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I think this family's behavior is rude, plain and simple. I'm not so moved by the fire hazard point, nor would I really say it's an aesthetic thing. It's more of a fairness issue to me.

It's true, every building has its own rules and, probably more importantly, its own customs. If I go to look at an apartment and everybody in the building has a basket of shoes outside the door and some coat hooks and there are a few bikes and strollers, I have the option of saying, hmm, I don't like that custom (for whatever reason), but it's clearly the standard in this building, so I choose not to live in this building. It would certainly not be fair for me to move into the building and then start trying to get everyone to take in their shoes and strollers.
The converse is also true. If these people moved in the building and nobody else had their business in the hallway, then what they are doing now is violating the custom -- the social contract of the community, if you will.

By far the most shocking thing to me in this particular situation is that the person writing the original question is the condo board president!! Andi, do exactly what you would do if another owner came to you and complained about this issue. Read the bylaws and go talk to them. If you're in charge, you don't have the luxury of deliberating in your head about your own personal opinion; the rest of the people in your building are counting on you to take care of things like this.

It's just plain bad manners!

Well, if their coats mysteriously went missing, they might be less likely to store them in the hallway. Just sayin'.

You could just start throwing their stuff away when they are not home.

I have to disagree, kind of. I think it’s nice to have enough trust in your neighbors to leave things like a bicycle or similar in the hallway… so long as it’s not all over the place obviously. I do sympathize with your situation though if their stuff is ugly and beat-up, and if their shoes stink, even worse!

But, if they’re the owners… there probably isn’t much you can do about it, and trying to force them by calling building inspectors is probably a good way to start your new apartment hunt.

Your best bet is to just ask them to not leave those things out in the hallway, maybe they have a basment?

My coop has rules about the hallway - no doormats or anything personal. The only thing that can be hung are "non-permanant decorations" which do not permanantly destroy the door. But its way different dealing with a coop of only 5 people! They should understand that nobody wants their smelly shoes and stuff in the hallway.

To remove their things is passive-aggressive and cowardly. Say something. Bring it up in a meeting. But don't take their things.

Why not ask them to put up nice storage? Thin, stapled-to-the-wall shoe racks, etc? I share a hallway with one other apartment, and when their stuff piled up in the hall I suggests that they use some old shelving I was getting rid of. We put it up, the stuff went on it and now it looks organized, not like lots of personal trash.

In my rental building, the landlord posted notice stating that 'for fire safty reasons', nothing can be left in the hallway which obstructs evacuation pathways. Not even pictures on the walls. The notice was posted after inspection from the fire deparment so I am assuming it is because of fire codes. Maybe you could look into it.

Your co-op's proprietary lease may spell out rules about use of common space. My own (which is a boilerplate document, for the most part) specifically says that nothing can be placed in the hallway that blocks the stairs, and that even decorations (pictures) cannot be placed without the agreement of the others sharing the space. I suggest you contact your management company, if you have one, or the Board, and ask that the items be removed.

I guess I'm in the middle of the thoughts on this ... I use the space outside my door, however, I am on the top floor and have a huge landing that no one passes. I therefore asked and got permission to use it for a spot to put-on/take-off wet boots, coats etc and to store my recycle bins.

However, it annoys me to no end that my downstairs neighbor uses the space outside their door (which others must narrowly pass-by) for their garbage dump. No shoes/coats, whatever ... they litterally dump their garbage bags there until garbage day. Not only is it in the way (we have to leave them notes all the time telling them when we have a lot of company or furniture or something coming so they can take their trash in) but it just plain smells. I even once had a guest trip and fall outside their door which sits right at the top of the staircase. Thankfully the tumble wasn't bad.

So I guess all that to say, some use outside your door in certain circumstances, but other circumstances ... no good.

And definitely get the approval of the building before assuming you can do it.

Items like bicycles that are left in a narrow hallway are a fire hazard, and could be opening the co-op up to a fine should the NYFD ever have to come in.

When we had a carbon monoxide scare in my rental building, the fire department was unable to reach the roof easily because of my expletive-deleted neighbors who stored both of their bikes in the hall *and their exercise bike*, which they used out there. The neighbors were not there, but I was, and I got a scathing lecture from the fireman that suffice it to say left a strong impression!

So I would say yes, play the fire hazard card - as a co-owner of the co-op, could you express concern that their behavior is leaving the building open to citation by the NYFD?

I agree with gc. Our condo building prohibits any personal items in the common areas (lobby, hallways) as both a fire code and personal safety issues. All you need is for someone to trip over that stuff and then sue your building...

I'm with Lady J 100%. Find a way to politely discuss your feelings about the hallway. While having to look at their stuff may be less-than-ideal, angry or resentful neighbors would be worse.... If they are reasonable folk, then surely a compromise of some sort can be reached.

L

I guess I should clarify for fire safety reasons, the landing I use I think was approved because it is on the other side of the top of the stairwell in a dead space that doesn't lead anywhere.

i'd check your co-op's rules. all owners and their tenants are required to abide by them. and if you're in nyc, chances are that this kind of behavior is specifically prohibited in the rules. if it is, and if you trust your super to be discreet, then i'd have the super ask your neighbours to remove their personal items. this way there's no bad blood between you and your neighbours and the super's perceived as just doing his/her job. that failing, i'd contact the property manager. oh and keep a record of all your contact attempts. maybe even take a photo that's dated too. good luck.

As the girlfriend of a fireman, this is against code. Not only that, they are risking your life by blocking your means of egress. They are risking the life of any rescue workers who have to enter the building to save you. It should be in your co-op rules that the hallway remain unblocked. I would speak to your co-op president (I am one) immediatly and have them enforce the rules. If the board needs prodding, ask them how they would like it if they lost their investment because of a neighbors negligence if there was a fire and someone was injured or killed because they couldn't escape.

Can't we have a bit of a heart? There are clearly kids and a whole family living in cramped corners as they try to find ways around the situation. I don't disagree that it's bad manners, annoying, and ugly...but...if it makes their lives a little easier and better, is it really so much for you to overlook??

Totally inappropriate. It's a common space because it's "common" to everyone. You aren't supposed to use it for non-common things like storing your personal stuff. Check your bylaws, you'll likely find something saying personal storage in the hall isn't allowed.

You should ask them politely to move their stuff, and point out that hallway storage is citation material to the FDNY.

i don't think it's a matter of having a heart or not. i live in a co-op containing mostly townhomes that all have their own small yards and tiny front porches. i know that each person gets their own porch and what not, but it's frustrating when people do the same thing and leave a bunch of personal items that belong inside one's home or enclosed yard (like strollers and garden tools) lying all over in front of the buildings. i mean, it's a co-op! my investment isn't just in my own nice, clean place, but in everyone else's too. i expect my neighbors to respect me just as i respect them by not cluttering up our neighborhood with junk that makes it look cheap and uncared for.

If one family's comfort impedes on an entire building's comfort or safety, then NO, you can't overlook it. Just because someone has children, doesn't mean they have more priveleges than the rest of the tenants.

I would approach the co-op president, because it seems to me these people are clueless and will continue to be so.

I say take their things and hide it all around the building.

it is a security issue lisa, for that family as well as everyone else in the building. personal and financial too. it's why these rules are made. if that family can't abide by them, as they agreed to when they purchased their shares, then they need to make a change. it's one thing for them to jeopardize their own saftey, but unconscionable for them to risk others.

i've worked in the real estate law/insurance field and have seen many very bad cases. believe me, you don't want to overlook something like this.

I'm with Alisa -- imagine a smoke-filled hallway and firemen trying to feel their way through to all the apartments to help anyone trapped. It puts everyone at risk unnecessarily!

One thing to consider - even though you have special permission to use the area outside your door, maybe you shouldn't, especially if you don't like it when others do. Even if it is playing by the rules, it still will seem unfair to those who can't also use their spaces. Sort of like pulling out a chocolate cake to eat in front of a diabetic friend.

Lisa your argument makes no sense. If a building is small and passages are narrow then all the more reason for them to be clear of obstruction. These people need to look into devising better storage within their apartment. (Maybe their neighbors might have some suggestions.) Creating a hazard for the other tenants is not the solution.

Those clothes are also flammable. And the last thing you need when trying to evacuate during a fire, is to have to run a gauntlet of flaming clothing hanging in the hallway.

My co-op strictly forbids anything at all in the hallways - this means mats, shoes, boots, umbrellas - etc. They don't even like packages left at an individual's door.

I think it is a rule most co-ops have.

Outrageous! This sort of behavior should not be tolerated. Had they asked beforehand, I might advocate a slightly less-harsh approach.... but they did not, which seems a calculated wager on the likelihood of a response from you. Not very neighborly, which is why I say skip the niceties. Check with your board/your handbook for back-up; surely this type of situation is covered somewhere. If not, get it added in.

Unfortunately, we don't have either a management company or a super (something I've been trying to change) and I'm the unlucky board president.

And, as much IÂ’d like to swipe their things and teach them a lesson, that seems about as right asÂ…well, keeping all your stuff in the hallway.

I understand that they have a kid (and another on the way), but I agree with the poster who said that doesnÂ’t mean they should get special treatment.

Obviously, my only course of action is to read our by-laws and see if thereÂ’s anything mentioned there about common space. Then, go have a word with them.

Thank you all for your comments!

Ona, a) I had permission from the whole building (i.e. the tenants downstairs also) and b) other units in the building have other special priviledges. For example, the people who are messing up the hallways with garbage actually have a small garden area that does not belong to their unit, yet was voted that they could have it as they have a door that overlooks it (and the tenant that it would belong to, didn't want to keep it up.) (This is also why we've all asked why they can't just store their garbage in cans down there.)

I really don't think having a coatrack (which only has coats on it when they're drying) and a closed recycle bin in a space that no one else even sees but me is the same as putting big black garbage bags on the stairs that all of us have to trip (er ... step) over.

Alisa is right. Using the corridor for storage is against fire codes. The public corridor is technically a "means of egress" and cannot be blocked or used for storage, precisely because it is a path of egress. And Lisa, though it may be "nice" and polite to overlook the neighbors keeping their stuff in the hallway, it IS a fire hazard. I would choose NOT risking my life over being kind to the neighbors and overlooking their violation of codes.

My suggestion: politely point out to your neighbor that keeping personal belongings in the hallway is a fire hazard and against fire codes. If they resist and keep their things in the hallway, then contact the fire department to see if they can help you out.

Andi,
As the condo prez, maybe you could insinuate that others have been complaining about the cluttered hallway to you? A white lie, in case you are feeling non conforntational...

Hey everyone,
for what it is worth....I have lived in two different countries in which this is the standard practice for both shoes and baby carriages (especially shoes--places in which shoes are not worn into the home, for even a few steps, as standard cultural practice). I am not saying that you need to let everyone play by whichever set of rules they want, but just requesting that you give people the benefit of the doubt about things like shoes and baby carriages. They may have no idea this would bother someone. I am an American, but had never lived in a big city apartment building before my experiences overseas, where I got used to doing the same--this well could have been me upon moving back to the States!

Approach them nicely, and don't judge them unless and until they don't respond appropriately thereafter.

With a coop, I would avoid the fire department. This is a case of calling the authorities on yourself. If the objects in the hall are a fire hazard (and they may be,) your coop would be fined for the infraction - not the resident. I would seriously try to solve it in house.

In terms of a fire hazard, if the shoes, baby carriage block the hall, even if only for the tenant in question, it is a violation of fire code - and the coop could be held responsible for not keeping the halls clear, particularly for a long standing storage situation.
In contrast, if the halls are 8 feet wide and the storage only takes up about 2 feet of the width of that corridor and does not infringe on the path of travel for any tenant - then it might be fine in terms of fire code.

You can have stuff in your hallways (think of tables, mirrors, plants in hotel hallways) but it can not block your way out in case of a fire (or the way in for a fireman)

NYC Fire Code says nothing in the hallway. Not even a doormat or a wreath on the door. No umbrellas. Nothing.

i'm confused. do the items block the hallway, or are they just unsightly?

i'm not so sure that it's a blanket rule in all NYC co-ops that there be nothing in hallways, period. i live in a co-op and lots of people have doormats, decorate for the holidays, leave packages next to doors, etc. we have a trash chute and occasionally someone will leave large non-dirty or smelly discarded items like old furniture or cardboard boxes neatly stacked in the hall next to the chute for the maintenance guys to take away. i've never seen personal items stored and i don't know how i feel about that, but if it's blanket policy it sure isn't enforced in my complex (which tends to be pretty sticklerish). i've also lived in rental units where landing and hallway storage was completely OK as long as it didn't block access.

the coats and shoes are a bit much, but i don't see a problem with a stroller if it's not a mess and doesn't block egress. and even with the coats and shoes, i think this is something that can be handled politely -- the family might not be familiar with city living ettiquite.

The NYC Housing Maintenance Code states, in relevant part, that no tenant or other person may: "place any encumbrance before or upon, or cause access to be obstructed to, any fire escape, or obstruct by a baby carriage or any encumbrance the public halls or any required means of egress". Not sure what jurisdiction you are in.

This conforms to what Alex has posted - it can be interpreted to be dependent upon the size of the hallway and the size of the obstruction. The code states that a baby carriage or other item cannot "obstruct" a hallway. It does not say it cannot BE in the hallway at all, but that it cannot obstruct it. (i.e. block the safe passage through the hallway or other area of egress from a dwelling unit)

In this case, it sounds like a narrow hallway and the baby carriage sounds like it would be obstructing. Therefore, I think you have a legitimate complaint about the stroller vis a vis life safety issues.

As for the coat hooks with coats and scarves and the shoes underneath, I don't see how anyone could define this as necessarily obstructing the hallway, unless we are talking about some mighty huge hooks or clown sized shoes! It sounds like its primarily an aesthetic issue. So what? Why be so fricking uptight?

You may find it distasteful. I think it sounds quite homey. I've lived in these types of small buildings before and unit owners (and renters like me) often had little coathooks and shoe baskets outside their doors in the hallways. It made it feel cozy, like we were all a big family.

Personally, I find the idea of a barren hallway, kept aseptically devoid of life by overwrought co-op or condo boards to be the product of borderline petty Mussolinis. (And if a neighbor had the nerve to tell me to stop keeping something in my yard because it was affecting their property values I'd quickly turn a hose on them for being an obnoxious ponce.)

If you are the condo prez, how come you don't know the bylaws and fire codes?

Just askin.'

And PULEAZE, to those who "feel sorry for the family, *needing* the extra storage space, maybe they should have thought about their cramped quarters before creating "another one on the way."

And don't get me started on those who "leave things neatly for the maintenance men to take away." That's just lazy-ass people who want to make their situation someone else's problem.

re: obstruction issue
A stroller "out of the way" ina clearly lit hallway qucikly becomes an obstruction when that hallway fills with smoke or the power fails.

This is sorta on the topic, but what are the rules on hall lights? I'm assuming they must always be on...?? Because someone repeatedly shuts ours off, which not only is a bit creepy, but at dinnertime, we get a lot of angry delivery men who can't find their way up the dark steps until they get to our flight which we always go out and turn back on for them.

OK - I did some followup. From the mouth of a retired NYC firefighter, the gist is:

Baby carriages, bikes, filled trash bags and other large items in the hallway that can block the hallway - bad. Bikes in hallway are especially not good as firefighters loaded down with equipment can get tangled in them.

Coats, scarves, etc. on coat pegs with shoes neatly underneath - ok. They don't get in the way and don't impede egress.

um, patrick, that's what we're supposed to do with large trash items on large trash days. if the complex policy was otherwise i'd gladly haul things to the curb myself, but it's not. it's also part of the job of the maintenance crew, who also take care of the recycling (which is kept in a close near the chute).

in the case of furniture and other household items (i'm talking small things here, side chairs and the like, not couches), it's actually a welcome policy because it makes it easier to empty one's outbox without having to outright throw everything away, or to get the occasional freebie. useful household objects in good condition are generally swept up before the maintenance crew does their daily pickup.

close = closet, sorry.

People have a right to procreate, Patrick. I'm sorry if it offends your sensitive sensibilities that a family might spring up next door and leave some muddy shoes outside their front door. Heaven forbid a little clutter should intrude upon your otherwise antiseptic lifestyle.

Yeesh. How many sticks are up peoples butt's these days?

ridge - are you a tenant or owner? Building owners in NYC are required to follow the sunset to sunrise rule - hallway lighting has to be on from sunset to sunrise. However, lighting must be on 24 hours a day in fire stairs, or stairwells (and i think hallways) where there are no windows or the windows fail to provide adequate lighting. For a coop or condo, lighting in hallways would be the responsibility of the owner (ie. condo or coop vis a vis the board)

Thanks, Dave. I had a feeling it was something like that. I am a tenant and I've talked to the building owner on several occasions about it, and they insist they've notified everyone to keep the stairway lights on, but they're not here to regulate that they do stay on and we can't figure out who it is who is turning them off. Most of the people in our building don't speak English, so I can't walk around asking everyone to please not turn them off, unfortunately.

the family in question has created a fire hazard. this issue is basic consideration of others,in my building there is a metal computer desk, with a note; do not remove, in front of the hall window, which is access to the fire escape for 2 weeks. if there was a fire or emergency live could be affected by this lack of consideration.

ridge - you might talk to your landlord about getting rid of the light switch and hardwiring the hallway lights to a timer or sensor.

Please, please DO have as many children that you can afford to adequately provide appropriate shelter for, as well as the necessities that are required to maintain them in your own home. Not in the part of the building that isn't specifically yours, and I don't really care if the fire department does allow it. It's terrible manners and just don't do it! That's all! Don't! Period! Patrick is absolutely right here, as usual.

I'm (almost) sorry to sound so uncharacterically (for me) emphatic, but I'm just not buying that crap.

Opinions are like a-holes, Curtis. And yours is just that - an opinion.

I agree about the having carriages, bicycles, etc. in hallways. Its potentially dangerous and all around bad form.

But a coat hook and shoes - bah. Some folks get the vapors at the thought. I think those folks need to take chill pill and call the Orkin Man to get the bug removed from their opinions.

wow, this topic s almost as fun as the smoking one the other day :-)

What bugs me about the situation is that, at $1000/sqft for many Manhattan apartments these days, taking up even 3 square feet of space in a common hallway is a lot. They're essentially stealing valuable common space from the other members of the co-op.

Then of course there are the fire issues and the fact that it's unsightly and would lower the perceived value of other units in the building if potential buyers were to see trash - I mean, babystrollers, whatevs - in the hallway. If they can't keep that stuff in their apartment, they need to throw stuff away or get a bigger apartment - but taking up space that is shared by other tenants isn't cool.

Finally - we get to the meat of the matter - people can't live in their homes AS homes if it might - no matter how tenuous the rationale - theoretically affect the sale value of their neighbor's unit.

God - have we really gotten that selfish and uptight as a society? I thought this blog was about creating a home - not about creating a real estate investment. I hope the condo market flattens out for the next decade and y'all lose your shirts.

And exactly how is a coat hook and shoe basket taking up other tenant's space? If no one can use the space for anything (except as a means of walking from one's front door to the building entrance), then its space that has no real practical value to anyone. And if it has no value to anyone, then what exactly has been stolen with a coat peg and shoe basket? (And don't get me started on those nasty condo boards that won't even let unit owners put holiday decorations on their front doors.)

This is all about one group of people (uptight, humorless unit owners in serious need of a Lewinsky) wanting to impose their narrow-minded view of what is the "correct" way to live upon everyone else. We used to call these people "squares" who hip bohemian society would laugh about as the joint was passed around.

Course, this has been going on since the first HOA was formed and ten seconds later the most officious busybody in the building immediately ran for condo board President on a platform of what the right shade of beige to paint the hallways.

Dave--
Of COURSE people have the *right* to procreate. Just don't come crying when your offspring have outgrown your converted studio and you want to annex the common space (which was my point).

Now, about "sticks up the butt"... I LOVE it when you talk dirty.

(and Dave, my boy, if opinions are like a-holes, you have more than your fair share)

If I have to read one more person saying this is a fire hazard i think i'll scream. we get it - it's dangerous. but, let's be honest - everyone just feels like this family is imposing with the solution they found to a problem they were having in their home. Why is everyone so intolerant of each other and unwilling to give an inch. We aren't super human and need some leverage to get through the day sometimes. We don't have storage space in New York and some people have a real hard time with apartment therapy, especially if they have growing kids.

If this is such a problem or hazardous, just knock on their door and tell them. There are other units in your building, gauge their opinion and get their support. If you are just being uptight, I hope that you wont find yourself imposing on someone in some way one day and wishing people would have more tolerance with you. With all of you people who are SO hard with your lofty opinions and theorist solutions to life.

But they "solved their problem" with a disregard for the fact that they are members of a community (floor/building/city/world).

Disregard is pretty harsh judgment. There are much worse things that neighbors can do to each other than this.

Yes, there ARE worse things, to be sure. But "me first" oblivion to being part of a community is how it all starts.

Try to solve this matter by talking to the people, perhaps they just dont realize that they are doing anything wrong. Blaming other people for complaining, throwing out their stuff or putting up unsigned notes is not a good idea. I used to live in a "fireproof" building (no fire escape) where someone kept throwing out the garbage in the hallway leaving it for the super that only came by every other day instead of taking it down themselves was a problem and other tenants were putting up nasty unsigned notes that only aggravated our messy neighbor. But after I talked with her and pointed out that this was creating a bug problem in the hallway she immediately stopped.
I think it is very unfair to keep your things in the hallway if other people cant, even if you are living on the top floor and they are out of sight for everyone ...your clothes will burn if there is a fire, the clothes-rack also and you know that burning things fall down.
I have lived in a small city apartment with a child. The stroller and the bicycles were in the living-room, the clothes and shoes crammed behind the door, the snow-sled under the bed, the out of season stuff kept in storage. It has never bothered me if people occasionally leave a wet umbrella in the hallway or a set of snow-boots to dry -however these things should not become permanent fixtures in a shared space.
I hope you can solve this problem by talking to your neighbors, most people are nice if you approach them the right way. You can tell them about this website and how it often points out good solutions on storage, how to mount your bike to the wall etc.

Until you're ready to confront these neighbors directly, ideally in tandem with the other neighbors, why not begin to use their coat hooks?

They're in the common area - must be out there for everyone to use, no? And then thank them for their generosity in providing everyone on the floor with additional coat storage space.

My friends do this in their condo, but then so do their neighbors. No one blocks exits. The stroller are tucked into a weird sort of niche. It doesn't bother me at all at their house, but it could never be done in my apartment, because it's basically a straight hallway with no niches--and our board would be all over that, although my friend's apartment is exponentially more expensive than ours is.

We used to live in a coop, and before we hung coat hooks outside out door, at a coop meeting, we asked the rest of the coop if they minded. It's all about being considerate.

OF course blocking hallways/fire hazzards is a problem. But that's different fron the eyesore/rude concern. I agree with the person who said a little hominess can be a good thing. And maybe it's an asian thing, but I think it's totally normal to leave your shoes outside your door, and, come to think of it, my non-asian Brooklyn neighbors across the hall do the same thing. Noo, not all over the hall, but neatly on the doormat. They even bought a little stool that they share with me for sitting and putting on shoes.

In my brother's coop building in Brooklyn, almost every apartment has a coatrack and shoe area outside the door (not blocking the hall). No one seems angry about it, and last time they checked their apartment had skyrocketed in value.

I guess I think, unless it blocks the hall or stinks, live and let live. If it does block the hall or stink, just ask them to take it inside!

LG, and whoever else made a big deal about my space ... here is the set-up of my building (as if its any of your business, but just to illustrate my point) ... we have all lived here since the building was put up ... we all have various little perks to our places that were approved for us as we've all settled in over the years. Examples: the family in the basement now has the free, no-coin-op washer and dryer that was originally made for the whole building as some recent renovation made the laundry room have to become part of their apartment. The rest of us now schlep our clothes down the street to the laundromat. I'm the top floor of a walk-up, so not an ideal situation for me. A unit on the first floor has a garage although it was originally part of another apartment. Doors were moved, etc. to make it part of theirs, per the building owner as the other guy did not have a car. As before, the unit below me has a terrace that goes down to a back garden that is not part of their apartment. Sure, the rest of us would like to spend time down there, I'm sure, but it has been given to them. I have a small-bedroom-sized area on my floor on the other side of the stairway that is empty and is not part of the walkway. The building owner originally had boxes stored there ... once they moved them, I asked if I could use it for a wet-coat and boots area and place to put my recycle bin. No problem.

Now, out of all the perks in my building (and there are some others) is being able to hang my wet coat on a wall on my private floor really the best of all of them? Seriously, you think I'm really that spoiled with that little extra bonus? I only brought up my own circumstance originally to point out that every building has its own set of rules or whatnot ... and since its not your building, don't call me selfish (and equate me to a cruel person shoving cake in my face in front of diabetics) because I have a little extra part of my apartment that no one but you (a non-resident of our building) cares about.

And incidentally ... you think wet boots, umbrellas, etc. are no problem ... if you paid any attention to my post, you'll see that there is only something on the coat rack when it is drying after coming in from rain, or whatever. After that, I bring it inside. I don't need more closet space (neither do any of my neighbors), it's just nice to have an extra landing spot in bad weather.

As for the fire hazard, I'm sure the sprinklers in the hallway will take care of any wild burning that my METAL coatrack might incur.

Oh, and the punchline to your distress over our fire code? We had the fire department EMS around last spring when a friend at my party was having an asthma attack ... after they took care of her, a couple of the guys who came back to the party later that night ... hung their bags and jackets out on the landing when they came in.

I don't think people are allowed to take over space that doesn't belong to them and use it for their exclusive use. I think this is true in most situations.

(I have a mother who is always trying to convince me to do this. Put a small bureau and mirror in the rather large and square hallway off the elevator on my floor. I try to explain to her that you can't do that because everyone has different tastes and while I may think it looks good, neighbors may disagree. She says, "But you have good taste!" "That's what everyone thinks!")

Take your shoes inside people.

Coops have things called "house rules" or other such similar names and these rules set out what is and is not allowed in the coop - normally using the public spaces as you describe is forbidden. Consult the rules first and then, if what they are doing is not allowed, confront them. Then, if they don't remove it you'll have to decide whether you want to rat them out to management.

I think it's a safety issue for all sorts of reasons...like tripping, etc. And, (now, keep in mind I can be passive-aggressive) while I wouldn't advocate taking their things, perhaps kicking a shoe or 2 down the stairs might get a message through...though you could talk to them too. Though, if they're so brazen to think they can take over the hallway, chances are they'll think you're nit picking for even bringing it up.

Check your co-op bylaws or whatever...

I'm with Dave! I want him for a neighbour.

Thanks eek. Never ceases to amaze me how people can so much time on their hands that not only do they have enough time to deal with their own lives, but they have enough time to get into a lather over the fact that their neighbor leaves their shoes outside their front door. (The stroller/bicycle issue is an another one entirely.)

And patrick - I don't think its an a priori given that leaving ones shoes (or coat on a rack) is somehow violating the "community" of a building. Its equally plausible to argue that opposite - that getting a cockroach up one's sphincter about a coat peg is a violation of the spirit of "community."

I want to be Dave's neighbor, because then I put my crap in his space and he'll be cool with it.

Dave, are you a proctologist?

so Dave's contributions to this thread include:

1. Yeesh. How many sticks are up peoples butt's these days?
2. Opinions are like a-holes, Curtis.
3. that getting a cockroach up one's sphincter about a coat peg is a violation of the spirit of "community."

talk about "a violation of the spirit of community"

On the hall lights being turned off -- maybe just simply putting a piece of tape over the switch would be enough to keep people from turning it off. That's kind of like the universal sign for "don't mess with this thing" as they'd need to remove the tape to operate the switch.

I didn't realize New Yorkers were so sensitive to salty language. Guess y'alls must be from Park Slope.

Any person in their right mind (that fears for their own safety) would speak to their neighbors first before consulting a site for advice. If you sense a fire hazard the fire dept. would have handed out a summons already. Least that's the way I do things. I can't believe this site is about one of the most heartless, nasty, uptight bunch of morons I've ever encountered. You 'ought try asking your neighbors if they need any help. Make it a point to visit and explain how your concerned for their safety, yours, and others that live there. It's the holiday season and instead of sharing so much hateful advice try sharing a lil bit of your time and compassion for those who may actually need it. Maybe apartmenttherapy.com will give their book as a gift to this family - throw in a couple of things. Maybe others might follow that trend - the trend of giving.

My husband and I own our home and rent out the top floor to some (very, very wonderful) tenants. Because our home is so small, we use a common area for our muddy shoes and raincoats, etc. Our belief is that it is OUR home, and therefore we can treat the common areas however WE want to. However, if our tenants came to us to talk in a reasonable manner about their concerns, we would certainly respond to them. On the other hand, I can tell you that if our tenants tossed out our stuff, or threw our stuff down the stairs, or even complained in some of the irritating ways readers have suggested, it would be a one-way ticket to eviction, or at the very least, non-renewal of the lease. When you live in an apartment building you are part of a community. And, as part of this community, you need to treat others (and especially the OWNER - DUH!) with respect, as you yourself would want to be treated. Do you want a Cold War with your landlord, full of stress, discord and animosity, or do you want a resolution? How would you want to be approached, were the situtuation reversed? Cut your landlord some slack, and go talk to them adult to adult.

I lived for a while in a small apartment building in germany. I never met the neighbors next door, but they kept three pairs of hiking boots outside their door - male, female, and child size. They were beautiful, well-used looking leather boots. Sometimes in bad weather, other shoes would show up too. At christmas time, I opened the door one morning and each pair of boots contained a foil-wrapped chocolate santa. A santa sat by my door as well. It's a small thing, but one of my favorite memories.
An apartment building IS a community.

I think a few pairs of shoes, and what Andi is talking about are different things. There's a difference between "we're going to leave these shoes out here for now" and "hey, let's make the hallway our mudroom."

Dave, for someone with so little time, you yourself have offered a lot of comments.

Meaghan, you OWN that space. Difference with Andi's situation is that EVERYONE owns that space (or a share of it, I guess) so I think it's a different thing.

My personal take is that I hate it when people assume that if they want to do something, it must be okay, and have no consideration for anyone else. I'm not saying these people are evil, but it is pretty presumptuous to install a coat rack. Call me stick-up-the-butt Christine, but I don't see why I must be so much more accommodating of the "community," when it's pretty clear others aren't. I think it's beyond reasonable for Andi to talk to the neighbors....if it were me, I'd say "Hi, I'm Andi, I'm the co-op board president. You know, my friend came over the other day and told me that it's against code to have things in the hallway, and that her condo board/coop board was fined heavily for one of their neighbors' coat racks, so I think you'll have to take it down." Or something like that!

Because, Christine, the coop board WON'T be fined for a coat peg rack on a wall. Period. It is CLEARLY permissible under the New York Housing Maintenance Code. And any coop board member who would claim so would merely be demonstrating their complete ignorance of NYC housing regulations.

Moreover, none of the stick up the butters have yet offered a rationale argument as to how exactly they are being detrimentally affected if their neighbor down the hall installs some coat hooks outside the front door to their unit. Beyond, of course, some completely off-the-wall speculative arguments that it will negatively affect the resale value of their unit.

As for time on one's hand - this cost-less posting on the Interwebs cost me 2 minutes of my time. Not the same thing as taking the time to harrassinate one's neighbors, call the city building inspectors or go complain to the coop board.

I cannot get my head around this desperate attempt to ensure that someone doesn’t end up utilizing more space than they are “entitled” to. Lighten up, have some compassion, accept that there are different ways of living in this world, learn to communicate (about the safety issues -if there are any) and most importantly, please don’t move in next door to me.

Emma, I think your story illustrates the point perfectly.

Dave, I could see the humor in your phrasing.

wanting ones hallways clear of potentially trip-and-fall causing or fire hazardous clutter like coats, piles of shoes, strollers, etc., whether it's against the code or not, and neighbours who abide by their oath (i.e. to follow the house rules) are very rational arguments. my 78 year old neighbour fractured his hip on shoes left in the hallway. his health is rapidly declining and he can no longer walk the neighborhood as he was fond of doing. he's a lovely man whose quality of life is now crap. now, is that fair? pretty detrimental wouldn't you say?

and what's so wronge about being concerned with resale value? i worked my (to continue Dave's euphemism) butt off for my home and it's the biggest (only) financial investment of my life. of course i'm going to be concerned with its value. talk to any broker - having bad neigbours who don't follow house rules, create hazardous eyesores and cause lawsuits, hugely affects unit values.

it sounds like andi is holding up her end and is going to have a simple conversation with a fellow shareholder about house rules. she's not harrassing anyone.

And there we have it folks - the same old divide of the hips vs. the squares. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

Pardon me while I go light a "j", throw Dylan's Blonde on Blonde on the stereo, pop open some Two Buck Chuck and see if eek or emma care to join me.

P.S. Lourdes - I develop multifamily and commercial buildings for a living. Brokers are some of the most uniformed twits out there. There's a reason its so easy to become a broker.

Dave - nyc co-ops are entirely different beasts from what you do.

this square's going to bed. g'night, happy holidays and try to cheer up a bit.

Whatever Lourdes. I've been in the real estate development business for over 12 years. In addition to apartment buildings and commercial buildings, I've also built....gasp...condos. Which are pretty much the same thing as co-ops, outside of some peculiarities around the legal structure of unit ownership (fee simple vs. proprietary lease). And no, the NY real estate market and NY co-ops are not "different" as much as New Yorkers like to believe that. The NYC real estate market is the San Francisco one is the Boston one is the DC one is the LA one is the Chicago one.

So, I think I will take my own advice over that of an amateur's. The residential real estate brokerage industry is filled with far too many morons - in large part as its a field with an incredibly low barrier to entry that during boom times tends to attract a lot of folks who's major skills are smiling and mouthing nonsensical real estate platitudes.

well what do you know, i provided business and legal advice to your industry for just about as long and can say the very same about your colleagues. but i won't.

actually dave, it's not about who you take advice from, it's about andi and frankly, i'm sure andi has heard enough.

well that's interesting, Lourdes. are you related to a broker or something such that my comment got under your skin?

p.S. i'm also an attorney (though now non-practicing thank god), so playing the "harrumph, I'm a smartypants lawyer" card doesn't really work with me.

like i've said, the crab-butts have offered zero reasonable arguments re: coat hooks and shoes in the hallway. its just the hips vs. the squares, or in this case, co-op owners who want it to be their home vs. the uptight co-op owners feeling a need to be bossy to protect their precious invesment.

same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

Why do people post tirades about their own living situations/buttholes/occupations as a way of making an argument against decent common living rules? Stress on the word COMMON here.

There's a reason it's called lowest COMMON denomenator - people don't agree, so it's better off to leave it unsaid, unseen, a non-issue.

Good fences make good neighbors, in the burbs. Clean empty hallways make for good co-op neighbors. Do what you want to do inside your own apt.

I'd consult the tenant policy, then talk to your neighbors, and hope that does the trick. We once had a similar sort in a condo, with a nasty mountain of stinkng shoes. Shoes which are really gross and personal. I tried talking, complaints, etc. and ended up moving them out myself.

It's just bad manners.

It is a violation of NYC housing code.

I strongly advise that you do not try to confront them about this yourself. Clearly, if they feel that they have the right to annex the common area for their own personal use, they are the sort of self-entitled people who would, as Dave said "quickly turn a hose on [you]". Don't bother. Just dial 311, and tell the operator that you would like to make an anonymous complaint with the DOB. Not your problem anymore.

And yes, it could cause a fine to the building.

In practice, they should send an inspector to the building within 30 days. If the condition exisits at the time of the inspection, the DOB will issue a fine to the building itself. Probably about $500. Then the Co-op Board will pass that fine on to the individual responsible for the complaint.

I should say, the individual responsible for the violation.

I'm unclear(and it's possible I missed this somewhere in the comments), but are the shoes/rack/stroller at the end of a hall where no one walks by and you have to look for it to see it, or do folks have to trapse by it? I think that might say something to the family's rudeness level. Or not. They may feel it adds a homey touch.

It's too bad they didn't talk to folks in the building before taking the area over.

As for the baby stroller...as someone who has sprained her ankle being 'ambushed' by one around a corner someone had left outside their door at a friends apartment building -- I definitely think this is something they should be hanging up right INSIDE their door.

Irregardless, check the bylaws. You may need to thnk about the approach on the shoes and coats if that's not covered. But the stroller...that is a legitimate hazard.

Is this thread closed?