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of course everyone wants to know... will ursula be joining for her first ever walk this year??

I have been waiting for date to be posted!
I can't wait.

I wish I could join you guys (at least, for as long as my feet would last) ... but I have to go out of town Sunday to visit a college friend whose mom died this week. I'll be thinking of all you brave and hardy folks!

What time do you usually finish, about?

red line -- the horror, the horror!

Call it the IRT, call it the Broadway/7th Ave Local, or simply call it the 1 -- but never never refer to it by color -- that's for little cities like Boston or Washington. (shuddering here . . .)

count me in! It was a great walk last year, interesting people and a heck of a day. I think we were done in 7 hours, including stopping for lunch. Join us!

Ursula will join for as much as possible! Five weeks old and already a great walker!

If the weather is good I'll be there at the Christopher St station.

No love for the Boogie down on this walk? I will be walking from 225th street up broadway to where Yonkers starts on the same day.

Gah! I'm out of town that weekend -- and I've been waiting for the date to be posted for weeks!

i might be able to make it. i have family in town this weekend, but they fly out sunday and won't need any help from me in dealing with all that. if they leave sunday morning, i'm definitely in.

Ooh, goodie! I missed last year's walk, so count me in for this one.

You guys are so cool. I'll go.

Oh Noooooo. I have 2 midterm nextweek and I will be in the library thw whole weekend and will miss it :-(((

or should I start praying for the rain so I could join the next one??

Selfish Muhtar :-)

Will there DEFINITELY be a Christopher Street Station contingent? If so, I'd like to join that group, but want to be sure there WILL be people there to meet, :) Thanks.

I enjoyed it last year but I methinx it's not in the cards for this year, because I'll be out of town.

Well, I can't go on the big walk, but I may have to come out and cheer you on. I live near 207th and B'way, and it's pretty exciting for me just knowing you guys will be in my neck of the woods. No one hardly ever comes up this far.

I hope the decent weather holds!

Wish I could be there! However, you have inspired a group of us to do a walk in Minneapolis. We are planning on walking Hennepin Ave. We would go thru Northeast Mpls, over the Hennepin Ave Bridge, past the Federal Reserve Bank and our great, new Central Library, thru the Theatre District, past the Sculpture Garden and Walker Art Center, thru Uptown to the cemetery. It's about a totla of 7 miles. Due to the fact winter is fast approaching we are planning a springtime walk. We will keep you posted!

There's any 80% chance of rain on Sunday :(

http://www.wunderground.com/US/NY/New_York.html

I think this post needs to be updated!

Who's doing the walk this weekend?

I second Frank's comment. NEVER the "Red Line" -- 7th Avenue IRT is preferred, otherwise just say "the 1."

Moreover, in New York, "the Island" refers only to Long Island. And that's a really lot of walking -- total decor makeover would be faster.

Frank, only people over 65 call it the IRT, and even then, only stoggy ones. Call it the Red Line, get over it.

Massimo Vignelli did a great job.

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More to the point, however, what is the pupose of this walk?

Does this have anything to do with today, Friday, being AIDS day?

If so, might this have anything to do with the choice of the "Red Line"?

Lori2, if it's not raining, I'll be at the Christopher Street station at 8:00AM, wearing my handknit green sweater coat - I just finished it and want to show it off, :)

chris -- Get your acts straight: Massimo Vignelli designed the 70's map in which each individual line had it's own color. That was replaced in 1979 by the current map with the trunk lines designed in single colors (red for 7th Av./Bway, blue for 8th ave etc etc.)

Plenty of NYer's under 65 call it the IRT.

Officially, it is the 1 Train. The MTA never uses colors in naming trains.

I'll get off my pulpit now . . .

oops -- 'get your facts straight' . . .

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Frank,

The Interborough Rapid Transit Company ceased to exist in 1940.

Massimo Vignelli is indeed responsible for the current color coded system. It is included in the Vignelli online portfolio, and the MTA continues to be their client to this day. But if you beg to differ, maybe you should write to them and set them straight. They first developed the subway signage for the city of New York in 1966, this is also when IRT was officially dropped from the signage. The color coded system developed in the 60s was indeed revised in '79, when red was adopted for 1, 2 & 3. So shame on the whipper-snappers for using this new-fangled, mere 27 year old system.

The color coded system works well, and if not meant for indentifying the trains, then what on earth would be its purpose?

Massimo Vignelli wrote:
> I like design to be
> semantically correct,
> syntactically consistent, and
> pragmatically understable.

To identify the train whose track is shown is RED on the maps, and whose signage is all labelled in RED at the stations is simply 'understandable'... 'pragmatically' speaking.

It's good information design.

To call the train by its former name from 66 years past out of habit is charming. Nostalgia is fine, call it the IRT all you want, but to do so because you're oh-so 'in the know' is, well whatever... but chastising Maxwell (or anyone else) for using that new-fangled color coded system is just... silly.

As per my post, I assumed chosing the RED LINE had something to do with the fact that today is World AIDS day:

http://www.joinred.com

Nobody has confirmed this.


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chris -- I erred -- mea culpa (or is that too old an expression?) about Vignelli -- he did indeed design current map, I was referring to map designed by George Salomon.

Still, it ain't the red line, it's the 1 train. And I wasn't chastising Maxwell -- I think he knows me well enough by now to understand a little teasing.

AND, if you had read the posting re the walk, it is an annual event that has nothing to do with AIDS day -- was supposed to occur 3 weeks ago but postponed by rain.

But, the AIDS cause is noble and important -- I'd be happy to wear a red ribbon on the IRT!

um, so anyone else coming?

Phyllis,

I am planning to meet up with the group all the way at the top. Looking forward to seeing your new hand-knit coat! I will be wearing brown.

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I was crediting Vignelli as the creator of the signage and identity system. As such, I would assumed that he designed the map as well (and assigned the colors).

Further research supports your first claim, that Vignelli designed the '72 map, and furthermore that he did not assign red to the 1, 2 & 3 trains.

Michael Hertz Associates designed the '79 up to current map, and some revisions to the corresponding color system but Vignelli's signage system is maintained to this day (Numbers, Letters, Circles, Diamonds, Fonts, Sign Sizes, the assembly method of the signs, etc.).

However, who at Michael Hertz Associates actually designed the map is much debated. Some credit John Tauranac, the Michael Hertz Associates' employee who was head of the map design committee, as being the primary designer of the map. Others (including John Tauranac) say that a young designer named Nobu Siraisi who was employed by the firm and Lead Art Director on the project did the bulk of the designing (mostly known today as a painter and sculptor, in the early 60s Nobu worked as a landscape artist for I.M. Pei Architects... wow, I'd like to meet this guy... I digress). Michael Hertz hotly disputes both claims, adamantly insisting that he designed the map near whole-cloth himself, from his own genius, and choses to share design credit with no one.

Michael Hertz Associates and Vignelli Associates both claim the MTA as existing clients. It appears that Hertz maintains updates to the map, while Vignelli maintains the style guide for the signage system. Eww, the sticky politics of information design.

I also found this article of interest in the New York Sun about the 1967 subway map that first introduced the color scheme picked up by Vignelli in 1972 and and expanded on in the Hertz Associates' map of 1979. The color system was worked up by an Attorney named R. Raleigh D'Adamo.

http://www.nysun.com/article/29328

To be candid, I'd actually thought that James Biber of Pentagram had designed the subway's identity system. I double checked before my original post and found the Vignelli credit. I followed up with a visit to the Vignelli website and felt content to post.


.

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Oh, nice. Check this out:

http://www.kickdesign.com/mapcomparison/index.htm

This is a really nice map. I think, much superior to the Hertz map. Apparently Eddie Jabbour, this new map's designer, has been soliciting the city for some time to adopt his new map to replace the Hertz map.

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More on Eddie Jabbour's map:

http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/project_details.cfm?id=267&index=267&domain=

I like this new map -- see, if you "converse" long enough, you find things you agree on!

Actually, I still like the 70's map -- I think it accomplished basically the same thing. In a way, I found it easier to follow a singular color from point to point without the confusion of the trunk line through Manhattan as all one color. The current map is supposed to give better clarity to the relation of lines to things on the surface -- and it succeeds quite well in that regard. But the 70's map, like London's or many other cities' metro maps, is about clarity underground (where you have no idea what is going on above anyway) -- getting you to a destination -- then you figure out the local surface geography when you get there. Of course, it took until very recently for NYC to get decent neighborhood maps in the subway stations.

If you are ever in the transit museum and see some older maps, some are actually quite similar to Eddie Jabbour's.

Sorry, no self-respecting native New Yorker refers to subway lines by color. It's the 4/5/6, A, N/R, 1, etc. You must be from Boston.

hi guys,
Franz, Stormy and I (Nina) had such a great time even though we didn't get to do the whole thing! Thanks again for organizing this. I'll try to read up on some history for next year, so every 20 blocks of so we can get a "tidbit."
-nina

Thanks Max, Sara Kate and everyone on the tour today! Cyn and I had such a good time walking the city with you and meeting everyone. It was a brillliant way to spend a gorgeous December Sunday. Count us in for next year too!

Well, I confess: I ran out of steam at Zabars, so when the group pressed on for the remainder of the walk, I hopped on the subway at 79th St. But I'm still happy to have completed half the trip, and feel inspired to keep going next year!

The walk was a lot of fun - great to meet everyone, and get that sense of accomplishment!

But... where's Maxwell's pics? I wonder if he did make a slideshow...?