apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Hire a professional!
Your untrained eye will not be able to pick up everything that an inspector with years of experience will see.
Any problems that the builing has will eventually lead to higher assessments and "special assesments" on your part.

I was in your shoes a few months ago (first timer, Queens, co-op) - be sure to check your windows (do they open and close easily..) also, the one thing I wish I'd thought to do was check all the outlets to see if they work- i have one that doesn't, and I could have pushed that onto the seller to have fixed before the closing, if I'd known. The seller and super made sure my windows were working before I closed. Also, any ceiling fans or light fixures- they must work.

I had debated bringing in an inspector, as my building has settled and tilts a bit, but in the end, I opted not to. (Did have one bad dream that my top floor apt fell off the building, but otherwise, no regrets on the inspector!)

also, find out if your building allows you to move on the weekends- mine doesn't, but I did. oops.

good luck with it all- its worth it! (what neighborhood, if I may ask?)

Here's what I learned while/after buying my place:

1. Flush the toilet, run the hot water to check that the plumbing internal to the unit is in order.

2. Check the outlets and any outlet to switch connections to verify that the wiring is valid. Turn on/off all the lights/ceiling fans/overhead vents also.

3. Check condition of the walls in the bathroom, kitchen, laundry room (or any other room where you know that major pipes might run through) for water damage. This includes stuff like bubbling or discolored paint and loose tiles. Remember to look under the sinks and around the toilets too.

4. Check out the condition of the floors, if there is/was furniture on it when you viewed it before you should check to make sure that there is nothing that you missed

5. Check any appliances that come with the home. Any ice built up in the fridge? does the stove light?

6. Open and close the windows, check that they don't stick excessively and that they close completely

7. Look inside closets and cupboards for any signs of pests (rat droppings, dead bigs etc.): it is better to avoid inheriting an infestation

hope this helps,
danae.

It depends oh how handy you guys are around the house.. we bought our first condo a few months ago and the advice of the home inspector was invaluable (they do charge less for apartments than independent structures). Helped to identify problems that weren't apparent to us, as well as to apprise the extent of the various repairs, that helped us negotiate with the sellers.

I say, spring for an inspection now and save yourself any nasty surprises later.

I second Danae on opening the fridge. Ours worked, but had been turned off and CLOSED for three months while the owner was upstate and in Florida. I have never smelled anything so putrid in all my life. It wasn't even a fridge we'd have kept, but it forced us into a rushed purchase.

check the age of the wiring in your apartment. look in the breaker box to see if everything is on breakers or fuses.

check the age of the furnace/boiler. anything older than ten years you may want to consider replacing.

find out how well insulated the walls are against the outside of the apartment. if it was a rush job and they aren't well insulated it will bring up your heating costs exponentially. we recently had insulation blown into all our walls this past fall and it drastically reduced how much heat we needed (we didn't have to use plastic on the windows for once.)

if you're on the top floor, check to see if there are any holes in the building that lead into your ceiling. pests can get in there and cause you many sleepless nights of running and wrestling. granted that this would be something the coop board would have to fix but you could potentially bring it up before closing.

and i second all the suggestions above.

If you're asking those kinds of basic questions, you really need to hire your own inspector. They'll look for structural issues and violations of city and state regulations that you simply don't have the time to study on your own.

Don't be cheap when it comes to an expensive and important purchase such as this.

Your lawyer friend is giving you some seriously bad advice.

You want both your unit AND the building as a whole inspected by a pro --- if there are problems with the building (roof, boiler, cracks in the foundation, etc), guess who's paying for it? YOU.

Not getting a professional inspection done (cost = $500) is seriously penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Great comments, thanks all. Danae, great list. Sara, Forest Hills.

The bank (we) already paid for an appraisal and their engineer reviewed the building. So it's pretty much the apartment that I'm interested in.

Get the inspector. Better to cough up the $500 now than the possibly thousands later. Ask around. We ended up with a terrible one (the one scheduled couldn't make it and we got a sub). After he's done MAKE him take you around to show you what he's talking about.

I'm not sure about laws in NYC, but get the current owner/s to open all locked doors that come with the apartment, so the inspector can look in them. Usually inspectors aren't allowed to open locked things.

Make sure the current owner/s leave you a map of which light switches go with what overhead light/or socket. It will lessen headaches later.

Second the penny wise-pound foolish statement.

I bought a coop in DC about one year ago - Danae's advise is good. Even if it's not worth fighting over, knowing how things work before you move is worth it. Read the by-laws carefully and feel free to call management to further explain what is covered and what is not.
Also .. I had a professional review the co-op's budget. You should have gotten this with teh by-laws for review when your offer was accepted. Co-ops can be great, but they are notoriously poorly managed. You do want to see what is up finacially before buying.
My co-op had a professional analysis of the conditions of the facilities and their life-span done about 2 years ago - very important in buildings over 20 years old.
In addition, we have a budget and reserves that plan for investments in the facilities (new roof two years ago, new windows last year)based on the professional anaylsis (follow-thru is very good) .... and emergancies (such as leaks in the HVAC ducts last summer) -- and we've had no special assessments!!
I did put an offer on another property prior to the one I bought and their finances where a mess. I was very happy to pull out - and very happy now and they just were hit with another big assessment.

My fiancee and I just bought a condo in March and we were required by the mortgage company to get it inspected. Even without that I'm glad we did. He pointed out problems that I would have never known to look for and we were able to get them fixed by the sellers before we closed.

I would also recommend seeing if you can get a home warranty on the new place. This means that the seller has to purchase the plan (usually about $400) and they are responsible if some of the major things - air conditioning, water heater, etc. - go wrong within that first year. This is all assuming you have independent systems for your unit like our condo does. We haven't needed it yet, but it's nice to know it's there if you need it.

Hire an inspector. Seriously - it's the best money I spent on my two purchases (neither of which were co-ops, but still). Besides looking at all of the stuff that other folks have mentioned, a good one should be able to tell you how to deal with maintenance issues in your unit - like, "hey, this water heater of yours looks like it's about 10 years old and they usually last for 15 years, so every year check X thing on it" and so on. Plus the electrical stuff is great - if outlets aren't grounded, you won't want to be plugging your electrical equipment into them, so you'll want it fixed. (Note: just because a receptacle can take a three-pronged plug doesn't mean it's grounded.) And so on and so forth.

This is a bit random, but when I did the final walk-through for my apartment 6 months ago, I noticed the previous owner had taken the fire alarm/carbon monoxide detector with him. I mentioned it in the closing and the seller gave me $60 bucks for a new one.

It looks to me as though most of these posters do not own cooperative apartments in New York City.

For better or for worse, the way it works in the rarified world of cooperative apartments, is that no one does inspections. (I was on a coop board of my building for years, and have also bought two apartments). If you insist on one, the seller will simply think you're being a jerk. And, you're unlikely to have any negotiating power, regardless of what you find.

Your lawyer is correct: house inspections are simply not part of the NY cooperative purchase process. If you opt for it, it will be solely for personal edification (especially if your contract says "as is," as nearly all of them do).

I agree with Alex- if the building's finances are in good shape, the stuff your inspector would find will be covered.

Would an old boiler prevent you from buying this apt? Life is filled with risk- I think you have to ask your gut- do you trust the seller, the agent, your lawyer? Will knowing the problems of your older building keep you from buying? Hell, i know my building is old, but my lawyer studied the budget and finances and figured they have enough money to cover the eventuals and upkeep. I trusted my lawyer immensely, and he did his homework.

Your lawyer (or you?) can get the minutes to co-op meetings and see for yourself what goes on in the building.

Hire and inspector- it is well worth the cost!

I closed on a co-op in Queens in Oct. 2005 and did not hire an inspector, choosing instead to 'inspect' the place myself and with the help of my realtor mom. Turns out- we didn't have the clarity or distance from the excitement of the situation do a good job. I entirely missed doing basic things like turning on the applicances, and testing all of the outlets..

The owners were also unwilling to negotiate on the few items that I did bring up at the closing- post my final walk-thru. It was an all around non-pleasant situation.

So I ended up not eating the cost to repair or replace the following:

* missing window screens, windows that do not fully open
* electrical outlets that do not work
* stove + refridgerator that needed to both be replaced
* bathroom vanity that was rotting
etc..

Good luck!

This is great advice even for renters (not the professional inspection part, but the checking facilities part) I am sorry I didn't in several places I rented. This time around I did, and it helped me know what I was getting myself into or keeping myself out of.

Maria, out of curiosity, are contracts not allowed to be written with exceptions? Is that the contract with the seller or with the coop board (excuse my ignorance...I'm totally unfamiliar with coops). My reaction would be "who cares" if the seller thinks I'm a jerk.

I do not have a suggestion. I just wanted to point out that Paul is not following the rules which clearly state to "Include a pic of your problem."

In the pic that he submitted she is certainly not a problem! ; )

Get an inspection. I bought a coop in Brooklyn and we inspected both the unit and the building itself - roof, basement, walls, etc. I learned a lot about the buildings' systems and although the seller refused to change one item, at least I knew about it before going into contract. Note, my friends who had all purchased brooklyn coops also got inspections.

THis is probably the biggest investment you have ever made, what is $500 more dollars?

I agree with Maria. In a co-op, anything inside the walls (except plumbing) is the co-op's responsibility. The vast majority of people do not get inspections for co-ops, though it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing.

Danae's list probably covers it, to be honest. It wouldn't hurt to have the electrical checked, but the wiring is ancient in most co-ops anyway, and the seller is not going to rewire.

Are you kidding me? It's a few hundred dollars. How much is a NY apartment? With friends like that.....

Maria's comment seems the most valid for a purchase in NYC. The bank (if you have a mortgage) is not going to give you a mortgage w/o an appraisal which includes an inspection of the apartment/building. I did not hire an inspector for my recent purchase in Queens and I am glad I saved a few bucks...more money to reno the place. Folks also need to remember there is a great difference between a coop and a condo.

Maria and Sunshine have an interesting point. Of course, building repairs are covered by the coop managment/board.

But WHO pays those coop managment fees? YOU do.
The last thing you want to do is move into a building that has, or will have in the near future, a special assessment for repairs.

So what if people think you are pushy for getting an inspection? If there is a problem with getting an inspection, do you really want to live there?

I've been reading "The New York Co-op Bible" by Sylvia Shapiro (it also covers condos). If I recall correctly she firmly recommends hiring your own inspector.

Paul wrote:
> Our lawyer/friend tells us that it's
> not necessary to hire an inspector...

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

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HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

HIRE AN INSPECTOR!!!

Then question the qualifications of this so-called lawyer, and reconsider how much they are really a friend.

Sara points out the time-honored way that NYC coop buyers protect themselves: they have their attorneys carefully inspect the coop board minutes and annual report. The records of the coop are located in the office of the managing agent of the building.

If there is a major structural problem with the building (leaking in the roof, boiler problems, lawsuits) it will turn up in the coop board's records. It can be difficult to distinguish routine problems from more serious ones, but an experienced attorney who has handled co-op closings will know how to do it.

I think the primary concern should be whether your attorney has this sort of experience.

you don't need an inspector if it is an apartment in a building that is not a small brownstone... the details of the building (good and bad) will be in the minutes that your lawyer is required to read by law. it will include any upcoming repairs, recent repairs and problems the building might have. also, you can check out the building on the department of building website... if there have been any problems it will all be there. good luck and congratulations!

As a part time RE person in NJ, I would never, ever, ever, tell a client/customer I was working with/for not to hire an inspector prior to closing.

Your making big assumptions about the professionalism of Coop Boards. Most Coop Boards are usually simply made up of a few people that live in the building, and are usually novices at this stuff themselves. It also depends greatly on the neighborhood you're buying into. There are very few bad neighborhoods left in Manhattan, but many were quite bad neighborhoods only ever so recently. Many of these buildings can be a hundred or more years old. If a problem doesn't show up on the minutes, it doesn't mean it's not there. It likely means that the building hasn't been maintained properly in... in decades perhaps? The "rely on your attorney to find it in the minutes" approach may work if your buying into some upscale property on the Upper East Side where good records and solid management have likely existed for many many years. In other neighborhoods this is not likely to be the case. Besides all that, if you're buying in the city, you're probably plopping down $500k+ at the very least. Get an inspection. You're talking about $500. This should be an absolute no brainer.

I'm biased because I work for a firm that does inspection work. (I'm not an inspector, I do IT for them.)

I work for Criterium Engineers (http://www.criterium-engineers.com) - we've got offices across the country. There's an office locator on our site too.

Go to our site and look around at some of the articles there. They'll help. Even if you don't get someone from our company.

Okay, I'm done shilling, but I can't stress enough how important an inspection is.

Sure it'll add to your up-front costs. But it's better to find problems now than to find them later.

At the least, check out NABIE (www.nabie.org) - The National Association of Building Inspection Engineers.

A professional engineer (that has the PE after their name) is better than a general inspector because they're licensed by the states. Any idiot can call himself a home inspector.

I hope that helps a little.

P.S. Get everything in writing. Especially when dealing with coops, associations, real estate agents (especially these people), and lawyers. If it's not on paper, it was never really said.

What I find perplexing about this thread is the apparent ignorance about the most fundamental facts of buying a NYC apartment (this is a NYC-based board about apartments, after all...):

1) The dominant legal structure for NYC apartment buildings is the cooperative (over 80%).

2) Owners in a cooperative do not possess real property. They own shares in a corporation. The structure resembles that of a club, rather than a condominium;

3) Many cooperative buildings in NYC are very old (many as much as a century old). They were, for the most part, previously rental buildings, and were converted to co-ops. They are often run down. It is often difficult to get 100 to 200 apartment owners (in a large building) to agree to move forward on a major repair.

4) With the exception of the wealthiest buildings in Manhattan, there is considerable pressure to keep maintenance costs as low as possible. This frequently results in neglect of things like roofs and brick-pointing and boilers. These things are expensive, and members of the corporation are often reluctant to allocate the funds;

5) Individual member of the corporation (the coop) have little say as to whether the roof gets fixed, or the boiler is replaced.

If you feel uncomfortable with this structure, you shouldn't buy a coop. If you're unfamiliar with the complexities of this structure, you shouldn't be weighing in here.

One reason an inspection is of dubious value, is because many of the problems (windows, wiring) are in the domain of the cooperative. The seller may be powerless to fix them, as will the new owner.

6)

Me, the bank requires an inspection of the building itself, so if there are major repairs needed, you would know. People also need to do due diligence, which in our case involved pouring over building financials (as did our lawyer and an accountant) and reading old board meeting notes, which can be very revealing.

The reserve pays for building repairs, and you shouldn't move into a building without a substantial reserve.

I'm not saying don't get an inspection, but as Maria points out, in a co-op, a lot of things are out of your control. You cannot just rewire because you think your electric needs updating.

As a nyc condo buyer who also knows the coop market very well, I agree with Maria and others who talk about how very different the nyc coop market and process is and how little an inspection can usually help you.

However, at the risk of sounding like Jessica with the one strand of asbestos is guaranteed to lead to a horrible, agonizing death comment, read this thread about a coop that apparently did not get good advice or was not managed well (I don't honestly know), and where a good inspector may have warned the buyer not to buy:

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/01/05/the_hole_situation_update_yelling_at_the_castle_wall.php

I'm not wholly familiar with the co-op process, but last week was in a coop board meeting in DC for a beautiful building on Conneticut Ave. Apparently it converted in the 70s and they hadn't been building up adequate reserves for years. 800K for a new roof, which hadn't been refurbished since 1913, a solid foot of tightly packed birds' nests, glass bottles, bricks, twigs, trash all collected under the slate for 90 years. Assessments are going from 3K per month to 8K for at least the next 36 months to pay for the roof and build up reserves for upgrading electrical in the future, cleaning the asbestos from the dumbwaiters, and restoring the stucco facade. These folks had money to burn but they weren't happy about it.

Back on topic, does anyone else know any good resources or checklists online on apartment inspections?

Any other things to look for and check would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Ok, I will now morph into the beloved (and departed???) Jonathan.

Oh dear Maria: get a grip! I love your condescending and know it all tone. Please. Honey, almost everyone on this site is a New Yorker. "What I find perplexing about this thread is the apparent ignorance about the most fundamental facts of buying a NYC apartment (this is a NYC-based board about apartments, after all...)" Gimme a break.

Anyone who spends $500k+++ on a major purchase without doing their research is a TOTAL AND COMPLETE MORON.

Yes, honey, we all know that there is very little you can do to force repairs in a coop. BUT, no one is forcing you to buy it in the first place!

Anyone who buys real estate without an inspection needs to have his/her moronic head examined.

me,
no need to be rude. You may be surprised to find you can still get great apartments for less than $250k. And, if you, like me, are doing this kind of purchase on your own, you might find that extra $500 coming in handy for your closing costs, after plunking down 20% or more for your down payment.

I just went through all this in March and am by no means an expert, but I think a walk-thru inspection is just that, and it isn't critical to bring in an expert. A calm 3rd party who will remind you to check the windows and outlets- yes, but an engineer? not generally needed. The lawyer is essential in checking the financials of the co-op (and required by NY law.)

I'm not a moron, I'm a home-owner!

Paul,

You said, "Prior to closing we will be inspecting the apartment." This sounds like you're talking about the final walk-through, which is generally scheduled right before the closing. If that's the case, the seller isn't expecting you to come to the closing with big negotiating points. This "inspection" is for the smaller points that can be cured with a personal check (such as the missing fire alarm/carbon monoxide detector Jane mentioned).

If you decide to hire an inspector, you should schedule it as far before the closing as possible. Then any big items can be negotiated against the sale price. Otherwise, you may find the closing date has to be postponed, and that's just another aggravation that can cost you money.

Good luck! A first purchase is nerve wracking, but well worth all the trouble.

FYI, I bought a co-op and negotiated over $15,000 after my inspection...
Do not overlook this important leveraging tool. Nothing like an expert saying things - your sellers cannot argue what is in the report.

i haven't read all the comments here, and i'm not a co-op owner myself, but i have a friend who recently bought into a small, old, and relatively rundown co-op. he, too, was advised not to get an inspector because 'nobody does that'.

he now quite literally has a major headache on his hands as it turns out the restaurant in the ground-floor retail space of his building installed their exhaust fans incorrectly which causes the walls and ceilings of his top-floor apartment to vibrate both visibly and audibly. yes, this is something the co-op is technically responsible for. but there are like 5 active members of the board, of which he's the only one who actually cares. and because the restaurant owners aren't exactly Good People and the board isn't exactly jumping at the chance to spend money on this, the whole issue of who should repair the fans has been tied up in court forever.

had he just gotten the inspector, he likely could have been saved from closing on this place.

spring for an inspector. it's worth every penny. also get the home warrantee. our real estate agent paid for it out of his commission...and it came in handy.

I just bought a condo and had it inspected by a pro. It was definitely worth it -- he found things we never would have, like reversed polarity on 2-3 outlets, uncapped unused water pipes, how our bathroom pipes were old (and thus have mineral build-up, making the water pressure lower), and how our walls were all made of plaster (nailing/hanging issues). IMO, it's better to have a pro find the (potential) problems now, rather than stumble upon them unexpectedly in the future.

I wholeheartedly suggest an inspector. But, I also suggest getting a referral from someone who has also purchased a property or a realtor, someone you trust. I bought a condo and my agent recommended someone. That particular inspector was busy when I wanted to do the walk-through so I went with one of his employees. Turned out that the inspector I hired missed a WHOLE LOTTA STUFF and it cost me a few thousand bucks. The original referral (the manager of the company) came in after the deal was done (and the nasty discovered) and admitted that his company screwed up. He gave me the money back for the inspection but the fact was that I still bought a lemon (which is MUCH better now though). In fact, it's a good idea to have the manager or owner of the inspection company come do the work him/herself. They have more at stake (reputation, business, etc) if something gets fouled up.

Don't forget to check the stove. My gas had been turned off just before my signing and then I had to pay way to much to have someone come out and turn it back on.

Hire an inspector. It is worth it.

Also, check under rugs, if the unit has hardwood floors. When we bought ours, the previous owners had "hidden" a huge plank in the floor - running the opposite direction, a horrible diy repair from when the unit was converted to forced air. We could have tried to negotiate a lower price because it will cost $500+ to get the floor professionally fixed.

Hire the inspector and go over the finances carefully. My inspector found some wiring issues that I would have missed. An inspection I had done on another condo turned up dryrot in the exterior siding, which the condo association is responsible for. Turned out they didn't have enough reserve to fix this down the road. I was able to get out of the contract because of this. Buying a home can be very emotional, just make sure that doesn't override common sense.

I have a coop in Kew Gardens- you do not need an inspection. When you negotiate the price for the apt you take into consideration any expenses you may have due to the negligence of the current owner. In my case I cut $10k becoz the kitchen appliances didn't work. The only surprise I got was that I needed new wiring to the kitchen when I remodeled. It cost about $1500. The reality is that the seller could easily reject your bid and go to another buyer who won't require an inspection so you have to factor in potentially losing the apt. Most coop repairs are not going to cost a fortune becoz, as posted eariler, the board is responsible for behind the wall things.

You should review coop board meeting minutes to see what building projects are being scheduled and if an assessment is coming up.

I have to second Marcelle. The reason you usually need to rewire when remodeling is because you move appliances, which an inspector can't exactly predict anyway. Wiring in old building tends to be very tight.

If you are buying a luxury co-op, an inspector may give you bargaining power, but if not, I honestly don't think it helps that much.

But go with whatever makes you feel most secure, since it's nerve-wracking to buy a place. I think Danae gave a good list, but it's your call.

I'm not sure how useful an inspector will be for a coop unless he can inspect the whole building. Coops and condos are different so what I am about to say only applies to coops. I've been on the board of my last two coops and one thing I can tell you straight from the horse's mouth is you want to see a reserve fund with enough available cash to replace the roof, boiler and elevator at one time if need be. If there isn't enough to do all three at one time you want to see when the roof was last replaced. Roofs usually have a warantee of 25 years. The reserve fund and also look at how frequently the maintenance is raised and if there have been any assessments recently or there are any planned assessments. The seller is legally obligated to provide you with the correct information on all counts.

Hire an inspector. First, an inspector knows what current code is. If you're planning to "fix" anything, you must bring it up to code. Second, an inspector can spot issues with systems--HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc. which the coop is NOT responsible for updating or fixing. (That, by the way, is a misnomer.) Your friend may be a lawyer, but when you're buying or selling, you should hire a real estate lawyer. Good luck, you'll LOVE homeownership!

Ask to see the past two years minutes of any members association.

Maria wrote:
> If you feel uncomfortable with this structure,
> you shouldn't buy a coop.

Um, that kind of flies in the face of your previous fact- That 80% of New York residential real estate is Coop, which means that 80% of people don't have a choice. Thats' simply what is for sale. The Coop structure of incorporation should simply be made illegal, as is the case in almost every other state... but that's a whole other subject all together.

> One reason an inspection is of dubious value, is because many
> of the problems (windows, wiring) are in the domain of the
> cooperative. The seller may be powerless to fix them, as will
> the new owner.

You seem to be overlooking the most important reason to have the place inspected- you could find out information that would persuade you to get out of the deal completely.

I owned a coop & had an inspection before I bought.
No one questioned it, and he found a few things wrong in the apt I wouldn't have noticed notice (outlet wired wrong).
Beside that, he found things about my building & apt that were exceptional for NYC, which made me feel better about my purchase.

I recently sold, knowing I'd had an inspection & everything would be fine.

It's worth the knowledge and, when all goes well, the peace of mind.
Maybe your lawyer just wants the sale to go quickly?

Better to protect yourself & know exactly what you're buying.

Jill

I'd like to support both Maria and those arguing the other side here. I am not sure Maria is arguing against inspections - I think she's talking about the convention. When I bought a co-op last summer, my broker - from one of the major, major firms - brushed off my inspection questions and told me it isn't really done in Manhattan. I have heard friends and relatives say the same. Furthermore, my lender did not require an inspection.

In terms of damage to the apartment itself, the real estate market in this borough - which is admittedly changing - hardly lent itself to buyers demanding changes/updates of sellers. In general, it was take it or leave it - and decide quickly, on top of it.

That said, whomever replied that you ARE the co-op that's responsible for structural/building issues is not kidding. My attorney did review the co-op minutes for these types of problems - but did not catch everything, most notably a short-term interest-only mortgage foolishly taken out by the previous board as we headed into a period of rising rates, which will require an expensive refinancing and a maintenance increase.

Your broker may well advise against an inspection for the apartment itself and that's frankly up to you. In my opinion, the bigger potential pitfalls down the road are co-op-oriented in nature, so if I were you I'd ensure that at very bare minimum your attorney reviews the minutes with a fine-toothed comb and that you ask to see the results of any recent inspections.

what about new construction? do you guys think it's required/recommended in a brand new building? (still a co-op?)

I am so glad to have stumbled onto this web site. I am recently considering buypassing getting an inspector for a condo I plan to buy soon, but now I think I will go ahead and order one.

I am about to sign a contract with the seller for a 5 story condo in south Queens (Howard Beach NYC) for a little under $210K. The building itself has been around since 1965 and from my review of the financials, the Special Assessments don't seem too high (a little under 200K for 2004 and 2005). The Condo Board has a reserve of an extra $40K left after the 2004 year.

I plan to represent myself at the closing (ha, yes go ahead and laugh, but I am a new attorney). I already have a few partners at my law firm who plan to help me along, but would anyone recommend an inspector for Queens condos that does a GOOD job?? Whose referrals should I trust?

Thanks,

-new condo buyer and esq.

I live in Indiana, and am in the process of starting my own apartment inspection business. I will print out all of your comments and enjoy them. But for those interested, whether for purchase or just for rental, you should have an independent inspector look for and document any problems that may come back to haunt the naive tenant. Until a layoff, I worked as a move-out inspector for one of the largest apartment complexes in Chicago.

Some landlords know what's wrong with their apartments and will stick it to the tenant when it comes time to move. Kiss your security deposit goodby! To be fair to the landlord, we know that some tenants can also be jerks and ruin an apartment. Sometimes, it's just a matter of assessing damage for candle wax on the carpet, or something minor. Other times, there may be hidden damage that only a trained professional will see.

If the independent inspector will take digital pictures and put these in the report, this will put to rest most arguments, or perhaps a trip to small claims court.

I am happy to have come across this site. I will be looking for others like it to learn from them. Hope this info helps.

I have a question. I am in the process of purchasing a coop, the seller is requiring that I put 10% of the purchasing price in escrow once the contracts are negotiated and signed. The only way I will be able to get my escrow balance back is if I am denied by the coop board. I decide to pull out of the deal I forefit my money. Is this typical practice when purchasing a coop?