apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I love these blues, but I am looking for a deep navyish blue for a bedroom. The bedroom is quite large with vaulted ceilings and white trim. What do you all think, too much? I got the idea from the November 05 issue of Domino magazine (pg 134/135). Does anyone have a paint color that would work that you have possibly used?

I know Michael said he prefers dark colors in small rooms. I hope my look will be ok.

I apologize, I meant Mark (not Michael) prefers dark colors in small rooms.

i feel like navy is a really, really extreme color to paint an entire room. maybe that's a good thing. but i've found that while very deep colors look great on chips, they can have a really different effect on a wall. i often make the mistake of falling in love with an ultrasaturated or really dark color when flipping through my deck, and then tape the chip onto a wall and realize that it's just too much.

re: "Whenever someone asks me to paint a room powder blue... I roll my eyes heavenward and cluck at the lack of creativity."

Hmmmm. Wonder why much of the general public finds design professionals to be pretentious and intimidating?

re: Painting an entire room navy.
I too LOVE dark colors, in large OR small rooms. The darkness can be tempered with white trim and light or white-painted woods, or you can totally run with the darkness. But I'm a total cave-lover, so it might not be the ticket for all. Don't judge a color on a swatch. And don't judge an empty painted room til you get your stuff back in.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!
I had been stuck trying to figure out what to do with a wood door with leaded glass inserts leading from the kitchen to the outside. [The kitchen is tradition, done in off-whites with a white marble counter top.] You gave me the idea to paint the door an aqua-ish blue that would match the border color on some antique French Porcelain platters that I have hung on the wall. I mixed together equal parts Benjamin Moore HC-138 [Covington Blue) and 2052-40 [Spa Blue].

Result: the PERFECT color and accent.

So it's going to be a paint-the-door weekend

What if you ran the navy on one wall and the rest a lighter blue or white? i think though if you have a lot of light, the dark would work just fine.

We used Ralph Lauren's "Cardiff Blue" -- a very dark, saturated navy blue, almost black -- in our white-tiled bathroom and it looks great. Provided you have good lighting, I think navy can be very dramatic and beautiful.

And I second the comment re: pretentious and annoying and light blue. A little respect for the client's wishes, please!

Love dark blue in a large room - I just redid our bedroom in Downpour Blue (BM) - it works perfectly with the headboard which I made from an old door which I padded and wrapped in faux leather and all the dark wood trim, moldings, decorative "pineapples" and the fireplace surround which has 4 shades of slim glass tiles going from dark to light greeny brown. Our bedroom is on the garden floor, but it's a "night" room (inspired by Sarah Richerdsons Night Cap Room)- very gentleman's room. To offset the dark shades, I've used silver as an accent (bedside lamps, night tables, etc.) - and my next task is to construct a shade for the ugly pendant light using lots of white feather boas a la Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz, it will hopefully be over the top but pop...

Thanks for all the comments so far. Fortunetely, I do have good lighting!

I just wanted to echo Patrick Too, regarding the trim and the waiting until the furniture is back in. I just painted our dining room SW's "Mesmerize," a dark purplish blue. I hated it at first--it looked so dark and overbearing--but once we got the furniture in, it looks gorgeous. it looks great with wood, with white, and with black or red accents. We have double french doors in there too, though--otherwise, I'd probably have chosen a lighter color. Lots of natural light makes a difference.

If you're doing a large room in a dark color, think about abandoning flat paint for eggshell or semi-gloss. The shinier paint reflects light rather than absorbing it.

Be prepared to improve your lighting. In a light-colored room, it's easy to get away with mediocre lighting design because you can SEE, and that'll do for the time being. A dark-dark-dark room demands more and better-placed light.

A dark room is also an excellent place for a few strategically placed mirrors and some shiny or transparent accessories.

But shinier paint in a dark color will really amplify any wall imperfections...

I also think art looks AMAZING on dark walls. My inspiration for painting my entry way "Loam" (Pratt & Lambert #2105) actually came from seeing an Egyptian exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum.

But my apartment is primarily a night-time space, another consideration when considering a dark color.

I also wanted the dark color to "compress" the entry way, so the rest of the apartment would visually expand.

Whoops, that should be #2015.

Re: Loam by Pratt & Lambert
Love love love that color. Painted my living room that color -looks great with everything.

i love the installation choices at the Brooklyn Museum on the whole -- very inspirational. is Loam a dark purply-brown color, or am i channelling the Met's egyptian collection, or Brooklyn's before their renovations?

i do, however, HATE the way the BMA has their African Art collection installed. the curatorial choices are weird, the cards are offensive, the lighting is blah, and i believe the walls are painted a lovely shade of babyshit brown. way to go, subconscious racism!

My favorite two parts of that museum, though, are the American hall where furniture, craft, and decorative arts are combined with high art of the corresponding period, and the gallery on the second floor which displays european painting and also discusses framing.

That's very close to the color I just used to paint my kitchen stool and the color the opoponax used to paint her kitchen (well, on my monitor it does). I used Benny Moore Blue Spa from sample pots and every time I catch a glimpse of it against my red curtains, I sigh. The stool is supposed to be in the kitchen but I might have to paint something else that color to put in that area.

Everyone who painted their rooms in those great dark colors should post pictures, I loved your descriptions. You rarely see the dark rooms represented in magazines anymore. Please do.

funny, i was looking at these earlier at work, and they looked less green and much darker than they do on my at-home monitor. so, yeah. before i didn't make any comparison to my kitchen, but now i see that there is a similarity.

which underscores my earlier point about the difference between a chip and your wall. i looked at really dark grey-blues and forest greens for that space, and on the chip i really liked them, but when i put the chips on the walls to help visualize (which i do before blowing money on a sample) they were just too, too dark. whereas the chip that eventually got picked i thought was sort of under-the-sea and overly pastel.

if you want an idea of what french blues will look like on an interior (a small dingy brooklyn kitchen, to be exact), click the link in my name below.

i love those blues. my bedroom was that color when i was a child. love it!

i also adore that car in the first picture. anyone know what it is? i've never seen anything like it. (i realize it's off-topic, i apologize. but it's so cute!)

Hey Patrick (the other one). It's Holly. You said, "Hmmmm. Wonder why much of the general public finds design professionals to be pretentious and intimidating?"

This is a little off topic, but I'd like to comment on this. I totally get what you're saying, and I thought it over, and here's my thoughts on it...

I don't think Mark is an Interior Designer (from what I've read, correct me if I'm wrong), he's an artist specializing in decorative painting - murals, etc. As such, he looks at color all day long, it's his 'thing'. Ask him to hand draft a floor plan or to recite building codes, he may fall short. Ask him for the perfect shade of peacock blue, and he'll rock it out. Again, it's his speciality and from what I've seen, he's pretty darn good at it.

Compare that to an engineer or a doctor, a specialist of sorts - they may come across as pretentious and intimidating, but we still need them and look to them for advice because they're in it all day - they can often give the best advice. I don't think he meant to sound pretentious. It's the written word, we all come across like know-it-alls on here at times. In person, if he'd have stated that, it would have been funny. Plus, think of the context. I'm guessing he deals with a lot of clients who fear color, so they're graduating from beige to blue, thinking they are totally cutting edge now, so their powder blue request (to them) is just so tres chic. To Mark, a pro, it's like baby food compared to steak. He doesn't get it. He's a bold color man.

I just wanted to comment to your post because I'm an Interior Design Consultant and I'm not a snob by an means. :) But, when you're constantly looking at color and trust me, artists and designers make a lot of mistakes on the path to becoming color mavens, you do tend to have a slight edge compared to someone that isn't absorbed in the perfect paint color all day, 365 days a year. That doesn't mean designers and artists are better PEOPLE, they are just more savvy than those that haven't painted 500+ rooms in the past 5 years.

I'm thinking that sometimes we get intimidated by designers because decor is such a personal thing to us and most of us think we don't really need one, it's something 'anyone' can do. What do you guys think?

When it comes to medicine, we'll take whatever the doctor orders to be well because we can't throw together heart medication in our kitchen. We don't care if the doctor is a snob, he'll remedy the situation and send us on our way. With a designer/artist, etc. we tend to arch our backs because again, when someone tells us our color choice isn't a good one, ouch - it stings. We thought we knew better. Then, we slap the mustard yellow on the walls and cry for a week.

In the end, I think that most designers, even the extreme scarf waving snobs, have a right to stick to their design sense and be proud of that and even shake their tail feathers a bit about it. I am attrached to people who have confidence in their abilities (as long as they are good at it and aren't rude, being a bit snobby is fine by me).

Honestly, interior design is a very hard profession and because people like you and others at AT are so savvy and know design so well, it is even more of a challenge for designers to practice today than say, 20 years ago before design blogs, DIY magazines, and HGTV.

Anyone care to comment on this? I'm interested in seeing what you have to say.

Holly

"Whenever someone asks me to paint a room powder blue (or what I call Butterfield-8 blue) I roll my eyes heavenward and cluck at the lack of creativity."

It doesn't sound like he's a designer to me - it sounds like he's a painter and decorator!!

If a client asks you what colour you think would look good in their room then you've got free rein to give your opinion of colours

If someone hires you to paint their wall and chooses pale blue then its a bit rude to criticise their colour choice

Its nothing like going to a doctor - its more like going to the grocery store and having the check-out person criticise your choice of foodstuffs!

Colour choices are personal and there are NO wrong choices - if its what you like then its right for you no matter what anyone else thinks

Besides, how does he know that the pale blue is a sign of "lack of creativity"? - they may be furnishing the room with something that makes that pale blue the most exciting colour choice ever!

Other Patrick, I, too, am a cave lover. And, as fate would have it, I now have a cave of a livingroom. You're the only other person I've so to speak met who thinks in terms of going all dark. But how does one do this without ending up sepulchral? Any ideas?

au

i think the difference here is whether he thinks it, or whether he says it. i have to admit that, as someone who is interested in these things (and as someone who is at the beginning of a design career), i have attitudes sort of similar to Mark's, especially as regards color-phobes and their "adventurous" choices.

but would i actually roll my eyes heavenward and cluck? probably not. because it's not really my place at this point, and even if i were an Interior Designer weighing in with my professional opinion i would couch it in much more palatable terms.

but would i think it? of course i would. same way i internally roll my eyes at friends who order well-done steaks at nice restaurants. am i going to give them a stern talking-to about quality meat and the ravages of high temperatures on texture and taste? of course not. but i can think whatever i want.

i have to agree with decor8 holly. even though artistic people can be pretentious and snooty, that attitude steams from dealing with people who think they know how to do your job better than you do even though you're the specialist with the training and experience (i'm a graphic designer so i get this stuff everyday). in the artistic fields, there's more personal taste involved so it tends to be more subjective than something like medicine. so often you end up compromising a lot with the client to give them what they think they want but might not be the best overall visual solution because they can't take that bold a step. i'm noticing that being slightly pretentious and intimidating helps push the client into seeing how a more bold design would work better for them....but i'm under 5' and look like i'm in high school so i haven't gotten that "intimidating" thing down yet. anyway, point of ramble is decor8 holly has good and valid points. of course, you can't be a complete and total ass.

It's interesting that something that is so popular--powder blue--is so repugnant to a professional painter. I have to think it's just boredom from using many of the same shades (plus personal preference) but the fact is, the CLIENT has to live there, not the painter/designer/decorator.

What's funny is that I'm sure that someone who uses unusual colors, etc, probably has SOME area of his/her life where he or she would be considered boring by an expert in other fields--a love for khakis, the Gap, Banana Republic, non-exotic food, chick lit or pulp murder mysteries, top 40 music, etc.

So, basically, almost everyone is "boring" in some way, and you can't really point fingers.

I don't have a favorite color, per se, but there's a reason blue is so many people's favorite color. I don't think Mark was serious with the clucking and all that, but if that's what the client wants, then that's what the client will be happy with.

And, Holly, I always enjoy your posts, but I'm not sure the doctor/decorator analogy totally pans out. A doctor cures you. You get well or you don't, and that's not really subjective most of the time. A decorator has to work with client preferences, and those are subjective. The decorator can think the job is fabulous and the client can hate it, and vice versa.

This is tiresome - colour is subjective. The average person (and I say that loosely) would be boggled to know that there are 100's of "whites". Granted the professional has the advantage of working everyday with the colour wheel/chart/etc, but I imagine that when a client/someone says powder blue it could also be from a feeling that they have about the color and not because it's popular (and therefore common, as implied).

Personally I think a POWDER BLUE semi-gloss or Venetian plastered ceiling would look fab with a giant swan white, not dove white chandelier.

Incidentally, we watched Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House for the umpteenth time this past weekend - red, green, yellow, blue!

i think there's also a difference in terms of what one was hired to do. i see no point in hiring a designer if you're just so completely married to one color that you couldn't bear to hear that it might not be the best choice. now obviously designers have to hew to the tastes of their client. but saying, "i understand what look you're going for here, and i think x would really bring that out more than your original choice of y" is not in conflict with that. that's what designers DO, that's what you hire them for.

and what happens when you stick with the client's wishes for 'powder blue' and the space looks shitty and you have an ultimately unsatisfied client? i mean, clucking is not appropriate, but interior design is not waiting tables, taking down a list of what the client thinks they want and then making that happen, ingredient by ingredient. it's working with a client to develop a a space that will be functional and meaningful for them.

No, opoponax, what you said is fine and tactful (but I don't believe Mark is a designer, though certainly he seems to bring great experience to bear).

I am also not a designer, but I work on designs of another sort with clients. Trust me, I make suggestions everyday and the clients override them. Anyone who works with clients of any kind realizes that, sometimes you get to realize the grand vision, but more often, you don't. To use a cliche, you pick your battles, and put up a fight if you think that they are making a big mistake, but if they want something you disagree with but isn't major, you often cannot battle it and get things done by the deadline and within budget.

It's certainly not the way I envisioned a client-facing position working before I started doing this, but unfortunately, that's the reality for every single type of designer I know.

no, i totally agree.

i just think it's silly to criticize Mark for having opinions about his clients' color choices, or even for trying to assert those opinions when appropriate.

and i hate the notion that designers are there to do WHATEVER the client wants. when the reason people hire designers is because they don't know enough to make an informed choice.

of course sometimes you just have to do what the client says even when you think it's silly. i deal with that already in my field, even in a subordinate position and a job where we don't so much deal with 'clients' per se as with producers, directors, and cinematographers. so i totally see where you're coming from.

I meant that doctors work you cant really argue with too much b/c is isnt as subjective as art which is more personal taste...i must have typed wrong...entry was before my cup of green tea this morning.

i was simply defending the artistic side. i actually painted my last bedroom powder blue...so i'm guilty too. hehe.

opoponax...your last paragraph totally hit meas a designer i struggle everyday with trying to "please the client" but still stick to my belief that i need to give them my best work. sometimes those conflict greatly. i hate just doign whatever the client wants when i know i can give them something even better. sometimes i am articulate enough to win the client over with my ideas, but often i don't. it's a definate struggle that i haven't fully figured out. maybe one day =)

Hi Holly! I didn't know that you also work with clients. We should email eachother offline. Click my name to contact me. :)

Everyone else, thanks for your thoughts on my post. I am glad you at least understood where I was comining from. I think a good designer has to listen to the client but also be strong enough (using tact of course) to help the client think outside of the usual route he'd take on his own. I love blue, powder, peacock, hand them all to me and I'll figure out a way to incorporate them somehow. BUT I'm thinking Mark just gets that request so often he's burnt out from it.

Back to Marks original post, I love his bold color choice. If anyone follows Tricia Guild out of London, she's releasing a new book in a few months on color - go to amazon.com and search for her name and you should be able to pre order it. She is a total color expert. It's funny, in the USA, she isn't nearly as popular as she is in the UK because she uses a lot of saturated color. But, if you love color and have an interest in further developing your eye for it, google Tricia Guild.

Holly (the decor8 one)

THERE'S SO MUCH HERE I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN RESPOND TO EVERYTHING. you don't think i really roll my eyes in front of people, do you? was trying to create an image to express how i feel--i find myself generally to be charming and magnanimous before clients. anyhow, i love dark rooms and say go as dark as you want. use plain white ceilings and off white trim to frame it off and contain it. and if you go to europe or mexico &c it seems there's nary a white wall anywhere, it's like this mid-century suburban thing has taken over america. also, don't do the whole apartment black, but use dark colors for intimate places or transitional spaces. next week: french bleu, deux.

Don't worry Mark, I think 99.9% know that.

I look forward to next week with french bleu, deux!

Holly

I'm a bit late on this comment line but just couldn't resist commenting on this color and medicine metaphor: I am a nurse and once had to call a doctor and ask her to change a client's heart medicine because the tablets were hot pink. She wouldn't take it, it didn't matter when I explained to her how it would lower her blood pressure or treat her heart failure: She was a lady who thought hot pink pills were inappropriate. So the doctor ordered another medication- a round white tablet.

Gorgeous shades of blue. Thanks for sharing. It almost has a Moroccan feel to me. I do wonder though if seeing a color in an exotic locale makes it more special to us. If you passed a storefront painted in that color in your local downtown area, would you even notice it? or love it? Maybe it's the French mystique that makes it seem so special. When placed in an ordinary state-side apartment, would it look like just another blue?

Mark, thank you for this post - incredible. I love the blue used in those Parisian doorways, so it's nice to have a resource to duplicate this.

Great post.

T8
www.strangeclosets.com
When design takes priority, the result is often strange closets.

Wow. I'm glad I missed this catfight the first time around. I just got a warm fuzzy seeing the same color as my front door featured here.

Gorgeous. But its not just the paint color, its the combination of the gorgeous french windows, the weathered stone, and the overall large scale of the building, windows, and doors. In LA we have so much "cheap" architecture -- we just can't seem to use color to get those effects. Why can't I have those windows!!!

I read this old thread and it reminded me of my poor mama. Well, she doesn't understand the myriad variables in paint color, except when she wanted white, white walls, she was dissatisfied with many colors with a scant drop of hue mixed in, it took a year to choose it. Seems she forgot all this when she went for ideas like "sage green" and ... forget what color she's painting the bathroom. Tan or gold or something? (I don't live near her, so the last visit was too quick to absorb this info). Paint and hardware stores offer the synopsis card. I think everyone knows what I mean, there are about 5 shades of white on front, and about 10 most popular paint colors inside the booklet. The sage green one is sage green, never mind it doesn't even go with the rug. I fixed that one by drudging back to get all the paint chips, narrowing it down to two strips, and we picked "the warm one," next to lightest shade. I wasn't there for the bathroom paint selection, but she's already had a professional there to paint it. It's "off."

So when someone says they want powder blue, just help them narrow that down to what they should get. The reason I'm reminded so acutely of this story is that the pictures in this article look like different blues entirely on this monitor compared to my monitor at work. People need help defining their mind's idea of powder blue, etc., because that's what they want, but if you give them the paint on the paint brochure, they'll hate it. I know, I was that teenager who wanted my bedroom "light blue." It had way too much green in it, can't they see what they've done??? Ha ha.

Without help, that's about all some people can do on their own, and they're not going to be happier if you steer them to spring green or cocoa or lavender. The client envisions a color way, and the designer helps interpret that, unless given free reign because they come with recommendations of marvelousness.