apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

Great! I have this problem. Anyone know a window cleaner in Brooklyn who does this?

Great idea, BUT -- what exactly constitutes "defogger equipment", and where do we get it???

Fantastic ... your window has failed and now you drill a hole in the glass voiding any waranty you may have. Brilliant.

If you believe this one ... i have a bridge for you.

This doesn't seem to make any sense. Even of you succeed in defogging the window temporarily, moisture will still acculumate and condense in there, and the insulating property of the window will be gone.

Well, when you drill the hole in the window you create an escape for the moisture... what you also do is essentially turn an insulated window into a standard piece of glass...

Though I suppose if you did drill the hole and "remove the moisture" you could seal the hole with a dab of clear silicone caulk.

Now...good luck removing the moisture...ha

WTF are "dislodged air particles"??? This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on apartment therapy.

What's with all the vitriol lately in AT???

Ease up. Take a breathe. Smile.

I owned a cooperative apartment, and nearly all of the windows in the building had this problem.

What I was told by the managing agent, is that the plexiglass in this type of window needs to be changed every 7-10 years. In my building, it was paid for by the coop. The seal slowly degrades, and the only way to fix it is to replace the plexiglass.

If you are a renter, it might be worth changing yourself, depending on how much it annoys you. I can't recall exactly how much it cost, but the place I used was called Philip Glass (not joking) in the Bronx. 1624 White Plains Rd Bronx, NY 10462
(718) 584-3006

After I fixed it, I wished that I had done it years and years before. It was like an entirely new space, and worth every penny.

Maybe you could remove the moisture by putting a little silica gel into the window? It's sometimes used by museums to control the RH in sealed artworks when they're sent out on loan.

They drill a hole in the window, and cover it with a valve. That way the window retains SOME of it's r-value, but not what it once was. Of course the only reason moisture got in there in the first place was through some crack in the seal, so a valve wouldn't be that bad. Even though it's not as effective as replacing your windows it is quite a bit cheaper.

Sometimes sealed windows are already filled with silica gel to compensate for this moisture already. But once they are all filled up, your window fogs up again.

Anyone know how they wash the inside of your window through the hole that they drill??

I'm not a hater, but Julie's right, the "dislodged air particles" explanation doesn't make any sense.

Does anyone know of a good place to buy new windows (the guillotine type) in Manhattan? Is it hard to install them yourself (and not have the landlord notice)?

Hi there,

It's Luke Jones here again, to explain my above posting!! Oh, I now have a website :)

Ok, some of you think I am lying, and some of you want to know where you can get this service in the USA.

Well, then check this website ladies and gentlemen - they can do the job for you:
http://www.ccwwi.com/Technology.html

Thanks,
Have a good day
Luke Jones
www.lukejones.eu.tf | UK 07921480458

Are these things even read over before being posted?!?

the comments are getting crankier because the content on AT is getting crappier

what about the double pane windows with stuff inside them like argon...although if there is moisture in there the seal is broken and the gas prolly leaked out already. the only real fix is new window or reseal the window somehow prolly just buy good windows and they come with a warranty so call the company...i guess drilling a hole would be a great diy fix if the fog was really bothering you and you didnt really care about the insulation factor or the environment but whatever still a poor explanation

luke jones shut up about your website

hm, not sure about this...

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here, but we had the hole-in-window-to-suck-out-moisture thing done on a large bay window in my old home: it cost a small fortune and yielded horrible results. We ended up replacing the entire window after the completely unsatisfactory (not to mention irreversible) procedure, which actually ended up being cheaper than it had cost to have it 'cleaned'. (We didn't get the 'cleaning' refunded...)

They use the hole to blow the tiny dislodged window-washing elves into the foggy part.

Unfortunately, once the elves have cleaned the inside of your insulated window, they die. And you have a hole in your window.

like RalphEMole mentioned, this makes no sense for Argon or other inert gas filled windows to do, at all. They will not be the same. You are better off checking your warranty.

Intrigued by the wacko illogic of "dislodged air particles" (anyone ever hear of "attached air particles"?), I checked Luke's website, and things got even funnier! There we read: "Using proprietary, precision tools, our technicians effectively re-engineer a window, introducing breathing holes so the unit can expel moisture on its own." In other words, a"proprietary, precision tool" equals a "drill." In even more other words, Luke's "technicians" drill holes in your window that allow moisture out--and IN, and your once vacuum-sealed windows are now the functional equivalent of an old-fashioned window plus old-fashioned storm window. Except you can't wash between the panes. Priceless. AT could have avoided all the flak by posting this on April 1st.

In 2006, when this post first appeared, I posted a solution to this problem. The solution came from four different building superintendents who have decades of experience with the kind of replacement windows that are common in New York apartment buildings.

The seals along the edges of the window degrade over the years. You don't need to replace the window, as numerous comments above seem to suggest. You need to remove the window portion from the frame, and have the glass and seal replaced. It takes a couple of hours, and costs about $60 per window, depending on the size of the window. In many cases, the window repair people will come to the apartment, remove the unit, and return it later that day.

If you live in a cooperative building, the building should reimburse (and they may have a particular window vendor). If you live in a rental, you may want to get permission from your landlord, and pay for it yourself or ask for reimbursement. The results are dramatic and the trouble is minimal (though you must pick a day with good weather in order to allow a few hours for the repair).

I agree (though in a more polite tone) with those who are noting that drilling a hole in the window is probably a flawed approach. It harms the window and doesn't solve the problem iin the long term.

I would argue that a website devoted to New York apartments (as this one originally was) would perhaps benefit from having a building superintendent as a consulting expert. These superintendents have attended numerous courses for topics ranging from windows to boilers to radiators, and could address many of the topics raised here. They also know the nitty gritty details about the kinds of things that co-op boards do and don't pay for, since they attend board meetings as part of their work.

Thanks everyone. This is a spirited example of speaking your mind and being not afraid of the "very sensitive" folks who don't want to read negative entries. BTW, I'm with you Julie!

Living in a 200yr old home, I am always amazed at the jump to remove historically accurate windows in preference for double or triple paned "energy efficient" models. Usually this is done with no thought to the LACK OF INSULATION anywhere else in the property. Even the best insulated window will eventually lose its vacuum. I'm a fan of caulk, weatherstripping and insulated curtains. The window warranty is also a good question. Many of these companies offer "lifetime" warranties that should be looked into before messing with the window.

bronxmaria,

wow, thank you for a comprehensive and realistic response to this post. can you recommend anyone who does this in ny/brooklyn?

thebear,

Bronxmaria is only partially correct, most high end windows are made so that the panes can be replaced and reglazed if they fog. Cheap vinyl windows for the most part must be replaced, rather than repaired.
You can search for glass and glazers in brooklyn, here is one:
Cestare Glass & Mirror Co
2206 Avenue X
Brooklyn, NY 11235
(718) 332-8853‎
(718) 252-0181‎

thebear,

I had the glass in my simple aluminum windows replaced this past summer. I used All City Glass (718) 444-7400. It costs $80 per pane of glass and $50 per pair of balances (each set of balances holds up one pane of glass). A lot of my windows only needed one pane fixed. They came to measure the windows then come back in about a week to install. A new window would cost $300.

And as Maria mentioned, totally worth every penny.

Good luck

Luke,
Thanks for posting the link. I checked it out to see more about it and a very reputable glass company in our area offer this service.

The fact that he refers to the "RV value" is somewhat telling. Maybe the window could be used on one's recreational vehicle once the R-Value has been destroyed by the drilling.

I just had my windows professionally cleaned today and my window man noted that there is moisture trapped in a couple of the panes of glass in my french doors. He does not have the equipment as mentioned above nor has he ever heard of it.

Maybe this drilling works. Maybe it doesn't. I know in my case these doors are old old old and the glass is just as old. Like methusala old. I am now setting aside $50 from each pay period to save up for a new energy efficient set and installation.

In the meantime I am living with the foggy windows and taking advantge of the wrinkle diffusing effect the fogging has on my complexion.

This post is completely devalued by the statement: "...air particles inside get dislodged and as no window is 100% sealed, a small amount of moisture gets in each day...". No window completely sealed? My word. That is how double-pane windows work -- by creating a sealed pocket of air or gas. I've replaced all of the windows in my home, at great expense and over several years, with double-paned, insulated windows. Some of them are argon filled. I've had multiple seal failures on some windows that were put in early (I changed manufacturers for the rest of the windows). The failures (i.e., moisture getting between the panes) were always due to seal breaks on the outside of the window. So if someone is coming to your apartment in the sky and treating your leaky glass from the inside and plugging it up from the inside... you will continue to have seal problems. You can drill a weep hole into the glass and eliminate the fogging that the moisture causes, but you won't completely remove the moisture, or clean the inside of the glass. And you will, as someone pointed out already, be left with a single-pane window.

Seaside, you are funny!

Per Bronxmaria's post, I should point out that when I say I had the windows replaced, I do mean the entire windows. When I've had pane seal failures, the (formerly) sealed panes have been removed and replaced with new, sealed glass panes. I've had to fight to have my warranty honored, but I've been successful so far. But the cost would have been around 500 in labor for very large units. I don't know about the cost of the glass itself.

Temperature changes are what cause seal failures. The glass distorts and breaks the seal. I've had no failures at all with the argon-filled panes.