apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

once upon a time i caught moths from a thrift store... it was terrible. the flapping terrors destroyed many sweaters and a rug. they are really hard to get rid of.

I think the chances of this happening are so slim it's worth just taking the chance. Any problem like that will probably be very easy to notice if you inpsect it carefully. I think the chances of that happening are equal to being in a plane that crashes. I have lots of used things and never have had a problem

I found termites in a wood carving but was able to dispose of it before they spread

Let me tell you the horror story of a girl who bought all new stuff from IKEA and moved to an apartment on 179th and 5th Av...and ran out of that place in shrieks and terror...covered in bitemarks from...BED BUGS. So, it isn't just the flea market stuff. Btw...Bedbugs can survive for 8-9 months without feeding and lurk in all corners.

A friend once got SCABIES from a used futon. Because scabies spread so easily, and it was high Summer in Illinois and much barely-clothed lounging on communal upholstered furniture took place, everyone staying in the same house had to shampoo all body parts with quell prophylactically. And that's why I never pick up anything upholstered off the street.

PG, are you sure the bugs came from the stuff and not from the new apartment? Because if they came from the stuff---ewww.

PG is that like the girl who bought the cactus at Ikea and it exploded with spiders? AKA a huge Urban Myth? Or did this really happen? I know that bed bugs are on the rise, but I hope that is not a true story.

I have more fears of people who live in my apartment building not keeping their homes clean and thus infesting my building with bugs or mice. It is usually like that, one or two people are gross and the whole building suffers, no matter how clean you are personally.

Oh, I forgot, once I got a thing of bulbs in a wooden planter as a gift and I found termites in the nice wet wood, not good.

eew... eew... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!

Not to be all Stephen King-scary ... but I just remembered that I was once warned by a furniture restorer that used pianos can be a real mouse motel....

no personal experience here, but the times just ran a story on the huge spike in bedbugs inceidents in nyc - i'd definitely put a ban on used upholstered stuff for the time being. yuk!

Bed bugs can arrive with new furniture because many trucks that deliver the stuff also pick up the customer's old furniture, especially mattresses, for disposal.

They can also infest your luggage at a hotel (don't put it on that carpet!) and hitch a ride home with you.

Knock on wood, since my apt my apt is filled with flea market finds. But I usually draw the line at upholstered items (and quite frankly, the place is full at this point, so it's become a non-issue.)

I am TOTALLY freaked out by this bed bug resurgence, and it is rumored that a building on my block had an infestation. I am SERIOUSLY thinking about a major effort to caulk all gaps between floor and baseboard, around holes where plumbing comes through walls, etc., etc.

As Margaret said -- ew!

Our entire apartment got infested with pigeon mites (same idea as bed bugs--nasty, barely-visible things that live in bedding and carpets and upholstery and suck your blood and leave you with red welts and itchy, only these particular nasties are carried by pigeons) when a roommate left his window open and pigeon dander drifted in and landed on his bed. Had to have the whole place treated to get rid of them. SO nasty. So, again, it's not just flea market finds that are to blame...

i wouldn't buy a used bed, but that's as far as i've gone so far. unfortunately, my budget and lifestyle right now are such that i can either afford relatively nice secondhand furntiure or relatively shitty ikea furniture. i'd rather take the chance on a bedbug outbreak than subject myself to all ikea all the time (as much as i like ikea in general).

if i had a lot of absolutely priceless furniture, it would be one thing. but an encounter with bedbugs isn't going to kill me. would it suck? sure. but i'd rather have a homier apartment for a long time and bedbugs for a little while than constantly living in fear about some freakin' bug bites. i had a run in with chiggers after a recent hike. am i going to avoid nature for the rest of my life?

I posted before that I would never, ever buy a used sofa or bed or armchair because the risk of brining something into your clean home is too enormous (I'm a germ freak anyway). But, 30 years ago, my grandparents brought over an old transister radio from their tenement on Avenue B to our home in NJ, and wouldn't you know it, roaches crawled out of the battery case.

Take the bedbugs stuff seriously, folks. Not to be alarmist, but I (a v. clean person) had an infestation at my now-former apartment (transmitted from within the building, not from items I purchased) and the experience has pretty much scarred me for life. I decided to put just everything I didn't toss into storage for 18 months (the life-span of these suckers is 12-18, not 8-9 mo from what I understand). I spoke to the supposed "bed bug guru" here in town (oft-quote UWS exterminator), and he says one of the biggest reasons for the increasing bedbug scourge is increased sharing of used furniture and the like via sources such as Craigslist. Also, FYI, you can try to inspect for bedbugs, but, unless its a really big infestation, the only way you'll know you have them is if you get bitten at night. They hide--deep inside mattresses, upholstery, and wooden furniture--until they are drawn out by the CO2 humans emit in the middle of the night, usually just pre-dawn. HUGE, HUGE ICK!

I know a couple in Washington Heights that had a bedbug infestation in which the bugs had come in from a neighboring apartment where the tenants were renting out a spare room to short term guests who'd just arrived from out of the country. Getting rid of them was quite an ordeal. No, it wasn't the end of the world, but it they had to turn their apartment inside out to get at every nook and cranny.

Given the recent surge in bedbug infestations, I would definitely think twice about second-hand upholstered goods from thrift shops and off the street.

Um, in the above paragraph, I meant that getting rid of the bedbugs was an ordeal, not the guests.

for what it's worth, claire, what that "bed bug guru" told you isn't entirely true. the rise in bed bugs is due mostly to the ban on DDT, which is one of the few pesticides which ever put a dent in bedbug populations.

i'm also not sure that they really tend to go for wooden furniture. bedbugs want to be close to where humans sleep. which means, sure, i'd be careful about wooden bed frames and night stands, but it's highly unlikely that you'll bring them into your home via a coffee table, bookshelf, etc.

Makes sense about the DDT being a cause, too. And yes, I was referring to the wood in my bedroom (nightstand, bed frame, etc.), though, I can assure you that, if you get them, you'll be thinking twice before saving ANYTHING that is upholstered or wood.

OP -- DDT was banned decades ago (1972) -- recent resurgence is complicated, but it is coming in with furniture, visitors, et al, and of course coming in from neighboring apts.

And from what I have read, an "encounter" can entail several months and throwing away a lot of your personal possessions.

Yep, it's for this reason and general fears of ickiness in general that I stick to wood and metal stuff from flea markets and used places. Although the ickiness isn't the only reason. Wooden and metal old stuff lasts, looks great, can be thoroughly inspected, cleaned, re-painted, whatever...

I also suffer from serious allergies, so the fear of bringing more dust and mold into my apartment scares me even more than bugs.

so after reading all this, i really want to set my apartment on fire and never look back. i feel infected.

claire: given the circumstances of your recent infestation, aren't you concerned about spreading bedbugs to other people's property while your furniture is in a storage facility?

Everyone in my family has bought old furniture (including upholstered items) for as long as I can remember, with never a problem. This includes the ex-husband with the Eastlake collection (he of the formerly alive owls), so we're talking a *lot* of old furniture here.

Nope, Mary. I developed a pretty detailed plan.

When I moved out, I brought with me little more than my clothes (after having every last item cleaned) and non-wood/upholstery furniture with me. All such non-clothing items were inspected, power vacuumed, and treated with pesticide prior to moving into new place. I left my mattress, wooden bedroom furniture (including wood mirrors and picture frames, etc.) in the apartment I left. The landlord said he was bringing an exterminator in to deal with the issue and, to prevent spread, he wanted me to keep everything in my unit. He supposedly was going to dispose of these belongings only after confirmation that the problem was eradicated. Frankly, I don't trust him, so I don't know what he actually did.

As for my stuff in storage, it was moved only after fumigation, and everything--and I mean everything--I stored, was sealed in plastic boxes or wrapped very, very, very througly in plastic sheeting before being moved to a storage unit. Remember...I couldn't risk bringing the suckers (no pun intended) with me to my new pad, or to the place I crashed for the month in between apartments. Besides, the LAST thing I would want to do is transfer the problem somewhere else.

Admittedly, you can treat a place for bedbugs while living there, and you need not throw everything out. I, however, was skeeved beyond belief, and was ultra-cautious. The whole thing cost me (and is costing me) thousands, but the good news is that I have swank new furniture now, and more room in my new pad given all the stuff that is in storage for the next 16 months.

it takes a LONG time for a species to bounce back from decades of DDT. a lot of species that were on the verge of extinction due to pesticide use are just now (30 years post-DDT) starting to noticeably come back.

i kind of don't get what the obsession is here. maybe i'm a slob? maybe i'm just not that attached to my posessions? maybe it's because i grew up in the country, confronted a lot more often with the idea that, yeah, we share this planet with all kinds of creatures, cute and not so cute?

it also seems that most of the ways to end up with a bed bug infestation are fairly impossible to avoid. i'm not going to stop traveling or having houseguests. there's nothing i can do if they crawl into my place from another unit in my building. so, yeah, whatever.

Opoponax -- Note that the people here who are totally casual about buying old furniture (you and me) are the ones who have also had no problems. I'm wondering what we're doing differently. It's not climate or the years we bought. It's not just lack of bad luck so far, given my age and number of times I've been around the flea market. Wood type? Penchant for furniture with a stuffing that bed bugs don't like? Sources for furniture? Attitude that scares bed bugs into running for their lives?

For what it's worth, the bedbug thing has experienced a big uptick here in NYC only recently, from what I've read.

I personally wouldn't buy used upholstered or wood furniture again after my horrifying experience, but that's only because I'm fairly well-scarred from my personal experience (the bites REALLY REALLY itch!!). I think such occurrences still remain fairly rare, and I believe firmly that I was simply unlucky. Besides, remember-- used furniture is only ONE source of possible infestation of icky critters, and I didn't even have any recently purchsed secondhand furniture in my apartment! I got the things from a neighbor! (Who knows where he got his furniture and bed....)

Bedbugs also like to nest/lay eggs in your papers - one of my friends had a major infestation in her building in the Bx, and despite vacuuming, putting things in plastic bags, spraying, etc, they moved with her to a temp location.

Some things that can be done, apparently, is to put vaseline around the bedframe, they;ll get stuck in it and you'll know if you have them. Also, lavendar oil/lavender in your bedding supposedly kills them (???not sure on this, but I love lavender anyway, so it's a nice spritz on the sheets).

It's a hellacious problem, because they're so small, and fumigation (like roach spray and bombs) doesn't work on them. It's also not spread by being 'dirty' - they don't eat detritus, they eat people!

THe bed bug problem is also pretty prevalent in places other than NYC.

Yeah. It was TONS of fun going through each and every one of my books and papers. Not. Luckilly, they all were downstairs at the opposite end of my apartment from my bedroom, and there was no sign of infestation in them or other papers. Nevertheless, my books--like so much else--are boxed, sealed, and stored away for quite some time.

Since I started this discussion on dreaded bedbugs, I thought I would post some clarifications.

So, this gal turns up at my place totally traumatized by the experience. She said that the bugs were in that apartment (address in my first post) and the infestation was so deep that it had been totally fumigated, exterminated etc thrice over and these critters were still running riot on the walls in broad daylight (no shame there I tell you!):) The exterminator 'claimed' that he had never seen any infestation this bad in his entire career.

So, she washed all her clothes, packed them and left them on the pavement of this building until she moved out.
Left most of her brand new furniture that she had brought from IKEA in that apartment (they were clean to begin with but she couldn't risk moving them over to her new residence) and junked her brand new mattress.

And came to stay the night at my place.
It seemed like a sensible plan to me. Although immensely wasteful and traumatic.

But she also said, that bed bugs travel in many different ways, their eggs travel by clothes and what not.

Does that alarm me? Yes.
Can I do anything about it? Probably not until next spring or summer..

So, I am watching my quarters carefully but won't be splitting any hair over it.

oh, Claire, that is so terrible. You are incredibly amazing for going through such an ordeal. I know some people seem to think they would/could be very casual about such a thing happening to them, but all of us here are really home oriented and to think that something so vile could drive you from your sanctuary, it is just heartbreaking. It reminds me of having one's home robbed. By any chance, does insurance (yours or your land lord's) cover any of this for you?

The good news is that I was in a cheap rental building and was thinking of moving soon anyway. Also, none of my furniture was that fantastic. No family heirlooms or fab vintage finds were left behind.

The experience was seriously nasty and I still get the heebie jeebies from it. However, the opoponax is correct--you can't live your life in fear from such things and in doing so you'll miss out on some great finds and great experiences (I'm a hiker too). There are bugs and rats and theives and nasty neighbors and plumbing problems and all kinds of horribles to experience while living in the city. It's all part of the bargain.

I inititally wrote to share my experience and to warn people about one possible risk to consider when bringing home secondhand furniture. It is important to keep things in perspective, however. I could afford to move. I had friends and family to crash with. I was able to swing buying some new furniture. And, to cap it off, the bites (unlike bites from some other critters) don't cause any long term damage. Healthy and housed and safe and sound. Everyone should have it so good!

claire, sorry you had to go through that!

Yes, I also second the opponax's post...you can't live your life in fear. Having to abandon your home and possessions because of a critter invasion does sound pretty awful and traumatic, but unless we all want to seal ourselves away from the world in some kind of Howard Hughes-esque way, we're all at risk of many different types of trauma, be it illness, accidents, human/animal violence, or critter infestation.

wende, I'll vote for scary attitude, although I wish I could use my scary attitude to get rid of the skunk that's plaguing the back yard of my (non-NY) building. Sadly, I'm the one who's scared to get too close to it!

Wow, this is like an early Halloween posting.

Oh, if we're talking SKUNKS, it must be scary attitude. When we lived in a dinky town above Berkeley, I came home one night to find a huge skunk and an equally large raccoon romping on our front lawn. I have no idea why they ran back to the storm drain and started a new life across the city line in Berkeley -- maybe they were afraid I'd make them help grade whatever MBA homework I was carrying.

Colleen, I wish it was a legend: we had bed bugs! I couldn't believe it. We don't know from where they came. They might be in the apartment building or may be we catched them on a trip, sometimes they get into your suitcases. Since DDT has been banned they are showing up everywhere. Ask around, so many hotels (not just the cheapy ones) are having troubles. It is not easy to get rid of the suckers!

I'm a long-time garbage picker and I've ALWAYS cleaned my finds thoroughly, no matter what the item. Some items were even crawling with baby roaches when I found them, but I was not deterred. After scrubbing down the item, in some cases I then made a paste from boric acid & water, applied it all over and let it sit for an hour or so. Then I'd wash it again, make sure it was dry, then saturate it with Raid*. When it was completely dry, I'd paint it. Any item that HAD roaches? I never saw them again. On some wood items, I even filled in holes with that "wood filler" paste (AFTER cleaning, of course: I noticed that roaches like wood, and a hole in wood is like a condo to them).

*A word about Raid: for decades I used other insecticides... Raid was one of the older brands. But I recently rediscovered it (thanks to Home Depot and the low price they ask for it), and it was immediately apparent that the product is vastly improved compared to the last version I used in the early '70s. And it smells pretty good too! I use the "Outdoor Fresh" scent. Caution: It's pretty strong stuff, so when I'm doing a "deep clean" and plan to spray a lot of it (like I just did in my kitchen), I put Vaseline all over my face and in my nostrils: without it, I could feel the stuff going in my skin, there was a tingly sensation and it almost felt like menthol. The Vaseline put a stop to that.

I am just wondering what the bites look like from bed bugs and if there are lots of them all the time? A month ago I was getting ready to move to a new apt. The night before as I was packing I saw a strange bug behind a picture on the wall. Throughout this summer I have experienced a large amount of what I though were mosquito bites on my legs. I assumed the mosquitoes in NYC were worse this summer, but then freaked out and thought I might have bed bugs. I threw out my mattress and moved but still have bites. Does anyone have any thoughts?

rk-bites can sometimes appear three or four in a line. The bugs know where to go for a blood source. You'll be grossed out, but search google images for some photos.
My bedbug experience was hellish. To give you an idea, I'd rather sleep with a bed full of roaches before I'd want to deal with another bedbug infestation. It affects you psychologically--they suck your blood while you sleep. It's difficult to relax and fall asleep know that is ahead of you. There's a weird shame involved too. I mentioned it to someone at work, and this person would no longer enter my office. Like I was contagious. Very costly, too. I though I was rid of them, would buy new stuff, then end up throwing it out because they came back. I wouldn't wish this ordeal upon my worst enemy.

RK -- They look alot like mosquito bites, but tend to be a little redder and at least mine itched more persistently. Also, Sue is correct--they usually bite in rows. My bites wereon my unexposed extremities (e.g., I slept in a tank top and pajama bottoms and had bites on my shoulders and upper arms, and on my feet).

The first thing is that the mosquito season is over, so if you're still getting bitten, that might be a problem. (It also could be another sort of pest, such as fleas or spiders, so don't assume bedbugs right away. If you are concerned you have bedbugs, the first thing to do is to closely inspect your mattress --the creases, around the buttons, etc particularly for reddish brownish dots and smears. You probably won't see bugs unless the problem is really bad. Also, I would suggest white sheets because it's easier to see the suckers (and their/your blood on them). The best time to search is in the middle of the night, just predawn after you've been in bed (As I noted above, the things are drawn to humans and are nocturnal).

If you have them, take it seriously and hire a very good exterminator who should give you a plan of action (involving covering your mattress in plastic, cleaning all of your clothes, how and where to power vacuum, and otherwise preparing your apartment for extermination. It is a TIME CONSUMING process, but if you do it very very througly, and the infestation isn't too bad, one time may do the trick.

Good luck!

Claire and Sue,
Thank you both for your advice, I know this isn't typical apartmenttherapy discussion but very helpful to me. At this point I'm not sure what to do. My boyfriend thinks I am absolutely crazy since he hasn't been bitten. A few more questions. Are the bites consistent, i.e. every single night? Do they develop immediatly? I guess if I do have bed bugs that would explain why they are only on my legs. What would be the next step to call an exterminator or go to a doctor to check out the bites? Also have you taken out a flashlight in the middle of the night to check for them? And do you feel more itchy at that time, do you feel them biting? Thank you for helping me with this potential crisis!

rk: At the beginning of the infestation I thought it could be an allergy, my boyfriend was not bitten. Only me, as Claire and Sue say in the legs. It was also spaced by 5 to 7 weeks. Then the things got worse with time. When my boyfriend got bitten, we went to bed with a torch and we saw them. I cannot express our feelings when we saw thwm. We had to throw the bed, bedsides tables and all the rest. We were into exile, while fumigating. When we came back we got just a mattress and pillows, covered in a special bag. We installed a double face tape barrier around the mattress and guess what! we trapped some of them that were still there AFTER the fumigation that were coming back right to suck us more blood! I took us months and lots of patience to get rid of them

Phyllis: Wow--thanks so much for your thorough info on how to defumigate secondhand fare.... I'll print it out for future reference. I'd hate to find myself too scared to buy things from thrift shops again. Though I have to say that I have never been comfortable with picking up anything upholstered from the street or in shops or online. The little chair in my picture, which you can't really see too well, is very small and the upholstery minimal.

Though when I posted this question I wasn't thinking at all about the bedbug infestation that's been in NY papers this past year, I'm glad to see that some helpful information has been exchanged among all of you. I'm sorry for those of you who've had your lives disrupted. I can't imagine how traumatic it must have been. Good luck to you.
Thanks for sharing, everyone.

It's people like opoponax that we can thank for bed bugs infestations. They just don't see what the big deal is, so why bother to be careful when you live in a high population density area where others are affected by your actions?

I rented a West Village studio in 2004 for $1800 that became infested with bedbugs. At first I thought I was getting mosquito bites from leaving the courtyard windows open. I have no idea where they came from - I bought no second-hand furniture or clothes.

The bites, at first, were every couple of weeks and then it was almost every week. The bites do look like small, hard, raised mosquito bites except that often there were two or three of them on the same leg or arm. When it got really bad, I could flip up the mattress at 5 am and SEE at least three or four of the little brown f**kers running around on the bedframe.

Like the other poster, as I planned to move out, I systematically washed all my clothes in hot water with extra hot dryer cycle and then bagged the SANITIZED stuff (including books, kitchen utensils, everything) in transparent plastic bags FOR A YEAR afterwards. I threw away my entire bedroom set and fumigated the rest of the furniture that I decided to keep with a double application of Raid on the rooftop.

I am certain that I've inhaled enough pesticide for ten lifetimes, and wish that I'd identified the problem earlier. Good luck.