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Good Questions: Is Downstairs Neighbor's Venting Legal?

3-13-ventilation.jpgHello AT,

I live on the seventh floor of a twelve story condominium in Queens. My downstairs neighbor has remodeled his/her kitchen vent to vent to an internal shaft that is meant to vent our bathrooms. Now every time they cook my bathroom ends up smelling like a greasy fast food place.

How should I confront them about this? Is this even legal? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Venting In

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Dear Venting,

That sounds horrible! While we don't know the legality of this, it certainly seems incorrect and possibly illegal. Bathroom vents are designated as such and are not designed to carry kitchen, dryer or other venting. Obviously, your neighbors have cut some corners and possibly jerry-rigged their solution, which they were probably driven to do because the smell was too much for them!

While others may disagree, we always advise beginning with a polite phone call or knock on their door to alert them to the issue in your apartment that they probably don't know about. If they won't do anything about it, we would then go to the super. Last, but not least, you could install a fan in your vent that is always running to keep any air from entering your bathroom or block the vent entirely.

Anyone else?

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Comments (22)

I personally don't know, but a good way to find out about crazy NYC building codes is to contact your City Council member. Yours is probably Helen Sears or Joe Vallone, but you can go to www.nyccouncil.gov to find out. Someone in the district office can probably get you an answer, and it's good to make them aware of a problem if the building owner is in violation.

posted by AMLitt on 2006-03-13 10:57:00

The obliviousness of neighbors in close quarters always surprises me. Depending on how you feel about it, based on your experiences with these neighbors, I'd agree with Maxwell. However, when I was having problems with my downstairs neighbor's smoking, I ended up wishing i had just dealt with my landlord because dealing with the neighbor became a pain. You're in a slightly different situation, in a condo, where you'll likely be dealing with these people for awhile. They might have no idea that what they did is affecting you (or they might, and not care...)

posted by Christine (the one in DC) on 2006-03-13 10:59:10

There are several ways to deal with this. One way is to just "innocently" complain to the super about the smell, and let him be the "bad cop" who discovers the source, and then you follow up with him and with the building manager.

Or, if you're dead sure you know what the problem is, you could just complain directly to the building manager and then let HIM direct the super to investigate.

That's probably how you'd do with a co-op. Since condo ownership is a little more independent that co-ops, if you really don't particularly care what this neighbor thinks, you could possibly just call 311 (the City's one-stop-shopping for complaints and questions about pretty much everything) and maybe they'll sic the Board of Health inspectors onto the whole situation? I think that might be the last resort that might be best used as some kind of trump card.

But I gotta say, I personally can't stand any of the options, because I'm really not all comfortable with confrontations, so I really, really feel for you. That is really the blues.

The bottom line is that someone should have had to present plans to some kind of governing body of some kind, and apparently didn't, or this wouldn't have happened this way. This cannot have been the right way to have been installed.

posted by Curtis on 2006-03-13 11:10:29

I wonder if there is some sort of filter that the neighbors could attach to the vent - to mitigate the smells, not to mention the greasy fumes!

Vents can be gross.. I can hear what my neighbor is upto in the bathroom! I just turn the radio on when I'm in there.

posted by new_to_at on 2006-03-13 11:12:12

Sounds to me like the vent fan on the roof is not running -- if it were, all vapors would be drawn up and away -- suggest you contact your condo's super and look into that as a first step.

posted by Frank on 2006-03-13 11:13:53

I'm wondering if this doesn't pose a fire hazard of some sort.

posted by Marilyn on 2006-03-13 11:18:08

Blocking the bathroom vent would lead to trouble. There is a reason it is there. A cursory glance at the NYC code for kitchen venting doesn't make what they did sound illegal, but I'm no code expert. The only bit that might apply (from a quick overview) would be C26-1300.6 D2, which states that any kitchen venting can't put an undue imposition on other building residents.

What may be happening is that their vent has a fan that is overpressurising the chimney, leading to the air backing out through your bathroom. The situation could be solved by improving the CFM of the building fan that draws out the bathroom chimney to begin with.

posted by Max on 2006-03-13 11:25:09

This site is your friend BTW:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/reference/code_internet.shtml#ch27

posted by Max on 2006-03-13 11:26:17

Frank's suggestion sounds right. If the exhaust fan on the roof is on, air is always going into the shaft.

But regardless, your neighbor's kitchen exhaust should not be connected to a bathroom exhaust shaft. How did you know that they made this connection? Do the people on the floors above you have the same odor problems?

posted by Alvin on 2006-03-13 11:58:39

Also don't forget to consult your condo's offering plan. Regardless of whether any codes were violated, if your neighbor violated some of the rules of the plan (eg, by failing to present a renovation plan for approval) there could be some avenues for penalties. These documents can be dense however and it may pay to have anyone you know who's an attorney take a quick look. . .

posted by eeeck on 2006-03-13 13:54:22

Kitchens cannot be vented through bathroom vents because greasy build up can occur that bathroom vents aren't intended to handle. I don't know the code sections that deal with this, but I recall hearing this. It's similar to the codes requiring that driers be vented in special ways and not through kitchens or bathrooms because of the dangers of lint build up.

posted by Jojo on 2006-03-13 15:57:57

This is what as known as a "private nuisance." If this is not illegal under the building codes, you do have recourse to a lawsuit (though hopefully it won't come to that!).

Basics of nuisance lawsuits:
http://db.inman.com/bruss/columns/column.cfm?StoryId=050902BB4&Display=story

posted by Sarah D. on 2006-03-13 16:22:21

It certainly is illegal. Also, I would believe it is a fire hazard in some way.

I agree that approaching them politely is your first step and then of course, you could invite them for an after dinner drink and show them your apartment and walk them right through the bathroom.

posted by jmarieb(jackie) on 2006-03-13 16:38:07

I thought the dryer vent issue was because some driers are gas fired and therefor would emit CO?

posted by Max on 2006-03-13 16:39:41

Drier vent issues are about lint, too. Imagine venting lint through a kitchen vent that also serves as exhaust for grease smoke and very hot gasses--the resulting fire hazard makes it illegal to use a single vent for kitchen and drier regardless of whether the drier is gas or electric.

posted by jojo on 2006-03-13 17:14:12

If they did what you think they did, in addition to a safety hazard this is a building code violation and they certainly didn't have a permit which is required for anything more than changing a lightbulb. So a complaint to your local building and safety office should be enough for an inspector to come out and mandate corrections or removal. In addition to annoying fumes, this type of venting will result in grease build-up in an enclosed space which is a serious fire hazard. Although an official complaint might seem harsh, it might be the only way to ensure yours and all the tenant's safety including the ones that installed the system.

posted by AW on 2006-03-13 20:03:17

You people are too nice/legalistic. These neighbors have gone over the line.

My solution: knock on their door, smile...and then beat them to death with a chair leg. When the stench of their bloated corpses come through your vent, call 311 and complain.

posted by Jimbo on 2006-03-13 21:14:41

Call the city building department first thing in the morning; just dial 311 and you'll be connected. A bathroom vent is there to carry out smells. It's walls weren't meant to withstand the heated air that would normally go throught a kitchen vent, that's why kitchen vents are metal-lined. There's no way your neighbor got a permit to make that change. I wouldn't wait another day to call the buildings department. Imagine the potential danger next Thanksgiving when that neighbor has the oven on all day and hot air is going to be filling up that space all day.

posted by eddie on 2006-03-14 02:14:43

I need to see drawings. At least a sketch. Give me an address so I can see how it was filed.

posted by Evan Bray on 2006-03-14 10:35:42

I agree that it would be very distressing to have this situation in my home, and I understand people’s reactions. However, given that you have to live in this building, and may have to maintain some kind of relationship with your downstairs neighbors, I think you should take a more cautious approach than just calling in the building inspectors.

I don’t necessarily agree that you should approach your neighbors directly - some people might construe even the most nicely put inquiry as a criticism or threat, and react badly. And that won’t get you what you need, which is to have your bathroom stop smelling like a Fryolator lives there. If you’ve had more than just a nodding relationship with them, and feel you could discuss it profitably, then by all means go ahead and have a talk with them. However if you are uncertain how you will be received, then I think you should step back, and use a different approach. I also think it’s premature to get all legalistic on their @$$e$, citing the Building Code, offering plan, etc., or to call for the help of your local legislators. Save it for Plan B, if needed.

My take is that unless you’re comfortable with those roles, it’s not incumbent on you to be the mediator with the neighbors, the rat to the Dept. of Buildings, or anything else besides an owner who just wants to enjoy her premises as they were meant to be lived in. I think that a simple complaint to the condo board is where you start. Remember that you are probably not the only person in your line who’s affected by this, so ultimately you may be helping others as well. You notify the board (in writing) about the recent situation in your bathroom, and ask them politely to resolve it. I believe they have a duty to do so. I don’t think you need to call in outside backup until such time as you are convinced that the board is not going to help you resolve the situation. However given the likely Code violations, they can’t afford to sit on their hands and do nothing.

posted by PleasePressZero on 2006-03-14 11:07:30

You can check to see if they have a permit for their work at http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/bis.shtml, go into the BIS and enter the address, you may have to search through a few (dozen or more) links, but it will show up if filed. You can call the NYC DOB and ask your code questions directly, they are pretty helpful. All mechanical ventilation work must be filed. You absolutely cannot vent a stove hood into a bathroom exhaust. If your building is designed like most NYC apartment buildings, the kitchen venting is not designed to have a stove hood vent directly into its exhaust shaft for the typical kitchen. They are designed for general venting of the kitchen room only, not the actual cooking exhaust. If what you suspect they have constructed is what they did actually do, it's a real fire hazard!

posted by Kurt on 2006-04-06 17:04:19

That address is:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/bis.shtml

posted by Kurt on 2006-04-06 17:06:16

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