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Herman Miller is the authentic in the sense of name registration. In fact, if you order the dark grey color from Modernica, it has the Herman Miller logo at the bottom. Modernica bought the machines/plants from Herman Miller after they stopped using fiberglass but they didn't make the shells for Herman Miller. Fiberglass will have and edge over the plastic reissued one but usually are cheaper. my suggestion: buy a vintage HM shell and a dowel base from Modernica in walnut.
regards,
joel maria pirela

As Theresa alludes to, the Modernica version has a fiberglass shell, just as the originals did. The HM version instead uses polypropylene.

I think "authenticity" is a matter of opinion. Modernica is using an authentic process. HM has the rights to the name. I say go with the one you like better.

Personally, I prefer the texture and look of the fiberglass in the Modernica version. It also comes in a lot more colors:

http://www.velocityartanddesign.com/mdsscdb.html

Hi all,
so, i guess if we are on this subject..
i own the authentic Herman miller vintage Fiberglas version, but i would very much want to change the baseon the chairs. (right now the set is with the stacking base)
wlll the different Modernica bases work on these?

thanks so much!

mmmms in L.A

Joel knows what he is talking about. Just so you know, Herman Miller is the ONLY licensed manufacturer. Modernica did buy the machines after HM discontinued the use of fiberglass, but even while they use the same presses the originals were made on, they are unfortunately not authentic. The Eames foundation controls everything about C & R Eames collection, as well as some Nelson pieces. HM and the Eames' are/were very environmentally concious, and at the time when the original shells were made, molded plastic was not available for manufacturing (if it was even invented) at that time. Polypropylene is the material they are made of now, which is a Thermoplast material (which can be recycled) and fiberglass is a Thermoset material(which is here for eternity onces it is cast). When PP became a readily used material, the Eames foundation decided to change manufacturing to this material (because they believed it would have been the way C & R would have wanted it, had the material been available when the chairs were born). Herman Miller does not manufacture these chairs anymore, they are produced by Vitra (which manufactures all Eames furniture in Europe), and sold under the HM name in America. In my opinion (which is what i have done in the past)...get on ebay, and buy an original shell seat, and go to Modernica and buy a replacement base.

Theresa

Have you actually touched the HM plastic versions, or are you just going on photographs? I've seen both "in person" and in my opinion the fiberglass Modernica version is far superior. The HM plastic reminds me of the plastic they make shampoo bottles out of. The texture seems rubbery and cheap, like a chewy dog toy.

Overall I think HM is a great company, but not in this one instance.

Also, the whole idea of changing the materials a design is made from because you're thinking that's what a now-deceased designer would have used if it existed in his/her lifetime, then claiming your design is "authentic..." sorry, I don't buy that line of reasoning. If you change something as fundamental as the main material of an object, it is no longer the same object. It looks different, it feels VERY different, the way it reflects light is completely different, etc. I think creative people should have the freedom to experiment, improve, reimagine, whatever -- just don't call it the authentic, original design, because it's not.
Just my opinion... others are welcome to theirs also.

I would like to level the playing field and offer the same price for the fiberglass Modernica version as the Herman Miller sale version for Apartment Therapy readers of this post. The problem is, I can't find the Herman Miller dowel version online for regular or sale pricing, only the Eiffel tower base? If someone could point me to the pricing, I would do my best to match that price for those wishing to order the fiberglass version from us. I don't know if this is appropriate to post here, but thought I would offer it up.
I echo the thoughts that you should choose which one you like best for whatever reason. We always tell our customers that, and leave the final choice up to them.
Thanks!

creativereact - You mention that the modernica shells are made on the same actual equipment that HM used to use to produce the chairs (i.e. the machines modernica purchased from HM, presumably with HM's knowledge that they would be used to make more chairs). My understanding is that the materials used in the Modernica fiberglas chairs are also the same as HM previously used. Yet you write that the fiberglas chairs produced by Modernica are, "unfortunately not authentic." I'm curious, in what way are they not authentic? And how is it that a chair made of different materials than the original -- the plastic version now produced by HM -- somehow *is* "authentic"?

I agree with the poster who suggested buy vintage and use Modernica bases. I also think the Herman Miller chairs are crap. The main reason the chairs are desirable is the use of fiberglass in their construction. Without that they are just plastic. And I also think the Modernica chairs are really, really nice. I typically never buy knockoffs, but in this case the Modernica chairs in my eyes are the real deal. It's like buying a Nelson clock from Vitra. They just don't have the official license. By the way the deal the Velocity guy is offering is great.

A little off subject, but I have two of the dowel legged barstools-with vintage shells-one orange, one yellow-which I purchased about three years ago at Modernica when they still had stock of vintage HM shells. Anyway, I no longer have use for the barstools, but would like to hold on to my shells as they are vintage and seem to be a rare commodity these days-does anyone know if I can transfer these shells to another Modernica base?-Rocker, Eiffel, or low wire-or only to the dowel chair base? Also, is anyone looking to buy two bar stool bases for that matter?

I agree with those who suggest that the Modernica ones are plenty "authentic" because they are made on the original machines.

I have some Seymour Duncan Seth Lover pickups on my guitar, and they were made on the same pickup-winding machines as the original Gibson humbuckers back in the late 50's (SD bought the machines from Gibson, like Modernica has done from HM). The pickups sound just like my favorite recordings of the 60's (which used the 50's pickups).

I know this is a stretch for an analogy, but hey, it's something.

can anyone tell me where to find a measurement for the bolt pattern on the base? i have 4 vintage shells that i picked up for a dollar a piece & would like to purchase new bases. i noticed on modernica's website that their bases fit "vintage and new fiberglass shell chairs except those with wide positioned shock mounts (vintage Stacking Side Shells)" i don't know if the shells i have fall into this category or not. any help would be appreciated. its amazing how this post showed up as i just picked up these shells last week.

Have you researched the dowel leg? I seem to see many of these with splits in the wood where the screws at the top of the leg are attached. I've even noticed it on chairs in modernica's store. I agree that the Modernica shell is the way to go if you don't find a vintage one. I only buy HM products and not knock-offs, but I hate the plastic HM version. This is the one product I have strayed from my rule. I have purchased Moderica bases for my vintage shells but not the dowel legs because of the splitting.

I own a couple of originals, I have spent a lot of time looking at both versions and I have also visited the Vitra headquarters in Europe and I can say that, in my opinion, the Modernica is a much much much more genuine repro.

The plastic on the Herman Miller is cheap feeling and it doesn't have the shine or the translucent quality of the fiber glass.

The people at Vitra told me that they changed materials because the plastic that they are currently using is more environmentally friendly...... that said they still construct the LaChaise out of fibrerglass.... so I have a feeling that this was a cost driven choice.... but that is just my 2 cents.

If u want something like the original, go with the modernica.

Hello everyone, Really appreciate all your helpful advice. We are likely to go with the Modernica once we have gotten the dimensions nailed down. They are to match a dining table we just bought.

Maxwell, sorry I can't provide the link to the HM chairs as they are not on the web. We saw them in a retail store in Singapore where we live. But they are made by Vitra as creativereact pointed out.

Thanks once again!

Hello, I recently purchased an original Zenith shell with birch dowel base in fairly good shape - not inexpensive! I am an architect and have also specified HM plastic chairs before and so I don't really have an issue with liscenced reproductions. I do wonder how the new chairs will impact the value of the originals - especially now that Modernica is remaking the fiberglass shells. What do others think? Thanks.

creativereact, you state that moulded plastic was not available for manufacturing and you praise HM and Eames´ enviromnetal conciousness and mention that the Eames Foundation decided to change the material due to speculations that this was what Charles would have wanted
- This is all bollocks and is the fantastic story Vitra and Eames Foundation have invented in order to justify change of material which was done for one reason and one reason only; max profit...
Only truth in this might be that in 49/50 moulded plastic was not available for mass production but it was in the late 50s - among others Verner Panton and Sir Robin Day worked with and mass produced moulded plastic.
Had HM and Eames been such environmental enthusiasts they would simply have change material at some point during the 60s or 70s or 80s... and the decision to change material came, of course, when Charles had passed away....

The Modernica fiberglass shell might not be authentic although produced with original tooling (and in original material) but compared to the authentic/ licensed Vitra-let-us-make-a-fast-buck-with-cheap-materials-version, I will choose the fiberglass any day - and, honestly, I think Charles would agree...

WOW !
hi everybody, I'm a 20 yo french guy, who is fan of Charles and Ray EAMES. I'm doing studies in furniture design, and want to become a furniture designer.
so fiberglass or polypropylen ?!!
FIBERGLASS, not ecological... but who wants to recycle an EAMES chair... who want to recycle a Zenith or HM shell ???
not me ! thos chairs will last more than us !
moreover, those fiberglass chairs, were the first plastic chair to be produced in large serie... and when Charles and Ray worked with fiberglass, they were able to obtain shapes that a lot of designer and architects wanted to obtain... but it's fiberglass which allow those shapes. when we speak about "shell chairs", we cannot forget to quotes the work of Charles and Ray...
so FIBERGLASS FIBERGLASS FIBERGLASS the magic material !
when I see 40-50 years old shells, still shinny.. it's fantastic... and when I go on a modern design retailer, and when I see a large range of Polypropylen chairs... they all seem cheap, and bad quality, bad finish... and a lot of them remind me the work of Charles and Ray ! so polypropylen is maybe ecological, but Vitra's shells are not as beautiful as HM or Modernica's shells. they don't have shockmounts that was the answer that the Eames found to a problem... good designer work ! (I will not do a historic design course:) because I don't know all about the Eames)
polypropylen shells loose the magic aspect of the Eames HM shells. I think polypropylen shell is a stupid choice.
give me a polypropylen shell... nothing, poor material
give me a fiberglass chair...I will spend hours and hours looking at it, touching the material...
we can not compair ! I've seen Modernica chairs in London (there is a brand of coffee shop that put a lot of Modernica chairs in its shop... awesome !) and I've seen Modernica chairs in a shop... I was not seduce, they are better than Vitra chairs, but not as good as old funky Herman Miller chairs ! so HERMAN MILLER FOREVER !

soon I will receive a Vitra limegreen shell, and I will try to show us a pic of a HM chair and Vitra one. everybody will be able to compair both chairs.

and moreover, Vitra used to manufacture Eames chairs in fiberglass until 1993. I don't know if you (american people) have already seen some. I'm wondering something, and hope that you will help me :) do you think that american people will be interested in such chairs? maybe for you they are exotic ! I don't know, what do you think about that? please let me know.

I permit myself to put a small message:
I'm also looking for Eames stuff, so if you can have good stuff for me just tell me ! thanks
k_alessandro@yahoo.fr
also if you have old photos of interiors with Herman Miller stuff... I really like those fotos.

feel free to contact me !

à bientôt les amis !
alex

Whilst I value authentic pieces, I cannot get past the feel of the newer HM reproduction shells, I much prefer fibreglass.
I bought two vintage HM shells and put new rocker bases on them and I'm really happy with them.
I think it's all about personal preference and ultimately why you like the chair, go with your gut.

" The main question at hand was how are they, Modernica, able to manufacture the exact same shell chairs that Eames has not authorized the reproduction of other than to Herman MIller? The Modernica chairs are manufactured in fiberglass, the original material as opposed to the polypropylene of the authorized Herman Miller ones. As for the “original mold” being used on the Modernica ones, what is really happening is that the shells are being made by the original manufacturer that were engineered by Sol Fingerhut of Zenith Plastics, who pioneered the process of pressure molded fiberglass. "

If HM, the Eames foundation, and Vitra were really concerned about the environment, they'd sell bases and spare parts for the thousands of HM fiberglass shell chairs already out there.

I doubt very much that anyone who takes the time to buy a custom fiberglass shell chair from Modernica would ever just throw it out. That environmental excuse is bull*hit.

The HM one I'm sitting on right now is from the '60s, and I don't plan on throwing it out any time soon. It looks great. I doubt any of those new plastic ones will look good in 40 plus years. The new plastic ones are cheap looking, totally Target. Avoid.

This seems to be an old thread, but hopefully new readers can answer my question. Some of the responses suggest buying a vintage shell and using repro Modernica legs.

Besides the "authenticity" and lack of Herman Miller-licensing on the Modernica shells, is there a difference between a vintage HM shell and a new Modernica shell?

To rephrase the question, are vintage HM shells and new Modernica shells of the same quality? Or is the ranking of quality (regardless of "authenticity"):

VINTAGE HM shell > Modernica shell > polypropylene HM shells

Thanks! Looking to upgrade my current PP HM shell.