apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

get several brokers.

I refused to pay for a broker. My first, second and third apartment searches I did all of the things that Maxwell suggested. My first New York apartment I found through Craigslist. The second apartment search I found an apartment via a friend. Though when I started getting desperate I also started emailing people on Craigslist who were having a moving sale to see if they had any apartment leads. Also I would go into neighborhoods and ask people at coffeehouses, supermarkets and laundromats if they had any leads or looked for those management company signs on buildings. There is nothing that makes apartment searching easier unless of course you are independently wealthy. Otherwise you have got to slog through it and pound the pavement. Good luck!

move to pittsburgh (smile)

Sorry, but that's the way it is, you have to do the work, the grueling work of pounding the pavement, looking at disgusting places, dealing with useless brokers who want to rent you a dump for tons of money, BUT then at the end of all this exhausting discouraging work, you find your lovely Manhattan gem. It happened to me, right at the point when I wanted to give up. It's like a test, so just stay hopeful through everything, that is, if you really want it!

I've lived in my 1BR DC apt for almost nine years, and the idea of having to find another place someday makes me queasy. I love this apt more than any other, and my theory is that if I get married, my husband can rent the place next door and I'll cut him a pet door.

We found our current apartment by putting an ad in Craigslist. It was kind of like a personals ad "professional couple seeks one bedroom apartment in..."

List the neighborhoods you're interested in. We got a bunch of emails from current tenants who were moving. Often people are breaking a lease, and can avoid a penalty by finding their own replacement...

Thanks for the help so far everyone! I wasn't figuring on avoiding the hassle completely, but anything that can help is great. NY is the only city I've lived in where this process is such a mess.

Sequence - any brokers that you're familiar with and might recommend?

Deoxy - that's a great idea! What section did you post that in on CL?

-Danny

aw, I think that "overwhelming and frustrated" thing is what makes it fun! Plus, then you can brag about how many awful, rat and roach-infested slums you saw before finding your place! (haha) I know some may disagree with me, but try looking in neighborhoods that aren't the latest fad. Obviously safety, train service, groccery stores and all that good stuff still apply but there are a lot of "hidden gems" out there that the NYT and TONY don't write about. I was able to find a great deal on an amazing space in a lesser-known neighborhood and I couldn't be happier.

I found our apartment by haunting ebay. Found people in the NYC area that were selling LOTS of furniture and/or had the word "moving" in their listing. I sent a very polite/concise message to them about what I was looking for and actually had a good response rate. One person had exactly what we were looking for and invited me over - it was perfect and the Landlord is great.

I know it's rarely said...but out NYC Landlord Rocks The House. We'll even invite him to our wedding one day (mental note: plan a wedding).

What neighborhoods are you interested in?

You can try going directly to major corporate landlords, such as Equity Residential, Archstone-Smith, AvalonBay and Glenwood. These places all have hundreds of apartments in their own buildings and act as their own brokers, so no fee! The first three all have Web sites. Glenwood you may have to look up a number for. None of them are for cheap rent, however. All three I listed tend to have places that are truly for middle to upper-middle class professionals.

Every time my lease comes up for renewal I think about moving. But the problem is that while my lease ends in July, it needs to be renewed in May. Apartment rentals in NYC are snapped up so fast that I can't hunt for an apartment in May for an August 1 move in date. But if I wait until July to look for a place, I am in a time crunch in that I HAVE to move by the end of the month or be homeless. And this, my friends, is why I have been living in a nice-but-overpriced studio in Inwood (Upper Manhattan) for 7 years. Sigh.

in 1989, I was driving around Little Five Points, Atlanta's artsy-West Village type area, where I really wanted to live but felt I couldn't afford. It was a particularly dark period in my life, lots of deaths, desertion and I had to move. So, I asked for God's help, "Lord, I would really like to live in this neighborhood. Would you help me?" Just then I passed a pre-war building that had a For Rent sign. The one-bedroom was sunny, had high ceilings, hardwood floors, French doors, a large screened lanai, allowed pets and was only $375/mo.The best thing was I felt like I was back in NYC where I had lived for eight years.
Now, I'm living in Honolulu where the cost of paradise is astronomical but we're blessed with an apartment that meets all our needs.
So, my suggestion, in pidgin, is "Try pray." Jeremiah 29:11 (New Living Translation): "For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope."
Aloha

the broker route costs money, but it's definitely worth it. chris morely at citihabitats always does a terrific job.

if you do use a broker, make him earn his money. be specific about what you want, demand he show you what you want to see, and don't think you're going to find an apartment in a day or a weekend. plan on several different outings with your broker over the course of 2 weeks or so.

and once you've found the place you want, spend a couple of days making the fat f**k [not applicable to chris] show you every 6th floor walkup you have no intention of renting, just to make him sweat a little.

I rented many a place in NYC and never paid a broker. I refuse. My only two tips are (1) look at the real estate classifieds in the Times every damn day. A weekday listing is cheaper than a weekend one, and I ended up renting from mom and pop landlords twice who had one ad, one weekday (and you need the paper version, mom and pop landlords may not fork over extra $ for website). And (2) if you are interested in an area or building, go there directly. Lots of larger buildings have on-site management offices. I rented a place in London Terrace a hundred years ago by just walking in, having a woman show me what was available and signing a lease. More recently, I've had friends do that in Dumbo.

Good luck!

I highly recommend my broker, Matt Berkson (mberkson@citi-habitats.com). He just help us find an apartment to buy and he is a great source of information and very reliable and good to work with. Apartment hunting is rough, but there are lots of great places out there.

Decide what neighborhood you want to live in first and foremost.

The big brokers will show you crap all over Hell's half acre and, if you're like me, I'm not going to be one of their big ticket items and what they usually have in your price range is junk anyway. See if you can find a local broker or real estate agent in the area you want to live. They will have a lot more information and properties in the general area than the big firms and nicer private listings. There are also discount brokers that charge much less because they deal with buildings that are easy to fill. That's how I found mine. I chose a neighborhood and then went to local realtors' offices.

Use one of the yearly neighborhood guides you find in the bookstore too help decide what seems right for you (the Not For Tourists guide is good). Spend a few weekends getting to know potential neighborhoods.

A lot of times the turnover is so consistent that building owners don't need to advertise or list. Find properties in your preferred area that are likely to have some turnover and talk to the super or the doorman to see if the property generally lists with a particular broker or if they have a property open already. On the street, look for posters about properties. Do Craigslist and the free papers for classifieds. BE SPECIFIC but flexible. Be prepared to deal with many, many stupid and uninformed people and realtors more interested in your money than your happiness.

Mostly, start looking well before you move. It will be easy to get swept up into applications for places that aren't quite right because you get desperate. And you'll either give yourself lots of time or you will be desperate - that's the way it works in an overcrowded market. Make sure your credit information is as clean as you can make it. For private placements, references from previous landlords never hurt either.

If you have vacation time, take it and use it so you can concentrate on finding a place during the week. It's nearly a full time job and there's more competition on the weekend. If you have friends in the city, see if they can scout too. And be prepared to spend time on someone's couch while you store your stuff. A great place could open up but not be immediately available.

I moved in 2000 at the height of the housing boom here right before 9/11 brought things back to reality. I started 2 months in advance with searching and making weekend trips to house hunt and even that was much too little time. I ended finding a place that I'm still in. It's not perfect nor was it available right away but it's still a decent place to live in a good neighborhood. Look for 80-85% of ideal. If you find it, GRAB IT!

Good luck.

I give my friends these websites:

http://www.nofeerentals.com/apartments.asp

http://www.bettinaequities.com/

http://www.skymanagement.com/

http://www.ownernofee.com/

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ire/ocha/links.html

Ah yes, "overwhelming and frustrated". I remember that. My roommate, got so p**d off at one point she was talking to a broker and gave him a rant "OK listen up, this is what I want (insert list here, light space, eat in kitchen etc). Dont show me an rubbish. I'm sick of being led up the garden path".

First place he showed us was decent, but a basement. "Its ok but theres no light. You've got one more shot and I'm done with you." And he brought us to the lovely apartment where i still live 5 years later.

Lesson I'm trying to share is is dont be afraid to stick to you guns with the brokers, of course they will try and offload their worst place on you first in your price range first, but they've got the good.

Having a bossy australian accent helps in these things too.

Great post. I am on the hunt for an apt in nyc too. Anyone know of a 1br place in hells kitchen?

@deoxy: I'm also wondering what section you posted that ad in Craigslist

Be careful when taking over someone else's lease. My 2nd apt in NYC I took over from two guys I met at their moving sale--they said it was fine with the landlord and I naively believed them... moved in and was evicted a month later. The landlord was insane--he tried to sue me AND the guys who'd broken the lease for a year's rent each! Needless to say, the judge tossed this out of court.

Deoxy's idea does work: My former roommate posted just such an ad this summer when her sister was moving to town, she got a bunch of nice responses and although her sister worked with a broker as well, she ended up renting a place in Brooklyn from a very nice couple after looking for just one weekend - and without paying a fee!

Of course, it's important to have some good points in your favor when placing the ad; for example, my friend's sister is indeed a quiet, neat-freak professional who never throws parties and has a great credit rating - really an ideal tenant.

Here's another no fee rental management company:

http://www.eberhartbros.com

Nice apartments, mostly on the Upper East & Upper West Side, though they do own & manage several apartments in the West Village and a building near Gramercy Park.

@eeeck : Where in Craigslist did your sister post? Is that where she actually found the apt?

I'm in the same boat. It's nice to know i'm not the only one frustrated with the process of finding a place...

That being said, a question: What's a reasonable budget for a studio or 1 bedroom in the nicer parts of Brooklyn or Manhattan? I didn't think I was reaching too much trying to keep it around $1600, but given the spaces I've been seeing lately I'm starting to second guess myself a bit.

i know a great place and know the landlords (me and my husband): http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/abo/445051092.html
open house tonight!

nice space! any other properties?

Union - I pay $1200 for a 650 sq. ft. one-bedroom in Prospect Lefferts-Garden. My last apartment in this neighborhood was 450 sq ft. one-bedroom and I paid $900. Its not Park Slope or Cobble Hill but I like the neighborhood, being two blocks from the park, the Q train and you can't beat the prices. I think studio apartments in our building (easily one of the nicest buildings in the neighborhood) are $950 a month. Ultimately though, prices are different in every neighborhood. I remember seeing studios posted on craigslist in Park Slope for $1500 last time I was looking...

Hope that helped a bit!

In looking for apartments in Chicago, I would call phone numbers in ads or on signs only to hear a dozen beeps or more of people who'd called and left messages before me. So I developed this tactic. When I left the message, I would say, "I realize you're getting tons of calls about this apartment. Here's why you should call me first." Then I would quickly market myself--good job, reliability, "I love the neighborhood" [so they know you're not going to show up and reject the place because of where it is], I've lived in my current place X years, etcetera. It worked. I found one place where we lived for 10 years, and we're in another great place now where I used the same technique in an email responding to a Craigslist ad.

After moving six times in 9 years, all around Manhattan, I can only offer the following anecdotes:

-It is always easier to find apartments in walk-ups, townhouses/brownstones and low-rise buildings without doormen. Accordingly they are typically 10-20% cheaper than their full-service counterparts.

-Full service buildings (which is a necessity for me) are relatively scarce downtown. Many brokers will try to discourage you, but there are full-service buildings here and there... you have to be positive and persistent.

-I have always used a broker, which is probably due to the fact that practically all full-service buildings use brokers exclusively and do not deal with the general public.

-99% of brokers are SCUM and LIARS who basically do nothing more than read old listings from a central database and know nothing about the properties they reel off. The truly exceptional broker is the one who has forged PERSONAL relationships with building owners and gets exclusives and advance notification of vacancies. I have found one or two in my journeys, which I found on craigslist.com.

-Do contact management companies. However, there are some very SHADY management companies that will charge you a broker fee, simply because the property manager happens to be a "licensed real estate professional." Unfortunately, if it's the perfect apartment for the perfect price, you really have no choice but to pay the fee.

-Often times paying the broker fee means that your rent will be somewhat cheaper than if you went with a "no fee" apartment. Really there is no such thing as a TRULY "no fee" apartment because the realtor gets paid regardless, and if the landlord is paying, he/she is going to tack it to the rent anyway.

-If noise and privacy are important to you, you do not want to be in a brownstone, townhouse or any building that is less than 8 stories in height. You will hear every voice through the wall and every step made by your upstairs neighbor. A tell-tale sign of buildings to avoid are the ones with fire escapes on the outside (an indication that there is no fireproofing/soundproofing material like concrete between floors). Always look out for concrete construction or pre-war high-rise buildings. I would much rather live in a quiet cookie cutter shoebox than a dramatic lofty space where I can hear every footstep. And heaven forbid you should live in such a building below someone with kids and dogs!

-Some buildings deal exclusively with one real estate agency only. Again, you have to pay the broker, but at least you are getting into a building that does not appear on every database, which increases the chance of getting something "fresh" rather than the decrepit scraps.

-Be prepared to make a decision on the spot. You will not be successful in this cutthroat market if you are wishy-washy.

-If a broker has lined up appointments to show a particularly interesting apartment, do whatever it takes to get in first. Take a day off of work, etc. And come prepared to pay for an application and credit check.

-Go to this link for links to building management companies around Manhattan. http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3261

If anyone wants a small, shabby, and dim but well-located and cheap apartment in Park Slope, I'm moving from my rent-stabilized jr. 1BR in a month.

Move to East Harlem or Uptown. Don't pay more than 1600, you're getting ripped off. You'll probably have to use a broker if you want to be in Manhattan, not as much if you live in BK. Citi Habitats has a good selection, however if you do much research you will find that they take things off CL and show you those places, so CL is ultimately much better. They also share a lot of listings with other brokers so many times 5-6 agencies will have the exact same listings. Also Citi has expensive places, as does Corcoran, and honestly I think they are rude and a bit of a rip-off. I eventually had a broker who was independent and he negotiated a rate with me which was very helpful. But yeah, you'll have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a good place. I kissed about 10. If you are interested in East Harlem, Harlem, or Morningside Heights check out RV Realty and Vertical City. Both list things on CL and are genuinely nice people. You might also look at Queens, LIC has some nice places but you have to be willing to cover a lot of ground on foot to find stuff. Do not go to MQ Realty, at least my experience with them was awful. Very pushy and damn-near demanding.

Just went through horrendous apt search. A few tips:

-First off, you'll save yourself a lot of time if you recognize the insane costs of apartments right now. I started off looking for a $1350 studio, wasted a month looking, and found ZIP below 100th street. Two horrifying months later (I'm not kidding), I wound up in a great, newly furnished studio near Chinatown for $1550. That's the going rate now in Manhattan, I'm afraid. I saw much worse listed for the same price.

-www.rent-direct.com seems decent, with $100 fee for listings access, I think. They don't seem to have much in Manhattan, though; better for Brooklyn.

-If you must use broker, I agree with above: use several different brokers including Manhattan Apts, CitiHabitats, others. Be firm about what you want, and after their initial meeting at their office, say you'd prefer to simply meet at the apartments. Otherwise, they try to bring you into their office every single time; they want to walk around with you and tire you out so that you'll just pick something. Don't fall for it. Take taxis.

Good luck.

About posting ads on Craiglist: I have also done this before. I posted both in the Housing Wanted section as well as in the Apartment section.

I was pretty specific about what I wanted ( good light, hardwood floors, EIK, close to subway), how much I could spend and all the ways I was a good tenant. When I was looking I wanted to live in Park Slope, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill and Prospect Heights. Despite being very specific I got tons of responses from landlords whose apartments did not fit my criteria and were in places like Coney Island, Bushwick and Greenpoint (places that are fine but not where I wanted to live). But then again I was looking at a difficult time AUGUST 1.

Apartment hunting requires diversification. In a market like NYC you have to try everything. So use brokers, find management companies, ask friends, use CraigsList ( look at postings, post your own, troll for moving sales), ask at work/church, pound the pavement. It truly is a full time job. But when you finally move in to your place its all worth it.

I will second Sharon's idea of going directly to apartment management. I used to live in a building owned by Bettina Equities, and they list all their apartments in their corporate office. (If I remember correctly, it's on 85th Street.) No broker's fee, and my large one-bedroom (that had been converted to a two-bedroom by a previous tenant) had really reasonable rent just three years ago. Their office manager, Grace, is somewhat of a nightmare, and is like one of Marge's sisters on the Simpsons (but not funny) but dealing with her is worth it for cheap rent.

For reference/research, check out:
http://www.rentometer.com/
http://www.newyorknabes.com/
They'll give you a rough idea what ppl are paying in the neighborhoods your interested in or already live in. Dopety-dope!

I think we just posted in the "housing wanted" section, but I don't really remember. We did get responses from a bunch of brokers, so you should specify in your ad no brokers. We also got a bunch of responses that did not match our criteria.

We actually went with the first reply we got, for a HUGE, cheap apartment in Jackson Heights--not a neighborhood we had considered originally--so keep an open mind.

@Steverino : Thanks for the advice. Can I ask how you found such a good deal for an apt downtown?

we are selling ours! without a broker (hopefully we won't have to resort to one). our apt was in the smallest coolest apartment contest-- paullchiks long light views and in the smallest nursery contest-- violet's urban treehouse (we got third place!). we just emailed friends and family about it this week, what timing. if you are interested you can email us at dcp@dpaull.com and we'll send you all the info. we are having an open house this Sunday- (october 10th) from 11:30-1.

@Cassis: I'm raising my hand! My husband and I are looking for just such a place! Email me at kms (dot) kristen (at) gmail

Hi Cassis,

I'm interested too! Can you email me? bb [AT] princeton.edu

Thanks! BB

Thanks for all the input everyone! I'll certainly take it into consideration as I begin my hunt, though that may get put off for a month or two (trying to decide whether to jump out of my lease Dec. 1 or finish it out till Feb. 1).

This kind of post is problematic because invariably it turns into spam. Please think twice before choosing this topic again.

Bruiser: What exactly is spam here? Sure, people have posted links, and someone mentioned a place they're selling. But it's all been civil and in the realm of helping. I don't see what the problem is, especially compared to the insights offered.

Finding an apt. in NYC is basically a hugely difficult task. Why should a discussion forum dedicated to the home not include some tips on finding a home?

if you can make it through this process without jumping off of one of the buildings you are being shown, you've become a true New Yorker....I felt I did nothing but refresh craigslist for months on end....

a few thoughts:
--the old adage if it sounds too good to be true.... goes without saying
--if you don't have time to devote to this, a broker will be helpful if not necessary. that said, your broker ain't necessarily your friend....
--Walk. Walk. Walk. through every neighborhood you might possibly consider with pen and paper in hand. Write down phone #s (if there is one) or just the address. Go home and plug in that address to google and see what you come up with.
--Talk. Talk. Talk. to everyone you can about your search. If there's a bldg with a storefront below, it's quite possible the store owner knows who's moving, who's being evicted, who's staying, who the landlord is, and it's quite possible that storeowner may be the landlord him-herself.
--If you think your income won't meet the outrageous formulas for approval, go ahead, right now, this second, get your guarantors in line (and if they're in the tri-state area, that's better, if not required).
--Go ahead and find the money for not only your first month and security, but yet another security deposit just in case you might need it. Seriously.
--Go ahead and budget for a bunch of application fees, usually $50 a pop per person.
--If the apt seems remotely doable and appealing to you (that's what apartment therapy is for, to solve those post-move in problems....), say without hesitation I LOVE IT, I LOVE YOU, I'LL TAKE IT, HERE IS A CERTIFIED CHECK RIGHT NOW, HERE ARE SOME CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES I BAKED FOR YOU THIS MORNING. Don't hesitate a second. Really.
--That said, if it doesn't work out, move on. There will be something else to come along.
--Off the top of my head, if you need to keep the cost down and the space high in sq. footage, you're going to be up in Morningside Heights and Inwood, where the apartments are the size of Montana compared to my stomping ground (Chelsea, the EV, and that vicinity). You might investigate the still quite not fully insane area of (cough) Chelsea Heights aka lower Clinton/Hell's Kitchen, i.e, from around 23rd Street north to 42nd, and then west of Eighth Avenue. There's maybe about thirty-five or forty minutes before that area totally takes off (witness: art galleries, restaurants, lots of hotel development in the past year).
--Follow the gay men. They (we) are always out there developing and reconstructing the next new area. Chelsea was no man's land a decade plus ago; then came Hell's Kitchen. Now, yes, it's Inwood and up that aways. And who knows what we have up our sleeves next, but gay men historically seem to have the correct sense of where to go next.

Good luck...unless you're a New Yorker who has been battened down in their apartment for years and years (and those New Yorkers really don't understand how hard it is, and you'll weep when you go to someone's place and you get up the courage to ask how much they pay for their one bedroom on 21st st, between 7th and 8th in Chelsea, and they say "$700"), it will be a shocking, disheartening, yet ultimately heroic journey.

I am planning a move to NYC from Philadelphia late this year no later than May of 2008 so this helps alot. There is a possibility that I will be attending graduate school at NYU-midtown hence the move. My predicament is I was laid off in February of this year and my credit rating is in the toilet. How difficult is it to get a place? Is it possible to find something around NYU that is walking distance or 15-20 min away by subway.

I must admit I am afraid to buy a bed, etc unit I find a place. I have been in my current place w/out a bed and other furniture and feel that its best to furnish after I get there since new york has more to offer in the way of second hand shops and the like.

Thanks Danny for posing the question that has been on my mind and to everyone for there answers. Keep them coming!:)