apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

All I can add to what Maxwell said is that he's absolutely right.

Are you certain these are not load-bearing walls? The house is small enough that they might not be -- but they're directly under walls on the second floor, which can make a difference. I'd look into that issue before making a final decision.

I gotta say, I disagree.... but that also depends on where the house is. Since your slideshow is called "Fliperati", I'm assuming that you intend to flip the house and not live in it, so you want to get the most bang for your buck.

If the house is in a less-affluent community (it looks like Belleville or similar eastern parts of Essex County to me), then yes, you might be ok tearing down a wall.

In a more affluent-town, or an up-and-coming town (parts of Montclair or Maplewood, or all of Madison, Chatham, etc), I'd keep the walls up and focus on getting the house historically accurate. Play up the "cottage"/Cape Cod details and the original architecture of the house. Put white hex tile on the bathroom floors, retro faucets, that kind of stuff.

I also object to ripping out the walls because by doing so, you lose a TON of storage and kitchen counter space. Without the walls, the kitchen becomes much smaller than the average apartment kitchen, and thus becomes a big negative to many people. I could see ripping out wall B, but even then, more upscale/historical accuracy types would really hate it.

Don't fight the house's natural character! Just make it a really great example of what it was born as. Its not a loft.

Second Wendy's comment -- these could definitely be load-bearing walls. You need to define the scope and budget of your renovations is you plan to take down these walls -- at a minumum, you will need and engineer's evaluation to see if it is safe to remove them.

not that i would ever disagree with maxwell, but i might take down wall a (the living room wall), too. i don't think you'd get too much of a "loft" feel, unless your ceilings are 18ft. it would certainly leave your living room less formal, but might integrate it into the space you'll use the most (the kitchen). just another perspective.

also -- as long as your ripping up carpet, etc. i think one of the most effective diy projects is new baseboards. big fat baseboards update a space unbelievably and if you find yourself incredibly handy w/a miter (re?) saw, you could even re-trim your windows, etc.

good luck!

You can try making windows bigger/longer too, simply get more light in.

Don't take down the walls. One person's before is another person's after. And...one person's after is another person's before. No matter what you do, you'll displease about half the people that will be coming to look to buy.

I know you'll probably tear out the turquoise and green bath stuff, and I think it's really cool. We just saw some gorgeous bathrooms done in another slideshow here on AT. And their "after" was to redo both bathrooms in pastels with classic colored sinks.

I don't know if there's a way to update around the tub and toilet or if they're in good shape or not. I don't know if whomever your future mystery buyer would buy just because of the cool turquoise, or that would be the thing that would break the deal. You don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows. Because you aren't making it a home for any specific person or family. You just want to make a profit.

Which is why so many homes that are built new are BORING and lack any kind of interesting details...because interesting details mean half will actually find them distasteful.

"Look at all the architectural crap, I wanted a clean-lined modern space, oh, this will never do."

"Look at all the spare details, why it's just an empty space and nothing of real substance, oh, this will never do."

So, whadaya gonna do? Take your cues from the neighborhood, like "Me" says, and consult an engineer, like Frank suggests. I'm assuming you have the necessary permits to tear out things, or have looked into it. Because, ya just can't tear stuff down.

I'd LOVE a home with lots of little rooms. With lots of doors. I'm in a studio. I don't need big rooms. I don't do big room anything (like entertaining). I don't NEED a dining room, but by golly, that dining room area would be swell for an office area for my computer and allllllll those books I have. Finally I'd have a real space for that stuff.

I wanna see the second floor. Where's the second floor plan? I'm a floor plan fiend.

And, I'd have DOORS to those rooms on the bottom floor. Oh yes. Finally. I could run around slamming doors. I'm in a studio, and never get to slam any doors. With doors, I can keep animals and humans from entering other rooms. I could cook again. Without the handy addition of long cat hair in muffins, so you can eat and floss at the same time. Oh, the joy.

OH, that's a cute little house! Four-season porch in the front! Woo hoo! Can ya move the house to California as part of the deal? I think I'm in love.

Okay, you left off the back window in the dining room in your floor plan layout. One way to add some grace and light, as it appears that the back of the home faces south is to extend the deck to cover the dining room window area also and consider a lovely french door. Possibly for both the kitchen and dining rooms. With the addition of the hardwood floors the light coming in will bounce off the floors and up and around.

Those pictures are recent, yes? We're hitting Summer Solstice soon enough, at which the sun will be at it's highest point above us...then the days get shorter and the sun seems to slide down...meaning that the angle of the sun will be so much that the sun will go across the floor of the kitchen and dining rooms, and probably come close to reaching the living room areas.

You're farther north than I am, so the sun's angle will be greater. At it lowest point, it reaches about 15', which should cover the majority of the back rooms. This also may make them very warm in spring and autumn.

Sure, my apartment is a dadgum CAVE at this time of year, with no direct sun reaching the inside at all. But when it's sunny in spring and autumn, it's a dadgum OVEN in here. Cave, or Oven. What a choice!

Stuff that would make more of an impact if I was your buyer. Split heating/cooling. That gives me the cost-saving advantage of only heating/cooling the area that I'm occupying, without wasting energy. Get those goofy individual air conditioners out of the windows.

Upgrade the windows, if possible, to be more energy efficient. Yeah, I'm big on that, and that's a valuable selling point to anyone, I think.

That little garage looks like it's seen better days, and the driveway is taking up valuable land, move it closer to the house. And if you can, add on the necessary requirement for all males, the toolshed/workbench. Make sure there's a plug in for a little fridge, where the guys can hang out, drink beer, and show off the new lawn mower. Or, for me, make sure there's a water hook up for potting flowers or getting a drink of water.

The front porch is undoubtably THE hang out though, during summer. That appears to be the north side, and would be the coolest. There ARE reasons people add those things on. Sure, it blocks the light in the living room, but that's a GOOD thing when it's hot outside. And a good thing when it's cold, so as not to let ALL the hot air out the door.

Oh, more french doors, maybe sliding, for the living/dining connection. Gosh, what a swell house. I found the second floor plan. What's the room in the upper right? Nursery? Giant closet?

I could chatter about that house all day. I get excited about all those rooms and all the ideas. There's a daylight basement. Is that where the washer and dryer are?

And the landscaping, oh, what could be done with the front and back yards. I'll have to lock you in the little room at the top of the stairs, just leave your credit card and skills at the door so I can get right to work. ;)

Great Zeus! Did I write all that? And I didn't even look at more than a few pictures.

Confession: I live in a 1950 1.5 story Cape Cod in Central Jersey, "renovated" just before I bought it to "open up" the rooms. The presence of a central staircase keeps some mystery. A base cabinet peninsula separates the living room and kitchen, which I find enjoyable when people are over (I can prep and talk) and when I want to watch tv while cooking or cleaning up. The furniture layout means folks see me but not the mess in the kitchen if they are sitting down. The open kitchen/dining space is less successful, I wish they had left larger wing walls and added built-ins both to obscure the mess and to replace lost storage. While I enjoy the open floor plan, I have less kitchen storage than most of the litchens I saw in the smallest/coolest contest (the kitchen has three windows and doors to the basement AND mudroom as well as two "missing" walls). If I were you, I would widen the openings and improve the framing, but not go all the way. You want flow, but it will not ever really be loft-like and it will only look like it is trying to be something it's not.

Perhaps a window opening between the kitchen and dining room instead of removing the wall altogether.

I vaguely recollect a house in Met Home where the wall was removed but the studs were left in place... and used to create storage/ display shelves. Might be a great way to allow the homeowner to decide how much they wanted to be able to open up.

The house looks like an American Four Square--I have one myself and love it, but the house isn't going to be something it's not. Essentially, it's a dollhouse--4 room on top, 4 rooms on the bottom, and all walls line up. Like others, I bet those walls are load-bearing. And I agree that if you widen the doorways and improve the windows that will make things better.

Sometimes, you can't bring spaces into the present--you have to accept the style in which they were build and live your life in a retro fashion.

I've seen some bad "opening up" in the many years I lived in San Francisco. Take a small house and knock out the walls and somehow you end up with a space that looks and feels even smaller. Separate rooms give a sense of movement in a home, whereas being able to see everything that's going on can actually make a person feel cramped. Then you have all the kitchen smells to deal with...and I will bet my mother that those are load-bearing walls, so knocking them out will be a very expensive reno (you'd have to run more beams), if it could be done at all. Keep your nicely-designed room layout, and open up the windows. Put in, for instance, double French doors in the dining room, leading out to Juliette balconies or a small deck. Or maybe one of the LR windows could be changed into a double-width one. Windows are expensive, but can make a huge in both ambient light and heating/cooling costs. I have been pleased with Marvin wood windows.

Otherwise, you can bring a lot of light into the space by just making everything light in color, improving the (artificial) room lighting, and losing the LR drapes. Keeping the window treatments at sill level can make a room look larger and more buoyant. If you do French doors, use curtains that are sheer and floating, like linen. Use a few big pieces of furniture rather than a bunch of small ones. Your house will be exquisite.

Well aside from the issue of load-bearing walls, I think Maxwell's initial suggestion is still a good option or at least a pass-thru. But seriously evaluate how much counter and storage space you will need/lose as well as sight-lines to block any mess. It's going to depend on how well you utilize the resulting space, especially when you can't move that chimney anyway. Having been raised in an small home with an eat-in kitchen I think any concerns on cooking odors are over-stated. The advantages of being able to socialize/entertain with your guests in the dining area while working in the kitchen more than compensate.

First off, big thanks to everyone here for all the great feedback. I’m an avid AT reader and I danced a little jig when I saw my question had been posted and generated such great discussion. Unfortunately, reading through everyone’s comments left me back where I started: torn and uncertain. I think Maxwell’s advice is probably the way to go since it strikes a nice compromise between openness and compartmentalization. However, each contrary opinion struck a chord with me as well because I like the idea of maintaining the house’s existing character and keeping the living/dining/cooking spaces separated.

I’ve definitely considered the possible ramifications of A and B being load-bearing walls and would consult an engineer before greasing up my sledgehammer, but the house just seems so small (especially the second floor) and solidly constructed that I’m very optimistic about the amount of work required to open up the kitchen to one or both of the other rooms.

In the end my goal is simply to create a space that generates an emotional response in most visitors to the house (potential buyers in mind, of course!). I want people to get that “Ooooh, this is _nice_ !” feeling the moment they walk through the door, and I’m hoping either layout (as is vs. open) would have near equal success if they are well-executed. The creative process behind getting to that “Oooooh” response is a huge part of why I’m taking on this project (and hopefully others), but sometimes the imagination can run wild and it’s impossible to decide what to do. I think it’ll be easier to make the final decision once I’m able to take down those daylight-eating curtains and get a sense of what I actually have to work with (closing on the house and starting the renovations in about two weeks).

Thanks again, everybody.

p.s. AT was on my blogroll for the first month after I launched the site (I swear!), but I recently took it off after postings on design were dwarfed by discussion of all the inane details associated with buying a house for the 1st time. It’s rightful place on the list will soon be restored…

Not everyone WANTS people in the kitchen or to chatter while doing cooking things. I'm one of those people. I know others. There are many of us out here. Yes, we've invaded. I like to disappear into the kitchen, rattle things around, create a masterpiece and present it. I don't want people in the kitchen while I'm puttering. I will gladly refresh their beverages and bring them snacks while creating, and no, there isn't anything they can do to "help"...helping gets in my way and I've got it all down to a science.

The darn pass through in this apartment kitchen is there because it's required by law...daylight must reach the kitchen. It's in the housing code. The breakfast bar part is virtually useless and has never been used by me for eating. Stools at counters are for restaurants with waitresses with beehives, and where great pie is served, and people call me "Honey" Stools at counters are also for bars, preferably smoky, with creaky wood floors and vinyl booths, where people call me something I can't repeat here. ;)

Those passthroughs SUCK.
(Stomping around)

The next Good Question will come from the buyer of the home saying some moron cut holes in the walls, leaving them NO SOLID WALL AT ALL IN THE DINING ROOM. No, that top wall in the floor plan isn't solid, it's got a window, you have to look at the pictures on the site to see that, or just look at the top picture here, that shows the top and left walls of the dining room, both with windows, and the entry to the kitchen is where the carpet is a bit dirty or matted or tracked on.

Looking into the kitchen pictures, there's the fridge, a worthless corner of counter (corners suck), there's the stove with a tiny counter to it's right, then the sink, then more counter, which is the dish drainer would go (and there's a dishwasher, so I guess that area could be used for prep).

Which leaves one main prep area to spread stuff out and do your slicing and chopping and measuring, and that's the counter that would be facing the dining area. Some of the prep tools are noisy.

Guests might be hanging out in the living area while I finish dinner and then move to the dining area when dinner is served. They wouldn't necessarily be hanging out at the dining table proper, banging their forks and knives on the table demanding food. I hope. They wouldn't even BE in the dining area.

I'd rather feel like a chef, than a cook. All my secrets hidden in the kitchen. Not "Order Up" as I slide the plate of chow across the passthrough. ;)

Pocket french doors from the dining to living, if possible, would narrow the opening, if one was left closed. I'm for narrowing and dooring every possible opening. If it's hot, I want the cool areas to stay cool. And if it's cold, I want the warmed areas to stay warm and if I'm not using that dining room, I want to seal it off. That saves a lot of money.

I'd even try to door the stairwells, to keep the heat/cool on each floor. I can carry a little space heater around with me. The house isn't cold. I am the one that is cold. The house doesn't really care what the temperature is.

I realize that a lot of people don't like the ideas of all the doors. But from an energy standpoint, it makes sense.

Other oddities that I'd love, something like a SolaTube (tube skylight) that has the exhaust fan on the second floor landing. That brings in natural light without heat. It would also serve to exhaust the heat of the day that would build up (without doors on the stairwells) in that area. Pulling in the cool night air to cool off the house.

How hot does it get there during the summer? How cold in winter? Is there another bathroom in the basement? Any chance at putting a powder room down there?

You know what makes my 4 square look bigger and what everyone comments on? Hardwood floors (Minwax Golden Pecan). Seriously. 5 years in, and it's what everyone mentions. Also, I have a lot of light from two rectangular upper windows in the living room and dining room.

I find that the shared space between the LR and kitchen is most useful--by the time you move to the DR, the cook doesn't disappear for such long stretches of time. Maybe that is just my cooking style (and menu choices). I put some photos of my "opened up" Cape on flickr--if I did it right you should be able to click my name.

If your goal here is to flip I'm not so sure the remodeling your considering will provide the greatest returns.

Depending on how long you want to live in your home and enjoy it as you'd like it or how quickly you want to turn-around this house should definitely factor into your decision to make structural changes to the integrity of the original footprint of the home. The costs and time involved with removing walls and building out more countertops and finishing the flooring and ceiling (sometimes its hard to match those wood floors) may not payoff as much as you'd think. As a few other posts stated, some prefer the coziness of the smaller spaces.

From the looks of your photo album the house has great potential and considering your original upgrades (paint, remove carpet, refinish floors) I think you should definitely make those changes first and then properly stage the home and see if you get any bites at the price you are looking for. You can always do the renovation later. Good Luck.

PS ME again: I compleely agree with atomic librarian. Hardwood floors will reflect light. You have great windows--you need to get those drapes off and pull the rugs up AND then decide if you still feel too closed in.

I say add a (French) door to wall A (and replace current door in Wall A, if there is one, with a French door, too), but don't totally remove the wall.

You'll be left with that freestanding chimney breast, which, when integrated, probably doesn't seem that weird, but stand-alone I'm guessing it's going to be an awkward oddity.

Doing a reno for flipping is a whole other animal than doing one for yourself. If that's what you plan to do, then consider the following. When house hunters walk into a home, they immediately comment on: the amount of light coming in from the windows, the floors (hardwood preferred above all else), the amount of counter space and cabinet storage in the kitchen, the existence of a separate eating area (whether a dining room or breakfast room), how much of the original details the previous owner left untouched.

If you doubt this, watch "Househunters" for a few episodes.

A pass-through is not only not in keeping with the period of your home, it would reduce both cabinet and counter space (since the counter would have to be kept clear at all times).

The open kitchen and stools-pulled-up-to-counter thing is way overdone, in my opinion, and does not fit into all homes. It can look like a dignified, senior woman squeezed into low-riding, spandex-tight trousers. It just doesn't sit right.

To increase curb appeal tenfold, spend some time and money on the exterior:
- Remove the walls from the front porch and the aluminum awning over the steps. Would improve interior light situation also.
- Remove the chain link fence from the front yard and install some simple landscaping.
- Remove aluminum siding and paint house, doors & trim different colors.

Suzy, that would appeal to some people. But again, everyone is different. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE the four-season front porch. It does provide an "air-lock" entry, being a buffer between outdoor and indoor temperatures. It also can be used as "the mud room". Otherwise folks coming in from the wet, muddy, snowy weather are tracking DIRECTLY INTO THE LIVING ROOM.

That means making a space IN the living room for people to de-shoe and de-coat and put their drippy umbrellas down. And that also means a wet, muddy mess throughout the entire rain/snow season in the living room.

Without the overhang/porch, the rain/snow can even come right in the front door, and snow (does it snow in N.J.?) could build up actually against the front door. YUCKO!

For ME, practical takes precedence over pretty. That front porch goes beyond "landing strip" to full-fledged International Airport. ;)

I love the looks of this porch, I know it's much larger, but still... http://tinyurl.com/pge3k I've always wanted a front porch.

For landscaping, I might simply put down a few color bowls or other individual potted flowers. Something to dress up the area, without the new owners requiring a Master Gardener qualification to identify and sustain the new landscaping. Then the new owners could move around the pots (maybe to the deck) if they wanted to landscape the front. I would like a picket fence and an arbor. With something incredibly good smelling growing on the arbor. Whatever grows in N.J.

By the way, I made a mistake. I had the whole site open of Glenn's at the same time I was looking/posting here, and the top picture HERE is of the living room, from the stairway, with the dining entrance to the right. Oops. The dining room picture is on his site, showing the two left windows and the window at the end.

Andrée,

I didn't mean to imply that the porch should be sliced off to the door, but rather that it would look much better as an "open porch," by removing the solid walls and aluminum awning. Then you still have a shelter before entering. Since the intention is resale, I think it would look so much more charming.

Picket fence would be nice.

I totally agree with your thoughts, Suzy, and you'll see in my posting on preliminary renovation plans that opening up the porch (even if you like the idea of a closed-in porch, those storm windows are in awful condition and it would be embarrassing to keep them in) and getting rid of that fence and other junk in the front are integral parts of the rehab of this house (clicking on my name should take you directly to that post). I appreciate your thought's about the porch's function as a buffer zone, Andree, but I'm excited about restoring the charm of the original open-air design.

Also, the dignified senior woman stuffed into spandex trousers was a great analogy from Pat. Thanks again for the continuing stream of great commentary on the renovation options -- all very much appreciated!

OHHHHhhhh, okay, Suzy. I get it! I'm soooo dense. I was just thinking the whole thing would disappear and there'd be steps up to the front door only. Hopefully there would have been steps in that scenario, otherwise that first and only "step" would've been a doozie! Aiiiiiyyyyyaaahhhhh.

Glenn, I made you a picture of the smallest room upstairs. Posted at your place too.

Before: http://tinyurl.com/zgkyn

After: http://tinyurl.com/z72wj

Just something for the binder, if you want it.

Glenn,

Thanks for the direct link to your reno posting; I had only gone directly to the slideshow. I guess your plans are ambitious enough without removing the aluminum siding and fixing whatever is underneath. Also, the siding certainly seems to be in character with the neighboring houses.

Andrée,

Nice afterdesign of the little room.

In case anyone is still interested, I've posted some new pics that show the area in question in greater detail. Check out multiple views of Wall A and Wall B by clicking on my name below.

And, thanks again, many times over, for all the great feedback.