apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Sorry to follow a good question with a dumb one, but I'm intrigued by your comment, "we would rather turn a bed into a living area when necessary (by building the bed platform right out to the walls - see below)." I'm not sure the photo you have here illustrates your point -- you mean you just let the bed take up the entire floor square-footage of the room, and conduct all business on top of it? I assume shoes would need to be removed in such a set-up!

I am sort of torn about flod-up beds, but there are ones out there that are better looking that others. the ones at flyingbeds.com/14.BunkBed/EuroFlyingBeds.htm for example are not hideous. I personally find it hard to imagine cleaning off my desk to go to sleep, but others may be more ordered like that. I have another link for similar beds that were more straightforward - folded up it was just a wall panel - I am still looking for that one.

Flod-up. Ha ha.

Anyway - found the other link. It's bonbon.co.uk/clei/index.htm

It's a British company, so I am not clear on what it would take to get them in the US.

I think I remember seeing the tablebed costs around $3,000. Also, if I remember correctly, it's particle board and laminate.

I don't know where you'd buy them in the US, but I've been loving the fold up beds on www.clei.it, and the sleeper and hideaway solutions on www.campeggisrl.it.

The Italians (and Japanese) seem to have it all over us in the compact living department.

funny this should come up, because just last week I posted an ad here for a giant canvas wallhanging/painting i have for sale (still available! see the AT Classifieds) which we originally bought in order to use as a sort of murphy bed.

We mounted the "painting", then done up sorta kandinsky-esque, from a beam in the ceiling close to the wall. During the day, we would prop our mattress against the wall where it would be obsured by the "painting". Each night we'd hike the painting up and attach it to the ceiling with hooks and drop the bed down.

A bit of a pain, sure, but it did free up floor space while lending some arty ambiance all the same!

I've been engaged in an ongoing debate with a good friend about the real space-savingvalue of a Murphy bed, which he finally ordered. I think it sort of creates "false space" since you have to keep the bed's footprint clear during the day, in anticipation of bringing the bed down every night. I do like the sample shown here because of the table multi-function it adds. There was another sample shown here not too long ago whihc incorporated sort of a banquette seat into the upright position, whihc I also thought was smart and useful. In a truly small studio, I'd be more inclined to invest in a high-quality sofa bed.

Another friend of mine had a Murphy bed installed, but she uses the dayrime floorspace as playspace for her soon-to-be-toddler, so the "void" sort of makes sense to me in that respect.

The lead time for Murphy beds in the city seems to be pretty long (though not much worse than "typical" furniture delivery windows). But my friend without the baby has had cracks develop in his cabinet doors pretty soon after installation.... WAY too soon, considering the prices charged for the enclosing cabinetry...

Here's my murphy in animated html . . .
All custom to match my cabinetry-- amazing way to maximize space in my 450 sq ft. studio. I love it. Give's me extra space when I entertain and is seamlessly integrated into the design.

look at chelsea studio for all pics. It was a dive, but utilizes some of the best space-saving techniques I've seen.

P

www.danlansner.com/resid.html

click on my name above for automatic html.

The manufacturers website for the TableBed is www.inovallc.com. The unit is freestanding which is a huge feature for those people who do want to attach something to their wall or floor. Also they have another Sofa Wallbed product that serves two functions also. They are based in Manhattan but ship everywhere. I have a TableBed in my NYC Studio and love it. I don't use it every day as a desk. But I do entertain alot and it is nice to be able to have people walk in and think its a one bedroom! We can actually eat and play bridge at a table like real people! haha

PS. I forgot to address the question about comfort. You can buy a mattress from them or buy your own mattress. I have a Sealy 9" mattress with an additional 1" pillow top attachment. Very comfortable! Some of their products also come standard with a slat system that they said was a space saving sub for a boxspring. As far as lead time is concerned, mine was shipped in two-three weeks.

One advantage of the murphy over the sofa bed is that you can keep all the bedding in place when it's folded up. For a Manhattanite's small apartment, you don't need to worry about storing the bedding during the day. For a suburbanite, a murphy bed is great for guest bedroom so you can double duty the room.

Does anyone know how much this table-bed costs? Also, I'm having a hard time imagining how it could be stable without being attached to the wall or floor...

I've been involved with the selection of 3 different Murphy beds, and they're ALL fantastic.

---My first one, in my old apartment, for which the sales guy was perfectly willing to come to my apartment and take measurements, because I wanted it to fit in with the frame moldings on the walls, and I wanted it to be the exact height of the picture rail. I did the panel kind for that one, because it had the most uninterrupted flat space on it so it would fit in with the wall. However, that kind is a bit heavier to take down, because of the enormous slab of MDF on the front.

---The one for a friend of mine who lives in a brownstone, for which we selected the bi-fold doors in an old-fashioned paneled style, which mimicked the built-in shutters that were inset into the window niches. Very easy to take down, because once you open those bi-fild doors, the bed itself is very light.

---My current one which was quite a lot of money, but completely worth every penny, because it has a built-in dresser and bookshelves on each side and shallower bookshelves on the front of it, which slide on a track to each side. It looks like kind of a lot of work to open, but it's not, and then, once again, the bed itself is light.

All three of them are great-looking, and my friend and I both happily take them down every night and put them up each morning, because the space they save is fantastic in a studio apartment. In fact, if it's a fairly decent-sized studio apartment, it makes you feel like you're in a VERY decent-sized bedroom by night, and then you still have a decent-sized living space by day.

My friend rents his place, and mine have been co-ops that I owned, but seriously, you CAN have them uninstalled and move them with you, because they're just connected to the floor with a couple of bolts. The only thing is that your lease may require you to leave anything that's screwed in. Depending on your relationship with your landlord, and whether he'll think it's a capital improvement, etc., you might be able to make some kind of deal with him when you leave, or something.

Seriously, when I was apartment shopping this last time, I decided against a one-bedroom, because they all felt MORE claustrophobic than the decent-sized studio I ended up buying and putting the Murphy bed into.

Meanwhile, I'm not The Princess And The Pea, so I'm not really all that picky about which particular mattress I sleep on - I basically wanted something fairly firm. But I know that for most Murphy beds, those very thick mattresses DON'T work, so I opted to buy mine THROUGH the place that sold it to me, because I knew they wouldn't sell me one that wouldn't work for it. It also made for fewer actual deliveries, which made sense to me.

Not every person who walks into your studio apartment is there for sex, so it's kind of nice to have the space look like a civilized living room, when you're not sleeping. And there really is no end to how many different styles they can make the cabinets in. In fact, you can have almost anything made that you can dream up, draw, or otherwise convey to them. By the way, if you can stand the cost, you can get them with automated systems that go up and down at the touch of a button.

They're a real investment in stretching your real estate dollar, and there's something very New York about it, so when you have out-of-town guests, they will probably get quite a kick out of seeing it.

- Curtis

My spouse & I are murphy bed converts. We were both really skeptical at first, & afraid of breaking our bed, but now we wouldn't go back even if we had the extra space. We love the open space feel & she uses the extra room for yoga, stretching & playtime with our dog.

Plus our dog isn't able to lay on the bed all day when we are away. The apartment feels a lot fresher too since you can clean "under the bed" with the regular weekly cleaning. In a studio apartment, a murphy can be a relationship saver-- it feels like you are getting an extra room because the space the bed normally takes up isn't wasted during the day. Plus, you can have parties in a studio apartment & feel like you have space for your guests. I like the idea of making a bed into an entertaining space, but not all apartments really work for this space-wise.

For modern design buffs, you can buy the Clei beds mentioned above at Design & Comfort here in New York City- www.designandcomfort.com/-440 Park Avenue South  at the corner of 30th & Park Avenue South. The London based Clei (www.bonbon.co.uk/clei/index.htm) will be making a queen size wall bed for export to the U.S. in April. We are ordering one for our new place. These really are the most attractive modern-style murphy beds on the market & they will take a normal real bed mattress. They aren't the cheapest, however.

Our former murphy bed was gorgeous with a mirror on the front-- it was regularly mistaken for an armoire. We love it, but it is too classic looking for the style of our new place. The worst part of murphy beds is how ugly they can be in announcing themselves. No one ever knew our murphy was there, it felt really organic to the space. These folks offer some alternatives & can accomodate an extra deep mattress to make up for not having a box spring--www.bedderway.com/custom.htm or for home page www.bedderway.com/.

Bedder Way use to deliver & do free installation, but have temporary stopped driving to NYC. (fyi- they plan to start again next year). For those who can't wait, good news is they ship anywhere in the U.S. for $150! These are quality real wood beds from a company in Indiana. You won't find stuff like this in NYC, most everything is wood veneer that will warp. Plus, they are way, way cheaper than most anything here in the City.

Case in point, the Inova Bed. Buyer beware, these warp badly & don't last much longer than a bed from West Elm. Maybe the trick is to use the bed as a display piece only. When we were first started looking at getting a murphy, I looked at a few listed by Craiglisters that were practically brand new-- all were more wavy than 70's op art wallpaper.

As a side note, I think the wall panel bed is highly preferable to murphy bed that has doors with a bed inside. These feel a lot like a bad couch bed with only the metal bars for supports. With the wall panel, the mattress is supported by an entire piece of wood, so don't get that painful slants in the back & butt feeling.

Other links of possible interest..
www.foldingbeds.com/wallbed7.htm
www.modernwallbeds.com/
www.murphybedcreateaspace.com/

-- Jenny

I'm still at a loss as how to respond to Curtis' comment "Not every person who walks into your studio apartment is there for sex."

Mike, I bought my Tablebed for $2500. I checked out the Clei units but they were around $6k. The mattress was also only 5" and did not look comfortable. My tablebed is rock solid and weight about 600 pounds. Don't worry about stability. If you are in NYC you can check it out at Foremost furniture on 30th street. A couple of months ago my girlfriend wanted to "redecorate" so I got a friend and pushed the Tablebed to the other side of the room. Try moving another murphy bed in 2 minutes! Also, the tablebeds come in maple also, not just laminate.

Jenny, you are dead wrong about the Inova bed warping. I have had zero problems with the tablebed and use it daily. I also stayed at a hotel that had one (that's how I found out about them) and asked them how they held up and the hotel manager raved about their durability. They've had them for several years.

Well, Jack, I've seen several less than a year old here in NYC that were incredibly warped. Don't know what else to say, didn't mean to insult your bed. Maybe there is a big difference between Inova's Broadway Series in melamine & the Symphony Series in veneer. Glad that you had a good experience with yours though. I like the design myself.

Jenny, thanks for the reply. Fundamentaly, solid wood will warp and change shape more than a veneer product over particle board. I'm an engineer by trade and work with a lot of wood products. So from a construction standpoint, I would never buy a product that moves (transitions) like a murphy bed if it was solid wood.

Anyway, what you may have mistaken for warping was the mirrors. I made sure to ask them before I bought the product, what the thickness of the mirror was because i was concerned about it breaking, etc. . . they were actually going through a design change to make it thicker because the thin mirror was sometimes creating a "fun house" affect. The mirror itself was getting a little "wavey" but it is on a seperate panel from the bed so it has not functional affect anyway . . . but I'm glad they corrected that before I received mine.

I just want to say that I love, love, love my murphy bed. I live in a very small NYC studio, and it allows me to have a real living space. In regards to what Patrick said about "false space," I put castors on my coffee table so I can easily move it out of the way of the bed when it comes down. I bought my bed through the original Murphy bed company www.murphybedcompany.com/, and thought they were great. The folks who are up near the D&D building on 58th street seemed very shady to me, and wouldn't give me an estimate in writing. I would avoid them. Also, for owners, it's worth noting that a murphy bed is not considered a capital improvement, so you can't write it off.

I'm curious about getting Murphy bed units into the typical NYC apartment since they look fairly large and unwieldy - do they fit into the typical building elevator? Can you manage to get them up stairwells?

"Fundamentaly, solid wood will warp and change shape more than a veneer product over particle board. "

True statement, but in my experience solid wood furniture

A. Can be repaired, refinished and re-used.
B. Tends not to shatter.
C. Looks better 30 years later, the dings and scratchs of outrageous fortune can be sanded or don't look so dire
D. Weighs less, for equal strength.

Can't tell you how much older particle board furniture I've seen that's no longer nicely usuable because a corner got knocked off, or the hardware ripped an unrepairable crater out under an unusual stress, etc...

All things that in solid wood, or even decent veneered plywood if the ply is kept to the flat surfaces, is rare.

all of the wallbeds i have researched on the west coast screw into the wall

i think they also take an 11inch mattress --- which means tempurpedic could fit. yeah.

for me - i only wanted to put my bed away when i use my loft for business and also gain some storage with the extra built ins on the sides. so i desire something aesthetically pleasing and nice to sleep on/in which i find a little difficult but as my friend says to me... "you sleep with your eyes closed don't you.?"

i am now thinking of a chinese wedding bed - i like the room within the room idea. i find it strange/difficult sleeping in so much open space. and i worry about wild nights on a wallbed - i can just see ripping the bed right out of the wall.

Curtis, I enjoyed your post. Regarding mattress thickness, I take it the unit would not fold up properly if you had one of those "mattress toppers" or whatever they're called on top of the regular mattress? Paula

Laura -
I was told that my Murphy Bed was a capital improvement since I owned my apartment and they didn't charge me sales tax when I provided proof. But as far as writing off, I was only able to count my first one as an expense toward the difference in what I made on the sale of the apartment, or something. I can't remember the technicalities. And actually that 58th Street location is where I bought this last one, but it was a floor model that I fell in love with, and I really didn't want to wait until they made me one just like it, and I was thrilled when they finally gave in to my begging them to sell me that very one. So, they didn't seem shady to me, but we had a slightly different way we were buying it, apparently. I think they've moved a couple of blocks away from there by now, by the way.

Doug-
I can only vouch for the Murphy Beds I've bought, but they're delivered in pieces, and they're assemble onsite by a different guy than the ones that deliver it, and trust me my old apartment had a VERY funky doorway which made my loveseat difficult to deliver there, but NOT my Murphy Bed! Oh, I just realized you mentioned stairwells; mine went up a service elevator, but I think that the stairwell thing would just be a hassle for which they might charge you extra, but probably not a serious obstacle.

By the way, another friend who I talked into getting a Murphy Bed found a place online that's based out of Utah, and he loves his -- it's actually solid wood, etc. and beautiful, and was a very reasonable price, but he had to assemble it himself, and there was some part that had to ordered, because he accidentally broke it, or something.

Also, someone mentioned how they're screwed in; the ones I've dealt with in NYC, the actual mechanism is screwed into the floor, instead of the wall. Only the cabinetry gets screwed into the wall.

Paula -
Thank you, and yes, I can only speak for the ones I've dealt with when I say that really only a normal mattress works with it, but if you knew ahead of time that you wanted those topper things, you could probably get them to custom make you one that's deeper, because it's kind of about the cabinetry.

If anyone is in the market for an incredible King Raised Panel Murphy Bed in Real Wood - Tidewatewer Birch wash - with 2 Identical 26" side storage cabinets (for your 'mentionables/unmentionables' )and 2 Angular End Cabinets , etc.etc.. at a really good price, and would like to discuss how to get it from my place to your place, send me an e-mail - studaly@mac.com - and we'll talk.!

I am looking for a Murphy bed that folds up into the wall for the spare double bed in my new appartment in Melbourne Australia. Has anyone got any ideas where I could purchase such a thing?? Any advice welcome. Primrose

I just went to see this table at Foremost Furniture (8 West 30th Street), and was disappointed. The moving panels are attached to each other with completely exposed piano hinges (even on the tabletop), and the frame squeaked when I sat on the bed.

For a queen size they quoted me $3195 for laminate or $3995 for veneer, NOT including a mattress, side cabinets, delivery, assembly or tax. At that price I would hope for something with more polish.

Alas, now I have heard that nice murphy beds cost at least $5,000 and can easily run to $10,000 with accompanying cabinetry. Oh well.

I saw that some beds offer spring action and others piston action. What's the difference? I know how they work, however I'm wondering if one is better than the other.

My bedroom is right off of my living room and has an incredible view of the water. I have a large bi-fold door that seperates the two. I would love to be able to use my bedroom for occasional dinner parties...maybe only once or twice a month, if that. The space would really lend itself to great entertaining if only the bed didn't take up all of the space. So, I'm thinking about getting a wall bed unit. The bed would be down 95% of the time. The trouble is, I invested in a fabulous Tempur-pedic mattress. I'm wondering if I can keep it and get a wall-unit/Murphy Bed and be able to use my bedroom for dining.
The Tempur-pedic mattress is about 7 1/2" thick. It sits on top of a 7" thick box spring. Has anyone dealt with this problem?

Recommendation for an Ottoman Sleeper? Sounds tacky, but need one bed in office to get grampa off floor for visits. The office is otherwise large, quiet and bright. Neiman Marcus has one, but only in brown leather.

Hi. In case anyone is looking at purchasing a murphy bed, I am currently posting one in the philadelphia area. I've never posted here before although I love the site so I hope its not rude to share it.

The murphy is used, a queen size, and only $500 obo - beautiful and in pretty good condition. It's not perfect however is a nice buy.

I'm moving from my studio apt. and concerned - most people in philly don't know what it is. I've posted on craigslist: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/gms/131663281.html.

I can take more photos for very close up images if people ask so no one makes a wasted trip if interested! It has to be out by end of Feb. 2006.

Best to you all,
Dana

I was shopping around for a murphy bed, and went to various companies in the city. I own a one bedroom apartment in Manhattan and need all the space I can get! I wanted to create a murphy bed, built according to my taste and budget. I walked into a Manhattan Cabinetry store located at 455 Park Avenue South (between 30th and 31 Street) I am thrilled with the murphy bed I bought at Manhattan Cabinetry. I strongly recommend them for anyone looking to get a murphy bed...and they also do panel beds. Quality like this is hard to beat. Check them out @ WWW.ManhattanCabinetry.com

Any updates on this topic? I was just at Foremost, looking at the Inova Table Bed. I got a better quote on the thing--the price they gave you was wishful thinking. And I intend to bargain some more. This can't be prime furniture selling time.

Re any warping--what about the warranty? I'll look up Craig's List and the usual suspects for unhappy customers, but I went into mucho detail about all the things that could go wrong. The hinges are fairly discreet (at least, with the darker woods. I'm looking at medium or dark cherry.)

These things are are also freestanding--if you look at the mechanism under the table, steel and all, you can see why it's stable.

I've heard that friends of friends got rid of the squeaking, so I'm tracking down more info.

I'd love to hear any more experiences/observations. I have a desk. I could use a table, especially one I have to clean off every night. The ones I have collect paper, I'm not sure how....

BTW Michael, I wouldn't be buying through Foremost if I weren't forced to (shockingly bad behavior from them for a year; finally the manufacturer of my problem piece forced them to give me a credit after my posts at a furniture forum.)

Definitely do not buy anything from them, ever.

hi, i am purchasing a studio apartment and weighing my options as far as sleeping is concerned. any advice on murphy beds...? companies you would recommend? inexpensive ones...?

Thanks for the great info! You guys convinced me about a Murphy bed. But I live in a small apt in Boston, so does anyone have info about a good murphy bed place (for both the bed and installation) in Boston with reasonable prices. Thanks! Patrick

Yes, thanks for the info! I also live in a studio and am seriously considering a wall bed - but I was quoted $4295-5395 for the sofa wall bed (in San Francisco) and $4800-5000 for the same in San Diego. Any ideas for finding a modern, nice-looking one for less?

Hey all i just bought a studio in Long Beach, NY which is 45 minutes from NYC....any ideas where i can get a great murphy bed that houses my tempur pedic without spending over 3 grand??