apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

This thread has been funny to read. I think it is great that she was given every option out there whether they are feasible or not. That way other readers/posters can also use the info. Anyway Mr. Slim is expensive but it works great, at least the middle of the road units. It did for us in our last apartment.
Now we have the A/C in the living room just like you and purchased a portable swamp cooler from Cost Co for about $250. We put it in the door way from the living room to the bedroom and it sucks the a/c air from the l/r and blows it into the b/r along w/ the cooling properties it supplies. It is the next best thing to another a/c unit in the b/r but I agree a pain to store.
Good luck, I myself get very sick in the heat and I greatly sympthize w/ you! I can tell you that it saved me many sleepless nights.

This link might help....good luck!
http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/faq/repairs.html

I'm not a legal expert at ALL, but to me, it sounds like you really only need ONE of those windows to give access to the fire escape.

In this heat, it's unconscionable to deprive a person of having an air conditioner.

sooo, i should have done the legwork before submitting my quesiton, but i called 311 this weekend and was told that there isn't, in fact, any nyc ordinance banning window a/c on the fire escape--as long as there is "egress" to the fire escape, the city doesn't care if we can exit out of one window or two. turns out it's the *board's* rule that there can't be any window a/c on the fire escape.

we're planning to write a very pleasant, articulate letter to the board requesting an exception. advice still welcome on what to do, other than baste, if their refusal is steadfast . . .

I also think this is more a discussion to be had with the Co-op Board and not the Super.

Would an AC that vented into another room be an option? NY Times had an article on them a few weeks back.

If your request is denied, you may want to consider a free-standing ("portable") AC that is set up in your room but vents un-obtrusively to a window (through a tube, like the way a clothes dryer does). If the co-op's objections are aesthetic, this might be a workable compromise. Best Buy and other major retailers sell portable ACs. Good luck!

I know you said no portables, but you need an A/C, right? We got a factory reconditioned Delonghi Penguino from Amazon.com, for way less than the normal retail price. Works like a charm, allows the window to be shut easily when we are not home, and heck, you could throw a cloth over it and use it as an end table or kitchen island in the off season. We have no idea what we'll do with ours in the winter, actually - there are no closets and only two small rooms in our apartment. But it's worth it to be able to sleep comfortably. So worth it.

My solution is a very practical Edgar Allen Poe one: if your board is steadfast, cordially invite the board into your bedroom, and then brick them into it.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001YH22E/qid=1124128488/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5464674-4400927?v=glance&s=kitchen

Ona's suggestion is right. I found they are still available on amazon.com. Do yourself a favor and consider getting a portable. Excess heat isn't just a comfort issue, it's a health issue.

This is probably the wrong time of year to be looking for these rare birds, but how about a slim A/C? They are made for ground floor windows with iron bars on the outside, and don't stick out the window. The whole unit is 6" or 8" in depth.

About the board -- be sure to read for yourself the actual prohibition. Sometimes it's not written exactly the way people remember it . . .

For example, my friend was told dogs were banned from the building. Once he became president, he bothered to read the paperwork . . . pets were banned from being loose in the hallways! Which really po'd the outgoing pres, whose cat had run of the building . . . interpretation may be very loose and terribly convient for the keeper of the information.

He's looking for a little dacshund now.

Here's a less expensive portable ac unit than the amazon one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16896100128


10,000 btu's with a 15.15 EER is very efficient, and it's a good price. Kind of a no-name brand, but hey, it's an option.

thanks, all.

it's clearly going to be expensive in any case--if we can get the board to agree that the smaller window can have an a/c unit, it'll have to be one made for narrow windows, and they seem to be pricier. ditto a portable or slim a/c--although the slim idea might be preferable, since we wouldn't have to store it. i found a couple of options at www.kooltronic.com, but the models skinny enough not to protrude out the window seemed pretty weak in the BTU department.

has anyone used one of the a/c units guido describes? or know where to find one?

Gracious Home had some of the free-standing a/c's on sale this past weekend. But considering it is what I lovingly refer to as the most overpriced store in the city, I am sure you could find the same at Best Buy or similar.

I agree with P2 - this is something for the board, not the super. What does everyone above and below you have in their windows? Did you go out on the fire escape and look?

yes, agreed. clearly for the board, and we'll see how they react to our request.

none of the other fire escapes have any visible a/c. the line our apartment is in is the smallest plan in the building, and probably the only apartments with a bedroom that has no window other than the fire escape, so it's not an issue for most of the building. i have no idea what the four people with apartments the same plan as ours are doing. . . maybe they're androids. the owner before us had the bedroom and living room reversed--not an option for us, but we're starting to realize why he did it.

further research yielded this site from mitsubishi: www.mrslim.com. too expensive for us, but not something i'd heard of before . . .

ach, and:

i spent last night poring over the house rules in our board package. there's wording there to the effect that "no air conditioner not approved by the board shall be installed, yadda yadda." so, no mention of the fire escape rule--or any specific thou-shalt-nots, for that matter--but it does seem clear that they have the right to nix anything we might try to put in the window.

I hereby nominate Curtis' response the best post I've seen all day! Granted, it doesn't help Lindsay and her family at all.........

Good luck.

A ceiling fan can make your room feel 8-12F cooler.

http://www.sierraclub.org/e-files/ceiling_fan.asp

By all means, readdress getting a window-mount AC with whomever you necessary in your building. I've had a "portable" free-standing unit when I was in a rental. They aren't nearly as powerful as the wall- or window-mount units. And they are VERY noisy, take up a lot of floor space, and are visually obtrusive. (Plus they are ridiculously expensive, imho.) They're good only as a last resort. Also, Lawrence's tip about a ceiling fan is a good one. A ceiling fan and AC combo is very effective.

Here's a tip that might come in handy for some (not useful for Lindsay at the moment), which I learned from an old a/c guy: Done properly, some a/c units can be installed at the top of a window opening, rendering the unit far more efficient - think about it, hot air rises, the a/c sucks it out and sends in cold air, which sinks. I had an old carrier slide-in unit I inherited, and built a wood frame for it, thru-bold the casing, and slid the unit in. Amazing, the difference. The window opens underneath, if you wanna jump through it easily :)

Here's a tip that might come in handy for some (not useful for Lindsay at the moment), which I learned from an old a/c guy: Done properly, some a/c units can be installed at the top of a window opening, rendering the unit far more efficient - think about it, hot air rises, the a/c sucks it out and sends in cold air, which sinks. I had an old Carrier slide-in unit I inherited, and built a wood frame for it, thru-bolted the casing, and slid the unit in. Amazing, the difference. The window opens underneath, if you wanna jump through it easily :)

Vornado fans. Very quiet and amazingly powerful. While it does not generate cool air, we find that instead of using the ac, we just use the vornado. check out the cute retro one, too expensive, but nice to look at.

I don't know if this was already suggested to you, but when it comes to very powerful and cost-efficient cooling in a small space, your best bet is purchasing a PORTABLE EVAPORATIVE COOLER aka SWAMP COOLER. You can find one all over the internet for prices ranging from $40-$300. My girlfriend is from the Caribbean side of Costa Rica (very hot and humid all year around). As a gift, I gave her family one and THEY LOVED it. It's a simple design, low maintenance, very energy-sufficient AND it works WONDERS. You'll see. Try EBAY or just type in "PORTABLE EVAPORATIVE COOLERS" on any search engine.

Your best bet is probably one of the 2 part Japanese ac machines -- one part is mounted on a wall on the outside of the building (compressor), and then another part is mounted on the wall or ceiling inside the dwelling -- the 2 are connected by a hose usually run through a hole in the wall. They are WAY more effective than window units, and great investment if you own your place. Of course, you still have to deal with that pesky coop board.

Yes, Mr. Slim!

about the slim a/c units -
my downstairs neighbor a few years back had it, effectively cooling the open plan 2 back rooms of her apt -- 16 x 30 more or less. It was a low end unit. It was also a naturally cool ground floor space.

Forget ductless mini split like the Mr slims.
If the board takes issue with easily installed/de-installed window units they will never allow for compressors to be bolted onto the side of the building with two holes drilled through the wall, or installed on the roof (if you are close enough to the roof) with the pipework routed through common areas or other ppls' apts.
Even if they did, if you are balking at the price of a portable unit then you will positively puke at the purchase and installation costs of the ductless systems. A single compressor installation will set you back close to $10K. I did the research on this and posted feedback here and on craigslist

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/main/archives/002563.html

http://forums.newyork.craigslist.org/?ID=15887691

The brownstoner.com guy sent $30K on a 3 compressor/9 fan set up. The problem is that most installers are used to and equipped for traditional ducted central AC. Mini split ductless is sufficiently "new" to them that they jack up the prices because it is not what they are used to.

Sorry about the mini rant but when ppl recommend solutions without considering the context (or even the city - nyc coops being special cases in themselves) it kinda annoys me.

The reasonable letter to the coop board is the best way. If you want to mention low profile units with measurements the LG LP6000ER is pretty highly rated on consumerreports and epinions.com and may help your case with the board.

http://us.lge.com/Product/prodlist.do?actCategory=home&currentPage=2&categoryId=0000030401&archivedYn=&actType=&parentId=

http://www.epinions.com/LG_Window_Mounted_Air_Conditioner_LP6000ER_Air_Conditioners/display_~reviews

Hope it works out for you.

jamie pup -- ouch! Just trying to be helpful. I figured the question poser would best understand his/her own building's rules and requirements, his/her budget, etc. I know coops, I know split unit costs, and I know how creativity (and sometimes cost) are needed to deal with difficult NYC living conditions. Ok -- end of my mini-rant-back.

What about getting a giant a/c for the living room - like a 12,000 BTU and using it to blast cold air all over the apt. (and adding a ceiling fan to the bedroom to bring in the cooler air) Not the most energy efficient method to be sure, but I had to resort to it in a rental apt. where the bedroom had only a super narrow barred window. Of course, maybe the board will block that, too.

This whole discussion is moot until the writer finds out which AC's have been Okayed for her Co-op. Since she can't be the only one who wants to use window air-conditioners, there could conceivably already be a whole list of approved units.

Hey Frank, no offense but I should have noted that, again, I was not directing any of that ire to you. I guess Charlene's constant (more than once counts as constant to me ;p) quips about Mr Slim without any explanations or understanding of what installing those things takes rubbed me the wrong way.

Laura, I'm sure other ppl looking for advice on AC units in general will find the posts useful. someone in another thread entirely said that they were checking out this thread for general AC info.
Plus we have had ppl ask in the past about the mini split ductless systems so they may find this info useful.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but swamp coolers work by blowing inside air over water or ice. The idea is why human sweating works, evaporating water has a cooling effect. So, the air right above the water is cooler than the rest of the room, so the fan circulates it elsewhere. The hitch is swamp coolers work best when/where the humidity is low, which allows the water to evaporate quicker and create more cool air. If it's really humid, there's not going to be much evaporation and not much of a cooling effect.

I have the same issue: 2 windows leading to the fire escape. I called the fire department and here is what they told me. I could (and you could) conceivably put an airconditioner in one of the windows, but here's the problem: there can be nothing STICKING OUT on the fire escape that could block someone who needs to use it. So that's the catch-22. It's not a coop issue, it really IS a legal issue. If the windows are tall enough, and this is what we were considering, you could put the air conditioner high but it could not interfere with, say, a fireman's head as he raced in to save you...
We have therefore, after exploring the options, decided to get a Pinguino which is going to disguise itself in the winter as a bedside table...

GET PERMISSION FROM THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. THE SUPER AIN'T NO AUTHORITY OF THINGS LIKE THAT. HE IS FULL OF BALONEY AND DON'T BE AFRAID TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE BOARD. I LIVE IN A COOP AND OFTEN DON'T ASK PERMISSION FOR SIMPLE THINGS. I JUST DO THEM. IF THEY FIND OUT AND DON'T LIKE IT. WELL THEN I DO SOMETHING. LIKE THERE ARE NO DOGS ALLOWED IN MY BUILDING. I SNUCK A LITTLE WESTY IN AND HAD IT FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE THEY FOUND OUT. I SAID I WAS DOG SITTING AND KEPT A LOW PROFILE. GOT THE DRIFT........? YOU ARE THE SHAREHOLDER, NOT THE SUPER!!! IN ACTUALITY, YOU PAY HIS SALARY AND PUT A ROOF OVER HIS HEAD ALONG WITH THE OTHER SHAREHOLDERS............SO WHO'S THE BOSS?