apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I was just at the Carsons home furnishing store yesterday and they had a couch similar to this for about 2800 (or less, I don't remember, I just remember the chaise part of the sofa was 1200) that was on sale. I know they have payment plans there.

You're not going to like my answer, BUT, my advice is to save up and pay "cash" for the couch you want. In other words, don't put it on a payment plan, a "same as cash" plan or a credit card. The reason is if something changes in your life or career, those payments may not be as easy to make. I know several people who bought furniture this way just out of college and they paid about 4x the original price when it was all said and done.

No one likes to wait on things, but it's the best thing to do and it's a lot less stress to just buy something outright and enjoy owning it without that monthly bill, AND INTEREST, coming every month.

Don't neglect your local Craigslist, either. It took me several months of vigilance, but at the beginning of summer I found a Room and Board Dublin sectional in a GREAT fabric choice for $700. The couch retails for $2,800, not to mention taxes and delivery. The couch was virtually brand new. The owner had two and this one was in his media room in the basement and looked like it had never been sat in. There are tons of great deals out there on well cared for secondhand furniture if you're willing to be patient.

But, if you're buying new, save up and BUY it.

I agree with dharmabum...save and pay cash, payment plans are just more debt waiting to happend.

http://tri-stateantiques.com/Tri-StateAntiques.html#11

This is tri-state antiques.They have layaway plans for true vintage pieces.I bought an Eames Compact sofa over a 6 month period.Very nice people.


German

Don't know if this helps, but I bought the Gus Jane bi-sectional about two months ago and got it on sale for 20% off. I had been wanting that sofa for some time and the sale took quite a bit off the total . . . so maybe wait for a sale, as they come up every couple of months (I did pay cash). Also, the store that I purchased from required 30% down up front and the remainder when it was ready about 6 weeks later. This would give you a little time, in the interim, to maybe save up a bit?

I can tell you that the sofa is even better than we thought and we have not regretted our purchase for one moment. Very good quality and very chic. It's a nice lounging sofa, as well.

I agree with paying cash, but saving doesn't work for everyone.

Going to a retailer and giving them cash in advance (the lay away program) gives the purchaser a sense of tangibility, which is much, much different than simply saving. Somehow that additional level of commitment makes it more real.

I'm hoping we'll see more lay away programs pop back up since credit is partly how we got in the mess we're in now.

Before I would just walk into a store and buy a couch, especially on credit, I would do a whole lot of research. $3000 is a lot of money to spend on a piece of furniture and you want to make sure that what you're buying is worth the cost. How is the couch constructed? What is its stuffing content? What kind of durability can you expect from the piece? What is the fabric content of the upholstery? Down and spring stuffing on 8-way tied springs, on a mortise and tenon hardwood frame, is the standard for high quality sofa construction. Are there other couches similar to the GUS modern that are less costly? The amount of money you are proposing to spend is enough to purchase a couch from most of the best manufacturers in the country, don't sell yourself short by just buying something that looks nice.

Keep in mind that every furniture retailer has one or two sales annually where their furniture is marked down to the lowest price of the year, usually 30-50% off the lowest tagged price. In addition, some retailers and manufacturers have warehouse sales while others have annual showroom and design center office floor sample clearances. Once you decide on the couch(es) you like most, get on the retailer or manufacturer's mailing list and keep an eye out for these sales. If you're going to spend $3000, especially on credit, make sure the item you're spending it on is worth the cost and you can't get it on sale for significantly less.

The biggest reason in this day and age not to go with a layaway program in this day and age -- ESPECIALLY if the retailer retains the item until it is paid for -- is the economy. If the retailer goes bust, you have lost your money; if you lose your job, ditto.

If you must, put it on a credit card, but try to hit a sale, and save for some cash down.

Store credit cards have higher interest rates and aren't as flexible as a regular credit card - unless you're going to open up the account at the store and can reasonably pay it off within the zero-interest timeframe, you'll be better off w/ a reguar card - preferably one that gets you cash back, merchandise points or airline miles.

Layaway progams also do zero for your credit record and cost retailers money in storage fees, administration fees that far outweigh the costs of accepting credit cards, and keep dollars tied up in inventory that should be turned over for the next season - In other words, Layaway isn't happenning for mid-to-high-end retailers.

I think it's been 10 years since I last bought a piece of furniture new at full price. Saving and then buying a floor sample, sale item or a slightly used piece off craigslist would probably the wise thing to do. I found that bargain hunting enhances, rather than diminishes, joy of ownership for me. Of course, that only works with cash.

Heather C, I worry about the person who is unable to put away $3000 on their own without someone else holding onto it for them. Saving is a life skill that seems to have been lost. As self-sufficient adults, we need to learn how to make a detailed budget and follow it. I know I wasn't very good at following my budget at first, but at least I gained a much better sense of my spending habits and where my money was ending up.

If OP is someone who has trouble following a budget to save money, he could set up an automatic transfer of a set amount from his chequing account to a savings account - monthly or twice a month, to coincide with paydays. That way the money will be put away before he's blown it all.

And some things are just not within everybody's means. This seems to be especially difficult for some people to accept. I have a friend with a severe spending problem, and her attitude about it is, "I deserve nice things too, don't I?" She's now in piles of credit card debt. She wanted to drive a fancy car, so when the bank refused to loan her the full amount she borrowed the rest from her parents. And now her boyfriend's been fired from his job and she's being laid off. The point is, if you need to scrape and borrow to get the money to buy something, unless it's a necessity of life, you probably can't afford it.

Let's say you do put a $3,000 couch on a credit card and you have a typical card with 18% interest and your minimum payment is $15. If you were to make the minimum payments on this card, you would spend the next 14 years paying it off, and the sofa would cost you close to $6000 instead of $3000. Pretty pricy sofa, and I'm sure you'll enjoy continuing to pay it off long after you've junked it.

The problem with "same as cash" programs is it's not the same. The interest is simply deferred. So, you walk out of the store with your couch, having essentially gotten a store credit card, and from that minute forward you are accruing interest. When the 12 months hits you now owe the price of the couch the 12 months of interest that has been accruing (which is going to be another $1000 or so on a $3000 couch) as well as the ongoing interest. So, now you'll owe $4,000 at an 18% or more interest rate! What if you did 3 years same as cash? Now your $3000 couch is a $5,000 couch and you still owe it.

Sure, the idea everyone starts out with is, "Well, I'll invest this money and make more on the interest, so in 12/24/36 months I'll simply pay the furniture off in full." That's fine, IF: 1) Nothing changes in your lifestyle or career. 2) You actually invest the money. 3) The investments earn you money instead of losing you money. 4) You don't see how easy it is to do this and put some appliances on the same program, a car lease, etc etc and you're doing the typical American thing of crediting your entire lifestyle, none of which you can actually pay off.

I also agree with the layaway advice, as far as not to do it. Stores are closing all the time and if they close/bankrupt you can kiss your money paid in goodbye.

If a person can't save a few thousand bucks for a piece of furniture they really want they:

1) Have bigger problems than buying a sofa, i.e. financial issues that buying a $3,000 sofa are simply going to compound and or

2) Don't really want the sofa.

I bought my Moooi Bottoni sofa using a DWR card. There was zero interest as long as I stuck to their payment plan of equal payments for either 1 or 2 years (I can't remember). I have had it for over 4 years and it's still beautiful. I'm not sure if DWR still offers this option though.

One reason the US economy is in such trouble is because of people's obsession with buying crap they cannot afford. Why in the world would you create debt to buy a thing? It simply does not make sense.

Buy what you can afford or save until you can afford what you really want.

Speaking as someone who got two absolutely gorgeous wooden armoires for under $700 last week after almost spending the double on Ikea crap - it is possble to find treasures without selling your soul, peace of mind or breaking the bank.

Save up. If you can't squirrel away $200 out of each paycheck, maybe a sofa isn't where you should start. If you can, you'll be most of the way there in a year. Yeah, it takes discipline. But it won't kill you.

PS. I highly recommend both Wesabe.com and http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/ for advice on saving. Think about your big picture life goals here.

I think if this dude finds a no-interest financing plan and can afford the sofa then buying the sofa may be reasonable. Everyone should layoff of the guy. Just because you don't want to fork over $3,000 in cash at one time does not mean you don't manage your money or are fiscally irresponsible. It also doesn't mean you are paying compound, deferred interest.

With that being said, dude, if you describe yourself as poor you don't need that sofa. Let go of the dream of the $3,000 sofa. I am not poor and I wouldn't buy a $3,000 sofa (or anything probably).

Time for the tough love. If you describe yourself as a "poor person" you should not be buying a $3000 sofa. Poor people should also not buy $40,000 cars, $2,000 watches, or any other expensive things for which more economical versions are available. People who are poor should be spending their money on food, shelter, and things that will enable them to not be poor any more (like education and job training and paying down existing debt).

Now, maybe you are not really poor. Maybe you are simply a person who does not currently have $3000 to spend on a sofa. In this case the solution is easy, and is listed above. Save $3000 and spend it on a sofa. You may be surprised that once you actually have the $3000 the idea of spending it on a sofa is not what you really want to do with it. Or you may spend it on the sofa and be very proud of yourself for doing it all on your own. In either case, you win!

OFF TOPIC:
who makes that sofa?

off topic:
who makes this sofa in the image above?

I always had expensive taste. In my poor days (as you say) I tried to reason with myself about what I could afford. I settled for less expensive items that looked like the original and I was never satisfied and eventually I would get the piece I wanted. In hindsight I wasted alot of money trying to be like my friends and I learned to do it right the first time.

My Advice: Less is more, a few quality pieces makes a statement. Buy what you LOVE, If you're gonna spend $3000 you better love it. Start saving and do your research: when I have a piece in mind I start saving and then research, where can I find the cheapest price, can I find it on craigslist etc. Sometimes I find a good deal before I have the full amount and that's when I ask about layaway. I've put items on layaway with 1/2 down and got them paid in 2-6 months. Also, be patient, there's always a better deal. But don't skimp, do without until you get what you want.

So, just want to say, "Save up enough cash" is not the one-size-fits-all greatest financial advice ever, even if it is generally solid.

This is hardly the place to dish out advanced financial planning, but here's some anyway. Plunking down a huge wad of cash on one thing at one time when it represents a significant portion of your yearly income is not a good idea. That is not to say it isn't affordable to you. Payment plans allow someone to maintain a cushion of financial security while making larger purchases over time. It's a fine idea, not inherently evil. And certainly not the same as making credit card purchases.

For those of you so opposed to payment plans for a sofa, did you save up and pay cash for your car? If so, you're in the minority.

Undercover, I don't disagree with what you said. I was simply making a statement. Not everyone has the saving skill. I'm not here to judge anyone based on their ability to save or determine what makes a self-sufficient adult. I'm wanted to say (like Wait, Wait) that a one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work. Lay away was just an option, but after reading some of the business issues, probably not a good one.

I agree with those who are saying that if you are "poor", a $3,000 sofa is NOT what you need. I don't necessarily have a problem with using store cards to finance something that zigzags along the line between need & want, but $3,000 is a lot of money to spend on a sofa. I couldn't save up to buy that in a year.

wait wait, I think a car is a different story. Many people require a car in order to work. In many parts of the country a person legitimately needs access to a car to live. But no one needs a sofa to live.

Credit is not inherently evil, but out society often abuses it.

Let's face it: most furniture is a luxury of one sort or another. I feel very comfortable saying that for items that are luxuries if you cannot pay cash you have no business buying it.

Live within your means. Be patient. Buy only what you love.

Heather C, if I'm judgy, it's because I'm fed up with people who go into debt in order to acquire unneccessary material things, then try to shirk responsibility when the bills start to pile up. Excuses like "Not everyone has the saving skill" is exactly the kind of excuse that enables people to justify their out-of-control spending.

If you don't have the saving skill, you LEARN it. It's that simple. Or you "trick" yourself into saving, as with my suggestion for OP to try automatic savings deposits. I think it insults everyone's intelligence to believe that people honestly cannot think of some way to force themselves to save. Unless you're truly so poor that you literally cannot put aside any money without giving up necessities, it's a matter of attitude.

And as Max points out, wait wait's analogy is not a fair comparison.

Furniture goes on sale at least twice a year at most stores. Save up for a sale. Start making those "payments" every month into a savings account and only consider credit once the item goes on sale. Let's say your $3000 sofa goes on sale for $2250 and you have $1000 saved up. That's when I would consider using your own credit to purchase the discounted sofa, making a $1000 payment against the credit card the first month (money from savings) and continuing your "payment" plan as payments on the credit card for the remaining months until the sofa is paid off.

And remember, a $3000 sofa with tax and average credit card interest paid over one year will actually cost you $3,801.90. Expect another $150 for delivery. So your "payment" into savings should be about $325 a month.

Let's keep in mind that a $3,000 sofa is a luxury item. Any financial advisor who would tell someone that it's OK to put a luxury item on a credit card or deferred credit plan is not a good financial counselor! lol

Just like the car analogy, the prevailing idea in this country that "if you can't afford it, just put it on a payment plan" is nuts, and it's why 65 year olds are getting jobs at McDonald's since they didn't save a penny toward retirement. I know students with $150,000 in student loan debt who live in nicer homes/apartments than I do, and drive brand new, mid-5 figure vehicles they are getting a "good lease deal" on. How smart is that?

If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Simple.

Lots of great advice, but jeez ~ the question asked is if any furniture retailers had payment plans. Without knowing anything real about Kevin's finances, the lecturing seems a bit out of place.
Yes, a $3000 dollar sofa is a luxury item, and not everybody needs or wants one . . . but reflectively lumping him in with people over their heads in credit card debt and wasteful spenders seems pretty extravagent for a guy who just wanted to know if he could pay a sofa he likes in a few smaller lumps than in one big one while in the meantime have a comfortable, pleaseing place to rest his butt.

Since you already have loads of very good advice about avoiding credit, I'm going to answer your question. Ethan Allen is one place you can buy on credit. They do have modern furnishings. Some very nice and lots of fabric selection. If you do it during one of the promotions you get longer without interest.

If you have good credit, Chase and many other companies offer an option for 12 months same as cash (no interest) on their credit card. If you are disciplined, there is no reason you can't make twelve $250 payments and pay the thing off over the 12 month period. I disagree that "poor" people shouldn't have good things. Better to buy a good piece now that 4 cheapo pieces over the next 5 years. And, I'm sure you mean poor in relation to teh well-heeled AT readers who can afford $500 mailboxes and the like. Not that you're on welfare. And there is no reason to assume you are irresponsible or foolish.

Life is short. Eat dessert first!

quiltmaster, no one is saying "poor" people should not have good things. People are saying that "poor" people (or any people for that matter), should not buy things they cannot afford.

A brand new Audi S6 would be a good thing. I could probably even stretch my budget to acquire one on lease/loan if I really wanted. But I'm not going to, because I'd be spending money I don't have.

What happens to those 12 monthly payments of $250 if some sort of unexpected expense comes up that leaves you depleted of funds? What if you loose your job? All of a sudden you get behind and then you've got fees and finance charges and your $3000 sofa becomes a $6000 weight around your neck.

If you are disciplined you can save that $250 a month for a year and then buy the item.

Life is short. Live it for yourself and not your creditors.

Another tip, if you like the R&B, WS, PB looks- check out neighborhood stores too. I work at a little family store in San Francisco, and we carry some of the same exact suppliers as those other chains, except our prices are waaaaaayyy less. Sometimes even half. So don't be afraid of little stores (with big style).