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40 more people than they recommend? I say you are screwed.

Rishi,

remember only about 80% of the people you invite will show up. even of some of the people you are 100% sure will be there...not all will be. general rule, which was proven true at my own wedding. i'd suggest using long rectangular tables. they're not nearly as bad for conversation as i had previously thougt and i think you can probably fit a lot more people in a smaller amount of space. just remember to keep the table decorations low which should allow for people to talk across the table.

I say start calling people and inviting them to the after party unless they want to stand in a crowded room. You should have really planned better. Shame shame shame.

if you've decided on round tables... it's not too bad if you sat 11 to a table instead of 10. this happens often in chinese banquets. we always invite way too many people and of course there are those that show up with one too many guests. but it all works out.

congrats and have fun!

At our wedding we had enough room for the tables but not the dance floor--so we just moved some tables out of the way after dinner to make a dance floor. We made sure that young, non-whiny friends were sitting at those tables, and gave them a heads up that their seats were destined to be sacrificed to the dancing gods. The caterers moved the tables and chairs away really fast. (The floors were wood so we didn't have to lay down a separate dance floor surface--I dont know if that's true in your space.)

Also, August is still a long time from now--unless you invited mostly in-town guests or are estimating really conservatively, I bet fewer people than you think will come. We invited something like 170, thinking we'd end up with 140, but only had 105 in the end.

Wow, that IS a lot of guests. I count myself lucky that we had 110 at our wedding last summer, but I did choose long slim tables to maximize space in the rather small ballroom at a 1910 house on LI. I played with a lot of options and ended up with some odd depth of table, resulting from two skinny conference tables squished together. I think it was about 31"? Most were 8 feet long and seated 10, though I put a couple together to have the wedding party and their spouses/partners all together. It worked great--the width was enough for comfortable seating and place settings, but meant that I could use small flowers arrangements and lots of candles to fill what little space there was. It saved tons of space (and money) and made the whole thing feel like a dinner party instead of a...wedding reception. Seriously, when have you sat at a 12 person round table except at weddings and conference meals?

Many pictures are here.

I also agree about making the dance floor a touch smaller than you'd think. I was afraid ours would be too tight, and it was, a bit, when everyone was dancing. But that also meant that if only a handful of people were dancing it didn't look sad and empty. It felt fun and full all the time.

Perhaps if you are at any point sending any email updates to invitees (hotels, accomodations updates whatever) mention that you have overbooked, you will be able to fit everyone in, but if peoples circumstances have changed and they can no longer make it to let you know, and this will make your life easier??

Anyone who is thinking they may not be able to attend but likely to no-show as 'last minute emergency' rather than look like they are not attending might come clean? Not sure how that fits with regular wedding ettiquette....but it may help you get closer to your real number.

I second Jenny in DC's suggestion. Once the dancing starts up most people will be up and about, so the loss of two or three tables won't hurt anyone and having them there in the first place will allow you to use space otherwise reserved for the dance floor.

Also, I would shy away from in any way insinuating to people that you have overbooked and are looking for people to not attend. I think that's really tacky and also could be hurtful to the people you choose to sort of uninvite (because that's at least sort of what you'd be doing) or give the option of backing out.

I say pack em in and then get some tables out of the way for dancing. Also, if the place won't remove those tables for you, THAT'S when you reach out to your close friends and ask if they'd mind lending a hand after dinner to shuffle some tables around!

The facility wants to maximize the allowable guests so they can cook more food and make more money. I'd bet 220 is pretty tight, but that may be with the round tables. Comments above indicate that long rectangular tables can accomodate more people/sq. ft., but almost 40% more may be pushing it.

First thing to do would be call the place and ask if they can get rectangular tables for you to use. You may have to rent them from somebody else.

No one including you will remember these little snafus 2o years from now!The more the merrier. I second all the great comments about rectangular tables. Even though you invited 260 they all wont show up. Move tables away when the dancing starts and make sure old people arent sitting at those tables. Dont freak out-- it will turn out really great in the end. You will remember the wonderful day and so will your guests.

I would make sure to ask the facility what the maximum occupancy is based on Code requirements. Many places have posted occupancies. And while you may want to cram people in you still have to leave sufficient aisles for egress.

First, you should be certain, as Magnolia points out, that the 220 limit is not a fire department requirement. If it is, you have really gotten yourself in a pickle, because there is a good chance the site would not accommodate your desire to seat more than that. (You original e-mail makes it sound like you have not invited that many people, but you think you will net 255-260.) If Code/fire regs are not an issue, I agree with long skinny tables. Plus it is much easier to talk to more people at long skinny tables than at big round tables, where you can never hear anyone but the people on each side of you.

It's time for you to have a pleasant and frank chat with the event planner at your venue -- a chat in which you are forthright about your concerns and also ask lots of questions.

The 220 limit may be a fire department maximum (big problem!) or it may be what the planner tells Happy Couples so that they'll limit their guest list to 250 (no problem!). Only the planner knows.

The planner also knows what tables the site has, how skinny the waiters are, how many people will really fit around one of their round tables, how much space a typical band or DJ set-up requires, and what your options are for moving tables midway through the event.

The planner's job is to collaborate with you to produce a successful event. Everything will go so much better if you get his/her expertise working for you, rather than treating him/her as a barrier to getting what you want.

Rishi -
I looked at the Westside loft for our wedding too, and we were assuming 200. We thought that that would be tight - but I think that you can make this work if you are creative. Some thoughts:

1. If you want this to be a party you cant make the dance space too small - so I wouldnt shrink that!. People hate feeling squeezed in when they dance

2. If you abort the sit down dinner and do an extended cocktail hour with small tables and chairs for 3/4 of the guests you will have plenty of space.

3. See if you can rent one of the smaller spaces (or the roof)on the site for the cereomony or cocktail hour. That way you can keep one whole side of the room for dinner and the other for dancing

4. Long rectangular tables will probably allow you to get the most people in to the smallest space

5. You can do a seated dinner first, follwed by dancing and have the tables removed during a passed dessert course

just ideas - let us know how you make out

I dunno, but based on what you are likely paying the Westside Loft to use the space, I would hope that you can get their advice as well. What does the event contact have to say? I would figure they know the space best.

I think a real AT response would be, "You're spending way too much money on this wedding! 260 people at a sit down dinner? And dancing? Are you crazy? Put it towards a new home for you two!"

But okay. This is what you want and you're willing to spend 50k on it.

1) I'd do cocktails in smaller of the two large rooms.
2) Keep the small third square room for your staging and stuff.. maybe a sofa and portable DVD player for the kids, nursing moms, etc
3) Move into larger room for dinner. I'd do 3 long 30" wide tables, 50" apart. If you allow 30" per person, you have room for 36 people per side. Times 6 sides and people at the heads of each table = 222 people
4) Move back into the other, smaller large room for cake and dancing.

So, you can do this. If you have any kids coming, set them up in the cocktail room (and serve em something cheap already!) or you need to add more people per table. Meanwhile, you'll have cocktails and cake in the other rooms so they'll be a lot of back and forth. People can be smooched for a little while.

The big issue I would assume would be maximum occupancy as per code. Fire marshalls will have their way at your wedding regardless if 260 people can fit if only 220 are allowed to be inside.

Just checking off several answers

1. We had 50% less people actually show up than had RSVP'ed. Big bummer for us since we had a strict 100 limit and we'd have invited more if we'd known that.

2. Fire code check

3. I like the moving the tables idea.

given the dimensions on the sheet the space is roughly 97' x 86' = 8342 SF. Let's assume that 3,000SF is core and kitchen, which brings the total to 5343 SF. As per 2003 IBC (international builiding code) Assembly spaces with unconcentrated spaces is 15 net SF per occupant so, 5342/15= 356 occupants. So I would have to say you are safe on the amount of guests. Maybe they don't have enough equipment?

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I feel much better. After considering the comments, this is where my girlfriend and I stand:

1. There's no fire code issue, thank god. Westside Loft advertises itself as being able to accomodate 300 people for cocktails and the manager of the facility assured me that 260 people wouldn't create any legal problems. Only logistical ones.

2. As for logistics, the manager claimed that the most space efficient shape for tables is round. When I suggested the cool-skinny-long table idea, he said that 10 person rounds will actually maximize space. I did a quick internet search and found this site (http://www.dinette.com/Page.bok?template=advice) which claims that "It's a little known fact that round tables often fit the most number of people while taking up the smallest amount of physical space." Do people think that's true? Would 12 person rounds be even more space efficient? Either way, very interesting.

3. Rachel is on our wavelength. We actually did rent the rooftop space for cocktails. Thus, we're having the ceremony in the smaller large room (to borrow Julianna's lingo), cocktail hour upstairs, and were planning to have the dinner and dancing in the bigger large room.

4. The problem, of course, is that 260 people is 40 people more than Westside Loft recommends fitting in the larger room. Thus, the issue is whether we should try to squeeze everyone into the larger room and use the other room for dancing and drinks or we should put people on both sides of the loft. That would give everyone more breathing room but it would really separate people. The biggest problem with that (in my opinion) is that people on one side of the room won't be able to see the speeches and dances from their seats. Maybe that's a plus. After all, who wants to pretend they're paying attention to the speeches. What do you guys think? Cram and dance in the other room or spread out and obstruct views for some people?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

I think you have to have everyone able to see the speeches, etc. Guests care more about the bride/groom than the people they're seated with. And I don't think there's room to seat everyone for dinner and have dancing in the larger large room. Is that what you were saying?

How about dinner in the larger large room, invite people to the smaller large room for speeches/toasts and a desset buffet (yum) and then move back into the larger room which has been transformed into a dance floor with small tables.

It's a lot of movement but I like that at weddings.

Will there be a band?

Never thought I'd see the IBC mentioned here!

Julianna's on to something when she writes, "Will there be a band?"

Seems to me the band's the key. What type of music? If it's 80s punk, you're set: Just turn the dance floor into a mosh pit, and you'll have more than enough room.

Or have them play something down 'n' dirty and encourage lap dancing. That'll double your seating capacity.

-D

Rishi, to answer your question above: Yes, cram and dance in the other room, instead of spreading out and obstructing views for some people. I'd think most everyone would want to feel involved in the speeches and dances....

Now, is there a mathematician in the house to answer Rishi's find, that:
"It's a little known fact that round tables often fit the most number of people while taking up the smallest amount of physical space." True? And what's that weaselly "often" doing there? Do they mean to restrict the comparisons to table shapes that are actually usable?

This reminds me of an episode of an English comedy called AS TIME GOES BY where they try to figure out how many people they can fit into the house for the reception.

Weddings are such fun.

You spend an entire evening stuck with people you don't know; will never see again (thank God); cannot talk to because the music is so loud you feel your brain has sbeen blown out.

And then there are the speeches. Endless speeches. The compere. Both fathers. The best man. The groom. The bride. People gnawing off their own arms waiting for the mothers & the bridesmaids to add a few words. I was grateful telegrams haven't been replaced with txt messages. Anyone with a phone and far enough away not to be seen was playing games. I forgot my phone. Who needs a phone at a wedding?

Fewer people. Fewer speeches. Some music written before 1995.

On the bright side, you'll go into debt for this wedding but you'll spend a lot less on the next one(s). Subsequent marriages are always nicer because the couples are too broke after the divorce to afford this kind of crap.

i like the long, skinny tables idea. and if you are only over by 40 people, chances are just the right number will actually show up. i, too, can attest that a 10-15% of the "definitely coming" crowd will not show up at the last minute.

whatever you decide - remember to have fun and enjoy your day! =)

Don't forget to plan out where you will greet everyone - this is usually a giant line of starving people, waiting to sit down while you shake hands and receive congrats, etc. With this many people, table to table will be a hard way to do this. Good luck.

Round tables vs. long rectangular tables: rectangular tables may be too efficient, meaning they don't leave enough floor space (between people's backs) for the servers to quickly navigate. Caterers wouldn't like that. Round tables create aisles of varying widths, allowing servers to pass each other.

10-top round tables may get the most people in, but 12-tops may actually result in less capacity. Take it to it's logical extreme: 1 enormous round table in that barely fits in the room. There would be a bunch of space in the middle of the table that went unused. This suggests that once the table is large enough that the centerpiece is not reachable, you're getting close to the max-capacity size.

I could go on. I love this kind of stuff. (Next post: balancing the wasted space in the middle of a large table with the extra wasted floor space by having small tables, etc.)

As a guest, there is nothing worse than being crammed into a dinner table.

re: "You spend an entire evening stuck with people you don't know; will never see again (thank God);"

So, is it just because you are greedy and want gifts that you suffer the intolerable company of these people? Or were you refering to being "stuck" as a guest? Either way, I wouldn't want such miserable company, either.

And as far as speeches, THANK GOD there is at least ONE venue where it is appropriate and acceptable to stand up and tell people you love them and want them to be happy.

I wish we had MORE opportunities to give and hear these speeches year round.

Jeez.

Deb of oz, you sound like quite a catch.

I love love love weddings. The actual events. It's the one occasion where cramming into a large space with a lot of people you don't know is actually a lot of FUN. Usually people are more open and friendly than ever. Because you know everyone there is wishing the couple well, and so there's a lot of good will, you feel it's okay to make public displays of a the positive feelings you have, and you know that this is completely appropriate here and now. How great! And you can dance and dance and dance.

No suggestions, just - congratulations! Have a fun wedding! When they day comes, (and the time comes), enjoy it!

Are you 100% certain that you'll have 255 show up? I just got married last month. We invited 267 people but our actual acceptance came to 180 - well less than we were expecting. Wait until you see how your responses come in - then consider using both sides of the loft. We had our reception in a multi-room set up and I was rather uncertain about how it would work out. It was ideal.

Good luck!