offensive.

And if by any chance, "Dave" was signed by DD as a joke, as apparetly he's done before, then DD is even more disgusting that I thought. If its not DD, then I take back the "disgusting" but I stick with the "annoying".

oh lighten up jackie. at least your not dead.

Jackie (the original one): You've been on this site a long time. I've been on this site a while. You've seen enough of my postings to know how I express myself. It's offensive that you'd think I'd stoop to Dave's coarseness.

I'm coarse, I'm crass and I'll never apologize for it. What happened to New Yorkers that they've gotten taken over my thin skinned ninnies?

However, in the interest of not offending the tender sensitivities of the easily- and faux-offended, I will endeavour in the future to save my blue material for the 10 o'clock show.

DD--
re: "It's offensive that you'd think I'd stoop to Dave's coarseness."

So what, exactly, were you doing when adopting the Dungen-ass crab greeting? Parody or satire?

I think he was looking for some melted butter.

I've got some right here!

perhaps he thought it was a learned quote?

Jackie learned a new word today!

P2: I was making a point. A number of posters here -- you included -- get away with offensive personal comments and invective simply because they toe the line of Great Schoolmaster Maxwell. They can be as uncivil as they like, and hardly anybody calls them on it. The moment you criticize Maxwell, though, every aspect of what you say gets jumped on: the tone, the manner, the language -- everything is fair game, except the content.

Take Jackie (original): In her mind Steve R., stephen and I are one. We're some sort of monolithic enemy. Yet, we're very different people, saying related but different things, in very different ways. If she, or anybody else, is going to disagree with any one of us, they should at least do us the courtesy of attempting to understand what we are saying.

DD--

And I would say EXACTLY the same thing to you:
"If she, or anybody else, is going to disagree with any one of us, they should at least do us the courtesy of attempting to understand what we are saying."

Have you extended that same courtesy to Maxwell? Have you said, "Some people went too far, but the questions remain?" Have you *really* read ANYTHING that anyone has addressed to you? Not that I've seen.

More practicing, less preaching, and I'll be happy to take a sip of YOUR Kool-Aid.

Sorry but you have exhibited the absolute essence of hypocrisy every step of the way on this one.

As I said 8000 posts ago -- LET IT GO!

As Scarlett O'Hara said, tomorrow's another day --let's all promise to talk about Tara, not the war between the states.

Night y'all!

JonathanB: A learned quote from Dave. Thank you.

I'm beginning to worry, though, that you're not sympathetic to my view that people ought not to be banned by Schoolmaster Maxwell simply "when the class gets seriously sick of a student". What happened to the guy who once saw the point of xyz's satire? Do you want AT to institute caning as well?

DD--
I thought "virtual caning" was what you are already doing.

It's repetitive, and a huge pain in the ass, so it *feels* like caning...

the point is - am i going to get anything out of this or what???

re: one's neighborhood becomes an extension of one's small home.

Who knows if it's true or not, but I remember reading that the rise of cafes in Paris came about in the late 19th c because people had so little living space they needed to get out...

or something like that. Anyway I think about it a lot because it feels true.

Also, once in the Brooklyn Botanical garden with my 4 yr old niece I told her it was my backyard and she totally believed me.

My big problem though is in cafes in my neighborhood I was overhearing the conversations of so many horrible yuppie couples I had to stop going out.

DD is treating us to Crab Souffle, I think.

but i want the chicken.

P2: You have me here. If I don't respond to your challenge above, you'll say "see, you're not trying to understand what Maxwell is saying." If I do explain my position all over again, you (and every coco, Dave and Jackie on this site) will say "there you go again."

So, let me just say, that, yes, I have carefully read what Maxwell and Sara Kate had to say. I responded by applauding their grace and, then, raised questions that still troubled me. Yesterday those questions expanded into the new issue of the Oprah thread being censored and Steve R. banned. If you really think that my manner was not civil, there's nothing I can say now that will convince you otherwise.

Part of the problem is that you've allowed yourself to form some sort of impressionistic blur of my point of view, and are railing against that. Here's an example:

I said this in my response to Maxwell: I know that you are not rolling in money, and never thought that you were, but you do have resources that many people don't.

In your mind this has become: DD is hung up on some issues that have indeed been addressed and he just simply still chooses to misinterpret... turning "family owned summer rentals" into "Gosford Park" and "Howard's End."

Underneath the sexual jokiness you're a serious man with serious design talent and you were kind and generous to me when I first started posting on AT. But I can't discuss things with you if when I say "X", you rail against "Y".

---

To Lynn and others who were not sure whether to believe the wild stories of people being banned here: do you now believe that banning happens, and does Maxwell's school master explanation satisfy you?

so, is AT only for the mid-century design crowd? I don't think I've seen one space done with traditional furnishings. is there another site that I can go to

And Jackie (original): I'm waiting for your response. You said "DD is even more disgusting tha[n] I thought", then misattributed a Dave vulgarity to me. I do feel that you must offer me an example of something "disgusting" that I've said, or an apology.

The AT regulars (and, despite your protestations, I count you among them) have had a free ride for too long. Any irresponsible charge, any coarseness is OK from them. Any transgression from the critics, however tiny, is pounced on by people who are immediately shocked, shocked.

DD--
Puh-lease. You are soooo NOT an authority on matching X to Y in a careful and measured manner.

Pull selective quotes all you want... I'm going by net effect, and you are practicing revisionist history... pulling sound bites to suit you, the same way Oprah's producers did.

And for the record, you started to lose me when you tiraded in a similar manner under the alternate moniker of Concerned Citizen months ago. It takes a LOT to raise my ire here, and you did, and continue to do so.

And, believe it or not, until YESTERDAY, my issue was not even really with YOU... it was with people tossing around private pictures, babyname insults, private address info, and general creepy behavior. Oh yeah, and LOVELY nicknames like "bitter queen."

But DEAR GOD MAN...!

And if you EVER choose to just let horse be laid to rest, I will HAPPILY get back to the business of design: the true love of my life, and the reason I am here.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go get ready for my blind date with FF.

God -- please please please make me a gay man in my next life! I am missing out on too much fun!

Amen to THAT.

remember to bring your helmet!

Wild!!! Thanks for the tip!

Wow. As a longtime reader of AT and first time poster I have to say:

y'all have way to much energy to expend on sniping at each other about inter-blog-commenting-politics and other people's rent situations.

Why not go argue on some other blog about heated stuff that actually MATTERS like U.S. politics or abortion or unrest in Nepal or genocide in Darfur?

Get a grip, all of you! Geez...this is a website about managing life in a small apartment for God's sake.This isn't the second coming or anything; it's about interior design.

Never perusing the comment section ever, ever again!!

Henrietta: As DD said about me, and I quote: "If she, or anybody else, is going to disagree with any one of us, they should at least do us the courtesy of attempting to understand what we are saying." I do understand what DD is saying I just don't agree. Apparently, however, you quickly commented without attempting to understand what I was saying and all that was necessary was that you state disagreement. So therefore, stick it. I learned every word in the English language long before you were a seed in your parent's agenda. That doesn't make them pleasant. And it doesn't make me some bore. Further, if you accept that as an ok reference to women then that's your right. Enjoy. I don't like the reference. I made my complaint. I stated my opinion and that is that - however, you should meet me before you assume I'm someone who just learned a new word.

DD: I believe I said that if it wasn't you who used "fish" offensively under Dave's name that I would take back my comment of "offensive" directed toward you, and I do that in fair play. But I can still disagree with the rest of your stuff and I do, as I do your other references to me, but I'm not going to waste time after this post to argue them. Not because of any loyalty to Maxwell, but simply because I don't agree with your assessment of the situation. No one really has to agree with anyone else. It doesn't matter, IMO.

Dave: You don't have to apologize and I don't have to like it. That's reality.

Lighten up? Ha....you should only know....

DD:

Ok, this one was funny

"P2: Jackie (original) will still want it shot."

not true, but funny.

Jackie has been affronted ever since I first started visiting this site long ago. It's always the same story: some snake in the garden brings about paradise lost. Oh how she misses the golden age when she could bask in Maxwell's largesse and the forced bonhomie of like-minded people, and post about herself and her curtains ad infinitum, uninterrupted by rude New Yorkers who make all kinds of mean jokes and ask all kinds of unsettling questions.

Whatever would Jackie do if there were not some bad guy ruining her fun on AT. Why it's enough to drive a girl to ad hominem attacks (one might even call it "abuse") on perfectly courteous members of the community.

P.S. Now that you, Jackie, have posted in the interim: you know that stuff I said about learning a new word? I didn't mean "fish".

DD, I find it almost humorous that you have me as a "Maxwell groupie." Honey, I haven't been a groupie since oh my god...never. I'm way too old for that now so hey try to read my messages in the vein they are written, stop projecting. So you think Maxwell is robbing ONE homeless person of a crib, well I've got news for you. There are a whole lot more out there.

Although, the Mayor just announced he is closing the largest homeless shelter in NYC, seems to me he's telling us that homelessness is a thing of the pass, so all the Maxwells of NYC are off the hook now, right?

B-T-W, have you done a reno lately? bought any furniture, appliances, redecorated a room? In all sincerity I do want to see your space?

I am not here to besmirch you cause hell, I don't know you but seriously can you just tell me..is the end result of loving mid-century design small mindedness?

Can we just go back to talking design? It seems to me that everyone who has been posting are very talented and creative except myself of course. It is why I came to this site and it is why I want to continue doing so. I wanna learn how to use colour, find the deals, learn how to streamline my closet..and don't suggest I go to my parents in the Hamptons.

As someone who never posts, could y'all just shut up! I read this site for ideas on how to live in my crappy rr apartment, not pissy crap about other people's lifestyles.

Can we get back to the whole point of the site now?

P.S. if I want a lesson in political activism then I'll go to MoveOn or one of the grassroots organizations out there.

I second that Lurkey. What these lonely people need is an online chatroom. Utter nonsense

The horse is now glue.

Fritz, you are a hypocrite. You were just cruel to another poster

Why don't you unhappy customers resort to the many, many threads elsewhere on this site devoted exclusively to questions of design? Is it simply that you cannot find the exit?

Sammie --

I have a different take on the knowledge. I live on the other coast. I know nothing personally of the G-Rs outside of what I've read in the blog over some time now. I knew about the Hampton house for weekend get aways and was able to deduce that folks don't do a major renovation on something they don't own for 20K if they’re just "getting by." I assumed there was some financial safety net that didn’t come just from their day jobs.

I do not feel there was any lack of being fully informed. Now, if they were living in a 5,000 ft. McMansion 24/7/365 I would’ve felt duped.

I never saw the Oprah show, so what I’ve gleaned about it is from comments here. It seems Maxwell may have said something about living in 265 feet for 365days per year. I agree if that’s the case, it’s a regrettable. I have no idea what else Maxwell may have said to be so incredibly misleading. (Though it does sound like he may have crumbed a little on other people’s neighborhood – which is a shame). And some concerns people brought up were legitimate, but to keep going on about it?

If people come to this blog and find useful information for them, I don’t see how G-R’s financial situation either enhances or diminishes that.

Coco there was no cruelty only truth.
I seconded the opinion of the prior posted .

There was no long drawn out argument.
Look again.
Someone solicits advice and they are told to go back to the drawing board...Then why did they ask in the first place?

DD: I think I provided a learned quote from George Orwell on the subject of censorship and freedom of the press with which I agree. You may wish to consider reading posts before you post replies. You may also wish to consider whether it is better for people to wonder why you do not post than why you do.

Coco: News to me. I though that AT wis about organization and space planning and not about particular styles of furniture.

MissB: And risk violating Homeland Security Legislations? You must be joking.

i would like to hear about design danglers latest projects too.

Mr. Ed - That is just too funny. I'm gonna remember that line for the future.

DD,

You're so hot when you're tenacious.

Love,

DD,

You queried: "To Lynn and others who were not sure whether to believe the wild stories of people being banned here: do you now believe that banning happens, and does Maxwell's school master explanation satisfy you?"

I think most of us who have been reading the site for a while know that people have, in the past, been banned from AT.

So, to clarify: My question wasn't whether banning had *ever* happened. My question—if you'll kindly reference my earlier posts—was whether banning had happened *in response to the latest spasm of posting re: Oprah* as you—and others—had implied.

My question wasn't asked of Maxwell, it was asked of those who started the rumor. So, please, folks, give me an answer: Why are you forwarding the idea that Steve R. is banned as though it is fact?

And, DD, before you start with your rhetorical shenanigans, let me just say that I don't see a problem with Maxwell banning anyone from this site for whatever reason he likes; it's his site. If at some point I don't like the way the site is being moderated, I'll stop coming here.

Cheers,

L

I love talking to myself. The sound of my own voice makes me positively tumescent.

tu·mes·cent
1.swelling; slightly tumid.
2.exhibiting or affected with many ideas or emotions; teeming.
3.pompous and pretentious, esp. in the use of language; bombastic.

So I'm guessin' he meant definition #3. With a dash of #2.

My friend’s wife wants to open a little trinket shop. He asks me what I think. I tell him to find a better job because someone’s going to have to pay to keep the shop stocked with trinkets. Then I read this thread after months of only looking at pictures and pick up that some people are bent.

And I see the point. This is a blog after all, which readers tend to think of as a kind of internet version of a memoir. And when it comes to memoir (as we learned from James Frey’s Oprah incident) people want full f’ing disclosure from their memoirist. Now I’m a fiction person myself, so I don’t feel this compulsive need for truth of fact (just truth of feelings), but still, when you’re putting yourself out there as being true and are giving lessons based on your true experiences, people have a right to know all the relevant truth. That’s part of the unwritten contract you enter into as the writer (or blogger or whatever).

So the people who run this site, I guess you can call them hypocrites if they are in fact being untruthful with their truthfulness (and banning those who are zealous in their criticism of this untruthfulness). But don’t forget that it’s hard maybe to talk about pretty little things all day and to remember that the big things orbiting those pretty little things are important too and worth talking about, or that people like sites about pretty little things and that maybe the authors figure that with all the time we already spend worrying about those big orbiting things (including cash, class and status) that maybe it’s enough to have a site where people can look at pretty pictures, read a little copy, pick up an idea here and there, self-delude if necessary and forget the big stuff for a bit. That’s how I look at it. Now I’m off to perezhilton for a peek at the real news before calling it a night.

Northernsong: Beautifully expressed. The best post of the prior 500 in multiple threads. You put the coarseness of some prior posters of whatever persuasion (yes, I see the pun!) to shame.

DD Flattering, of course, that one who reads Orwell can't be all bad, but the pedant in me would suggest you read Roland Barthes and re-read Orwell's 1984 before you commit yourself to that sort of assertion.

Northernsong: Like your screenname. However, I'm not defending Frey -- a minor talent if there ever were one -- nor addressing the larger issues of Oprah's relationships with living authors -- but Frey is not alone in confusing a memoir with a roman a clef (what he actually wrote).

what a night!

"how possible it is to get by, start a business, etc. in NYC without the leg-up of rent control/stabilization, help from families, a week-end home..."

and you'd be able to answer that question how exactly??

Shouldn't they be asking this question of someone who has got by and started a business without those things...

Oh and can I be a gay man too!!!

Roman a clef is my second favorite literary term. Deus ex machina is my first favorite, though in modern times it's probably better to call it money ex machina. How do you say money in latin?

Huh. It looks like FF's apostasy paid off. There's no justice!

Violetsrose -

Me too! Me too!

DD,

Finally! Thank you. I'm going to take you on your word (I hope I can do that—can I?) re: Steve R.'s e-mail, though it seems strange that he didn't take the opportunity to release some bile re: the G-Rs or mention how much he misses me.

northernsong,
I liked your post as well, though I peronally have never once mistaken this site for a memoir. Frey's book was remarkable because it was published by a mainstream publishing house, where ostensibly a fact-checker or two would have confimed his story before it was cleared for publication.

Blogs, on the other hand...

L

Northernsong, I hope you will stick around.
Design Dabbler, I have an odd feeling that Forbidden Fruit is the long lost triplet of DD and CC. Is he making a trap for P2?
P2, glad you are evident and hope you are careful with yourself.
Fans of words, I am loving "Third Class Superhero" by Charles Yu. Could not get engrossed in the Fry book at all. Now I must set about my day involving building products and sadly, my contribution to planet destruction.

Hi - Design Dabbler - I am still a great fan of your too. I really agree with most of the more serious points that you've said here. Though you do go on a bit. That's alright to say between friends isn't it?

Its totally hilarious how outraged people are getting over this. I think on a blog like this you should have the right to say what you think and believe. There seems to be a little core of people trying to cut down everyone else who doesn't want to just say "Gee how cute" or "You are truly the godhead" on every post.

And talking of those who want to shut the other commenters down - why are those commenters not acceptable and yet we have to listen to your peurile, weak and relentess sexual inneundo.

I want more commenters like NorthernLight and less GrahamNortonLite.

Um, people, what happened to that nice young thing, Lisa, who was considering moving into a studio with her boyfriend?

You know, the one who came here looking for design-chat, not misinformation, tired sexual innuendo, and the rants of ignorant fools who like to harp on about their rights, but aren't so clear on their responsibilities?

Did you chase her away?

Would you little Waldorf-wannabes please stand in the corner and think about that now?

It's great that Design Dabbler provided a channel through which Steve R. could confirm whether or not he'd been banned from AT.

Bravo!

DD - You really are the Mallard Filmore of this thread. Humorlessness that has convinced itself that it has a sense of humor.

Cassandra--

You left out "tired pretentious American-slamming" from your list of things she *didn't* come here for.

She's reading the threads that are about the things she's interested in. That's the beauty of this system... lots to choose from, lots to ignore if you choose to.

This thread is devoted to Maxwell's appearance on the Brian Lehrer show yesterday, a windfall propelled by the controversy over Maxwell's intentions for his Village apartment.

Lisa could happily have discussed her situation in the zillion other threads devoted to apartment therapy.

You may now chill out.

P2 beat me to the punch.

oiy vey.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. No more AT for me!

It's a little like Revolutionary Road isn't it, so seemingly smooth on the surface, all sign of conflict washed over with beautiful pictures. Funny the focus on mid-century modern given the somewhat mid-century views on quieting critics.

The AT site has been a helpful source for
my studio co-op, but I do think
the gillingham-ryans should be more
up front about the family homes and the
escape they provide -- why would you not be?

full disclosure is the
only way to keep your credibility.