apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I work for a shelter mag and we got in some Citron samples. I tried them on my bedroom walls which are currently painted a flat cream and are porous and do think they cover well. I love their colors, BUT I still think it's expensive. Yeah, I get some grey shadows with my cheap paint, but how else do you hide the finger prints. I am also looking at greener pastures. I have a basement full of paint that I am afraid to get rid of. Maybe that's the answer - basement "shelters" to hold old toxic paint cans indefinitely,

i've used devine colors in my kitchen (a beautiful green called fescue) and a slightly darker green in my bedroom and something called banana cream pie in my bathroom. the colors are simply gorgeous. i always get positive comments on them. the paint is seriously the consistency of yogurt. it covers quite well -- and after three months of sitting in my garage, just had to give it a little stir and it was as good as the day i bought it. i hightly recomment -- they just don't have a tremendous amount of colors, though.

Can someone explain what full-spectrum paints are?

Remember when you were learning the color wheel and your teacher told you that if you mixed all the colors together, you'd get black? In full spectrum paints, instead of using black and grey to get the paint to a certain value, they use a mix of pigments. It's supposed to make the paints more luminous. It definitely makes them more expensive...

I think that's the theory behind Donald Kaufmann's paints - which are also expensive. They do get raves though.

I ended up using the Devine paints for my living and dining rooms. I'm really pleased with the color and sheen of the walls. I have no idea, though, whether I could have gotten the same effect from a different (cheaper) paint brand.

The one difference I am sure of is the consistency of the paint. I had hired painters to do this work; neither of them had used the Devine brand before. They raved about how easy it was to paint because the Devine paint was so thick and covered so well.

Purer pigments equal expensive pigments.

but seems like extra-thick paint would also need some adhesion assistance...

Full-spectrum, full-shmectrum. Don't fall for it, kids. I've been in restorations for more than 20 years, and trust me, I've seen them come and I've seen them go. I can't tell you how many paint brands I've used, but I always come back to Benjamin Moore. Surfaces properly prepared and primed, and careful applications of a good paint will bring you the best results. Always paint two coats of your color of choice, and if you want that extra "something", apply a third coat. It brings a bit more depth to the color.

Kind of OT - Does anyone know of any Benjamin Moore off-white paint that has a tinge of pink in it? Or is at least a non-yellow, non-gray, or non-green off-white? I would like to do a little color on my bedroom walls, but the husband is so traumatized by the current navy blue semi-gloss that is even on the ceiling (we just moved in) that I think he'll only go for an off-white in this room. I can understand why, too.

And am I crazy to be thinking about using a pearlized off-white (like Ralph Lauren's Duchesse Satin) on the ceiling? My hair salon (Soon in the East Village) painted their tin ceiling tiles this color and it looks great. However, I just have a regular ceiling, and I'm assuming that I would probably have to spray it on to get even coverage. Maybe the navy semi-gloss has led me astray.

Full spectrum paint is worth it,the depth is noticably better than Benjamin Moore, especially in the lighter colors like yellows and puttys. It is expensive, but still cheaper than any other wall covering. Donald Kaufman color collection has a huge range of colors-google them. The catch is you have to pay to get the chips.

Right. Uh huh.

If there's better coverage from the full spectrum paint, and if you need to do a third coat with the Benjamin Moore to get the extra depth of color, wouldn't the cost kind of even out?

I take back my question. Citron's website recommends two or three coats.

Fiona - a good off-white that isn't at all yellow is Benjamin Moore's "Navajo White" (it's decidedly off-white though)or Pratt and Lambert's "Museum White" - a bright white, but with a vaguely pink undercurrent.

Fiona, I agree w/ Suzanne on the Navajo White, but it does contain brown, which over time will deepen and can tend to look like smokers lived in the space......
Joan, SEE?! Without even checking Citron's site, I knew what they'd recommend. The reason for sometimes doing a third coat is that most walls in NYC (and elsewhere, of course) have MANY layers of old paint on them, rendering them "bumpy", or ripply, and they don't cover well. It takes several coats of new paint to fill the bumps in and smooth out. One of the tricks I use is to use a wide blade spackle knife (14 in) and scrape the entire surface of the walls and ceilings, very vigorously, before priming, then again between the first and second coats. It does seem to work, and the finish is smoother, and adds "tooth". Of course, I did end up doing a LOT of skim-coating, too, to restore surfaces to their original smoothness.
Save your money, kids!

Thanks for the color recs, guys! I'll check those out.

Fiona, Benjamin Moore's Linen White, I think it is, is the one the seems the most specifically yellowish.

I think their Off-white seemed to be kind of beigey in a slightly pink-brown direction, but not near as much as the Navajo White that suzanne mentions.

By the way, my art teacher also told me to ALWAYS paint with a full palette. I like how easy it is to find Benjamin Moore colors, though. But from the sound of them, and a book that I saw once of rooms done with Donald Kaufman paints, I wish those were easy to access, because I'm sure I would prefer the colors for at least some projects.

Meanwhile, one suggestion they gave in it was that whatever palette you use in a house or an apartment, that you should at least go ahead and put a few drops of each color into the cans of each of the other colors, and although the difference would be very subtle, it would tie the entire place together. I've never quite done that, but I've SORT of done that in other ways.

I have used Donald Kaufman Paint and it definitely is thicker. They tell me that it is suppose to be luminous and never fall flat even in areas of shade. I can't tell whether it is true or not because I haven't painted the same areas with another brand paint. The paint salesman told me that none of their paints look weird together because they have a full spectrum and it creates some type of harmony. Is this the emporers mew clothes or what ?

We painted with Ellen Kennon full spectrum paints and the colors are rich, beautiful and deep and some colors appear to luminesce in blues. I studied the painted walls in my office and they appear dull and flat with gray undertones beneath the pale violets and lavenders (strange colors for an engineering firm of all men and one woman eh?). So I have to say I'm an advocate for full spectrum paints but I sure don't like the price and extra effort required. Still, they're a worthwhile investment if yours is a home rich in architectural detail or if you simply really love your home and enjoy being in it.

Is there anywhere other than K-mart that carries Martha Stewart paint?

Denise,

You can go to Sherwin Williams for their Martha Stewart line. The Sherwin Williams paint site on the web will let you play with room "painting"
with the Martha colors as well.

I have used both Donald Kaufman and Devine paints and yes, they are expensive; however, when I use Benjamin Moore it requires 2-3 coats minumum and the cost becomes virtually equal. Factor in the time to paint that extra coat and ultimately you end up spending more for a less quality look.

Have the Devine palette, and have tried a lot of their sample colors. I have seen the colors on various walls. Yes, the paint is thick and has less of a smell than others. The palette is limited, and for some reason really lacking in areas of warm colors. I find their colors to be pretty, but have tons of grey to them. It's meant to be a background color, while many of us are used to color as an accent. I love Benjamin Moore paints and have used them extensively. You cannot beat their full palette. I would still consider using Devine in a few of my rooms, but only the less gray colors.

I am in love with color!

I used full spectrum paint from Citron Paints in Arizona, and had them ship it to me in Missouri.
The paint arrived very promptly and the person(s) taking the orders were nice and friendly. The paint was delivered to my doorstep in two days. I did not have to go anywhere or put up with all the organic smells in a paint store. The paint is lovely and thick and covered very well I did only one coat. The color on the wall changes with the light that comes into the room, it is lovely. Best of all, the paint was dry in less than one hour with absolutely no residual smell. Paint smells even the Benjamin Moore EcoSpec give me a headache. This did not! The higher cost of the paint is worth it!

I am going to paint my whole house with Citron Paints!

Hello:
I have never had my home painted before.
At present, I'n leaning toewards Navaho white {for all of the walls}, the crown molding would be Frost, & I am unsure of an accent color, for the living/dining area.
I was told, Navaho white, is a very "safe" color.

can anyone help me?
This is the hardest thing, I have had to do!
Picking a color is a chore.
Frances
I NEED HELP!

Should I use semi-gloss on the trim?
What about the ceilings? I was thinking about doing the ceilings, the same color, as the trim.

Just reading this post and wanted to pitch in on Ellen Kennon Full Spectrum Paints (not McKinnon). Hers come in both low-VOC and NO-VOC Green Paint (the Lifemaster line). They are made by ICI Paints. I've used her paints in my entire house and it's as if the walls are alive with color. When you figure out the cost per square foot, it's a bargain compared to everything else. Also, it has the biggest impact on a space. Check out her color therapy information as well on the website!

Frances, I home it's not too late to tell you no no no. Not Navajo white - it's a dull looking offwhite. If you have white crown molding, use at least a bit of color on the walls and ceiling - you'll love it and the molding will stand out.

Check out this introduction article on Chromotherapy:
http://www.articleworld.org/Chromotherapy
Content:
* 1 What do chromotherapists do?
* 2 Disadvantages
* 3 History
* 4 The Chakras and colors

I just painted a few rooms with Citron paint and they are incredible. My bedroom is three indescribable colors -- Carrot Cake, Cashmere Sweater and Puppy Fur. Monsoon, a purple-grey looks fab in the bathroom, which has black and white tiles. And Agave, a blueish-greenish color is gorgeous on the living room wall. It changes color as the day progresses, just like the full-spectrum people claim. The folks on the phone at Citron are great, too. The only problem is that because Citron is in Arizona, where there is so much sunlight and so little mouldings (the architecture is Adobe or modern mostly, not Victorian), they don't have any good whites. Actually they have none. And I have a frame house in Brooklyn with detail for days. I'm trying to pick a color for the doors and trim that will go with Citron's complex, rich but subdued earth-inspired colors. I'm thinking cream, perhaps. Anybody have any specfic suggestions of a cream that might work? Thanks.

I've been looking at all the full spectrum lines for a while and am probably going to go with Ellen Kennon. But her paints have a really limited selection of blues, so I may get a blue from Citron. Just a suggestion, Robin, but the Ellen Kennon paints have several whites and off whites - maybe you could try them for trim.

I have some kind of Home Depot special white on my walls now and it is atrocious. I cannot wait to get rid of it. I am interested in whether there is really any difference between the full spectrum and nice colors in a good quality paint like Dunn Edwards or Benjamin Moore which all the painters seem to prefer. But their recommendations always remind me of the joke that goes "the surgery was a success, the doctor survived". They talk about how easy the paint goes on, how well it covers etc., plus how they can buy it easily from the distributor. I'm not really interested in any of that - I want to know how the color looks after it's done. Is it a flat one-note color that I get sick of and start to think looks garish after a year or does it stay rich and subtle and complex so that it pleases the eye for a long time?

We'll see. I have about 10 Ellen Kennon colors that I'm going to be using all together.

I do love the Kaufman paints. They are full spectrum, meaning they use up to 12 pigments instead of 2 - 4 like regular paints. Kaufman uses a Pratt and lambert or Ben Moore paints and they never use black. They shimmer on the wall, have nice depth to them and cover well. They are fabulous. But like any other product they have their short-comings. They are with one exception in CA, only avail. mail order. this means you have to pay for shipping and paint ships as hazardous materials so it is pricy.

There are no real bright colors like hot pink, so clients doing kids' rooms often want colors that are "cleaner and brighter". My kit is a few years old, but there are only 75 or so colors, which means that there are only about 2 reds if my memory serves me.

When I have a client whose budget allows, I suggest Kaufman.

I don't see anything about Sherwin Williams Paint. They carry Martha Stewart Colors, but in her book she says to use full spectrum paint ( colors made without "cheating" with black and white, the way a good watercolor is painted, for instance) and I was wondering about experience with SW paints. Or other brands full spectrum.

I will never use Ben Moore again, I paid 35 for a gallon of pearl something or other, and the room stunk of vocs for more than a week. It was terrible. I have mixed my own paints using artists colors in commerical bases since that seemed the only way to get the depth and tone but it can take forever.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Farrow & Ball here. I am in the process of re-decorating my entire home and have my bathroom walls painted with about 10 F&B colors I had picked out.

I am very color-sensitive and I have mixed my own colors in the past but wanted to try this paint since I am a devoted Anglophile.

I have to tell you that it has never taken me so long to pick out paint in my life. The colors are constantly changing. I made some large swatches on primed wood and standing next to the 'swatches' painted on the wall you would swear that the wood swatch and the wall are two different colors but they are not. Swatches laid horizontal are completely different than if stood vertical.

It is maddening tryint to use these but the colors are gorgeous.


stephanie

Hi everyone!

Hope it's okay if I chime in. :) Full spectrum is a method of mixing color that goes back centuries. It's nothing new at all. Advancements in the coatings industry has made bringing full spectrum color to the mass market possible, that's about the only thing that's new about it.

Devine is not a full spectrum paint. Citron, Kaufman and Kennon are all indeed full spectrum paints. C2 is another fun brand to check out, but it isn't full spectrum either, but they do use multiple pigments in their color recipes.

There is a huge difference between regular paint color and full spectrum/multiple pigment color. Swatch to swatch it isn't always so easy to see, but once all four walls, and maybe the ceiling, are painted in FS color you can definitely tell that there is something special. Something different. Something more.

Black is a major culprit in killing the color of regular paint, but remember just because a color doesn't have black in the mix doesn't make it full spectrum. The color has to have all 7 spectral colors (or more) in order to be full spectrum.

One of the benefits of using a full spectrum paint in your environment is it brings a mix of colors that echoe natural white light. White light is comprised of the 7 spectral colors.

I use the Kennon Paint a lot because it is so easy to obtain thru ICI/Dulux stores. It's an affordable luxury and her personal service is outstanding. I liked ICI paints even before I found the Kennon collection, and their new Lifemaster, certified green product is a real bonus.

Stephanie, you are dealing with very normal characteristics of color. Metamerism and flop angle. Metamerism has to do with how differently color behaves from surface to surface and light source to light source. Flop angle has to do with how color changes to your eye based on the angle at which it is viewed.

Expectations for color constancy usually leads to disappointment. Which is another reason why I find full spectrum color such a wonderful option. It totally plays into the natural shifts of color and light instead of fighting it. FS color changes gracefully and usually in a very pleasing way, unlike regular paint colors which can experience dimensional shadowing and "turn" in an unpleansant way with changing light sources.

The Ellen Kennon website and Citron website are fun to check out and the Kaufman books are incredibly well done.

Hope the above info helped some. Happy painting everyone!

I support "Polkadot's" comments on the definitions of Full Spectrum colors, metamerism and flop angle - these are the clearest definitons I have heard in a long time. I co-own a paint store in Seattle and we deal with color issues all the time.

Many paint formulations utilize black pigments as a way to create hide properties - and in many instances this becomes a shortcut that turns pretty colors into muck. We've all seen colors that look good at 10am in the morning but mud out by 6pm in the afternoon. Black is often the culprit.

I just wanted to add a comment about pricing in paints: many different raw materials go into making a bucket of paint. Higher priced paints often have better quality/finer grind pigments and raw materials. You get what you pay for in other words. So when you are thinking about color, don't forget to think about pigment grind! :) Think of it this way, a finer grind of pigment gives you a deeper impression of color on the wall because there are many smaller color particles dispersed throughout the paint. That equals better color.

Also, a good paint store with a qualified custom tinter on staff will be able to match your colors and create them as full spectum hues.

I have used Farrow& Ball and like the full rich color of their paint. Also, very easy use. Only 2 coats needed and hardly any odor. When I use Benjamin Moore paints my hands (with gloves on) break out and it takes a month to clear up.

Where can I purchase a donald kaufmann color?
My friend painted her daughter's bedroom a DKC-42 and it's quite perfect!!!
I can't find a paint store anywhere in the Bay Area of CA.

laprele

I love Donald Kaufman's colors and splurged for the set of chips. I couldn't afford to paint my new house with his paint, but used the chips to pick out similar colors. His colors are all beautiful and everyone has commented on them. When I can afford to repaint I will buy his paint,as everyone I know who has is happy with it. As for Navajo White, we just bought a house painted in it with white trim. It is very subtle and easy to decorate around. It is not yellow but does have a beigy brown look to it. I think it is a very "safe" color.

I ordered the Donald Kaufman paint from NJ and that added to the already high price, but my moneysaving trick was to use an ordinary paint in almost the same color as the first coat, and then DK for the second coat. I got wonderful results. That was a very deep color, but for the lighter colors, they will sell you the pigments in a small jar, and you can take them to a Pratt & Lambert paint store and have them mixed with whichever base coat is required. I did that for a hallway,and while I do like the color,and the way it changes with the light, it doesn't exactly match the chip.
Donald Kaufman paint is sold by the Color Factory in Englewood NJ. Also Painter's Supply, Santa Monica CA.

Hello,

I am thrilled with the opportunity to comment on full spectrum paints. There is nothing like the experience, nothing to compare in any regard. We lived in Arizona and used Citron Paints. Every room in our home was painted a different desert color with agave trim throughout to unify the spaces. I painted key furnishings in each room in the gloss version of agave and it was memorable. What I like about it is that it has a presence. You have an experience in any room adorned with it. As to quality, we tried some Ellen Kinnon and it did not compare in my opinion with the quality of the Citron paint. The was a noteworthy difference in quality. I know this paint is expensive and I, fortunately understand the principles behind it that justify the expense. The point is this: every bit of this paint on the wall pays you back every moment you are in a room that is painted with it. I don't think it gets any better than that. Do not miss the opportunity. No paint I have ever used (we have owned many homes and often painted them twice with all kinds of paints) can compare. If you are lucky enough to have the chance to utilize it, consider yourself blessed.

Suzanne in North Carolina 12/26/08

Hey everyone,
Check out Philip's Perfect Colors: www.philipsperfectcolors.com.

He is a master, AND he mixes his colors in a C2 Paint LoVo paint base, so technically is the first paint to combine full-spectrum color with low-VOC technology, what's not to love about that?

His online color palette is gorg.

Inspirista-- Thank you! Thank you! I've been trying to remember Philip's name since December, looking on and off through the internet. His palettes are beautiful, and I'm glad to find him again!

I have used CITRON paint several times. IT IS AMAZING! I have used Fedora, Butterscotch, Jack O Lantern and Bora Bora. I am not a "blue" person but the shade of Bora Bora is so soothing and calming. I live in Pennsylvania so my paint is shipped...sometimes I do drive to a Ben Moore store for AURA, which is nice IF you have never been introduced to Citron full spectrum. The people at Citron are wonderful to talk to and help with selection.When Citron paint is on a wall and then AURA is beside it...you cannot believe the difference. I cannot explain it....you just want to touch your wall, it is so "moving." Good Luck!