Note: This is LONG. However, it is well written, and this type of issue is about details. We include all of it for those who are patient and can give some good advice.
Hello AT,
We hired a cabinet installation company [name removed on request of company - editor] to do our new kitchen cabinets--both their 'design and measuring' service and full installation. We're not happy.
My credit card was charged the fee for the measuring and design service at the moment I sent my info over their website requesting an appointment--weeks before the work was actually done. The guy who came to do the measuring and design was hours late. Despite my repeatedly pointing out that the jobsite address was different than my credit card billing address, he drove to the wrong bourough and then had to double back..... (more below)
When he got to the apartment, i showed him what I'd sketched, and he pretty much said it was a great design, made few adjustments, and printed out some plans from his portable printer. We have a funky-shaped kitchen with a lot of old, crooked walls and warpy floors, so I made sure to ask him if the cabinets and countertops could be fit to the actual space. Sure, he said.
It took some time to get the work scheduled; there was some confusion about an insurance certificate our co-op board needed to approve the work, and the cabinet installation company people didn't always call me back promptly. When the installers came, everything initially seemed fine. We'd asked the company if we should do anything special to prepare the space, and they said all that was necessary was to cover the floors, which we did.
When we got home at the end of the second day, however, things looked disgusting. The workers hadn't cleaned up after themselves even in the most cursory fashion. They'd done a good deal of cutting (we used butcher block countertops), so there was sawdust everywhereno one had swept, there were piles of sawdust on the countertops, inside the drawers and cupboards, on every available surface. Our small household garbage can was jammed full of construction refuse, so badly that I couldn't get the bag out intact and it broke, spilling even more sawdust all over.
Worst, there were piles and piles of sawdust, dirt and grit all over the stainless steel oven we had just bought. We'd left the oven in the box and assumed they were going to dry fit it, but also assumed that they'd throw a plastic sheet over it before dumping any dirt or garbage on it. We'd gladly have covered any furniture exposed, but had been assured that it wasn't necessary. As it was, sawdust coated everything in our adjoining living room, including computers and electronics. A leather jacket I'd accidentally left on the coffee table between the kitchen and living room was coated in dirt and grit on both sides, as if it had been dropped on the floor a couple of times.
There was also a blue bolt head in the middle of the wall between the wall and base cabinets in the kitchen; it wasn't there before, and we can only guess that it was a mistake made by the installers. The moulding underneath the wall cabinets was poorly cut and joined--the joints were gappy and rough, very ugly, like someone hadn't measured. The countertop was installed with an almost half inch gap between the rear wall and the end of the countertop. Filler strips that had been installed in the wall cabinets were cut crookedly and not flush with the top of the cabinets--one of them still had the pencil mark visible on it where the cut *should* have been. The island we'd had constructed out of cabinets was a mess--the laminate backing was already peeling off in a place, none of the joints were flush, the countertop edge was cut at an angle rather than straight-up-and-down where it was supposed to meet the wall, leaving another unsightly gap. Also, the standard toekicks that had been suggested were a disaster on our uneven floors.
And then there was some stuff that was just weird: the installers used our digital camera (without our permission, they just found it on the bookcase) to take pictures while they were working. They left a drill bit rolling around on one of the shelves. They threw out some hundred year old moulding we'd removed from the wall where the island was going, even though we'd placed it away from the work area on purpose so it wouldn't be mistaken for refuse, and even though they *didn't* toss out most of the extraneous materials left over from their *own* work. They also left a note saying they hadn't quite been able to finish, and we should call them to schedule the installation of two more filler pieces.
I sent cabinet installation company a letter detailing all this by fax the next workday. The proprietor called me immediately, and was clearly very concerned. He assured me that most people were so happy with their work that when someone wasn't, it really stuck out and made them want to make things right. I told him at that point that we wanted someone to come in and fix what could be fixed, and that I was unwilling to pay full price for the job that had been done. He had the leader of another crew contact us, and he made an appointment to come by at the end of that week.
He was half an hour late before he called to say he was having trouble "finding parking." When he finally showed, he was personable, and had some good suggestions about how to better the work--he suggested chrome legs underneath the island cabinets rather than toekicks given our uneven floors (which was such a good suggestion I wondered why the designer hadn't offered it originally), and said he'd replace all the filler strips in the wall cabinets, fill the gap between the countertop and the wall with a trimmed-to-fit part of the leftover countertop that could be hidden by a backsplash, and that he'd remake the island and use a new laminate back panel. He said he'd call us when the legs we needed were in stock, and would schedule then.
After he left, we had the super up to hook up our dishwasher, and he pointed out some additional problems: two cabinet doors weren't hung straight. He also mentioned the cabinet installation company installers had been rude to him when he'd been in our apartment at the same time they had, in order to do some electrical work for us. We emailed the new cabinet installation company guy about the doors, and he responded rather snarkily, "Is there anything else you like [sic] to add to the list that seems to add up whenever the super is around."
He did, however, agree to fix the doors on top of everything else. Then he called back to say Ikea was out of the laminate panel we needed, and would we be okay with two smaller ones joined by a seam. We said no, and are still waiting for him to get back to us with an estimate of when the parts might be ready.
In the meantime, I wrote to the cabinet installation company headquarters again and said that while I was appreciative that they were trying to make it right, that the guy's lateness and snarky comments coupled with the long wait for parts that effectively more than doubles our period of kitchen-limbo didn't do much to restore our faith or good-nature. I said we were looking forward to the kitchen being fixed, but still wanted a reduction on the installation fee.
They called today to say there would be under no circumstances a reduced fee. And I'm wondering: am I being unreasonable? These people did a crappy job, and while I appreciate that they're willing to fix the parts that can be fixed, I don't think waiting over twice as long and coordinating twice the interruption in order to get what we paid for in the first place is a good bargain. I don't want to pay full price for this much headache. I can't tell you how much I wish we'd gone with someone else.
What's to be done when you're not happy with a contractor's work? I did sign a contract with these guys, but the work they did was bad, by their own admission. Is their responsibility limited to correcting the mistakes, at which point can they collect their full fee no matter how long it took or how many tries?
Thanks, LH
Dear LH, this is the position everyone wants to avoid. While there are many responses, we would counsel patience, persistence, avoiding emotion at all costs and sticking ruthlessly to the contract and to the agreed upon complaints or things remaining on your punch-list. That is, if you want to continue to work with them.
If you just don't like the whole thing and don't trust anyone in their organization, there is a way of calling off the whole contract and paying whatever amount you two agree upon.
At times, contractors or people who do this type of work can get defensive and rude, especially to women. That is just our experience. Don't let yourself be dragged into a rude or emotional or snarky conversation. Reacting to this bait will not get you anywhere. Stay totally professional, stick to the facts and they will finish the job and leave because they have to.
The issue of how much you pay is a tricky one. Look hard at the contract. Probably they protect themselves against losing money for any reason, but check. If there is a clause that pertains to less than satisfactory work, call them on it and agree on the final price so that you can both move on. Also, only talk about money with the people highest up the food chain. They should be far more rational and interested in moving on than the guys who did the work. Anyone else?
First thing you do, is you check and see if the business actually had a valid, current contractor's license when it did your work. Don't believe a license number listed on business materials! If the contractor was unlicensed, they may not be able to enforce your contract to pay, and you certainly have leverage for getting them to fix things.
Here are the NYC rules:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/licenses/100.shtml
And the Dept of Consumer Affairs has a mediation process:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/resources/resources.shtml
For non-NYC people, this site tells you who regulates contractors in each state:
http://www.contractors-license.org/
Licensing is worth checking -- one of the most upscale contractors out here in SF happened to not renew its license just at the time that it also happened to completely screw up my friend's closet rehab.
I think the writer's first mistake was to not be present while the work was done. The crew should have cleaned up the job site, but you can't withhold payment for that.
I hope the writer gets satisfaction, but the moral of the story is to watch the crew. You really can't assume that anything will get done the way you want.
First--and for future reference or for others who are looking to do a reno--it's important to have personal references for a contractor. Don't just rely on a general reputation--make sure that you talk to someone who has actually worked with the contractor. If you don't know anyone who can recommend a good contractor, insist on references--any contractor with his (or her) salt will provide them. Also (see below), check for complaints lodged with the BBB.
And second, the best advice I can offer is to contact the BBB, and tell the contractor that you're going to do it. While a bit of mess is going to happen when you have that kind of work done, what you're describing is totally unacceptable, and their attitude after-the-fact is inappropriate--though not necessarily unexpected. Get in touch with a consumer advocate organisation and at least register a complaint.
Good luck!
Old world rule...used on 6 continents. Start with small deposit (10%)....when all the work is "finished", and the "old man" (ie, owner, proprietar foreman) walks over every corrected flaw/detail with you. Then and only then do you pay. They know that if you dont pay they need to hire a contract attorney (min. $500) to file a mechanics lien which takes years and most courts take a dim view of shoddy contractors. Most contactors are onto the yuppie market (ie, sounding empathetic to concerns) of overdelivering on the sales side, then contracting out to schlock laborers. The first signs things were amsiss, was lateness. I had $3000+ black granite installation job where the guy never showed upp; then the girl in the office called up next day to say he was on the way. Told her have the owner call me; she said he is out in the field. I told her forget the job; He called back inseconds from same #. I told him he wasd 24 hours late & to drop dead. Chalk it up to tuition and hire someone who's work you can "SEE" first and comes with references (not a rookie RE broker) on similar jobs on high priced real estate. Then get written estimates and proceed with caution. Contracting should be done on a cash basis; its what they understand. The golden rule: you have the gold make the rules.
Did you put this on your credit card? Make a complaint to the c.c. company and stop payment.
Traemand is scheduled to come measure our office space tomorrow. I used them at home a couple of years ago and it went well enough. What's the name of the crew who did the shoddy job (just so I can avoid them?) And what was the name of the guy who came and fixed it later?
Thanks,
T
I think this is why many people use designers or architects who are experienced in acting as something of a project manager -- because they're VERY invested in seeing their design through to completion so that their vision and the client's satisfaction are fulfilled.
It's also why apartments with renovated kitchens tend to sell for prices that are far higher than the actual price the renovation cost, because the "human cost" of dealing with renovations, including city, state and co-op board approvals, etc., has already been paid.
But it's also why people worship at the altar of a contractor that they've loved working with. But even, at that, the person they refer them to, will have a different temperament that may not tolerate the things that the first person writes off as "the is-ness of life."
I never quite got the concept of someone providing a reference, though...
Aren't they only going to provide a reference for someone for whom the project went off without a hitch? It still doesn't ensure that for every one reference they give you, there aren't 100 disgruntled homeowners cursing the contractor's name... or am I missing something?
A really top-notch contractor will provide a complete list of recent clients and let the next victim call *any* of them at random.
Otherwise, p(too), the purpose of getting references is to analyze them for warning signs:
--A contractor who used to be good but is now in hot water will provide glowing references that are more than three months old.
--A contractor who is rarely good will provide glowing references that are scattered over a surprisingly long period of time.
--A contractor who is always annoying but not actually criminal will provide references where you call the prior client and they give short, evasive answers. "It went fine -- bye."
--A contractor who is actually criminal will figure that most people won't actually call the references, so they'll all have non-working phone numbers or be relatives or be people who would actually give you an earful if you did call them.
Patrick, The key is to ask the contractor for the names of people they are working for right now and talk with those folks, even visit the job site if it's feasible. A contractor is only as good as his/her last job, and as you say, it's easy enough for them to come up with at least one good reference.
I'd also like to put a plug in for Angie's List, which I have been using since I bought my place two years ago. With only one exception, I have been delighted with everyone I have worked with that was referred through that service. Angie's also has a complaints department (called Neighbors in Action) that tries to broker peace with unhappy homeowners and tradespeople. LH, it may be worth the cost of joining the list just to see if they can straighten out your situation. I think membership is about $65 annually.
I notice that the owner (I believe) of Traemand responded to another customer's complaint here pretty recently, which makes me think they may be willing to work something out with you.
If that fails, disputing the credit charge, if there is one, would be a smart move. It can take a few months for your credit card company to investigate a complaint, so if you're inclined to do it, go ahead and get the paperwork for them now.
BBB is another possibility, although I honestly don't have tons of faith in the group. I've known enough folks who were burned by companies considered in good standing by the BBB. They are, after all, an association supported by business owners, so I think there is some conflict of interest in serving the public and protecting their members.
Well, crud. I just checked Angie's List and saw that their New York chapter is not up and running yet. The only active chapters on the east coast are Philly and Boston.
I actually contacted this same company for references because I am considering doing a kitchen makeover myself. But NOW I have doubts.... Clearly they would only provide references who are willing to glow about work done there.
Is it possible for AT readers to start getting a list of contractors they've had favorable experiences with?
And those they've had not-so favorable experiences with?
I spent over a year being very nice to a car dealership regarding a problem with a used car I (stupidly -- but let's not even go there) bought from them. It was only after I got fed up and wrote a letter to the owner of the dealership, and copied the car manufacturer and my attorney on it, that the problem got resolved. Almost instantaneously. I've always hated it when people threaten legal action, but it turned out to be the only thing that worked.
In the Hindsight-Is-20/20 category, a few more things to check before hiring a contractor for a major job.
1. LITIGATION, if your area has civil court cases available online. It's obviously a bad sign if clients are suing your contractor. It's also a bad sign if your contractor is suing people who did not pay for large jobs. Why? Because contractors typically operate with little cushion to pay their suppliers and laborers if a client doesn't pay them. If your future contractor is suing someone for $30k, that's $30k in materials they can't buy for a future client such as you.
2. CREDIT REPORT from Equifax. You can run a business' credit report without its permission. Again, you are looking for whether the contractor is paying suppliers. If there are problems, you can bet that your project will not get done on schedule, if it gets done at all.
3. PUBLIC RECORDS, again if your county makes them searchable online. Now you're looking for liens. Liens for city/county tax assessments are no big deal unless there's a pattern of them, but if the state or the IRS is consistently after the contractor, that's a Very Bad Sign.
This looks like a lot of work, but it's less work than coping with a really screwed-up rehab project.
wende/keri--
Great insight into the references game. Thanks!
To LH--
I do think adding the Super's two cents into the mix complicated things a bit...
And as much as I like the staff of the building I am in, I have seen them be outrageously rude to trades and service people. So isn't there the remote chance your super antagonized the contractors along the way...?
Does an antagonizing super excuse bad work?
i thought i'd update you all on the progress, since things have gotten a little better.
the second team that came in to remake our kitchen island did a good job--the island looks way better, and they cleaned up their piles of sawdust. however, we were stuck waiting for their lead guy for over two hours. he had car trouble, and i sympathize--no fun and not possible to anticipate, but given all the other latenesses it was still aggravating.
when they were finished for the day, things looked good except for one glaring error: the seam where the countertop on the island met the wall was even worse than it had been--gappier. the moulding we'd tacked in no longer cover it. they said they could correct the gap, but it meant recutting the counter top and losing a few inches, which would sacrifice the few inches of overhang on the free side. we said that wasn't okay, and that they needed to get a new piece of counter top and cut it correctly. they were visibly bummed, and i haven't heard back from them to confirm that they're replacing the countertop. i'm hoping we're on the same page; the guy hasn't returned my call yet.
also, about the super: he wasn't there critiquing the hanging of the doors to the workers themselves, he was in the apartment to do another job for us and mentioned they'd been rude to him. later, when the Traemand guys had finished, he came in to do some plumbing and pointed out to us that two cabinet doors weren't hung straight, and we added that to the work we wanted fixed. it's possible it was awkward for them having him around, but . . . paul's a great, kind guy. i can't prove he isn't a jerk when i'm not around, but i doubt it.
upshot: assuming we're in agreement about the countertop, Traemand has been really good about re-doing the shoddy work. my remaining concern is that there's no compensation for the fact that the schedule has doubled, it's been three times the headache, and our moulding is gone (as well as my oogie feeling about them using my camera). is it totally unreasonable to ask for a discount if things go this badly? i did ask if they'd be willing to reduce the price a little, and they were adamant about refusing. after i harped and harped at the owner, he finally agreed to send us an ikea gift certificate once the work was complete. the workers who came to re-install everything even refused to haul away the construction debris as a small courtesy for all the inconvenience.
they're reasonable people, and this hasn't been a disaster--just long and stressful.
another clarification: there's someone else with the same intials as me who's had Traemand trouble; his or her story is in the other comments thread about the company. that person had a different sort of work done, and the owner responded to his/her story, but i wanted to point out that it's a different story than mine. there are two LHs.
If you want to pay a reduced amount, you'd probably need a lawyer to work it all out. Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean you have to pay no matter what the other guy does. You're entitled to get what you contracted for.
That said, enforcing the contract will probably require litigation given that they refuse to mark down the price. Did your contract include a time frame? The more things that were in the contract, specifically laid out, the better. And what was said outside the four corners of the document (e.g. "I know this says nothing about how we paint the cabinets, but don't worry, we will.") is a lot harder to enforce than what is in the contract.
Keep taking those digital pictures of what they did, and keep documenting every communication (i.e. write letters or emails (registered/certified letters are better) just in case. (You did take pictures of what they did, right?) The fax was an excellent start to keeping records. Good luck.
I was just looking at my "favorites" list on another browser and noticed Traemand on there. They are recommended by IKEA when you buy their cabinets. I'll think twice after reading about your terrible experience with them.
I don't ever intend to use Traemand after reading this.
To both LHs,
I initially recommended Traemand to AT after they did the plans (but not the installation) of my kitchen.
I posted at the time that they did a great job on the plans. It's true. I could not have faced the very difficult ordering and planning process without Traemand's help, but that is no excuse for service like this.
I feel terrible for recommending them after learning that the service they provided you was so poor.
I also wanted to say that (unrelated to Traemand's service) I'm hitting a few bumps along the road with my contractor. Things are taking longer than scheduled, some of the work is shoddy and the contractor acts like I am strange for demanding quality work.
I wonder if managing a list of contractors, handy people and the like is a service that AT could get into? I'd gladly pay an annual fee to access information like that!
Also, someone earlier in the thread said that some tradespeople tend to give women more of a time. Sadly, I'd agree. Some of them, I've found also are awkward around gay men as well. A few years ago, a guy fixing my ceiling made an inappropriate comments about me as a gay person and I had to ask him to leave my apartment before the work was done.
Again, sorry the LHs had a hard time. Since Im going through similar struggles right now, I feel for you.
Traemand depends on referrals from Ikea. If ATers find they aren't getting the service they need, you might try to include Ikea Corporate (forget the stores -- they are also very unresponsive) in the cc:s of your letters and faxes to Traemand.
Tara--
No, but it certainly doesn't help the relationship, or the contractor's enthusiasm for coming to (or back to) the site.
LH--
Not saying your super has split personality, but it seems odd that Traemand would make that comment about the punch list growing after the super's involvement...
Chris--
I think it's entirely possible for multiple people to have multiple experiences with a service like this, since so many variables come in to play, including the subs they themselves use at each job.
Sorry to hear about your installation nightmare. I don't know that you ever get a break on that stuff -- and I do mean a price break. I'd focus on getting the job done right, not on the discount. Of course they should bring it in on time AND correctly, but some stuff you just have to let go.
About tradespeople -- there *are* a few more local sites for information swapping online, but there really is no substitute for personal recommendations. In Brooklyn, brownstoner.com and parkslopeparents.com both carry recs in various forms.
Unfortunately, someone that is great on one job might not be brilliant on another - especially if they take on too much work. And then there's the issue of chemistry. I keep a list of tradespeople that are normal with women and queers. In B'klyn, there are several female painters/plasters/GCs that take some of the pain out of that part of the process...nothing is a guarantee tho.
LH -- I don't think you are being unreasonable. I would not expect them to budge, but I'd print out this thread and let them know how many of us are waiting for the outcome. It's not too late for them to clear their name if they want more work! Go LH!
P(2) -- I totally agree with you.
When you buy a product -- what you bring home is what you see at the store. A service, like a contractor, is a totally different ball of wax. A single or even numerous recommendations cannot give you the full story. Sure, one team from a contractor's crew may have done a great job, but are they the same folks doing your work? how stable is the work crew? The contractor's folks probably do a good job when and if the contractor comes around, but the minions play when the cat is away! Furthermore, even when you get recommendations -- are you looking at the end product and not considering the process, time, cost, professionalism, budget? When I had work done, the recommendations the contractors put me in touch with were for projects with budgets 4-5X our budget. Naturally, I thought it all looked fantastic, because the materials were more expensive. I've also had a tile dude who did superb quality work, but took FOREVER -- so I'd never recommend him. I guess here's my point -- simply giving a yay or nay on a contractor is not adequate. Instead, I'd recommend our community to think about how and what we should be looking/asking for in a contractor. Due diligence in purchasing services is really different from selecting a sofa or a bed.
Emailed thread to Ikea Corporate. Expect a speedy resolution. Also, post on Epinions....that site make them tremble & shiver!
Chris, please do not feel bad. It is completely understandable that people have different experiences with the same company.
Cheers,
lh (the other one!)
The rules of thumb I hear over and over about remodeling are:
1) It will take way longer than you expected.
(and you need to be prepared for how long you are expecting... I think some people enter into the process expecting time to be measure din days and weeks, not months...). But you CAN put an end date into a contract. It's just hard to enforce, and the SLIGHTEST change or delay YOU cause means that date is pretty much out the (yet to be installed) window.
2) It will cost much more than you were quoted.
Most things I've read say you should plan/budget for *at least* DOUBLE what you are quoted... ESPECIALLY when doing demo, since god only knows what surprises lurk behind New York walls.
Are either of these things the contractor's fault? Perhaps. Partially. Sometimes. But part of it is just the frustrating nature of a process that is more art than science. And art, as we all know is HIGHLY subjective. :)
Both good rules of thumb...
...while it's possible to bring in a home improvement project on time and within budget, you have to plan and manage it as rigorously as if you were building another Brooklyn Bridge (and with realistic assumptions and carefully chosen workers). I've done it, but it's nowhere *near* the stress-free, "just bring in our contractors and we'll make it happen" experience that some companies promise.
I just wanted to add a few comments about price increases once the work commences.
Avoid project creep, as in "Oh, while you're here can you take care of these four things I've been meaning to fix?"
Have a solid plan before you bid out the job so as to minimize change orders, which will cost you time and money.
Provide contractors who bid on your work with the material specifications in your request for bid. This means giving the brand name or cost for the things you want installed.
Surprisingly, it seems like many don't know to do this but it's crucial in getting an accurate bid. A vague bid request gives contractors lots of wiggle room. They know many people will go with the lowest bid, so underestimating the cost of materials is one way contractors can give you a low bid but then raise the price once the work starts.
For example, the type of cabinetry is not listed other than to say maple cabinetry. The contractor bases his estimate on the cost of builders-grade cabinets, and when you go to order what you want, you discover that the line item in your budget isn't sufficient. Suddenly your cost for the job goes up. Repeat with each material cost in your budget and watch your remodeling budget balloon.
Consider working with an architect or designer; you may actually come out ahead by investing the cash in a design professional. I'm planning a large (to me) remodeling project and I hired an architect who charges about 9% of the budget cost.
On the other hand, a friend of mine, who was completely incredulous that I would hire someone and not just design it myself, just finished up a kitchen remodel that took four months longer than expected and cost about 30% more than the original budget. A lot of the problems that were discovered during the demolition stage would have been caught by a designer or architect.
Finally--and sorry for the novella here--but it is a good idea to have a contigency fund for emergencies for things that do turn up. But, if you're smart about how you handle it, you hopefully won't be hit with many costly surprises.
i really don't get the controversy over the super issue. he says the traemand guys were rude, whatever--maybe they were, maybe they weren't; we didn't ask for an apology or for their boss to scold them. it was just that later when the super legitimately pointed out two more mistakes that we hadn't found yet (our super used to be a general contractor and so noticed the crooked doors immediately), and we added them to our list of things we wanted fixed, the Traemand guy--who was not one of the workers in our apartment when the alleged rudeness transpired--was snarky with us. i mean, should we have just lived with the two crooked doors, rather than add them to the list? after the crapload of mistakes they made and their lateness, we call them on an additional two mistakes and they get salty with *us*? please. no matter who was or wasn't rude to anyone, after their track record, they would have done well to fix what they goofed without sarcastic comments, period.
update: the more we live with the new installation, the more we notice how superior it was to the first installation. they did, at least, do a good job of correcting the flaws. everything is still pretty civil, i think, although i'm worried that after a few emails, i haven't heard back from them about the countertop issue. will call today.
and, also--since i haven't said it and the above came out more self-riteous than i meant (sorry about that--high times here at the lh household! everyone's in high dudgeon!):
thanks, everybody.
for the advice, and also for making me feel like sharing the experience matters. i don't feel nearly so helpless as i did at the beginning.
Re: Crooked doors.
As you know, Ikea doors -- and all "European style cabinets" I'm told -- have gaps and can look crooked. As I'm sure you know, since there's no "frame" to hide the gaps between the doors, Ikea cabinets can look "gap-py."
I asked the contractor to hang the doors as carefully as possible. Then I've done some tweaks of my own. In a few spots, you can still see a sliver of space between my cabinet doors.
I pretend I can't see the gap ad remind myself about how much moeny I saved by not going with custom cabinets.
Are you noticing gaps as well?
All I know is that my friend's contractor installed Ikea cabinets and there are NO gaps at all. In fact, they look so high end (she combined them with high-end everything else, including Viking appliances) that people are absolutely shocked to learn they are Ikea. I suspect the skill of the installer is crucial.
no gaps so far--not now that the filler strips have been re-installed--but the cabinets are only a few weeks old . . . some might appear as things settle, maybe, but we're good for now.
except for the narrow choice of non-vomit inducing door styles/colors, i really like the ikea cabinets. i was surprised by their high rating in consumer reports, and the action on the drawers is better than my parents' brand new high-end cabinets--and: the drawers go all the way out, so that you can use even the space deep inside at the end of the drawer, where the carrot peeler always seems to fall.
Yes, I love how the drawers come all the way out. And, rather than doing alot of under-counter cabinets, I got big drawers. The big Ikea drawers are awesome for storing pots. Even my spice rack now has a drawer.
My cabinets are gappy. I think I can adjust them once the rest of the kitchen construction project is over.
Yesterday the contractor installed the diswasher -- hurray -- and he attached more hardware to the doors, but the hardware went on crooked. To fix that, it's back to Ikea for new drawers and another try. Ugh.
LH and I both better find better help for our next renno projects!
i do love those big drawers. we would have gotten almost nothing else, except we have an odd, tiny pullman kitchen and couldn't choose very many cabinets over 12" wide, and the deep drawer cabinets only come in wider sizes.
the other big winner was the pull-out pantry, which comes as small as 12". i wish you could adjust the heights of the pullouts inside it, but even without that, it is by far the most useful storage space in the kitchen.
traemand update: things have gone well lately; they've been returning calls promptly and checking in to make sure they're doing all they can. they have a new countertop on order from ikea and will call us when it's arrived to come install (estimated time: two weeks). if they hadn't been so hard-headed about making even a minimal price adjustment in compensation for the drastic inconvenience, i would say they've made entirely good.
GUIDO --
I would very much appreciate getting some names off your list of women/cool tradespeople. I am in brooklyn working on my co op. Plasterers a plus.
Thanks so much.
PS, how's the Conserv search going? Summit is the way to go, according to the store reps, due to equator being a west coast supplying firm and shoddy on service on this side. Summit backs it's appliances with better service.
-- Olga
Olgaa68@yahoo.com
just a note to say that after quite a few more angry phone calls, the traemand guys finally made good yesterday. our replacement countertop was beautifully installed--but considering this work began in mid-october, the time frame is laughable. we got the work done, but i still feel burned. this job was estimated at two to three days, and it took two and a half months.
new yorkers, beware.
Can i ask you if you are in the New York area?
Because i'm in New York City and i was 'suppose' to you their service for my ikea cabinets (kitchen)
What i think sucks right now is that Traemand wants $55 to give me "customized (the job site printed on them) insurance papers" for my coop. On top of assembling/installation fees ( $120 per wall cabinet/$150 per base cabinet) they have the balls to tack on $55 to fill out forms correctly. Fucking scam. But its a shame I already went into "contract" with them before I read this. I assume they must have some decent installers since I've heard as much. Please don't give me the boneheads that did LH's job.
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