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Good Questions: Which Design Is Best?

11-14-kitchen.jpg

Hello AT,

My girlfriend and I are having a hard time deciding on a renovation plan for our kitchen and we need expert help. So here we are...

We have a small galley kitchen (7' x 10') that can only fit full depth cabinets on the right side. Beyond trying to improve the look and storage, the primary goal is to squeeze in a dishwasher...

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11-14-kitchen2.jpg

As you will see from the attached appliance layout, we have basically 4 options (2 of which provde some extra 12" deep counter space). We can't seem to agree on what's best? Can you help us, please?

For illustration purposes, I have attached one set of elevations, which shows the left side of the kitchen as well, which is about 18" deep.

Thanks much! Craig

Dear Craig,

A!!!!

Anyone else?


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Comments (82)

Option A is the worst because you will have no place to stand while you are loading dishes from the sink to the d/w. 11 inches of clearance is not enough workable space.

Why the full size stove?

Option D is the best.

posted by Daisy on 2006-11-14 15:48:12

I am absolutely floored by all the "cheesy" comments about corner sinks. It really is true that people will argue about absolutely anything on message boards.

I have a corner sink and I love it ... I like being able to reach in either direction and either a) put something on the stove to the right or b) put something in the dishwasher to the left. And what on earth does lower back pain have to do with anything? My sink is the exact same distance from the edge of the counter as my friends who have straight-line sinks are. There's no extra-special reaching involved.

And the space behind it is not useless at all. I have a great corner rack back there that holds all kinds of things and I can't possibly imagine what you're all doing that it's getting so messy and wet?? I cook 2-3 full meals a day at home (one nice thing about being freelance!) and I completely love the ease of use of my corner sink. I especially love the under cabinet space ... it's so deep under there I have all my cleaning supplies for the whole apartment ... including a huge bucket and a footbath! Also the triangle cabinet above is fabulous ... it's so deep it fits huge platters, Christmas dishes I don't need all year and can pack away and forget about, etc.... 'Cause think about it ... you need more cabinet space than you need floor space in a kitchen so who cares about the diagonal line?

Geez ... this is a dumb argument. But what do I know? I'm clearly a total design hick for enjoying my corner sink ... ;-)

I vote for A.

posted by ridge. on 2006-11-14 16:06:48

I think the reason the corner sink gives them more counter space is not because of the little space in the corner behind the sink, but because the corner sink allows them to have counters under what I assume is a window (on the left-hand side of the pictures above, in pink.) Is that right? If so, while I agree a corner sink can be somewhat annoying because when you open the dishwasher you'll have to kind of squeeze yourself in to a smaller space in front of the sink, I had a setup like this and did not find it impossible. I think the extra counter space might be worth it in a small kitchen. So, I vote for A.

posted by Jenny on 2006-11-14 16:48:47

Agree with Yana, and for the same reasons.

As to lack of countertop surface- you can incorporate roll-out undercounter panel in your 18"D with fold-away C-leg, and use it for prep.

posted by Tat on 2006-11-14 16:09:31

Like everyone else, D.

The only other option I can think of that might help you is to choose a narrower stove/oven. Then you could go with a variation on A so as to have enough space to comfortably load the dishwasher.

posted by Terry on 2006-11-14 20:48:41

D obviously. You want to be standing beside the sink when you load the dishwasher and A requires you to be stuck in the corner while doing that.

posted by Ksenia on 2006-11-14 20:58:11

I have no opinion on the corner sink (a matter of preference I guess) but I would strongly encourage a 24-in range (I have one in my tiny kitchen and it was absolutely the right idea--those 6 inches make a huge difference) and also having the dishwasher next to the sink.

posted by Rai on 2006-11-14 21:21:20

Option A, because most importantly dishwasher should be located next to the sink. Also in this option it looks like you have more counterspace to work with, as well as you have a small landing area next to the fridge for grabbing things out and setting them down. And if you have a concern with the dishwasher being open and the cabinet door under the sink being open at the same time, you could just have a Lazy Susan underneath the cabinet under the sink.

posted by Nia on 2006-11-14 15:45:00

I had a corner sink for a few months before renovation and it was miserable. The layout was like (C), so not only was the sink inconvenient, but if you wash dishes while cooking, your elbows are right by the flames. Same with d: if you wash dishes and cook, there is nowhere to place them, and you will definitely get burnt.

D is the only viable option if you want to rinse/chop/cook and wash some dishes by hand in between. This business about the dishwasher being next to the sink is nonsense. My sink/dishwasher are at the ends of an L with cabinetry and a stove in between. Place the dishwasher wherever you want!

posted by Samantha on 2006-11-14 15:58:26

Wow, great response, thanks team. To answer some of the questions that have come up:

1. We are choosing a 30" range because the 24" options don't offer self cleaning and can be very difficult to cook on. We would rather sacrifice dishwasher space (hand washing still will be available) than cooking space.

2. Our designer did advise us to keep the range away from the fridge so that is does not heat up, causing excess wear and operating expense.

3. Yes, that is a large window on the far left and the counter, and for that matter the sink cabinet, would run in front of it to some extent.

4. Budget will not allow us to knock out the other wall, as it contains both the electrical service and gas line. Hence our problem.

5. Our inherent issues with B/D are the lack of counter space (though D seems to make the most of this side) even though the other side of the kitchen will offer some. Also, the lack of visual interest in the straight galley.

6. Likewise, the basic issues with A/C are losing the floor space to the corner sink without getting useable cabinet storage in exchange and the limited space between the sink and door (range or dishwasher). Not sure if you can read the measurement, but there would only be about 18 inches at most with a door open, and my butt is bigger than that.

Keep 'em coming. Thanks, Craig.

posted by Craig on 2006-11-14 17:11:06

Gotta throw in my two cents:

I also love corner sinks. Creates a (sort of inverse) triangulating effect in an otherwise long, narrow space. I've always envied people with corner sinks...the energy feels better in their kitchens I think.

So my choice is A.

posted by Tara Emelye on 2006-11-14 16:51:02

Do B and have the refrigerator with a handle on the left.

posted by L on 2006-11-14 15:52:43

I just replaced a mid-counter sink with a corner sink and LOVE it. I'm not tall and it's not bothering my back, so I don't get that. I suspect many of you who are negative may have large kitchens - in a small or apartment-sized kitchen, it's so efficient to use that non-prep space that way. I easily doubled my usable prep space.
I'm also in agreement with having the dishwasher immediately to the right of the sink. Besides the convenience in loading the dishes, you wouldn't want the stove there because if anything's cooking and you're at the sink you have to worry about bumping into something hot.

So, my first choice = A. Distant 2nd = D.

posted by Kerry on 2006-11-14 15:52:59

My vote is also for D - you gotta have the dishwasher next to the sink and be able to stand up at the same time.

posted by Christy on 2006-11-14 15:53:15

A or D. I've actually lived with of these layouts. I loved the flow of D, but the little extra surface space of A was quite handy with A - like in Joel's post --BTW: love the idea of a pull out extra counter if you can design it.

However, I was lucky in that my corner sink wasa large full size one (bigger than what seems to be in your plan) so it never felt cramped. I didn't have water problem either and it worked out that I had a big goregous Willow pattern heirloom platter that was displayed there. Looked great & I never worried about it getting knocked.

Do consider all your needs for a kitchen, Including a smaller smaller stove - I went from a 30" to 24" in a small apt a few years ago and like Rai, it worked perfectly for me. I still appreciate the extra six inches of counter space. The stove has never felt small. Even to visitors from big homes & stoves!

posted by Kate on 2006-11-14 21:54:23

D for sure (imo).

B and C are out because the stove comes between the sink and the dishwasher, which is not good. And A isn't bad because it's cheesy, it's bad because 2 people wouldn't be able to work together in that kitchen without wanting to do bodily harm to each other! The person at the sink would be standing in the same space as the person at the stove. How awkward!

And if you'r worried about counter space, don't forget, you still have counter space across the way. 18" is probably more than you think.

Also, galley kitchens aren't boring! They're sleek and efficient (and not a waste of space).

And just out of curiosity, how on earth would you load the sink with the A option? Would you have to stand on the dishwasher door? Or perhaps sit on the counter?

Yeah, D all the way (imo).

posted by Lil on 2006-11-14 22:58:29

DDDDDDD

posted by Jess on 2006-11-14 20:30:41

A or D whichever you like best. B and C, the dishwasher's too far from the sink and the stove is too close to the sink.

posted by notaperverteither on 2006-11-14 23:08:36

Re: Range next to Fridge.

How much do you cook? I'm a single person with a stove next to the fridge. I cook a lot (for a single person). And usually my eating habits dictate that I cook on the stove every-other day for about 45 minutes. More on the weekends. I use my oven maybe once/week (2x/week in winter?).

I guess, considering my lifestyle, I'd rather have a functional kitchen than make some concessions for 'energy savings' that are probably minimal.

Option D!

posted by JenPDX on 2006-11-14 18:15:46

My vote is for Option A. You have maximum counter space while keeping the dishwasher next to the sink, which IMHO is most convenient.

posted by RP on 2006-11-14 18:34:43

How about D, but flipping the sink and the stove? I have a very similar kitchen, and I think it's good to have the hot range/stove all the way to the left and out of the way when I am doing other things in the kitchen. Also, I don't think you mentioned the width of the fridge, and I suggest considering a 24" wide model, which would give you additional 6 inches of counter space. (I have a Liebbher, and though it's crazy expensive, it's so cheap to run that I think it evens out in the end. It's also very spacious and whisper quiet.)

Lastly, if there's enough wall on the right hand side, it may be possible to slide out the fridge and turn it to make an L shape. It would give you a big square of counter space to the left of the fridge and to the right of the sink in the corner. Not a good working area, but great for placing things as you take them out of the fridge and a temporary resting place for mixing bowls etc. during cooking.

I am no interior designer, but hope this is helpful.

posted by ny on 2006-11-14 19:33:59

Klynnnn:

The sink will be a single bowl with the goal of being able to fit a cookie sheet and have squared off corners (we hate round corners).

I think we found what we want from Blanco:
http://www.blancosink.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_23&products_id=326

posted by Craig on 2006-11-15 10:50:42

How about a corner stove instead?

posted by span on 2006-11-14 16:35:13

Oh my gosh - I would definitely vote for D - but this post just goes to show how personal choices are.

Why not place the dishwasher unconnected in positions for A&D then tape the outline of both corner and straight sink on the floor consecutively and move around and see what feels best FOR YOU.

posted by just me on 2006-11-14 16:35:48

D! Do not do the corner sink!! Cheesy!

posted by cb on 2006-11-14 13:46:52

surprised at the vote for a-- i agree that you'll regret the corner sink! i say d too!

posted by es on 2006-11-14 13:49:46

I think A and D are the most practical because -- if I'm looking at your layouts correctly -- they show the dishwasher right next to the sink.

posted by a-m on 2006-11-14 13:51:28

I agree with the corner sink, YUCK
I also like the d layout, sink-dishwasher+counterspace-stove-frige
works
if you cook
think about it

posted by amanda on 2006-11-14 13:52:02

I also agree that the dishwasher should be next to the sink. Can the people who are against the corner sink explain why? "cheesy" isn't an answer and it looks the most efficient to me.

posted by sarah on 2006-11-14 13:53:43

I vote "A" or "D"

You need that little counter section between the sink and stove.

However, with "A" you may have some people-flow issues. Butts might be bumping if someone is standing at the sink and while someone is cooking at the stove. Which is why "D" might be better.

posted by JenPDX on 2006-11-14 13:53:50

i have the corner sink layout with the dw next to it and i would prefer not to have it that way.
think about it. you take things out of the sink and put them into the dishwasher plus sinks really are the gathering places of kitchens usually.
dont do any of the corner sink options.

posted by jason on 2006-11-14 13:54:25

D - dishwasher needs to be next to sink - the corner sink i had before created 'wasted' space and i hated it.

posted by nic on 2006-11-14 13:54:49

Option A would give you the best options for prepping and cooking. Even a little extra counter space could be the difference between peaceful cooking and going crazy (all over worrying if a corner sink is "cheesy")!

posted by T in California on 2006-11-14 13:55:52

I vote for D.
I have a corner sink in my current kitchen. I absolutely hate it. It's not efficient and a bit awkward. It's definitely the first thing to go in my kitchen.

I also chose D over B because it makes more sense to have the dishwasher next to the sink, rather than next to the range.

Rita

posted by Rita on 2006-11-14 13:57:01

My apartment has a corner sink. It is hellish to use. And the triangular space behind it is wasted space (it is too damp to realistically store any thing there.) If you are worried about having a limited work space buy a cutting board you can put over your sink. I vote for d.

posted by laura dot on 2006-11-14 13:58:07

not plan a. WAY too tight a squeeze to get to the sink when the dishwasher is open. plan d gets my vote, with dw right next to sink. but if you really need the extra counter space on the adjacent wall, go with plan c. more room to maneuver between sink and dw, and less likely you'll need to squeeze into the sink area when the oven door is open.

posted by s on 2006-11-14 13:58:26

D. The corner sink is inefficient, and you want the dishwasher next to the sink. Sinks next to stoves make everything difficult. Also, a 12" extra counter won't help very much. If you really need the extra space get a thin table for over there.

posted by Max on 2006-11-14 13:59:04

I was going to say C but then I read that having a corner sink is awkward and cheesy so I clearly know nothing!

posted by jennie (2) on 2006-11-14 13:59:22

I'd choose D. Sink next to the dishwasher.

Nice graphics!

posted by jaybee on 2006-11-14 14:00:48

D! Dishwasher should definitely be positioned immediately adjacent to the sink. Also, a person should be able to stand at the sink with the dishwasher open to facilitate rinsing & loading.

I would consider extending the amount of counter space in Elevation B to increase work surface area or else fabricating some type of pull-out work "shelf" that could slide out from above the dishwasher/below the countertop (obviously dependent on countertop material).

Good luck!

posted by minipanda on 2006-11-14 14:07:46

The dishwasher *has* to go next to the sink unless you plan to route the water to the dishwasher through the stove. I also like the idea of the extra counter space afforded by the corner sink, but if people who have experience say it's not a good workspace, then I would trust them. Maybe you could look into those new "dish-drawers" - I don't know whether this would give you a bit of extra storage space or not.


posted by Joanne on 2006-11-14 14:07:55

A: bad b/c there isn't enough space between the sink and the open dishwasher.

B & C: bad b/c the dishwasher needs to be next to the sink.

Least of all evils is D. I suggest getting a small kitchen island/cart on wheels that you can put against the left wall so that you regain some of the counter space lost by not having a corner sink.

FWIW, I have a corner sink in my home right now, and I hate it. When we remodel, I plan on getting rid of it even though it means "losing" some counter space.

posted by ami on 2006-11-14 14:09:15

What is directly opposite your kitchen?

A solid wall? Or does it open into another room?

You could get an attractive kitchen cart(with butcher-block top) or tea/coffee cart to gain additional prep space or to house small appliances you use everyday/regularly (toaster, coffee pot, electric kettle, microwave) if you have an electrical outlet nearby.

If you can keep the counters free of those small appliances it makes things lot easier to use when you need to prep food.

posted by JenPDX on 2006-11-14 14:10:58

Your choices are between options A or D. You'll want the dishwasher close to the sink. I had one all the way across a kitchen of mine and it was annoying to say the least.

posted by Charlie on 2006-11-14 14:10:59

I'm with everyone. 'D' all the way. It seems the most practical. If you're washing veggies, then you'll want that counter space right above the dishwasher before you cook it on the stove.

posted by bauhaus61 on 2006-11-14 14:13:45

"D" --you need the prep space for washing your veggies and cutting them. You need room for a dishdrainer--for the inevitable stuff that won't fit. And rather than dishwasher drawers: freezer and fridge drawers would be a better option, if you can afford them.

posted by Alana in Canada on 2006-11-14 14:16:34

I vote for D...it's the most functional for food prep and loading the dishwasher. Keep the dishwasher close to the sink, but do not go with the corner sink. I had one with the dishwasher right next to it (like your A layout) and when the dishwasher was open, there was very little room to stand in front of the sink to rinse dishes while I loaded the dishwasher. Also, consider that any splashes or food mishaps at the sink will end up in that little corner behind the sink and it can be a pain to keep clean.

posted by als on 2006-11-14 14:16:48

D is a good layout. But you need space to store items. I'm surprised no one has suggested Dishwasher drawers. They are small, and require frequent running, but they will give you additional storage space underneath assuming you install a drawer underneath it.

In a smal space like this one, if anyone tells you not to do drawers wherever you can fit them, they are doing you a dis-service.

posted by John on 2006-11-14 14:20:09

hmmm...to follow up on my last post...you could also do a pull-out work surface on the elevation B wall by framing out horizontal "pockets" between the cabinet boxes. If that's too involved, depending on what cabinetry you're using, you could extend work surface area with "drawer topper" cutting boards - I know Ikea has one for their cabinet systems and you could do something similar for non-Ikea systems.

posted by minipanda on 2006-11-14 14:21:23

Gotta be D. I have a corner sink and its inefficient - you cant use the triangle of space behind it and if you want a dishrack on your counter you cant set it up to drain into the sink because of the weird angle. Ugh!!

Nice graphics!

posted by clairepetrol on 2006-11-14 14:22:11

A.

Both C& D leave almost NO counter space. And that's the one thing I wish I had more of in my kitchen.

posted by holly in dc on 2006-11-14 14:23:24

B simpy because the stove next to the fridge is going to cause your fridge to work much harder, and as a result, your electric bills will increase.

B also gives you a good working line with food prep going from fridge (raw), to prep, to cooking, to cleaning.

Plus in the scheme of things, it's only about a foot an a half of ground to cover from the sink to the dishwasher. And how many dirty dishes will you really need to use the dishwasher for anyway?

posted by john on 2006-11-14 14:26:20

I agree with Maxwell that A is best. If you were to install a sink with a disposal, your cutting board and prep area is near the sink and garbage removal will be so much easier.

posted by Rosa on 2006-11-14 14:26:49

plan d: why not slide the range over all the way next to the fridge, eliminating that small sliver of countertop, thus gaining that space on the left side of the stove where it'd be of more use?

posted by s on 2006-11-14 14:27:10

I do kitchen designs everyday, I say D
Why not corner sink: first of all if you have back problem, you'll keep having pains in lower back because the way corner sink is recessed from counter front edge more than on straight you would have to lean more.
as for other options think about the way you work. I would take s/t out of refr. and would bring it to sink, wash and prepare then cook. so the counter space on side of sink for preparing and cooking is more essential than by stove. by stove you just want to make sure when you have a pot with handle it doesn't touch refr. Thanks pretty much all. It also makes a difference what's on other side is used for. Hope this is useful.

posted by Yana on 2006-11-14 14:36:02

I'm so happy to see I'm not the only freak who hates the corner sink option!
I had that layout in my old apartment and I hated it! It's a lot of wasted space.

I vote for D. Dishwasher next to the sink makes the most sense, and the counter space in between the sink and the range is perfect prep place.

posted by Asli on 2006-11-14 14:38:02

Plus i don't think it's a dw next to sink in option d, but if it is that would be the perfect spot just because it's right there next to sink on straight line. try opening dw, when standing on corner for sink. (most uncomfortable situation)

posted by Yana on 2006-11-14 14:39:03

re: John's comment - if I'm reading Elevation B correctly (the wall opposite the wall with sink/stove/refrigerator), there are a ton of drawers/plenty of storage.

Craig - it's a small space but very workable. I think galley kitchens are great (super efficient!)...I wish I could do a galley kitchen in my home but alas a darn window and the basement door get in the way. I think sacrificing the little 12" counter for better access to the last bank of storage on your elevation B wall is another vote for plan D.

posted by minipanda on 2006-11-14 14:42:14

You've got tough choices here, with either the dishwasher separated from the sink (in B) or the stove next to the fridge (in D). The stove/fridge justaposition is by far the biggest no-no... but I'd actually go with A, since it solves both problems. I just redid my own galley kitchen, and mine is basically D but with the fridge on the opposite wall, across from the sink.

posted by Jane on 2006-11-14 14:44:00

If you actually plan on cooking anything here, in my mind there is absolutely no question. Gotta be "A"!!! The others just don't allow enough prep space for actually doing much of anything.

You might also want to look into an under-the-sink dishwasher.

posted by Windwolf on 2006-11-14 14:44:16

Do any of you people voting for D ever do dishes or cook??? You may think the corner sink is "cheesy," but it's efficient. It gives extra counter space on the right for prep (because that's a fridge all the way over on the right, correct?) and for serving.

Here's a little trick: That seemingly dead space behind the corner sink can fit a narrow dish rack, which you know you still need for all the hand-cleaned pans that can't go in the dishwasher. Otherwise, those dishes would end up going on the counter above the dishwasher, and you would have absolutely NO counter space left.

Plus, with the corner sink, you can actually look out that window, rather than straight ahead at a wall.

The only true option is A, because the dishwasher absolutely has to be right next to the sink. One note of warning, though: If you put a cabinet under that corner sink and keep all your cleaning supplies there (as most people do), make sure the door opens to the right (with hinges on the right). Otherwise, every time you reach for that dishwasher detergent, you'll first have to close the dishwasher door to get the cabinet open.

Looks like a great space!

posted by Alex on 2006-11-14 14:45:27

D but frige on the sink side, please.
Frige next to the oven, waste of energy, and not good work flow.
When you cook, work flows this way:
Frige;you take out things->sink;wash->some counter space(/d/w);chop ->oven;boil or fry.
And after the dinner it is easier with frige next to the sink and d/w.
Think about it.

posted by Ellen on 2006-11-14 14:51:26

"A" without a doubt.

Dishwasher is in the right place (assuming you have enough clearance to stand in front of the sink while the door is open) and you have the most counter space. Believe me, you need more prep area than what only the top of the dishwasher will provide. And you've got that wee little strip of counter between the stove and fridge for setting down spice jars, mixing spoons, etc.

I'm curious to know why the owners of corner sinks dislike them so much. It seems with some research into a decent product (I've seen double-sink corner sinks) and good design/placement, it would be fine.

But then again, I've never owned one....

posted by soozle on 2006-11-14 14:55:09

This is a tough one.

But I agree with Alex. I had layout A in a previous apartment but the sink wasn't in the corner it was actually turned the full 90 degrees so I would look directly out the window. I filled the space to the right of it with a small dishrack to place items that I'd cleaned or rinsed when cooking. It could not be used for food prep. BUT the worst thing about it was that the dishwasher door blocked it when open. I would NEVER want that again. If you can open at least one of the doors under the sink with the dishwasher open then fear not.

B is out. The counter between the fridge and stove never works well you feel trapped between them as you dice, etc.

C is out for the same reason.

D works well for flow and being able to open the dishwasher and stand at the sink but you're trapped standing there when the door is open. This isn't so bad, though, and being able to place the dishes in the washer from the sink is very good.

If you are left handed - go with A for sure.
If not, then D will do. But still think about A for a couple reasons:

Hand soap / utensil cups / extra dishes drying on a towel (that don't fit in dishwasher) / your favorite pepper mill / flowers / whatever, can go in the small areas near the sink. The extra counter space is HUGELY appreciated if/when you cook for friends or with your girlfriend. I used to cover two burners of my stove to use as extra counter space and hated doing it.

BUT with all that said, here's another thought:
On the wall behind the sink you have choices. I once designed a slide-out extra counter (for a friend who had the same set-up) that could pull out when he needed it. That left access to his window open all the time in the galley style but he could then pull that counter out and use it for placing items while he cooked. It didn't fill the area completely by the sink so he still had access to it and that little extra counter space came in very handy when he needed it. It removed one drawer he had on the wall but he didn't miss it a bit. You wouldn't either, by the looks of how much storage you have.



posted by joel on 2006-11-14 20:30:08

D seems the most workable, A doesn't have enough space in front of the sink with the DW open.

But let me make another suggestion. Lose all the solid floor to ceiling storage options including the full size fridge. Maximize the counter space avaliable by going with a base and upper cabinets. Use an under counter fridge to free up that countertop.On the opposite wall make all the countertop available even if it is only 12"

If you are going to actually use the kitchen you'll appreciate counter space more than the storage you'll give up.

Working with a small fridge is not very hard, just shop more often. If you think that you absolutely need all the storage then get rid of some of the stuff you probably never use.

posted by Ron on 2006-11-14 15:17:24

It looks like your plan calls for a 30" range.
Mightn't you prefer to downsize the range to 24 inches (Blue Star makes a nice one, by the way) and gain 6 inches of countertop?
(Also, the plan calls for an 18" dishwasher. Downsizing the range would allow the option of either a full-size dishwasher or one of the dishwasher drawers -- they are 24" -- mentioned above.)

posted by Tom on 2006-11-14 15:29:26

I have a corner sink and I do the dishes. Having a corner sink makes me hate doing the dishes.

1. ergonomically something is wrong. I find it very straining because I have to lean into the sink more, instead of standing up straight.

2. waste of space- to get the same size sink, a corner position takes up more space (think diagonal line)... perhaps this is why whoever installed my sink tried to push it in (away from counter) more, resulting in #1.

3. the triangle behind the sink is a waste of space- not even good for a dishrack, even a slim one (I tried)- because unless you hang the upper cabinets higher than normal, there is really not that much clearance between the dish rack (those X shaped ones) and the upper cabinets- not so much a problem for cups and saucers, but an annoyance to have to maneuver the dinner plates everytime.

What about swapping the position of the sink and range in D? This way, the frige can be as far as from the range. You can always put a cutting board over the sink over prepping.

posted by Rita on 2006-11-14 15:29:31

I cook all the time, have a corner sink and absolutely hate it. The dead triangular space is always getting wet/ damp, so like someone else said, you can't really put anything there. Yes, the extra counter space would be great, but the corner option actually cuts off some of the room space, which makes a big difference in a small room. I agree that a cart or other option would be better. When we renovate, which is hopefully soon, I will gladly rip out that corner sink and cabinet. I vote for D.

posted by daisyh on 2006-11-14 15:32:49

I like A best for three reasons

1) you can move dishes directly from the sink to the dishwasher

2) you get extra counter space between the sink and the stove, which you'll appreciate as you're rinsing and chopping food and getting ready to put in, say, a frying pan, and

3) you get that extra counter space to the left, which will be very handy.

posted by jackie on 2006-11-15 02:16:05

I think I like B since it gives you work space on each side of the stove and as john said, the flow from the fridge, to prep, to cooking, to cleaning makes sense to me. Since the sink can be used as "work space" also while cooking this would give you space on each side of the stove. In D everything you do is going to be on the 18" of space on top of the dishwasher and there's no where else to go. With B you can go from side to side and again, the trip to the dishwasher is not all that far.

In D that 4 1/2" of space between the stove and fridge is virtually useless, I just measured the coffee mug I'm drinking from and with the handle it takes up about 5" of space ... so other than some really skinny items, that area is basically useless except for maybe a spoon rest. If you went with the 24" stove as suggested and added the 6" to that space, you might have a bit of working space there though.

If you put a 24" stove in the C scenario, you could gain that 6" between the sink and stove (and hopefully save burning yourself IF you're doing dishes and cooking on that corner burner at the same time) and gain even more counter space giving you counter area to work on on both sides of the stove and both sides of the sink.

I think the answer lies in the way YOU cook and prepare food. How important is the counter space to you?

And I LOVE all the storage on the opposite side of the kitchen!

Oh and I'm curious, will the sink a double sink or a single?

posted by klynnnn on 2006-11-15 07:14:58

I almost did something like A in my apartment, but then I realized it would be very awkward to try to manouver to the corner sink. So definitely D. You not only want the dishwasher next to the sink for plumbing reasons, but also because otherwise, you'll have zero countertop next to the sink, which is bad.

posted by sam on 2006-11-15 09:29:32

My kitchen is like the one that ny suggested, D but with the stove and sink flipped. Given that I'm stuck with the size of the kitchen, I love the design. And if you do it that way, you could have a rolling cart under your window which can provide you with additional storage/counter space, but slide out of the way when you need to get to your oven.

posted by 22209 on 2006-11-15 12:02:24

ddddd
d d
d d
d d
d d
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posted by karmabunny on 2006-11-15 12:22:54

Craig,

How deep is that Blanco sink? With a smaller sink, I personally prefer a very deep sink to compensate the lack of surface space. I have looked into Blanco sinks as well, but I believe they make a 12" deep sink.

Although the Blanco sink looks very cool, at the end, we ended up getting a 9.5" deep Kohler instead, b/c the round edges seems to be easier to clean, and it also leaves more space underneath for garbage disposal and junk.

-Brian

posted by Brian on 2006-11-15 12:28:58

I vote for A. My family has a corner sink and I've never noticed any problems. In this layout, in particular, the corner sink option will give you much more counterspace. As for the space behind the sink - we have a plant there. It's nice green space, not "dead space."

posted by June on 2006-11-15 12:38:36

Brian:

I completely agree about the sink depth, though Blano does not make it clear how deep it is. Currently, we have a traditional 7.5" or so drop in sink, whereas anything we do now will be an undermount adding about 1.5" of space to whatever we end up with.

Thanks, all.

posted by Craig on 2006-11-15 14:09:56

Craig,

You may find the following page useful:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/blancoundermountsinks.html

The one you like is 10" deep. I like yours, but wifey vetoed it. So we first settled on 501-114 which is 12" deep. However, we were concerned that other plumbing fixtures won't fit underneath, so we went with a Kohler (K-3325) instead. I think it's cheaper too.

Oh, I'd also like to vote for D, but I'd suggest you to reconsider a 24" range. I guess it's all personal, but I'm not a big fan of having multiple burners going at the same time. I'd also suggest you to put some kind of backsplash next to the fridge for insulation and ease of cleaning.

Good Luck.

Brian

posted by Brian on 2006-11-15 23:46:55

D

No question about it - it will feel more spacious than A - dishwasher MUST be next to the sink

posted by Violetsrose on 2006-11-16 08:39:18

Here's another vote for D!

Like the other comments above -- LOVE THE GRAPHICS! Did you do those yourself, and if so, what program did you use? I'm renovating my kitchen as well and would love some recommendations on some good kitchen design software.

Regarding the oven/fridge adjacency, i've heard about insulating the small space between the two appliances, since it tends to be "dead space" anyway (no drawers or cabinets in the few inches between). Any opinions on the feasibility of that option?

posted by Martina on 2006-11-17 10:49:55

I actually quite like corner sinks, I've had one and appreciated the extra space. I used to stand things to dry behind the sink and liked the extra space around it. That said I agree that you want to be able to have the dishwasher door open and stand at the sink at the same time, so A is out. And you want the dishwasher next to the sink, no doubt there, so that eliminates B and C.

Are you right handed? My concern with D is that there is not enough space to the right of the stove and pot handles won't be able to go to the right. If you're left handed it's not as much of a problem. Maybe consider smaller stove an more space to the right of it. I used to have a stove with only 6 inches of counter space to the right and it drove me nuts.

posted by Nicola on 2006-11-17 10:59:37

Martina:

The drawings were created by our designer, who no doubt uses some sort of CAD program. I feel like there may have been a post a while back about some programs that help with do-it-yourself layouts.

Craig

posted by Craig on 2006-11-17 12:04:46

unless it is too late, why not put the fridge on the opposite side from the stove and sink? That woudl give you more much needed counterspace for chopping and preparing food. Likewise, my kitchen has pull-ut cuttign boards and they are great for times when the counter is full fo other stuff.

posted by tom on 2006-11-17 21:55:55