Hello AT,
I have a four-year-old Frigidaire 15,000 BTU window A/C. Shortly after I had it installed (by technicians from my place of purchase on the UWS) in 2002, my neighbor from two floors down saw me on the street and pulled me aside.
"Caren," she said, in sort of a dramatic stage whisper. "There's something wrong with your air conditioner." I looked at her, surprised. "It drips!" she said.
I looked at her to see if she was kidding. She wasn't. "If you look at the bottom of it, there's a hole, and there's water coming out of the hole! It's dripping onto my air conditioner!".... [more below]
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My feeling at that moment was one of pity, not because my neighbor's A/C was being hit with condensate from my unit, but because she genuinely didn't seem to understand that air conditioners rely on processes of compression and condensation in order to work. I explained to her that the hole was there by design, and that (at least to my knowledge) all window A/C units drip. It was as if she simply didn't hear me. To this day, she and her husband maintain that my air conditioner is "broken" and that it is "leaking" onto theirs.
After the initial complaint, I dutifully called the appliance store where I purchased the unit and explained the "problem." They laughed and assured me that, yes, my conditioner was supposed to drip. They added that because it was such a powerful unit, it was apt to drip quite a lot. I repeated my question to those in my circle of friends who were likely to have an informed opinion on the matter: architects, contractors, engineers. They all told me the same thing. "It's normal. Your neighbor needs to get real."
The following year, after another dramatic encounter on the street where my neighbor informed me that my air conditioner was "broken," I went out and purchased a large Rubbermaid® pitched drainboard for her. I took it down to her apartment and told her that I thought I had found the solution. "All you have to do is secure this to your unit, and water from my A/C will be deflected from yours." She thanked me; I really thought that we had reached the end of this particular little drama. And indeed I didn't hear from her from the rest of the summer. The next summer I ran into her on the elevator and asked her how the drainboard was working out. "Oh, it blew off," she said dismissively. I considered buying her a new one and helping her and her husband secure it to their A/C, but then thought better of it. After all, virtually everyone I knew whose air conditioners were hit by condensate from above simply put foam rubber (or even old towels) on the top of their units and called it a day. My neighbors were adults, I thought to myself; they could come up with a solution. I had done my best, and now it was up to them.
This summer, the drama has reached a new level of intensity. One day my neighbor rang my doorbell. "The air conditioner repairmen just left," she said. She informed me that their five-year-old A/C had to be replaced, because the "leakage" from my unit had caused theirs to rust. I'm sincerely sorry that they have to replace their air conditioner, but something about their story just doesn't ring true for me. For one thing, they leave their unit out all year round, where it is exposed to the elements. Furthermore, the rains we've gotten this season put more moisture in and around their A/C than the condensate from mine ever has.
So I did some research, and hit upon what I thought was the perfect solution: the Stop-Drop (http://stop-drop.com/). From the Stop-Drop website:
This patent pending product is comprised of a 24" square piece of 3/4" foam bonded to a 24" square piece of .10 mil magnetic sheeting which adheres to the top of a window mounted air conditioner, or any other metallic surface. no more towels, cardboard or carpet remnants tied around the air conditioner, no more foam siliconed to the top never again to be removed.
Its features include ease of application and removal and safety. "STOP DROP" has an HF-1 rating from underwriters laboratories, which means that it is flame retardant and more importantly, self extinguishing. It exceeds NYC building code requirements. It fits most air conditioners and is cut easily with a scissors. Unlike jerry rigged solutions, "STOP DROP" is not a breeding ground for bacteria and larvae, and it does not flop around in the wind.
"This is it!" I thought, excited. My first impulse was to rush over to Gracious Home and get one for them. But then I thought better of it. "They're adults," I said to myself; "they need to be a little more proactive about this; I'll print out the information for them and they can go out and get a Stop-Drop themselves." So I printed out the info and pinned it up on the lobby bulletin board for everyone to see; I thought that others might find the information useful, too.
A few days after that, my neighbor came up to my apartment with a little section of hose and the number of a local handyman. She suggested that I attach the hose to my A/C to divert the drip. I had already thought about doing something like that, but there are a couple of reasons why I don't like that solution: (1) My unit is securely bolted into the window and attached to a horizontal mounting rail to comply with Local Law 11, and the process of dismounting it and attaching the hose would be rather involved and time-consuming (and I estimate would cost me close to $200 for labor); (2) It strikes me as a clumsy workaround: the water will simply drip somewhere else, and cause problems somewhere else.
So I went over to Gracious Home, purchased a Stop-Drop for my neighbors, and left it outside their door with a note saying that I would be happy to help them install it. In response, I got a surprisingly angry note from them:
YOU WOULD THINK, BY YOUR LETTER, THAT IT WAS OUR A/C LEAKING.
OUR FIVE YEAR OLD AIR CONDITIONER HAS TO BE JUNKED BECAUSE IT IS COMPLETELY RUSTED INSIDE. TWO PROFESSIONAL A/C REPAIRMEN STATED THIS TO US 2 WEEKS AGO.
HOWEVER, WE WILL USE YOUR STOP-DROP PAD AS WE CAN SEE YOU ARE REFUSING TO FIX THE PROBLEM (WE WILL JERRY RIG OUR A/C EVEN THOUGH IT IS YOUR A/C CAUSING THE PROBLEM).
I ASSURE YOU IF IT WAS OUR A/C LEAKING ON OUR NEIGHBORS, WE WOULD GET IT FIXED NOT TRANSFER THE PROBLEM TO OUR NEIGHBOR.
Yes, the note was in all caps. I found it upsetting, because I honestly feel that I have made a good-faith effort to find solutions to this. So I brought it to the attention of the co-op board. Because I myself am on the board, however, the other members felt that it would be a conflict of interest for the board to get involved, and suggested that the matter be forwarded to the management company for mediation. In an email to me, our managing agent said that she thought I should: (A) attach the hose OR get my A/C serviced, and (B) apologize to my neighbors for my unit's "leakage" into theirs.
I feel as though I've landed in the twilight zone. On one side, we have basic laws of physics/thermodynamics, and an air conditioner that is functioning properly. On the other side, we have people people who have not maintained their air conditioner, have taken no measures to protect it from the elements, and who are now furious about things like compression, condensation and gravity.
Any advice? I thought that I would ask you and your readers to weigh in on this, because undoubtedly many New Yorkers have found themselves in similar circumstances, on both sides.
Thanks much,
Caren
Dear Caren,
Thanks for your very thoughtful and well worded question to which we are sure there will be many responses.
In our opinion, it does seem as if you have difficult neighbors, but we can understand their frustration in the shared space outside your windows. We think that diverting the dripping ultimately makes more sense for everyone as it simply gets the water out of the line of the windows. We do understand, however, that this is a bigger job for you. The Stop Drop is also a nice solution and it was great of you to buy one for your neighbor.
It really all comes down to standards of comfort. If you were being dripped on, what would you do and what would you reasonably expect your upstairs neighbor to do?
If it were us and the Stop Drop stopped the noise and didn't allow water to collect, then we'd be happy if our neighbor did that for us. If the Stop Drop allowed water to collect and rust to set in, then we'd be happier if our neighbor diverted their drip entirely. We'd probably work with them to do it however.
There also seems to be a missing policy in your building concerning this. This is really a good role for the building's managment to take over, so that neighbors don't feud and common, shared problems like this get solved in a timely fashion. If your building had a solution and a policy, we would simply do whatever they said and be done with it.
Anyone else??
When I moved into my building I was awakened by the loud noise of water pinging off my air conditioner. It was like a drum. Then my upstairs neighboor's AC began to drip on mine, sounding just as bad. I simply bought a pad of rubber and slapped doublesided tape on it. This was 4 years ago, I've hear nary a ping since.
Your neighbors, bluntly, are idiots. They should get the pad you suggested, or figure out one of their own. No well built AC will rust because of being dripped on. They have to survive the summer rains don't they?
I say do nothing. Ask your neighbors which is more likely, that the small amount of water from your AC caused the rusting, or the large amounts of water their AC was subject to due to rain.
Do pay a cent to modify your absolutely normal AC. What happens when that little hose comes loose and the drips start again? Do you pay more? Forget it.
Caren's neighbors are bullies. They obviously complained to the mgmt company, who sided in their favor, knowing that they'd never hear the end of it otherwise - and knowing that Caren, being too nice, wouldn't realize that she should have absolutely no obligation in this situation! A/C units drip, for Pete's sake. I would never dream of asking a neighbor to "fix" their unit or to BUY me something to make my life more comfortable! As Caren said, foam rubber or a towel, people. Sheesh.
"It was as if she simply didn't hear me."
Gee, that never happens in New York. New Yorkers are such good listeners and are always open to other opinions. (eyes rolling)...They are always aware that there are many sides to a situation and that their opinion is not fact and that they are not the World's Greatest Expert on the subject at hand.
I feel for you. Get an intermediary, there is no solution that you can offer that will ever satisfy these neighbors. Get an intermediary that they give credence to (the Super [then again maybe not], another neighbor in the building who is well-liked and respected would be good) that can explain the scenario to them. Otherwise, it'll be tough sledding.
Or you can wait 24 hours, print out this web page with Maxwell's response as well as all the other comments from APT'ers, put it in an envelope and give it to them. They might get more upset, but it may set their expectations appropriately.
I think Maxwell hit it on the head - while the neighbors seem abit annoying, continuing to find "drip solutions" for your neighbor's probably is not the best tactic - diverting the drip from your aircon is. A simple piece of tubing connected to the output is how I remedied the situation on my A/C from dripping on my downstairs neighbor's awning. Since my A/C is 5,000 BTU and yours is 15,000, I would imagine it will be abit more cumbersome for you than me.
Your neighbors ARE being ridiculous. That's what Air Conditioners do! Just reading your email made ME start to feel annoyed and upset, so I can only imagine how you're feeling. I mean, surely, in your building, there are other similar situations where the downstairs neighbors have just made adjustments, realizing that it's a fact of life, having window a/c units and living below someone. In my opinion, you've been more than accommodating, buying them a stop drip and all that. Does their A/C drip? I'm sure it does. If it comes to the point where you have to install a tube, I'd demand they do too.
Your neighbors are ignorant and bullies, if not deliberately malicious. For your own peace of mind bite the bullet and use the hose to divert the water draining from your A/C, but you should also send a strongly worded explanation to your management company emphasizing that they are incorrect and you are being harassed even though you have tried to resolve this unpleasant situation to the best of your ability.
They sound like the kind of neighbors who'll probably find something else to complain about next.
I totally sympathize with your predicament as I had a similar complaint from outraged and unreasonable neighbors (though they didn't have the guts to come to me on their own and used the building's gossip mill to get the message to me), luckily it was solved with a an old towel and I never heard about it again. It really sucks when you have to deal with unreasonable people who believe that the world is either out to get them or owes them a living. However, there is a lesson in this, since there are reasonable solutions to the issue and since this is undoubtedly making your life uncomfortable and difficult, it might be time to be the bigger person and just suck it up and have the hose attached. I totally agree with you that this is a pain, but you can do it and then you can adopt a certain smugness about being more reasonable and more mature than these neighbors who do not seem to understand how the world works. I can say this because I have had to swallow my pride (and my need to be right) in a different situation that had to do with noise, it was worth it to be more mature and, somehow, I won the battle because of it. I wish you luck and I hope you find the solution that works best for you, I mean beyond the mechanical solution.
I say you begin dumping your garbage and dirty laundry out your window onto their Air Conditioner. In all seriousness, I don't think you should proceed with anything more than just giving them the stop-drop. You did more than anyone could have expected.
I say go ahead and divert your drippage.
Neighbors who are obvious idiots cannot and will not be reasoned with and 'tis folly to keep trying to make them see things your way. Seriously.
Because the more this escalates, the weirder and weirder things will be for you on the elevator, and a peaceful home is just entirely too precious for that. Being "right" just is not always worth the human cost.
Write them a letter:
BECAUSE OUR MGMT COMPANY ASKED ME TO DIVERT THE DRIPPAGE FROM MY AC, I WILL DO SO. HOWEVER, I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THEIR DECISION SINCE YOUR UNIT IS CLEARLY THE VICTIM OF POOR MAINTENANCE ON YOUR PART.
PLEASE KNOW THAT I DID MY BEST TO BE ACCOMODATING TO ALL YOUR IRRATIONAL COMPLAINTS REGARDING THIS MATTER. IN THE FUTURE, THIS WILL NOT BE THE CASE.
Being in an apt that gets dripped on all the time, I feel their frustration, but they are being completely ridiculous. You have gone out of your way to be helpful, but they seem beyond reason. I think diverting the drip is the best way to go. They will not stop complaining until you do so, but I think you should make clear that their a/c did not rust from your unit, but rather the rain and snow.
What's Local Law 11? Seriously. Thanks.
eff your neighbors. they are clearly irrational idiots, and i think we all know you can't deal with irrational people.
and since you are the calm and clear-headed one in this situation, it would be in your best interest to reach the management company about this issue first.
What a sucky situation. I don't know how you could possibly convey to them that you didn't destroy they're a/c. They've made up their minds and will not listen to you.
Yeah, I'd divert the drip, then send them a letter with copies of all the receipts you've racked up on their behalf. Then I'd write something like:
OMG YOU GUYS TOTALLY PWNED ME!!!!11!!!
I think you're just going to have to suck it up, unless you're the kind of person who likes to drag out apartment clash dramas, which I don't think you are.
Sorry.
Sorry but I couldn't read your whole question since I tend to suffer with internet ADD sometimes, but as far as I can gather your A/C is doing what it suppose to do which is drip on the outside. Unless I missed something but I don't understand why they would complain..geesh they need to find something better to do with their time.
I guess I'm fortunate that my downstairs neighbor, so far didn't make a complaint yet about my a/c unit dripping down his window.
Sorry,but I couldn't read your whole question since I tend to suffer with internet ADD sometimes, but as far as I can gather your A/C is doing what it suppose to do which is drip on the outside. Unless I missed something but I don't understand why they would complain..geesh they need to find something better to do with their time.
I guess I'm fortunate that my downstairs neighbor, so far didn't make a complaint yet about my a/c unit dripping down his window.
I second Maxwell. Attaching tubing to the drip hole is standard and most ACs come with a little plug thingy that fits in the hole in order to attach a hose to it. The tube should basically divert the drip away to a less problematic area and I don't think it's unreasonable in this type of situation to expect upstairs neighbours to install a hose. That said, your neighbours do sound very difficult and a bit out of touch if they think dripping is not a normal AC behaviour or if they truly believe the dripping caused the problem with their AC. The situation seems to have gotten far more acrimonious than it warrants.
ps. While I think you purchasing an item to solve the drip problem for them was considerate and sounds as if it was done with good intentions, I do see your neighbours point that it is YOUR air conditioner that is dripping.
Having a building policy would solve this so much more simply.
If the shoe (drip) were on the other foot (your AC unit), the request to get it fixed might not seem so far-fetched, petty or annoying.
Yes, they are going to dramatic heights.
But they don't call it "drip water torture" for nothing.
I say install the hose next time you take you unit out for servicing, replacement, or seasonal storage.
And deflecting the water is better for your unit, btw, too...
Why let this escalate? You are right, but they obviously are not going to see it that way. They think you wrecked their ac, and no amount of persuasion will convince them otherwise.
I would just spring for the tube and the labor in the cause of neighborliness. But that's me.
I do think some of the proposals you came up with, while well-intentioned, could be perceived as ludicrous by the neighbors.
It's like you have an eternally barking dog. Neighbors complain. You buy them ear plugs or pirnt out the wb page for Bose Noise Cancellation headphones. Um...
I have to disagree with you P(too). She provided them a solution that would completely solve the problem (it has from my own experience). Not only would it remove all effects of dripping water from her AC (preventing water pooling, noise), it would eliminate those same effects from rain as well.
Her neighbors are just being stubborn.
As po'ed as you are, stay nice, polite and professional, as so far you have shown much more class than they have. I do agree that a drip hose should be installed BUT at their expense, not yours. Tell them that you are willing to reach a compromise - they can hire someone to install a drip hose to their liking by hiring and paying the professional to do it. You'll pay for the materials but they need to pay for the handyman. Good luck.
Telling THEM they have to pay for your drip hose will only further escalate this.
I say, if you aren't going to do anything, steer clear of them and don't give them any opportunity to bitch at you.
While my first inclination is one of annoyance, escalation is only going to be painful and they've made it clear that they're along for the ride.
Install the tube, but make yourself (or at least me ;) ) feel better by putting some fresh dog poop under their door mat.
:) :)
ITA with Patrick. They already feel as though they had to buy a new air conditioner because of you (even if that's not really the case), so saying "Here! You can now pay $200 to fix this problem" is going to make them really, really mad.
If you aren't going to do anything (and at this point, unless $200 is going to put you in the poorhouse, I think you should install the hose), just stay away from them.
Sorry, I'm in total disagreement with all of you- If the drip is coming from your air conditioner, it is your problem. Therefore, you should fix it at your airconditioner, not theirs.
What surprises me most is that there is a product, that every handyman, super, appliance and/or hardware store is likely aware of. It is called by one of several names- condensation spout, drip diverter, etc. It is made to connect to an air-conditioner's condensation drip hole. Yes, there is a hole in one or the other outer corner of your AC unit that is put there for the expressed purpose of dripping out the condensation that gathers on the inside of your AC unit. Most large AC units even come with a condensation spout/drip diverter in the box that you are suppose to attach. Whether out of ignorance or indifference for their lower neighbors, almost nobody ever bothers to attach it.
The problem is yours. The water is coming from your AC. Your should address the problem at YOUR unit, not expect them to accomodate you on their end. The problem comes from your unit. They cost, oh, about $1.
That said, blaming you for the rust inside their AC sounds completely absurd. Their AC develops condensation on the inside too. Their AC should also drip. If their unit does not drip, it is probably because it was not installed without a proper slant to it. An AC unit that is not installed with a slight pitch toward the outside will not drip. Instead, the condensation will build up on the inside as standing water. Guess what this will cause the AC unit to do? It will cause the inside to rust out... that why the unit has a drip hole.
It sounds like you and your neighbor are both just guilty of crimes of ignorance.
We had the same problems in my home. My tenant had installed their ac (3rd Floor) over ours on the second floor. If their ac is directly under yours I definitely suggest the hose. If you allow water to pool on an ac it is a breeding ground for mosquitos and pigeons, who tend to bath in it and drink from it. We purchased a kit from a place in Brooklyn called Pinchek and it was about $15 for the tube and attachment
This is such a classic UWS story (and I say this as a 31 year veteran of the UWS!) -- but you gotta love the part about 2 a/c repair professionals stating the rust is from the drip -- cut me a break! Who hires 2 people to look at a machine that can be replaced for about $250?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? SHEESH!
Bottom line, you can't win with this folks, so get the hose installed. Turn lemons into lemonade and have the unit removed this fall, cleaned and serviced, and reinstalled with the hose. There are services in NYC that will remove and store an ac unit over the winter months, perform the servicing, and re-install each spring. It's great for the machine, you get your view back (or at least some natural light), and you can chalk it up to good karma all around.
Last, avoid your crazy lying neighbors!
I think calling them crazy liars negates *some* of that kharma... ;)
Taking the a/c out and storing it for you sounds kind of like a good idea, except that sometimes in these anti-seasons we seem to have now that global warming has gone full-tilt, there really is no telling when you're going to need an air conditioner in an off-season.
Otherwise, that really does sound tempting.
By tempting, I really mean that it would be wonderful to be able to clean both my living room windows, instead of looking like I had a beige sheer stretch over them both. But my air conditioner is HUGELY heavy, and it's kind some kind of nails sticking up from it which the previous owner probably had put in to discourage birds from lighting there.
Entirely too complicated for me to take away.
The drip is free water (not for you, of course, only for your downstairs neighbors!) I'm on the ground floor at the back & I've planted morning glories right where the water hits. The hotter it gets, the more likely it is that my neighbors will water my morning glories ... this only breaks down on hot weekends when everyone goes out of town.
Local Law 11, BTW, is a law that requires buildings over six stories to have their facades inspected every five or six years or so and requires repairs to be made at that time.
Diana--
Funny you say that about "free water". I've often wondered what would happen to the water supply in a place like Florida if all the AC units-- or even just the hotel ice-making machines in Key West-- had some way to recover the condensation water...
Wow, I'd really like to thank everyone for the comments, on both sides of the equation.
I found chris (nyc)'s argument and patrick (the other one)'s dog/ear plug analogy persuasive, and they helped me to see the other side more clearly.
Maxwell wrote:
If you were being dripped on, what would you do and what would you reasonably expect your upstairs neighbor to do?
Where do I live? I live in New York City. I've chosen density and chance over a certain genteel predictability. New York forces ingenuity and adaptability. So what would I do? I would apply the Stop-Drop. (Especially if someone else went to Gracious Home and bought one for me.) It's an elegant solution to a pervasive "problem." Plus, the Stop-Drop is slightly pitched, so any water hitting their unit would indeed be diverted. And the Stop-Drop has the added benefit of protecting my neighbors' unit from other sources of moisture (rain, snow).
Thanks again for the feedback. This is great.
Oh, by the way, on Local Law 11: http://locallaw11.com/
to quote Oprah...do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?
yes, all AC units drip. They are rained on. They should be brought indoors during the winter. Everyone knows these things with the exception of your downstairs neighbors. But buying and installing the drip diverter buys you peace and neighborly goodwill.
"But buying and installing the drip diverter buys you peace and neighborly goodwill."
Does it really? To me it seems like a sloppy workaround. Also, it sends the message to these neighbors that they can simply say "Jump!" and I will say: "How high?" And they will continue to make more demands. Why reward such behavior?
These are not bad or malicious people. But they have been, in my opinion, extremely passive around this issue. And I believe that their representation of it has been less than honest.
Mediation in cases like this needs to be impartial and informed by the law, not by feelings and emotions. The email I got from the managing agent wasn't part of any formal mediation process. The board president told me that he thought that I should pursue mediation through the management company. So the next logical step would have been for me to approach the managing agent. Before I could do that, however, the board president essentially took it upon himself to do that for me, by copying the managing agent on his email response to me. Furthermore, in his response, he stated what *he* would do to resolve the situation, thereby prejudicing the managing agent's view of the case. So I feel as though the mediation process was more or less vitiated.
Since I am not in violation of any laws, policies, or ordinances, I have decided not to take any further action for now and eventually replace my window unit with a portable, dual-hose portable air conditioner.
Thanks again, everyone.
If their unit stays out year round, the chances are slim that your unit is wholly responsible for their problems.
I would refuse unless it's in your lease and print out a copy of HowStuffWorks' explanation of how air conditioners work. Unless the maintenance is going to do this FOR you, it is way too much for them to ask.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/ac.htm
i agree with those who say it's caren's responsibility to correct thr problem. it's your air conditioner disturbing the neighbors. just wondering what is the life span of a window air conditioner left installed year round? i haven't had one last more than 3 years.
Okay... A lot of comments. Here's my opinion. Do no more than get on letterhead from the company which installed your A/C that states that it is normal for condensate to drip. If they can put any further validation that your condensate is in no way responsible for your idiot neighbors rust issues. It seems to me like the mngmnt sided with the person that had "professionals" to back up their Crap-Ass story. Get repudiation in the form of written word from an authoritative source (though I would recommend Maxwell, I think an A/C professional would be better).
Being a stubborn pain in the ass I wouldn't alter my A/C, get an authoritative letter, and let the mngmnt try to sort out which "Professional" to side with.
It's scary that you mention you are on the board! In all likelyhood, you have an obligation under the proprietary lease to maintain anything in/out of your windows, as well as an obligation to prevent/stop any water dripping from your window a/c unit. The board/managment can enforce that by requiring you to change the course of teh water dripping (whether by attaching a hose or a metal channel to divert the wtare away from other a/c's etc).
Having had a neighbor (more than once actually) that had a dripping AC, and having also been the neighbor with the dripping AC, once my neighbor added a drip diverter, and when I was the dripper, I simply moved my AC unit to the left side of my window, while my neighbor pushed his to the right in the window below so my drip then missed his AC. With another prior neighbor we also did something similar.
Most of the annoyance of a drippy AC unit above has to do with the sound. It's like Chinese water torture to have to listen to the "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping", "ping, ping-ping"... of the neighbor's drip hitting the metal body of the AC unit for hours on end.
As I reach into the recesses of my memory, I recall I've used the old towel trick before too and while it sometimes works, the pitch of the AC unit can cause it to slide off over time, and I've also witnessed that it will encourage pigeons to nest on the towel (which can somehow simultaneously be both cute, and annoying).
Caren wrote:
> it sends the message to these neighbors that
> they can simply say "Jump!" and I will say: "How high?"
> These are not bad or malicious people...
> ...board president stated what *he* would do
> to resolve the situation...
> Since I am not in violation of any laws,
> policies, or ordinances, I have decided
> not to take any further action...
Has it ever ocurred to you that you might be a jack-ass?
Your AC unit is unquestionably the one with the problem. That is not even in dispute. You agree they are nice people, but refuse to administer a solution simply because nobody tells you what to do.
patrick wrote:
> just wondering what is the life span of a window
> air conditioner left installed year round? i haven't
> had one last more than 3 years.
I have 2 Panasonic AC window units. In my prior home I also had 2 Panasonic AC window units. I had the two prior for about 5 years or more. They were both in fine running order when we sold them with the apartment. The Panasonics have always performed well, are Energy Star compliant, and are also the quietest AC units I've ever heard. I cannot recommend them highly enough.
The trick to a long lasting AC unit is that you have to care for them.
If not once a year, then at least evey other year you must slide them out of their case and clean them out with a vacuum cleaner, and a wet rag. This is easy to do with most units, including Panasonic, because you can leave the case (outer metal box) in the window and just slide out the inards by removing two or three screws on the bottom edge. Many units even have some kind of wheels on the *inside* to facilitate sliding the machine right out of the case easily.
In addition to that, depending on whether you have a cleanable filter or one that must be replaced, clean/replace it once at the beginning of the spring/summer and once every 30 to 45 days all summer long. The Panasonic units have a two stage filter. It is a woven plastic filter that can either be rinsed in the sink or, my preference, cleaned with a vacuum cleaner. Then there is a charcoal filter that clips on top of that filter that has to be replaced. It takes any ole generic charcoal filter, cut to size.
Clean out the inside of the unit once every year or two, and clean/replace the filters regularly and a good AC unit should last a very long time.
I always leave my AC units in the window all winter. I usually put plastic over them on the inside to protect against draft and heat loss. I've never bothered to protect them on the outside, and I've never known it to cause a problem.
Caren, I was on your side until I read through the posts (insomnia) and your final rationalization that you don't owe them even a kind gesture because they've been extremely passive about everything. Of course, they've been passive--it's not their problem--they're just the recipients of your drip. i agree at first they were being passive aggressive (which in some circles is the same as being polite), but they did buy the hose attachment and hand it to you--i'd say that was pretty direct. it would have helped if you'd talked to them first about your solution to the problem rather than just leave it at the door with a note. speaking of being passive, you left a printout on the BULLETIN BOARD for them to figure it out! --you're a resourceful, proactive person who wouldn't care about a petty drip, but you can't expect them to be just like you. some people would be driven crazy by the sound --think edgar allen poe--or even just the thought of towel/foam rubber etc. those are viable solutions but now, they're probably upset just on principle.
--i don't think you were the cause of their A/C rusting but they never asked you to replace their A/C. i agree with chris that they're not asking for too much, and i'm not sure--maybe other people would have feedback on this--but maybe it wouldn't be quite $200 for the labor. i know you don't have a super, but maybe you could get a handy friend to help.
Seriously. You can't install a rubber hose to divert the water dripping? It's not that hard.
Gotta agree witht the surprised ppl at the end.
I too was on your side at first Caren but then I realized that this is a problem that can only get worse unless someone does take the higher road and accomodate the other.
I thought that what P2 said was right on (the part about your suggestions and purchases to/for your neighbours having the potential for coming across as antagonistic and ducking the issue) and was surprised when you said that you had taken what he had said seriously and then ignored it.
I also know how a/c units work and have even described their workings on this very site previously so I understand that your a/c is not defective. Hoever, the drain hole and hose for this type of a/c is made available for a reason and I would get these attached if I were you. Unless you enjoy this kind of on going conflict of course. Some ppl, like eric, obviously do. Don't be that person.
BTW, panasonic units, which I have recommended here in the past, do not have a drain hole because thy are designed slightly differently so that the condensate is recycled. This does lead to a failty loud sloshing sound that you don't get in other units but the benefits - which I have articulated before- more than outweigh this.
Yes, A/C units drip. BUT, as time goes on, they drip more and more because water gets caught in the bottom of the unit.
Aside from getting the neighbors the thingy from Gracious Home, it's a good idea to get the water out of the bottom of your own A/C so as to extend its life.
Here's how:
1) Detach the front of the A/C.
2) Pull out the A/C unit (without the housing) into your apartment. Clean thoroughly with vacuum, pump out the water (we use one of those thingies for ear cleaning) and wipe it down very well.
3) Do the same with your A/C housing, which is still hanging in the window.
4) Put everything back together.
------------
This is good for you and your neighbors!
Isn't their air-conditioner "leaking" as well? Have you looked outside to see on what their air-conditioner is leaking?
Could it also be that they can hear the drip, drip of your air-conditioner and that is what is driving them nuts?
It seems to me that 1) adding a tube to direct the drip is the easiest solution and 2) Don't be surprised if your neighbors find something new about which to complain.
Remember the NYC credo: never look a nut in the eye.
What a NYC story..... Caren has already "jumped" quite a bit to satisfy her neighbors' concerns.... Since she is on the co-op board I hope she makes a move to propose some standards in regards to an issue like this others may encounter, along with receipts for the purchases, etc.,she made in order to attempt to resolve it herself.
That would be a pitcher of lemonade for everyone -
Caren... you can tell your neighbor you'll turn the air conditoner around so the drip will land on your living room floor... I hope you reconsider and be the bigger person by diverting the drip. There's bigger things to worry about.
Hey, I just passed my Mechanical & Electrical Exam, if you'd like, I can fax/send you the pages that describe how an air conditioner works - not that they would try to understand it...
I'm actually on the recieving end of the drip. The sound is very much annoying. But, more annoying is that as it drips onto my AC, it splatters onto my window. And, when it dries, it just looks like a mess. I actually am just in the process of moving in, so I decided to just install my AC on the opposite window. But, I agree with the post that said that its not worth the trouble and the awkward elevator rides to start a fight over a small issue. So, I'd go with installing the tube. But, make sure it doesn't cause any other sort of damage to your building.
Wow, lots of interesting responses; thanks, everyone.
jamie pup wrote:
"I thought that what P2 said was right on (the part about your suggestions and purchases to/for your neighbours having the potential for coming across as antagonistic and ducking the issue) and was surprised when you said that you had taken what he had said seriously and then ignored it."
I didn't ignore it. It helped me to see my neighbors' point of view more clearly. I'm not convinced that he's right; I'm not convinced that he's wrong; I'm thinking about it.
jamie pup wrote:
"BTW, panasonic units, which I have recommended here in the past, do not have a drain hole because thy are designed slightly differently so that the condensate is recycled. This does lead to a fairly loud sloshing sound that you don't get in other units but the benefits - which I have articulated before- more than outweigh this."
Wow. Good to know. I looked unsuccessfully for your comments on Panasonic elsewhere on the site; not sure why I couldn't find them (I did a search on "panasonic"). I don't mind about a sloshing sound and with luck it wouldn't be loud enough to pose a nuisance to others. I went to Panasonic's site, and in their descriptions of their A/C units, nothing is mentioned about the condensate being recycled. I know that Amcor makes a portable air conditioner that recycles the condensate, which is one of the reasons I've been considering purchasing one as a possible way of resolving this problem. But from everything that I've read, PACs just don't do the job the way window A/Cs do. So I'll continue to try to find out about the Panasonic – that could be the way to go.
Laura wrote:
"Isn't their air-conditioner "leaking" as well?"
Yes. Their unit drips onto the A/C of a woman in her nineties who, to my knowledge, has never complained about it.
jules wrote:
"your final rationalization that you don't owe them even a kind gesture"
I honestly believe that I've made many kind gestures toward these people.
chris (nyc) wrote:
"The trick to a long lasting AC unit is that you have to care for them."
I take care to maintain my A/C to keep it in good working order. I clean the plastic woven filter once a week and do other maintenance on a regular basis.
NYC Resident wrote:
"In all likelyhood, you have an obligation under the proprietary lease to maintain anything in/out of your windows, as well as an obligation to prevent/stop any water dripping from your window a/c unit."
Nothing in the proprietary lease/house rules addresses this issue. That was one of the first things I looked into after the initial complaint that my A/C was "broken." There needs to be clarity on the issue. One of the things that I would like to do as a new board member is to develop an unambiguous policy regarding window units that is pragmatic for and amenable to most, if not everyone. If that means attaching a drip diverter to my unit, so be it. I'm just still not convinced that is the most pragmatic course of action.
I've just learned from talking to some friends on a lower floor that the management company requested, last year, that they install a drip diverter because their A/C was dripping onto the awning. They attached the diverter, but found that the solution wasn't precise enough; water continued to drip on the awning. Their solution, ultimately, was to remove their A/C and live without it. The couple in question are both chefs who are rarely home; when they are home, they're sleeping. It's great that they found that they were able to do without their A/C. I wish I could, but I'm on the top floor and it gets intolerably hot up here at times. I do try to use it as little as possible, but sometimes I have no choice but to turn it on.
chris (nyc) wrote:
"Has it ever ocurred to you that you might be a jack-ass?"
It hadn't, but I'm looking into it. Thanks for the tip.
My goal here is to find a solution that is easiest and most pragmatic for all concerned. I'm off to try to find more info about the Panasonic units, which, if they recycle the condensate, sound ideal.
Thanks again.
_________
|Your Unit
|with metal bib on bottom
|
|__..____
____/ 18" Aluminum Roof Flashing bent into
/ a lazy "Z". Attach with self tapping
stainless steel screws and rubber washers on either side of your unit. Think metal bib. This will divert the drip in front on their unit and make you look like the bigger person, which I'm afraid, is not the case now. Your looney neighbors will die soon. Cut them another break.
In a phrase, would you rather be right or be happy?
I suggest, be happy. Be creative. If you can't do the metal work, go to a shoe cobbler, no kidding, those guys are wired in a way that makes them creative problem solvers. Pick one named Stan or Lugi or Pete. Simple is better. Go in and tell him you have a problem he can't fix. Challenge him. All cobblers are extremely proud of doing good work and solving problems.
Good luck
bill
Look at it like this:
What if they had a balcony rather than an AC unit below yours? There is no way they would want your dirty water dripping down on them as they sat out on their balcony - they couldn't exactly put a drip stop or a towel over their heads whilst sitting their balcony now could they. Imagine eating out there on the balcony with water dripping onto your food...
Just because your water is dripping onto something that YOU consider dripable-onto doesn't mean you should allow your water to drip on it.
This is an item that they OWN - it is not for you to be doing ANYTHING to it
Install the hose or move your AC unit - this is your problem not theirs
Well, I've decided to replace my A/C with one that recycles the condensate – either a portable unit or, perhaps, a Panasonic window unit. My unit is four years old; might as well get a new one that has a better EER rating and doesn't annoy anyone else.
But I'm curious: since virtually all window units (except, apparently, for the Panasonics) drip, why don't they all come with a diverter already attached? And why, walking around the city, don't I see drip diverters? I don't see any. I see lots of pools of water on the sidewalk from air conditioners, I get dripped on all the time, I see lots of air conditioners with foam rubber on the top, and I hear lots and lots of "ping ping ping."
Caren,
I've been using PANASONIC A/C and this is what happened. Because it "sort of" recycle condensate water, my A/C motor stopped in the middle of the night because the water was frozen inside of the unit! This was when the unit was placed in the south-east side of window and since I moved it to north side window, it hasn't happen anymore. But the motor is not doing well...;(
Also, I think PANASONIC no longer sells cheap window type; they only sells uber-quiet two units(outside unit will be connected with inside unit via some kind of pipe)which costs $$$.
Living in Greenpoint, Brooklyn the sight of plastic funnels taped to ACs with plastic tubing attached and running down the building to the sidewalk is extremely common. After installing my AC unit to the 2nd floor window I was told by my landlord that this was necessary as to not damage the bricks on the building. After living in Manhattan for 10 years and never having heard of this I was astonished how commonplace it was in the burrough. The funnel and tubing (available at any hardware store) total about $4. Well worth it to avoid hassle.
I stumbled across your blog while I was doing some online research. Of course it's normal for an a/c unit to drip. It's amazing the stupid things that neighbors will complain about. Why don't these people get lives?
Caren, without addressing the main issue which has been quite well addressed by others, two points:
Do not consider a free-standing 2-hose a/c, especially if you really need 15kbtu (do you really? that's huge). These units, regardless of advertised efficacy, are very inefficient because they force some inside (cooled) air out for cooling the condensor. Especially large ones. And they're much noisier because the entire unit is inside.
2- There ain't not such animal as a condensate-recycling a/c if you mean it does so entirely and does never drips. ALL modern a/cs have a pan under the outer fan which splashes some or most of the condensate over the condensor, which also improves efficiency. But eventually, the pan will fill and overflow, as designed, and drip.
Caren, cmu is right on both points.
There is a place for free-standing A/C, but it is where the other solutions don't work, they are always much less efficient. Energy efficient A/C's will drip much less, but they will always drip if it is hot or humid enough. Some, like the free-standing unit require you to remove a tray of water and dump it down a drain yourself.
The best solution is to divert the drip. This should not be very difficult with a big window A/C, these are built so that the A/C is completely seperate from the sleeve. There are probably two screws, one on each side. Unscrew these, then place an old towel on the floor and get another person to help you pull the unit out of it's frame and put it on the towel. Now you have access to the inside of the frame and you can fasten the tube to the frame, I'm assuming you've lost the original adapter that came with the unit. Plop the A/C back in the sleve and screew those screews in. Now point the tube so the drip goes somewhere else. A handyman should be able to do this for $50-75, a handy friend for a couple beers and help with the A/C removal & insertion.
Try to get the board to make some rules about this for the future. I think new installs should be required to divert the drip out of the window line, and the dripped on should be required to live with the drip from an old install or pay for a professional reinstall of the A/C dripping on them. But do this after you resolve the issue with your own neighbor. It costs $5 (for the tube) to divert the drip when you initially install the A/C, but it is a PITA once the unit is installed.
Thanks for the additional responses and for cautioning against the freestanding units, which I had my doubts about. Thanks, too, for making installation of the diverter seem more approachable. Honestly, I had never heard phrases like "condensation spout" and "drip diverter" until this thread. I spend my days thinking about things like typefaces and admittedly am very very dumb when it comes to big, unwieldy appliances like air conditioners.
I've decided to go ahead and install the diverter and will push for codification of the issue at our next board meeting.
Why go through all the hassels when you can just buy a StopDrop. I'm amazed at how many people would forgo a nights sleep because they were arguing about who should pay the $24.99 for a StopDrop
I think you are extremely selfish. It is your air conditioner that is dripping, you should be responsible for diverting the water. Do you really live life thinking that your actions don’t affect others? You have a complete disregard for your neighbors (a great example of a selfish New Yorker).
I find it interesting that you harp on the fact that your air conditioner is working properly – that isn’t the problem – it is the dripping that is the problem and yet you pass it off as having crazy neighbors. If you had to listen to a dip every summer for five years you might be crazy yourself; however, you might think that I am saying that you aren’t crazy and someone with your narcissistic attitude should be considered crazy.
I and others agree that you can’t stop your air conditioner from dripping, but that doesn’t’ mean you can’t help your neighbors out by diverting the water. Would you like it if the water was dripping on your air conditioner – actually I really hope someday karma comes back in the form of an extra large air conditioner installed directly above your air conditioner and also one over the entrance of the building so you can really feel the effects of people like you.
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